DUST Search - Intelligence is OP

Korvin Lomont wrote:

You know something is wrong when your most effective way to kill a tank is a LAV packed with remotes...while there are AV weapons in this game...

1. I don't argue the range nerf to swarms was ok for me the damage nerf was a bit too much but I guess this could change.

2. The PLC? Even most who use the PLC with great success admit its more an AI weapon than an AV weapon and horribly UP (but fun as hell to use)

3. currently even militia tanks shrugg of Proto Av and thats a bit problematic what will happen once advanced or proto hulls are available? (stupid concept to give proto AV but only std hulls)

4. Area of denial - I would agree that would be a solution but the problem is the AV guy don't get a reward for repelling a tank and currently tanks come back too fast so its either kill or nothing don't blame the AVler for that.

5. Invisible swarms is a bad thing and CCP should have solved this ages ago ;/

6. Teamwork - well shouldn't this be true for both sides? Why do tankers want AV to require Teamwork while wrecking havoc solo? Teamwork worked for tanks in 1.6 a Tank supported by Infantry was quite dangerous but I think its too much to ask for tankers to bring infantry with them, But wait now tankers say we should bring in tanks to stop tanks - This logic is amusing
7. Communication - see 6 apart from that sure

8. Traps see 6 - Why should I have to organise a trap when you can drive around in your tank uncontested - makes no sense

9. Forge you are right we have two (or three if you count the PLC as AV) AV weapons where only one is viable to counter Vehicles, so CCP should simply remove the swarms and refund the SP

10. regarding the nitro bug its the same with the invisible swarms and I don't expect any solution soon I know it's not the tankers fault but it is stupid, screwing balance and I expect this to last on for a while but maybe CCP will surprise me


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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1835	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:56:00 - [1] - Quote A solid post Takahiro. As the author of the Swarm Launcher guide I support your message. Now if only I could get into a match that had some tanks in it so I could properly assess the current state of the Swarm Launcher and determine the best tactics under these new conditions.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1835	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:50:00 - [2] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: You know something is wrong when your most effective way to kill a tank is a LAV packed with remotes...while there are AV weapons in this game... 1. I don't argue the range nerf to swarms was ok for me the damage nerf was a bit too much but I guess this could change. 2. The PLC? Even most who use the PLC with great success admit its more an AI weapon than an AV weapon and horribly UP (but fun as hell to use) 3. currently even militia tanks shrugg of Proto Av and thats a bit problematic what will happen once advanced or proto hulls are available? (stupid concept to give proto AV but only std hulls) 4. Area of denial - I would agree that would be a solution but the problem is the AV guy don't get a reward for repelling a tank and currently tanks come back too fast so its either kill or nothing don't blame the AVler for that. 5. Invisible swarms is a bad thing and CCP should have solved this ages ago ;/ 6. Teamwork - well shouldn't this be true for both sides? Why do tankers want AV to require Teamwork while wrecking havoc solo? Teamwork worked for tanks in 1.6 a Tank supported by Infantry was quite dangerous but I think its too much to ask for tankers to bring infantry with them, But wait now tankers say we should bring in tanks to stop tanks - This logic is amusing 7. Communication - see 6 apart from that sure 8. Traps see 6 - Why should I have to organise a trap when you can drive around in your tank uncontested - makes no sense 9. Forge you are right we have two (or three if you count the PLC as AV) AV weapons where only one is viable to counter Vehicles, so CCP should simply remove the swarms and refund the SP 10. regarding the nitro bug its the same with the invisible swarms and I don't expect any solution soon I know it's not the tankers fault but it is stupid, screwing balance and I expect this to last on for a while but maybe CCP will surprise me Good to see a reasoned response on the AV side of the argument. On point 4, I have been pushing for AV getting WP for damage against vehicles. Maybe 10 wp for 1000 damage to a single vehicle. I get the sense that Swarm damage was a bit over nerfed. Maybe it should be at 250 per missel rather than 220, which would still be a big drop from the 330 we had, but I wonGÇÖt really be able to say for sure until I am able to do a lot more testing.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1836	Posted - 2013.12.12 17:16:00 - [3] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: A solid post Takahiro. As the author of the Swarm Launcher guide I support your message. Now if only I could get into a match that had some tanks in it so I could properly assess the current state of the Swarm Launcher and determine the best tactics under these new conditions. Seen your work and your in for a treat when you do so . How can you call the post solid and you haven't even experienced what everyone is talking about ???? These are your OWN words . I cant wait and see what your results will be and I will keep an eye out for that . I have been reading the changes and thinking about how tanks work and how to counter them. I call his post solid, because it aligned with my understanding of the deeper mechanics, and gave me some insights that I will be happy to use against him if I should encounter him on the battlefield. Due to scheduling I only managed to play 2 matches on Wednesday and 2 matches today since the patch. I blew up 3 tanks with my Swarm Launcher on Wednesday, but I think they were new tankers in Militia tanks. I had no tanks in my 2 matches this morning unfortunately. I need to see how the Proto Swarm Launcher stacks against a good tanker, then test the Advanced, to get a feel for the current state of the Swarm Launcher. I need to get a feel for what the active modules look like when a tank is using them and how long they last. Then figure out reliable tactics for tricking Tankers into using their actives early, and then catching them with their pants down. Now, if I canGÇÖt at least put the fear of God into a Tanker with his actives on cooldown, then I will come back and ask for a slight damage buff for the Swarm Launcher. A standard tank should not be able to ignore a Proto Swarm Launcher when its actives are on cooldown. I am also going to be trying to put together 3 person AV squads and test some group tactics.