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Ahrendee Public Relations
Ahrendee PR
25
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Posted - 2013.12.07 16:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Recently Ahrendee Mercenaries has been taking over select districts on planet Oddelulf (commonly referred to as Planet Fight Club) in violation of the rules set forth for PFC. Today we explain to the community why we're doing it.
RND was originally very much in favor of a planet where corporations that were newer and inexperienced could practice against other corporations of similar skill level and experience. And in the beginning, the manifestation seemed to follow the vision closely.
In recent weeks and months, however, corporations that are neither new, nor inexperienced, have been holding districts on PFC as a way to generate ISK without any fear of losing the district itself. UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
As a corporation they (and other veteran corporations on PFC) have done more to damage the integrity and reputation of Planet Fight Club by farming ISK and making a mockery of the battles than we could ever do merely by taking over their district. The first battle with UPS simply reinforced our belief that without any fear of losing districts, corporations on PFC are not getting legitimate Planetary Conquest training nor are they treating the battles with anything approaching respect. This is the highest competitive level in Dust and with nothing at risk, there's little reason to put in any true effort.
If the threat of losing a district is removed, battles are not going to be up to the standard of normal PC and ultimately do more harm than good to corporations training there.
To veteran corporations on PFC: You are no longer safe. |
DJINN Rampage
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
906
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 17:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
cool story bro
GÿúLevel 1 Forum WarriorGÖô
GÿáTemplar of the Exiled.GäóGÖå
Gÿå GÖí.GÖí Gÿ» Gÿ« ... Who Gives A Flux
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General John Ripper
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
5738
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 17:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
I like tacos more than Cat Merc likes tuna.
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Norbit1996
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
7
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Posted - 2013.12.07 17:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
DJINN Rampage wrote:cool story bro
I thoroughly enjoyed that story aswell! :D |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
367
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries.
why does an established corp have a PFC district. Whats wrong with using one of your 23 districts to practice with? |
SoLJae
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
500
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hooray!
There is finally someone willing to light the match and thin that welfare program out. I hope some of the larger corps back you guys up on this, if you face any type of retaliation that is.
Good luck to ya!
+1 |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2159
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's true...some of the corps on PFC has been on there for how long now? Noone plays with the urgency and the heart because there is no risk of losing their district. You see guys in pc battles with advanced and std gear...or staying back trying not to lose any suits. I remember corps bringing 6 guys to the pc battle.. I mean, what sort of training is that?
If corps want to train, then they need to venture out of pc. The only problem is that who are you going to attack? Only attainable districts belong to corps that new corps won't be able to beat and they have so many. Best thing would be if corps attack corps on their relative level. I believe in the Tier system that was being constructed before.
But at the same time, how can you ask a corp to give up their districts if they don't want to. Or, ask fhem not to attack a certain corp if they want to. So, even in a system where the likes of Nyain San shouldn't attack a corp like dystopia...how can you ask them not to...and where does it stop? AE is better than everyone in MH, right? So, should they not launch attacks because they're going to roflstomp everyone? How can you ask them not to? It's really up to every corp to decide what they should do AND to consider if it benefits the longevity of Planetary Conquest.
I don't have the solution but I do know that PFC is not doing anything but giving guys extremely friendly battles and are not gearing them for the real experience of pc. Many of them have no intent of venturing out of PFC either.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
871
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Posted - 2013.12.07 18:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
xAckie wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries. why does an established corp have a PFC district. Whats wrong with using one of your 23 districts to practice with?
That's sort of my position on the subject. At first I was thinking maybe Academy or Training sections of larger, more successful corps would be okay for training purposes, but the problem is the main corporations guilty of the farming mentioned above will just make an Academy version and do the exact same thing as before.
Training your guys is commendable but why do you need to be on PFC to do it? You can launch from one of your main districts and just bring in the players you want to train.
That being said, the call isn't mine to make.
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
RNDclan.com
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General John Ripper
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
5739
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
xAckie wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries. why does an established corp have a PFC district. Whats wrong with using one of your 23 districts to practice with?
Nothing is wrong with it. I actually do want older corps to move out of pfc. However it should be up to us to decide who to pass the torch to. We have already discussed this in our private chats and I am not at liberty yet to reveal any information as we have not come to a decision just yet. Until we decide what the future of our pfc district is going to be... Please do not attempt to flip our district. We would like to try and handle this ourselves.
I like tacos more than Cat Merc likes tuna.
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Ser Tarlon
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
66
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Posted - 2013.12.07 18:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
1. Corps who are smaller or not as experienced as us can attack us to see how those things are going, they'll get a challenge and if they ask, we will play to a certain dergree how they asked us to play. So that's good training on their side.
2. UPS too does have new members who need training and we often put them into PFC matches. Not against the big and known corps, we want to beat them, but against the unknown once.
So, your arguments have truth in them, but they are a little bit onesided
Black, Red - Strength, Dead
Love bounties on my head
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2159
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
xAckie wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries. why does an established corp have a PFC district. Whats wrong with using one of your 23 districts to practice with?
I have much respect for Pradox and Mike Ruan....utmost respect. But I have to agree with Ackie, any established corp should run the risk of losing their district on PFC. I'm not suggesting that a corp gives up their Oddeldulf district if they don't want to....but it should be at risk because that corp could use one of their own districts to launch attacks and train new recruits. Especially one that's in an alliance because they can train vs each other.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2168
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ser Tarlon wrote:1. Corps who are smaller or not as experienced as us can attack us to see how those things are going, they'll get a challenge and if they ask, we will play to a certain dergree how they asked us to play. So that's good training on their side.
2. UPS too does have new members who need training and we often put them into PFC matches. Not against the big and known corps, we want to beat them, but against the unknown once.
So, your arguments have truth in them, but they are a little bit onesided
Corps who are smaller can launch attacks anywhere in MH. They should pick and choose who they want to attack and go for it.
If they are looking to attack vet corps, then they have a lot of choices out there besides PFC. Oddeldulf should really be an entry point into PC. New corps should be able to enter pc by beating any of the new corps on Oddeldulf. Because there is noone else that they can beat. An indie planet is the best way to allow corps to enter pc and allow it to thrive. Not this pfc business where there is no risk and vet corps are there.
Let Oddeldulf be high sec and the vet corps in dust be Concord. Let the new corps police themselves. It's the only way.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
2351
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Regulating and policing oddeluf is a major time commitment. Get a grip on it and evict the squatter, and next thing get ridiculed for being a 'bully'
Keep it simple. Make simple rules even illiterate rhesus monkeys with glaucoma in 1 eye can understand.
Then enforce it.
passive policing is what allowed PFC to get where it currently is
Common Sense and Logic are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
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General John Ripper
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
5739
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:xAckie wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries. why does an established corp have a PFC district. Whats wrong with using one of your 23 districts to practice with? I have much respect for Pradox and Mike Ruan....utmost respect. But I have to agree with Ackie, any established corp should run the risk of losing their district on PFC. I'm not suggesting that a corp gives up their Oddeldulf district if they don't want to....but it should be at risk because that corp could use one of their own districts to launch attacks and train new recruits. Especially one that's in an alliance because they can train vs each other.
Thank you, for that. I do agree with you on several points. However all I ask is that you trust our judgement for now until we figure out what to do with it. We already have some idea on what we are going to do with it but the final negotiations have not been made yet. Pradox is a huge supporter of pfc and pfc has helped us out immensely. We still have pfc battles pretty much everyday and we will continue to have pfc battles even if we lose our pfc district.
Pradox has helped several other corps get pfc districts in the past and we will want to continue to do what we can to help friends of pradox that we see with potential.
I like tacos more than Cat Merc likes tuna.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2168
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
SoLJae wrote:Hooray! There is finally someone willing to light the match and thin that welfare program out. I hope some of the larger corps back you guys up on this, if you face any type of retaliation that is. Good luck to ya! +1 AE or whoever else is policing PFC should get on board and let the small corps battle each other with risk of losing their district. Vet corps should stay out of PFC....
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2168
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:xAckie wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries. why does an established corp have a PFC district. Whats wrong with using one of your 23 districts to practice with? I have much respect for Pradox and Mike Ruan....utmost respect. But I have to agree with Ackie, any established corp should run the risk of losing their district on PFC. I'm not suggesting that a corp gives up their Oddeldulf district if they don't want to....but it should be at risk because that corp could use one of their own districts to launch attacks and train new recruits. Especially one that's in an alliance because they can train vs each other. Thank you, for that. I do agree with you on several points. However all I ask is that you trust our judgement for now until we figure out what to do with it. We already have some idea on what we are going to do with it but the final negotiations have not been made yet. Pradox is a huge supporter of pfc and pfc has helped us out immensely. We still have pfc battles pretty much everyday and we will continue to have pfc battles even if we lose our pfc district. Pradox has helped several other corps get pfc districts in the past and we will want to continue to do what we can to help friends of pradox that we see with potential.
we're really not on a mission to eradicate everyone off of PFC. We don't feel as if we're this powerful corp capable of doing so (and we aren't, quite frankly)...that has never been our position.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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General John Ripper
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
5739
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:SoLJae wrote:Hooray! There is finally someone willing to light the match and thin that welfare program out. I hope some of the larger corps back you guys up on this, if you face any type of retaliation that is. Good luck to ya! +1 AE or whoever else is policing PFC should get on board and let the small corps battle each other with risk of losing their district. Vet corps should stay out of PFC....
I disagree with this. I was once told. "pfc? noobs vs noobs? pffft how are they supposed to get any better? "
Fact is, people do not like to lose. Alot of corps havea habit of only fighting weaker or same level opponents. This will not improve their gungame. While I believe that smaller newer corps should have a pfc district to train their guys, I also believe that they should not get a false perception of pc by having it on easy mode. There needs to be incentive for stronger corps to attack pfc districts without flipping them. Also smaller corps might fear attacking larger corps because they are afraid of causing a war that they cannot handle.
One solution is to have a couple of select corps there to actively attack everyone on pfc or be available to be attacked without fear by the smaller corporations. Pradox may still continue to fight pfc after we lose our pfc district but we wont be fielding an A team. We will be there to train our newer guys.
I like tacos more than Cat Merc likes tuna.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2168
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:Regulating and policing oddeluf is a major time commitment. Get a grip on it and evict the squatter, and next thing get ridiculed for being a 'bully'
Keep it simple. Make simple rules even illiterate rhesus monkeys with glaucoma in 1 eye can understand.
Then enforce it.
passive policing is what allowed PFC to get where it currently is
I think that the corps abused the original idea of PFC and what you guys were trying to do. It's just like giving guys a flaylock pistol and they just run with it.
Making altbrard an indie planet was the best thing and should be Oddeldulf. It's great idea on all sides because if a new corp wanted entry into PC, they can attack one of the low tiered corps on Oddeldulf and gain entry if they're good enough. Because seriously, who will they attack with a clone pack to enter pc? AE? OH?...they will be smashed and most of the districts in pc belong to one of two alliances.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2168
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:SoLJae wrote:Hooray! There is finally someone willing to light the match and thin that welfare program out. I hope some of the larger corps back you guys up on this, if you face any type of retaliation that is. Good luck to ya! +1 AE or whoever else is policing PFC should get on board and let the small corps battle each other with risk of losing their district. Vet corps should stay out of PFC.... I disagree with this. I was once told. "pfc? noobs vs noobs? pffft how are they supposed to get any better? " Fact is, people do not like to lose. Alot of corps havea habit of only fighting weaker or same level opponents. This will not improve their gungame. While I believe that smaller newer corps should have a pfc district to train their guys, I also believe that they should not get a false perception of pc by having it on easy mode. There needs to be incentive for stronger corps to attack pfc districts without flipping them. Also smaller corps might fear attacking larger corps because they are afraid of causing a war that they cannot handle. One solution is to have a couple of select corps there to actively attack everyone on pfc or be available to be attacked without fear by the smaller corporations. Pradox may still continue to fight pfc after we lose our pfc district but we wont be fielding an A team. We will be there to train our newer guys.
If the said corp wants to get better, then they can launch an attack from Oddeldulf to some of the more established corps. Issue is, there needs to be risk of losing a district. That is the big deal.
If a corp doesn't want to get better then they can keep playing corps that aren't better than they are but will never amount to much outside of Oddeldulf.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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DaddyKillsEmAll
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
142
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ahrendee Public Relations wrote: UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
As a corporation they (and other veteran corporations on PFC) have done more to damage the integrity and reputation of Planet Fight Club by farming ISK
lol if u think we are farming ISK...we have enough ;)
UPS used this PFC district how it should been used. We had battles every week against new corps and also against vet corps.
We always followed the rules.
And we allways tried to play only with UPS members. Because we want to make sure, all of our members have the chance to play in a PC.
There are a lot of other corps which are not using the PFC district correctly....
Have fun with the district...
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Rich o
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
136
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Posted - 2013.12.07 18:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Oddelulf has 24 districts, on at least 12 of them i can see vet corps. Go ahead, whipe them all off. Should be no problem as many of them have at least 1 district outside of PFC. Show us that you are consistent.
2nd place in EU squad cup
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Jade Tech
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
43
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Posted - 2013.12.07 18:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree with this entirely. PFC has gone to hell when it comes to respect. Most corporations there, like you say, barely serve the purpose of training in PC battles. The lack of command and commitment has made most of the smaller corporations go against the rules and just keep the district to themselves. While the bigger corporations may claim to use it as their "recruit training," and sometimes this is most likely true, they should not have to own a district in PFC to train them. Like thunderdome, get in contact with ally or enemy corporations they see fit as good competitors on their level of experience and ask them to do a practice PC battle with each other. It's that simple.
I don't see how PFC is getting moderated well. AE has took command in TP's absence, and they are doing a fine job with keeping it under control, but they should be able to sniff out the sneaks who are slipping by and ignoring PFC's rules. I can't totally say they aren't doing this, but just as it is, I hope they can enforce the book as well as they play in PC.
Go ahead and announce that you'll attack bigger corporations and smaller corporations farming money in PFC. I'm fine with that. And I agree that there is no place for higher end corporations due to the ability they have with their other district to set up practice battles with any other corporation in MH. PFC should be a place for starter corps, fielding a good 16-20 active players, who need to practice PC before they can take on any big names outside of the PFC planet. That is how it should be.
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Knight Soiaire
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
3577
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Posted - 2013.12.07 18:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries.
I cant be there.
04:00 EVE Time is too early for me.
Buff Shotguns
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General John Ripper
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
5740
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 19:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:SoLJae wrote:Hooray! There is finally someone willing to light the match and thin that welfare program out. I hope some of the larger corps back you guys up on this, if you face any type of retaliation that is. Good luck to ya! +1 AE or whoever else is policing PFC should get on board and let the small corps battle each other with risk of losing their district. Vet corps should stay out of PFC.... I disagree with this. I was once told. "pfc? noobs vs noobs? pffft how are they supposed to get any better? " Fact is, people do not like to lose. Alot of corps havea habit of only fighting weaker or same level opponents. This will not improve their gungame. While I believe that smaller newer corps should have a pfc district to train their guys, I also believe that they should not get a false perception of pc by having it on easy mode. There needs to be incentive for stronger corps to attack pfc districts without flipping them. Also smaller corps might fear attacking larger corps because they are afraid of causing a war that they cannot handle. One solution is to have a couple of select corps there to actively attack everyone on pfc or be available to be attacked without fear by the smaller corporations. Pradox may still continue to fight pfc after we lose our pfc district but we wont be fielding an A team. We will be there to train our newer guys. If the said corp wants to get better, then they can launch an attack from Oddeldulf to some of the more established corps. Issue is, there needs to be risk of losing a district. That is the big deal. If a corp doesn't want to get better then they can keep playing corps that aren't better than they are but will never amount to much outside of Oddeldulf.
one of the good things about pfc is that the districts generate clones, I have known smaller indie corps that have gone bankrupt trying to get into pc.
I like tacos more than Cat Merc likes tuna.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2171
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Posted - 2013.12.07 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ahrendee Public Relations wrote: UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
As a corporation they (and other veteran corporations on PFC) have done more to damage the integrity and reputation of Planet Fight Club by farming ISK lol if u think we are farming ISK...we have enough ;) UPS used this PFC district how it should been used. We had battles every week against new corps and also against vet corps. We always followed the rules. And we allways tried to play only with UPS members. Because we want to make sure, all of our members have the chance to play in a PC. There are a lot of other corps which are not using the PFC district correctly.... Have fun with the district...
The thing is UPS has been around since the start of pc. From all of the ROFL wars, it's hard to believe UPS needs more training. We all have new players. I have 2 guys that I throw in our matches with under 4M sp. Do they get smoked? Absolutely ...but they get that real pc experience.
I'm not saying you guys are isk farming...maybe you're just worried about attacking one of the major landowners. I get that but pfc shouldnt be a permanent home to corps like yours without the risk of loss.
And we dont have plans to keep the district, btw.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Soulja Ghostface
MCDUSTDONALDS
Zero-Day
1889
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 19:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
about attacking big corps that are farming im suprised no one mentioned helstorm inc.
ive seen them have maximum clones on that district for weeks at a time. no joke
CEO Of MCDUSTDONALDS
Corp Website: www.mcdustdonaldsdust514.webs.com
ALL HAIL THE BALACS AR
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Eugene Killmore
Red Star.
EoN.
192
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Posted - 2013.12.07 19:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Burn pfc to the ground dubs! it like the rest of molden heath is a big farm fest. How many months does a corp need to train for pc? 2 years? I mean the games almost dead the way i see it is if you are not ready to compete by now you will probably never be. Props to RND the last legit non blue donut corp left in the game <3
Happy holidays. |
DaddyKillsEmAll
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
143
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Posted - 2013.12.07 19:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ahrendee Public Relations wrote: UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
As a corporation they (and other veteran corporations on PFC) have done more to damage the integrity and reputation of Planet Fight Club by farming ISK lol if u think we are farming ISK...we have enough ;) UPS used this PFC district how it should been used. We had battles every week against new corps and also against vet corps. We always followed the rules. And we allways tried to play only with UPS members. Because we want to make sure, all of our members have the chance to play in a PC. There are a lot of other corps which are not using the PFC district correctly.... Have fun with the district... The thing is UPS has been around since the start of pc. From all of the ROFL wars, it's hard to believe UPS needs more training. We all have new players. I have 2 guys that I throw in our matches with under 4M sp. Do they get smoked? Absolutely ...but they get that real pc experience. I'm not saying you guys are isk farming...maybe you're just worried about attacking one of the major landowners. I get that but pfc shouldnt be a permanent home to corps like yours without the risk of loss. And we dont have plans to keep the district, btw.
And we are the only corp on Oddeluf which are in PC since the starting?
Come on, thats bs...;)
We have lost a lot of players to lag and other bs in Dust and we recruit a lot of new ones...thats the reason why we had this district...
I dont know if u are telling us the truth about the reason, but thats ok.
We will find an other solution to train our members...
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2172
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Posted - 2013.12.07 20:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:SoLJae wrote:Hooray! There is finally someone willing to light the match and thin that welfare program out. I hope some of the larger corps back you guys up on this, if you face any type of retaliation that is. Good luck to ya! +1 AE or whoever else is policing PFC should get on board and let the small corps battle each other with risk of losing their district. Vet corps should stay out of PFC.... I disagree with this. I was once told. "pfc? noobs vs noobs? pffft how are they supposed to get any better? " Fact is, people do not like to lose. Alot of corps havea habit of only fighting weaker or same level opponents. This will not improve their gungame. While I believe that smaller newer corps should have a pfc district to train their guys, I also believe that they should not get a false perception of pc by having it on easy mode. There needs to be incentive for stronger corps to attack pfc districts without flipping them. Also smaller corps might fear attacking larger corps because they are afraid of causing a war that they cannot handle. One solution is to have a couple of select corps there to actively attack everyone on pfc or be available to be attacked without fear by the smaller corporations. Pradox may still continue to fight pfc after we lose our pfc district but we wont be fielding an A team. We will be there to train our newer guys. If the said corp wants to get better, then they can launch an attack from Oddeldulf to some of the more established corps. Issue is, there needs to be risk of losing a district. That is the big deal. If a corp doesn't want to get better then they can keep playing corps that aren't better than they are but will never amount to much outside of Oddeldulf. one of the good things about pfc is that the districts generate clones, I have known smaller indie corps that have gone bankrupt trying to get into pc.
Right....but this is how you fix it. Make Oddeldulf the entry into pc. Make it the indie planet, so to speak. So small or low tiered corps can farm if they want but their districts will be at risk from new corps entering in.
So, if a corp is good enough to beat one of the weaker corps on Oddeldulf, then they launch a few clone packs and now they are in. They have the option to take more districts on Oddeldulf if they can. They get their training up....and then they try their luck outside of Oddeldulf if they want to grow.
Corps that have been kicked out of PC should have the option to reenter pc through Oddeldulf as well, especially if they are rebuilding. But they still run the risk of being attacked since they are considered vet corps. The problem is no risk of losing districts...
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2172
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 20:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ahrendee Public Relations wrote: UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
As a corporation they (and other veteran corporations on PFC) have done more to damage the integrity and reputation of Planet Fight Club by farming ISK lol if u think we are farming ISK...we have enough ;) UPS used this PFC district how it should been used. We had battles every week against new corps and also against vet corps. We always followed the rules. And we allways tried to play only with UPS members. Because we want to make sure, all of our members have the chance to play in a PC. There are a lot of other corps which are not using the PFC district correctly.... Have fun with the district... The thing is UPS has been around since the start of pc. From all of the ROFL wars, it's hard to believe UPS needs more training. We all have new players. I have 2 guys that I throw in our matches with under 4M sp. Do they get smoked? Absolutely ...but they get that real pc experience. I'm not saying you guys are isk farming...maybe you're just worried about attacking one of the major landowners. I get that but pfc shouldnt be a permanent home to corps like yours without the risk of loss. And we dont have plans to keep the district, btw. And we are the only corp on Oddeluf which are in PC since the starting? Come on, thats bs...;) We have lost a lot of players to lag and other bs in Dust and we recruit a lot of new ones...thats the reason why we had this district... I dont know if u are telling us the truth about the reason, but thats ok. We will find an other solution to train our members...
No, you aren't the only corp on there. Noone said you are....no vet corp belongs there, not even us. You aren't the only corp that we attacked on PFC and probably won't be the last.
To be frank as well, we won't attack corps that we have relations with. I am just hoping that they would take their own initiative to back out of Oddeldulf or if someone else attacks them and gets them off of it.
Use FW to train your members. Get them in a squad and train them. All pc is...having an FC call the shots and tell people where to go and what to do.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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DJINN Rampage
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
906
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Posted - 2013.12.07 20:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
i find it to be LOL that RND is judging other corps farming isk on PFC since you guys were on there for weeks after we asked you repeatedly to bounce, im glad you guys are taking the initiative in policing PFC though and im sure kujo would back me in saying we'd be glad to pass the torch of being the police to you.
GÿúLevel 1 Forum WarriorGÖô
GÿáTemplar of the Exiled.GäóGÖå
Gÿå GÖí.GÖí Gÿ» Gÿ« ... Who Gives A Flux
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DaddyKillsEmAll
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
143
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Posted - 2013.12.07 20:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ahrendee Public Relations wrote: UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
As a corporation they (and other veteran corporations on PFC) have done more to damage the integrity and reputation of Planet Fight Club by farming ISK lol if u think we are farming ISK...we have enough ;) UPS used this PFC district how it should been used. We had battles every week against new corps and also against vet corps. We always followed the rules. And we allways tried to play only with UPS members. Because we want to make sure, all of our members have the chance to play in a PC. There are a lot of other corps which are not using the PFC district correctly.... Have fun with the district... The thing is UPS has been around since the start of pc. From all of the ROFL wars, it's hard to believe UPS needs more training. We all have new players. I have 2 guys that I throw in our matches with under 4M sp. Do they get smoked? Absolutely ...but they get that real pc experience. I'm not saying you guys are isk farming...maybe you're just worried about attacking one of the major landowners. I get that but pfc shouldnt be a permanent home to corps like yours without the risk of loss. And we dont have plans to keep the district, btw. And we are the only corp on Oddeluf which are in PC since the starting? Come on, thats bs...;) We have lost a lot of players to lag and other bs in Dust and we recruit a lot of new ones...thats the reason why we had this district... I dont know if u are telling us the truth about the reason, but thats ok. We will find an other solution to train our members... To be frank as well, we won't attack corps that we have relations with.
hahahaha^^
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2173
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Posted - 2013.12.07 20:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
To be frank as well, we won't attack corps that we have relations with.
hahahaha^^
Not sure why that's funny or would surprise you. We aren't taking the moral ground of policing Oddeldulf. We just choose not to obey those rules and are giving you the reasons why.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2173
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Posted - 2013.12.07 20:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
DJINN Rampage wrote:i find it to be LOL that RND is judging other corps farming isk on PFC since you guys were on there for weeks after we asked you repeatedly to bounce, im glad you guys are taking the initiative in policing PFC though and im sure kujo would back me in saying we'd be glad to pass the torch of being the police to you.
We weren't on there for weeks. We just started trying to rebuild. We had two districts on PFC, we weren't planning on staying there permanently. We were using them to rebuild and I told Soul that. After I met with Soul, a few days later, I moved all the clones off of one of the districts and launched an attack with it. I left the district unoccupied. '
We had plans for the other PFC district.....and I told Rust 415's leader, that we will be giving it back to them in a few days. But AE launched an attack on it before we could use it for what we were going to do with it.
Either way, we are not on PFC expecting the district to not be at risk nor do we plan on staying there. I believe the planet should be an entry for new corps or a way for low tiered corps to expand. My biggest issue is that there should be no vets permanently there and the districts should all be at risk for those who own them.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Bloodthirsty Heathen
Talledos Inc
6
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
Do I have to repeat myself? Yes, PFC is doing more harm than good, let noob corps beat the crap out of each other and lose their districts, but they can only have 1 district there, they can have as many outside Odeluff.
But in the meantime, burn those religious nuts to the ground. Let them know that there is no god who can save their pathetic souls. |
DaddyKillsEmAll
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
143
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
To be frank as well, we won't attack corps that we have relations with.
hahahaha^^ Not sure why that's funny or would surprise you. We aren't taking the moral ground of policing Oddeldulf. We just choose not to obey those rules and are giving you the reasons why.
really? Do i have to explain why im laughing about that bs?
We should all follow the rules of PFC.
U guys take our district and saying: ey, u are a "vet" corp and shouldnt be on the PFC. Im fine with this.
But right after that u saying: ey, we are only removing "not friendly" corps. And we are not policing...
Its ok ydubbs, do what u have to do...;)
Sad to see, that PFC is going this way.
U could have ask us if we leave PFC for a new corp ;)
Im out of here...:D
PS: Sry for my good english  |
Long Evity
638
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
DJINN Rampage wrote:i find it to be LOL that RND is judging other corps farming isk on PFC since you guys were on there for weeks after we asked you repeatedly to bounce, im glad you guys are taking the initiative in policing PFC though and im sure kujo would back me in saying we'd be glad to pass the torch of being the police to you.
Stop, trying, to, troll. It's starting to burn my eyes. It must of been said and quoted like, 5 times, that they are not policing anything. Just doing what you lazy bums can't do yourselves.
How about instead of trolling the forums constantly pretending to be a factor - you actually do something? Lol
I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2175
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Posted - 2013.12.07 22:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
To be frank as well, we won't attack corps that we have relations with.
hahahaha^^ Not sure why that's funny or would surprise you. We aren't taking the moral ground of policing Oddeldulf. We just choose not to obey those rules and are giving you the reasons why. really? Do i have to explain why im laughing about that bs? We should all follow the rules of PFC. U guys take our district and saying: ey, u are a "vet" corp and shouldnt be on the PFC. Im fine with this. But right after that u saying: ey, we are only removing "not friendly" corps. And we are not policing... Its ok ydubbs, do what u have to do...;) Sad to see, that PFC is going this way. U could have ask us if we leave PFC for a new corp ;) Im out of here...:D PS: Sry for my good english
Again....if we were policing PFC, then you would have a point. But we aren't policing so it is our prerogative if we decide to attack a corp or not. I'll reiterate...We aren't looking to attack corps and burn PFC. At the same time, we are not following the current rules. All districts should be at risk.
I'm not going to attack a friendly corp because it isn't our responsibility nor are we policing it. I would hope and encourage them to leave PFC after a while. It is like knocking a stranger out if he crashed your car but just being pissed at your brother if he did it.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Vethosis
Pradox XVI
953
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Posted - 2013.12.07 22:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
pfc is stupid and i'd love to see someone attack the pfc districts cus rules are for losers like ydubbs
If you notice this notice you will notice that this notice was not worth noticing.
Email me at: [email protected]
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Superhero Rawdon
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
113
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Posted - 2013.12.07 22:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:It's true...some of the corps on PFC has been on there for how long now? Noone plays with the urgency and the heart because there is no risk of losing their district. You see guys in pc battles with advanced and std gear...or staying back trying not to lose any suits. I remember corps bringing 6 guys to the pc battle.. I mean, what sort of training is that?
If corps want to train, then they need to venture out of pc. The only problem is that who are you going to attack? Only attainable districts belong to corps that new corps won't be able to beat and they have so many. Best thing would be if corps attack corps on their relative level. I believe in the Tier system that was being constructed before.
But at the same time, how can you ask a corp to give up their districts if they don't want to. Or, ask fhem not to attack a certain corp if they want to. So, even in a system where the likes of Nyain San shouldn't attack a corp like dystopia...how can you ask them not to...and where does it stop? AE is better than everyone in MH, right? So, should they not launch attacks because they're going to roflstomp everyone? How can you ask them not to? It's really up to every corp to decide what they should do AND to consider if it benefits the longevity of Planetary Conquest.
I don't have the solution but I do know that PFC is not doing anything but giving guys extremely friendly battles and are not gearing them for the real experience of pc. Many of them have no intent of venturing out of PFC either.
+1
i bleed chocolate milk........and poop batarangs
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MICKY KNOCKS
The dyst0pian Corporation
Zero-Day
134
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Posted - 2013.12.08 04:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
We are probably moving out soon. Probably within a month or two because honestly it is expensive as hell to train there, but for us it has been worth it because of how much we have learned. As soon as our clone count generates any money we launch an attack to keep from farming, what ends up happening is we usually get about 2-7 million isk credit from whatever is sold off after the clone cap of 450 is reached and we move to attack then get attacked the next day and so on. We love the challenge of the constant attacks, but it is exhausting. I have watched our corp wallet get crushed over the past 3 months since we have been training as hard as we can. I feel like if we get off of PFC with a sale of the district, then for about a month save up our tax income, then launch an all out assault on whoever in the universe, maybe, just maybe we can get an outside district. We are really scared that their alliance members will beat the hell out of us immediately afterwards though, and return the district to whoever it is. I am not sure how this all plays out, but I love PFC. It has givin this game true meaning to me. Without it I would just be another blueberry out in the middle of nowhere tryin to steal your LAV.
That said, I am interested in this idea of the districts being able to be flipped. This way we may not have as big of fear to move out because we could just go back and take a district from someone on PFC, plus we would have to adapt to defending all maps. I see a lot of flaws, but a lot of benefits as well. I second that the bigger corps like Nyan San, UPS, and the likes should step aside for more indie corps. I mean if we are already thinking of it, what the hell are you guys doing there? Move out so the noobs can get a little fighting in.
Soulja Ghostface wrote:about attacking big corps that are farming im suprised no one mentioned helstorm inc.
ive seen them have maximum clones on that district for weeks at a time. no joke
Soulja I think you may have this mixed up as we have been in several battles with Hellstorm recently, and their clone count is hardly ever maxed out, plus we just attacked them 2 days ago and there is another battle planned shortly. Also they do not have an outsidse district (although I'm sure they will soon), I know these guys and they aren't abusing this planet I assure you.
1st Commander/Director.The Dyst0pian Corporation
Public Channel: Dyst0pian Discourse
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ReGnYuM
NECROM0NGERS
Covert Intervention
1464
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Posted - 2013.12.08 04:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ahrendee Public Relations wrote:Recently Ahrendee Mercenaries has been taking over select districts on planet Oddelulf (commonly referred to as Planet Fight Club) in violation of the rules set forth for PFC. Today we explain to the community why we're doing it.
RND was originally very much in favor of a planet where corporations that were newer and inexperienced could practice against other corporations of similar skill level and experience. And in the beginning, the manifestation seemed to follow the vision closely.
In recent weeks and months, however, corporations that are neither new, nor inexperienced, have been holding districts on PFC as a way to generate ISK without any fear of losing the district itself. UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
As a corporation they (and other veteran corporations on PFC) have done more to damage the integrity and reputation of Planet Fight Club by farming ISK and making a mockery of the battles than we could ever do merely by taking over their district. The first battle with UPS simply reinforced our belief that without any fear of losing districts, corporations on PFC are not getting legitimate Planetary Conquest training nor are they treating the battles with anything approaching respect. This is the highest competitive level in Dust and with nothing at risk, there's little reason to put in any true effort.
If the threat of losing a district is removed, battles are not going to be up to the standard of normal PC and ultimately do more harm than good to corporations training there.
+1 for copying my PR swag
If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514.
KDR>ALL
Sig Move: Minmatar Crub Stomp
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2181
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Posted - 2013.12.08 06:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
MICKY KNOCKS wrote:We are probably moving out soon. Probably within a month or two because honestly it is expensive as hell to train there, but for us it has been worth it because of how much we have learned. As soon as our clone count generates any money we launch an attack to keep from farming, what ends up happening is we usually get about 2-7 million isk credit from whatever is sold off after the clone cap of 450 is reached and we move to attack then get attacked the next day and so on. We love the challenge of the constant attacks, but it is exhausting. I have watched our corp wallet get crushed over the past 3 months since we have been training as hard as we can. I feel like if we get off of PFC with a sale of the district, then for about a month save up our tax income, then launch an all out assault on whoever in the universe, maybe, just maybe we can get an outside district. We are really scared that their alliance members will beat the hell out of us immediately afterwards though, and return the district to whoever it is. I am not sure how this all plays out, but I love PFC. It has givin this game true meaning to me. Without it I would just be another blueberry out in the middle of nowhere tryin to steal your LAV. That said, I am interested in this idea of the districts being able to be flipped. This way we may not have as big of fear to move out because we could just go back and take a district from someone on PFC, plus we would have to adapt to defending all maps. I see a lot of flaws, but a lot of benefits as well. I second that the bigger corps like Nyan San, UPS, and the likes should step aside for more indie corps. I mean if we are already thinking of it, what the hell are you guys doing there? Move out so the noobs can get a little fighting in. Soulja Ghostface wrote:about attacking big corps that are farming im suprised no one mentioned helstorm inc.
ive seen them have maximum clones on that district for weeks at a time. no joke Soulja I think you may have this mixed up as we have been in several battles with Hellstorm recently, and their clone count is hardly ever maxed out, plus we just attacked them 2 days ago and there is another battle planned shortly. Also they do not have an outsidse district (although I'm sure they will soon), I know these guys and they aren't abusing this planet I assure you.
For Dystopia I wouldn't move off of Oddeldulf. But just be open to the idea that a new corp may attack you for your district. And if you lose the district to new corp that's trying to break into pc. Then you have the right to do the same.
There's no issue with farming ISK (imo, what's the point of having districts if you can't earn off of them) but you should farm ISK with the risk of losing the district.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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MICKY KNOCKS
The dyst0pian Corporation
Zero-Day
134
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Posted - 2013.12.08 07:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
I see your point, but PFC was set up with good intentions, and we are just trying to keep our end by not farming. Honestly, we aren't ready to move out yet, but soon we will be. More importantly, we will be ready to go when the PS4 server comes online because of PFC, and we will not need to inhabit a similar space then.
1st Commander/Director.The Dyst0pian Corporation
Public Channel: Dyst0pian Discourse
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Cenex Langly
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
466
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Posted - 2013.12.08 09:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
Norbit1996 wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:cool story bro I thoroughly enjoyed that story aswell! :D
I love how Rampage is using a 5 year old internet meme to attempt to sound funny. He tried so hard too!
Newb
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JL3Eleven
1382
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Posted - 2013.12.08 09:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cenex Langly wrote:Norbit1996 wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:cool story bro I thoroughly enjoyed that story aswell! :D I love how Rampage is using a 5 year old internet meme to attempt to sound funny. He tried so hard too!
Try hard? Wait till you have to use PRO to field teams lol. 
Dust Billionaire and LAV BPO Dealer
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -Henry David Thoreau
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Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
825
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Posted - 2013.12.08 10:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ahrendee Public Relations wrote:We wanted more ISK and don't really care about PFC, so we took some districts from people unlikely to fight back and then made a post about it.
I fixed your original post for you.
I'm getting utterly fed up with the massive amount of pomp and circumstance people infuse into these absolutely asinine posts. You wanted ISK and you wanted districts. So be it, you got it. Ruining PFC in the process is the price you pay, but own up to it.
If you felt otherwise, you would have contacted UPS, ROFL, or anyone really about UPS's activity on PFC. Activity which has been as frequent as possible considering the horrendous lack of EUTZ targets and the debilitating effect that PC lag has on European corporations in particular.
Instead you shoved your face in without a care nor a word nor a thought towards the consequences. That's avarice at its finest.
If you had actually taken time to look, you would find that you just took the PFC district from the only German corporation in PC- a corporation that has survived not only the brutally flawed game mechanics which we've endured for months, but also suffered more acutely at the hands of the latency issues than practically anyone else. You would find that you had taken the district from a corporation which, for more than 4 months, hasn't had another district to their name because of these circumstances.
Good job on making it harder for an entire part of the community to participate in PC.
These posts fly around here, and all they're about is corporations acting like boys instead of men. If you were men, you'd own up to the real motivations of your actions and deal with the consequences. Instead the message is insipid and cowardly.
True story- Nobody hates you for being greedy and self-interested. That's New Eden. What can get people to dislike you is lying to their faces about how noble your intentions are in the universe where nobility is a fairy tale.
PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION
Have a pony
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stateproperty07
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
Renegade Alliance
187
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Posted - 2013.12.08 11:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Ahrendee Public Relations wrote:We wanted more ISK and don't really care about PFC, so we took some districts from people unlikely to fight back and then made a post about it. I fixed your original post for you. I'm getting utterly fed up with the massive amount of pomp and circumstance people infuse into these absolutely asinine posts. You wanted ISK and you wanted districts. So be it, you got it. Ruining PFC in the process is the price you pay, but own up to it. If you felt otherwise, you would have contacted UPS, ROFL, or anyone really about UPS's activity on PFC. Activity which has been as frequent as possible considering the horrendous lack of EUTZ targets and the debilitating effect that PC lag has on European corporations in particular. Instead you shoved your face in without a care nor a word nor a thought towards the consequences. That's avarice at its finest. If you had actually taken time to look, you would find that you just took the PFC district from the only German corporation in PC- a corporation that has survived not only the brutally flawed game mechanics which we've endured for months, but also suffered more acutely at the hands of the latency issues than practically anyone else. You would find that you had taken the district from a corporation which, for more than 4 months, hasn't had another district to their name because of these circumstances. Good job on making it harder for an entire part of the community to participate in PC. These posts fly around here, and all they're about is corporations acting like boys instead of men. If you were men, you'd own up to the real motivations of your actions and deal with the consequences. Instead the message is insipid and cowardly. True story- Nobody hates you for being greedy and self-interested. That's New Eden. What can get people to dislike you is lying to their faces about how noble your intentions are in the universe where nobility is a fairy tale.
for you to post this is irony at it's best, when your alliance constantly attacks itself to protect and farm it's districts, if you really cared about the Dust community wanting to participate in pc, why not give your districts to them, since you do nothing with them anyways, or man up, unlock your districts, and let those corps wanting to be in pc have their shot, easy to point fingers but never at yourself |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
Kleenex Inc.
1592
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Posted - 2013.12.08 14:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Fw 1.7
Less lag, wait mere minutes before next battle, actually impacts Eve, new items.
Pc
You can farm isk, wait a day and a half until battle, lags too much, same old trash.
Pc really is getting forgotten about mate, its a pile of trash set in trash space that gets abused to hell. Anyone in their right mind will just laugh at the thought of that shtty game mode.
Good luck with that though, I'll bet people will just lock their districts anyway lol.
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
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jimmybroon brown
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
26
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Posted - 2013.12.08 17:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Pradox is still fielding our px16 members as training for them. If I or other pradox one members are in the battle, we are there to squad lead and teach new guys our tactics. If our pfc is not getting attacked, we are sure to send out our own attacks as we want to have as many training battles as we can handle.
our next pfc fight is today vs the burgerz people. Going to raid their pfc and steal their sandwhiches and fries.
Has pradox got 16 x active players? Always see ringers never 16 x pradox one.:) |
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect
316
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Posted - 2013.12.08 20:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Right....but this is how you fix it. Make Oddeldulf the entry into pc. Make it the indie planet, so to speak. So small or low tiered corps can farm if they want but their districts will be at risk from new corps entering in.
So, if a corp is good enough to beat one of the weaker corps on Oddeldulf, then they launch a few clone packs and now they are in. They have the option to take more districts on Oddeldulf if they can. They get their training up....and then they try their luck outside of Oddeldulf if they want to grow.
Corps that have been kicked out of PC should have the option to reenter pc through Oddeldulf as well, especially if they are rebuilding. But they still run the risk of being attacked since they are considered vet corps. The problem is no risk of losing districts...
+1. PFC would work better if it was a live fire zone for corps that can't (yet) compete in MH proper. Anyone could flip a district there provided:
1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper.
2. They didn't already own a PFC district.
3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count).
This way PFC would operate more like the 'fight club' ideal:
- Indie corps outside of PFC would have a strong incentive to attack as it would be the one way they could take a district without the threat of immediately losing it to a vet corp.
- Because of that PFC would be more self-regulating (no need for AE or whoever to come along and say 'use your clones or lose your district').
- District ownership would be decided by battles between indie corps, rather than by 'the powers that be'.
- As districts could be flipped the stakes would be higher, so it would give a truer PC experience than current PFC. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2189
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 20:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Ahrendee Public Relations wrote:We wanted more ISK and don't really care about PFC, so we took some districts from people unlikely to fight back and then made a post about it. I fixed your original post for you. I'm getting utterly fed up with the massive amount of pomp and circumstance people infuse into these absolutely asinine posts. You wanted ISK and you wanted districts. So be it, you got it. Ruining PFC in the process is the price you pay, but own up to it. If you felt otherwise, you would have contacted UPS, ROFL, or anyone really about UPS's activity on PFC. Activity which has been as frequent as possible considering the horrendous lack of EUTZ targets and the debilitating effect that PC lag has on European corporations in particular. Instead you shoved your face in without a care nor a word nor a thought towards the consequences. That's avarice at its finest. If you had actually taken time to look, you would find that you just took the PFC district from the only German corporation in PC- a corporation that has survived not only the brutally flawed game mechanics which we've endured for months, but also suffered more acutely at the hands of the latency issues than practically anyone else. You would find that you had taken the district from a corporation which, for more than 4 months, hasn't had another district to their name because of these circumstances. Good job on making it harder for an entire part of the community to participate in PC. These posts fly around here, and all they're about is corporations acting like boys instead of men. If you were men, you'd own up to the real motivations of your actions and deal with the consequences. Instead the message is insipid and cowardly. True story- Nobody hates you for being greedy and self-interested. That's New Eden. What can get people to dislike you is lying to their faces about how noble your intentions are in the universe where nobility is a fairy tale.
Leither, you need to take things at face value and not delve deeper because of bias or personal feelings.
We are not policing PFC....so there's no reason to contact anyone about whether or not they should be there or not. We are simply not following the current rules of PFC because we do not believe in it, in this current state.
I hope the last statement was clear because it pretty much sums up most of it. We continue to say that we do want pc to grow. I believe that PFC should be an entry into pc. Because let's say carbon 7 wants to pc. Who will they attack outside of PFC? Corps are either locking all of their districts, timers are just bad, or they won't be able to beat some of the vet corps with just a clone pack. (No disrespect to carbon 7....I really don't know how good they are. Just used them as an example because they were the first corp that came to mind).
Now, there may be a corp that they can attack on PFC but they can't because there is no risk of losing the district. There is no expiration date to resign from PFC. How does that help the community?
The only corps that should be on PFC planet are low(er) skilled or new corps to PC. But their districts should all be at risk. If UPS last district was outside of PFC, I would have a real problem taking it from them because I don't think that corps should be totally eradicated. It isn't good for pc's longevity. Onslaught has a district and if we were greedy as you say, we would launch but that's their only district. Not saying that we would win but if we were greedy, we would attempt.
We're also not going to keep the district on PFC...you guys can send the pfc police to take it back or if there is a corp that wants to pc, then all they need to do is ask for it. We were really just borrowing the district and since none of the vet corps should be there anyway......
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
|
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2189
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 20:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Right....but this is how you fix it. Make Oddeldulf the entry into pc. Make it the indie planet, so to speak. So small or low tiered corps can farm if they want but their districts will be at risk from new corps entering in.
So, if a corp is good enough to beat one of the weaker corps on Oddeldulf, then they launch a few clone packs and now they are in. They have the option to take more districts on Oddeldulf if they can. They get their training up....and then they try their luck outside of Oddeldulf if they want to grow.
Corps that have been kicked out of PC should have the option to reenter pc through Oddeldulf as well, especially if they are rebuilding. But they still run the risk of being attacked since they are considered vet corps. The problem is no risk of losing districts... +1. PFC would work better if it was a live fire zone for corps that can't (yet) compete in MH proper. Anyone could flip a district there provided: 1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper. 2. They didn't already own a PFC district. 3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count). This way PFC would operate more like the 'fight club' ideal: - Indie corps outside of PFC would have a strong incentive to attack as it would be the one way they could take a district without the threat of immediately losing it to a vet corp. - Because of that PFC would be more self-regulating (no need for AE or whoever to come along and say 'use your clones or lose your district'). - District ownership would be decided by battles between indie corps, rather than by 'the powers that be'. - As districts could be flipped the stakes would be higher, so it would give a truer PC experience than current PFC. EDIT - My plan is a bit different from yours, because I don't think any corp should be able to take more than 1 PFC district. If they could, you'd get midrank corps with no land outside PFC that would take 5 or 6 PFC districts and farm them for the rest of eternity. There should be a reason to want to move beyond PFC, and that reason should be to own more than 1 district.
So, we're on the same page. But we can develop it a bit more. I don't think the rules 1,2,3 should apply. Because corps that got kicked out of pc should be able to return.
Honestly, I don't mind if vet corps that got removed from pc started back on PFC. Because it goes back to the point...how else will they reenter. Until CCP changes the clone count of a clone pack, it will be hard to win a match with 120 clones. Let alone two or three to take the district.
Also don't think they should have more 2 districts on PFC. Because you don't want one corp to take over the whole planet. If they do, then the community should have the green light to take the third district from them. There should be wars on PFC as well...so holding multiple districts shouldn't be a problem. But vets should be limited to 2. If they want more, then they will have to expand outside of PFC.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
|
Rich o
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
138
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 20:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Right....but this is how you fix it. Make Oddeldulf the entry into pc. Make it the indie planet, so to speak. So small or low tiered corps can farm if they want but their districts will be at risk from new corps entering in.
So, if a corp is good enough to beat one of the weaker corps on Oddeldulf, then they launch a few clone packs and now they are in. They have the option to take more districts on Oddeldulf if they can. They get their training up....and then they try their luck outside of Oddeldulf if they want to grow.
Corps that have been kicked out of PC should have the option to reenter pc through Oddeldulf as well, especially if they are rebuilding. But they still run the risk of being attacked since they are considered vet corps. The problem is no risk of losing districts... +1. PFC would work better if it was a live fire zone for corps that can't (yet) compete in MH proper. Anyone could flip a district there provided: 1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper. 2. They didn't already own a PFC district. 3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count). This way PFC would operate more like the 'fight club' ideal: - Indie corps outside of PFC would have a strong incentive to attack as it would be the one way they could take a district without the threat of immediately losing it to a vet corp. - Because of that PFC would be more self-regulating (no need for AE or whoever to come along and say 'use your clones or lose your district'). - District ownership would be decided by battles between indie corps, rather than by 'the powers that be'. - As districts could be flipped the stakes would be higher, so it would give a truer PC experience than current PFC. EDIT - My plan is a bit different from yours, because I don't think any corp should be able to take more than 1 PFC district. If they could, you'd get midrank corps with no land outside PFC that would take 5 or 6 PFC districts and farm them for the rest of eternity. There should be a reason to want to move beyond PFC, and that reason should be to own more than 1 district. So, we're on the same page. But we can develop it a bit more. I don't think the rules 1,2,3 should apply. Because corps that got kicked out of pc should be able to return. Honestly, I don't mind if vet corps that got removed from pc started back on PFC. Because it goes back to the point...how else will they reenter. Until CCP changes the clone count of a clone pack, it will be hard to win a match with 120 clones. Let alone two or three to take the district. Also don't think they should have more 2 districts on PFC. Because you don't want one corp to take over the whole planet. If they do, then the community should have the green light to take the third district from them. There should be wars on PFC as well...so holding multiple districts shouldn't be a problem. But vets should be limited to 2. If they want more, then they will have to expand outside of PFC.
Looool! All I hear is blablabla. And not even consistent blablabla. It's just "today this, tomorrow that". Now you just nullified the reason for taking our district. Pathetic
2nd place in EU squad cup
|
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2189
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 20:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rich o wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Right....but this is how you fix it. Make Oddeldulf the entry into pc. Make it the indie planet, so to speak. So small or low tiered corps can farm if they want but their districts will be at risk from new corps entering in.
So, if a corp is good enough to beat one of the weaker corps on Oddeldulf, then they launch a few clone packs and now they are in. They have the option to take more districts on Oddeldulf if they can. They get their training up....and then they try their luck outside of Oddeldulf if they want to grow.
Corps that have been kicked out of PC should have the option to reenter pc through Oddeldulf as well, especially if they are rebuilding. But they still run the risk of being attacked since they are considered vet corps. The problem is no risk of losing districts... +1. PFC would work better if it was a live fire zone for corps that can't (yet) compete in MH proper. Anyone could flip a district there provided: 1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper. 2. They didn't already own a PFC district. 3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count). This way PFC would operate more like the 'fight club' ideal: - Indie corps outside of PFC would have a strong incentive to attack as it would be the one way they could take a district without the threat of immediately losing it to a vet corp. - Because of that PFC would be more self-regulating (no need for AE or whoever to come along and say 'use your clones or lose your district'). - District ownership would be decided by battles between indie corps, rather than by 'the powers that be'. - As districts could be flipped the stakes would be higher, so it would give a truer PC experience than current PFC. EDIT - My plan is a bit different from yours, because I don't think any corp should be able to take more than 1 PFC district. If they could, you'd get midrank corps with no land outside PFC that would take 5 or 6 PFC districts and farm them for the rest of eternity. There should be a reason to want to move beyond PFC, and that reason should be to own more than 1 district. So, we're on the same page. But we can develop it a bit more. I don't think the rules 1,2,3 should apply. Because corps that got kicked out of pc should be able to return. Honestly, I don't mind if vet corps that got removed from pc started back on PFC. Because it goes back to the point...how else will they reenter. Until CCP changes the clone count of a clone pack, it will be hard to win a match with 120 clones. Let alone two or three to take the district. Also don't think they should have more 2 districts on PFC. Because you don't want one corp to take over the whole planet. If they do, then the community should have the green light to take the third district from them. There should be wars on PFC as well...so holding multiple districts shouldn't be a problem. But vets should be limited to 2. If they want more, then they will have to expand outside of PFC. Looool! All I hear is blablabla. And not even consistent blablabla. It's just "today this, tomorrow that". Now you just nullified the reason for taking our district. Pathetic
where's the inconsistency??
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect
317
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Posted - 2013.12.08 20:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Right....but this is how you fix it. Make Oddeldulf the entry into pc. Make it the indie planet, so to speak. So small or low tiered corps can farm if they want but their districts will be at risk from new corps entering in.
So, if a corp is good enough to beat one of the weaker corps on Oddeldulf, then they launch a few clone packs and now they are in. They have the option to take more districts on Oddeldulf if they can. They get their training up....and then they try their luck outside of Oddeldulf if they want to grow.
Corps that have been kicked out of PC should have the option to reenter pc through Oddeldulf as well, especially if they are rebuilding. But they still run the risk of being attacked since they are considered vet corps. The problem is no risk of losing districts... +1. PFC would work better if it was a live fire zone for corps that can't (yet) compete in MH proper. Anyone could flip a district there provided: 1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper. 2. They didn't already own a PFC district. 3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count). This way PFC would operate more like the 'fight club' ideal: - Indie corps outside of PFC would have a strong incentive to attack as it would be the one way they could take a district without the threat of immediately losing it to a vet corp. - Because of that PFC would be more self-regulating (no need for AE or whoever to come along and say 'use your clones or lose your district'). - District ownership would be decided by battles between indie corps, rather than by 'the powers that be'. - As districts could be flipped the stakes would be higher, so it would give a truer PC experience than current PFC. EDIT - My plan is a bit different from yours, because I don't think any corp should be able to take more than 1 PFC district. If they could, you'd get midrank corps with no land outside PFC that would take 5 or 6 PFC districts and farm them for the rest of eternity. There should be a reason to want to move beyond PFC, and that reason should be to own more than 1 district. So, we're on the same page. But we can develop it a bit more. I don't think the rules 1,2,3 should apply. Because corps that got kicked out of pc should be able to return. Honestly, I don't mind if vet corps that got removed from pc started back on PFC. Because it goes back to the point...how else will they reenter. Until CCP changes the clone count of a clone pack, it will be hard to win a match with 120 clones. Let alone two or three to take the district. Also don't think they should have more 2 districts on PFC. Because you don't want one corp to take over the whole planet. If they do, then the community should have the green light to take the third district from them. There should be wars on PFC as well...so holding multiple districts shouldn't be a problem. But vets should be limited to 2. If they want more, then they will have to expand outside of PFC.
Actually I wasn't as clear as I should have been. Number 1 should be 'they DON'T own any districts in MH proper'. I'd have no problem at all with a vet corp that has no districts now but once did taking a PFC district. So we agree on that point.
Regarding the maximum number of PFC districts held by one corp, I would worry that some quite capable corps would be tempted to farm 2 PFC districts rather than enter MH proper and lose everything. But it does introduce a nice dynamic in that PFC corps could then use their district clones rather than clone packs to attack, which is an important part of PC. So you've persuaded me  .
So the revised version says a corp can hold a PFC district if:
1. They don't own any districts in MH proper.
2. They don't own more than one other PFC district.
3. They don't use ringers. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2190
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 20:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Right....but this is how you fix it. Make Oddeldulf the entry into pc. Make it the indie planet, so to speak. So small or low tiered corps can farm if they want but their districts will be at risk from new corps entering in.
So, if a corp is good enough to beat one of the weaker corps on Oddeldulf, then they launch a few clone packs and now they are in. They have the option to take more districts on Oddeldulf if they can. They get their training up....and then they try their luck outside of Oddeldulf if they want to grow.
Corps that have been kicked out of PC should have the option to reenter pc through Oddeldulf as well, especially if they are rebuilding. But they still run the risk of being attacked since they are considered vet corps. The problem is no risk of losing districts... +1. PFC would work better if it was a live fire zone for corps that can't (yet) compete in MH proper. Anyone could flip a district there provided: 1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper. 2. They didn't already own a PFC district. 3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count). This way PFC would operate more like the 'fight club' ideal: - Indie corps outside of PFC would have a strong incentive to attack as it would be the one way they could take a district without the threat of immediately losing it to a vet corp. - Because of that PFC would be more self-regulating (no need for AE or whoever to come along and say 'use your clones or lose your district'). - District ownership would be decided by battles between indie corps, rather than by 'the powers that be'. - As districts could be flipped the stakes would be higher, so it would give a truer PC experience than current PFC. EDIT - My plan is a bit different from yours, because I don't think any corp should be able to take more than 1 PFC district. If they could, you'd get midrank corps with no land outside PFC that would take 5 or 6 PFC districts and farm them for the rest of eternity. There should be a reason to want to move beyond PFC, and that reason should be to own more than 1 district. So, we're on the same page. But we can develop it a bit more. I don't think the rules 1,2,3 should apply. Because corps that got kicked out of pc should be able to return. Honestly, I don't mind if vet corps that got removed from pc started back on PFC. Because it goes back to the point...how else will they reenter. Until CCP changes the clone count of a clone pack, it will be hard to win a match with 120 clones. Let alone two or three to take the district. Also don't think they should have more 2 districts on PFC. Because you don't want one corp to take over the whole planet. If they do, then the community should have the green light to take the third district from them. There should be wars on PFC as well...so holding multiple districts shouldn't be a problem. But vets should be limited to 2. If they want more, then they will have to expand outside of PFC. Actually I wasn't as clear as I should have been. Number 1 should be 'they DON'T own any districts in MH proper'. I'd have no problem at all with a vet corp that has no districts now but once did taking a PFC district. So we agree on that point. Regarding the maximum number of PFC districts held by one corp, I would worry that some quite capable corps would be tempted to farm 2 PFC districts rather than enter MH proper and lose everything. But it does introduce a nice dynamic in that PFC corps could then use their district clones rather than clone packs to attack, which is an important part of PC. So you've persuaded me . So the revised version says a corp can hold a PFC district if: 1. They don't own any districts in MH proper. 2. They don't own more than one other PFC district. 3. They don't use ringers.
I don't mind ringers either...cause we want PFC to operate like "MH proper". I mean, 1-man or 4-man corps shouldn't be allowed. But if a corp can usually field 16 but is short or need a little help, depending on the opponent, then I can get behind that.
And we leave policing up to the community. Whoever decides to attack a corp in violation will well be in their right. But then they should give up or sell the district when a new corp asks.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Rich o
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
138
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 21:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:where's the inconsistency??
Ahrendee Public Relations wrote:
In recent weeks and months, however, corporations that are neither new, nor inexperienced, have been holding districts on PFC as a way to generate ISK without any fear of losing the district itself. UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Honestly, I don't mind if vet corps that got removed from pc started back on PFC. Because it goes back to the point...how else will they reenter. Until CCP changes the clone count of a clone pack, it will be hard to win a match with 120 clones. Let alone two or three to take the district.
Also don't think they should have more 2 districts on PFC. Because you don't want one corp to take over the whole planet. If they do, then the community should have the green light to take the third district from them. There should be wars on PFC as well...so holding multiple districts shouldn't be a problem. But vets should be limited to 2. If they want more, then they will have to expand outside of PFC.
What is it now? Vets with PC-experience in or out?
2nd place in EU squad cup
|
Ani X
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 00:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:where's the inconsistency??
Ahrendee Public Relations wrote:
In recent weeks and months, however, corporations that are neither new, nor inexperienced, have been holding districts on PFC as a way to generate ISK without any fear of losing the district itself. UPS is the most recent of these corporations we feel don't belong on Oddelulf for one very important reason: they have too much Dust and PC experience to be there.
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Honestly, I don't mind if vet corps that got removed from pc started back on PFC. Because it goes back to the point...how else will they reenter. Until CCP changes the clone count of a clone pack, it will be hard to win a match with 120 clones. Let alone two or three to take the district.
Also don't think they should have more 2 districts on PFC. Because you don't want one corp to take over the whole planet. If they do, then the community should have the green light to take the third district from them. There should be wars on PFC as well...so holding multiple districts shouldn't be a problem. But vets should be limited to 2. If they want more, then they will have to expand outside of PFC.
Rich o wrote:
What is it now? Vets with PC-experience in or out?
Ignore the blabla in the opening post. Just add this, and you have your answer:
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
To be frank as well, we won't attack corps that we have relations with.
In other words: Vet-Corps that are blue to them are in, even if with 2 PFC districts... all others are out. That looks very consistent to me.
Praise, all you sinners, the Angels of PFC come to the rescue of the community. |
Moorian Flav
Ectype Inc.
104
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 00:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper.
2. They didn't already own a PFC district.
3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count).
That's all well and good until BS MCoD type corps (with alts from another, actual corp) start taking districts to farm ISK. Also, if you limit alliances, you'll just extend what is already happening; where those that are actually allied do not let it be known via UI. With how the majority of DUST enjoys exploiting flaws rather than playing as intended, PFC will never fully work; no matter how you make/enforce it.
BTW, I find it laughable that RND is trying to "correct PFC" after (1) breaking PFC rules (2) when PFC has not changed much since when it was policed by EoN. |
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2192
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 04:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
Rich o wrote:
What is it now? Vets with PC-experience in or out?
I didn't write the original post. What I wrote in that paragraph is my own personal idea of what PFC should be. There's no inconsistency with my posts.
But it's really not hard to put two and two together. The big problem is the lack of risk that the current PFC rules allow. A vet corp that got kicked out of PC and is trying to rebuild should enter PC through PFC if they can't enter by beating one of the corps outside of PFC. But their district is still at risk.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2192
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 04:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ani X wrote:
In other words: Vet-Corps that are blue to them are in, even if with 2 PFC districts... all others are out. That looks very consistent to me.
Praise, all you sinners, the Angels of PFC come to the rescue of the community.
In laymen terms, we are not policing PFC. The community should "police" it. If we decide to attack a corp that we feel shouldn't belong there or a corp that is fair game, then we will. If we choose not to attack a corp, then we won't.....it isn't our responsibility.
If we chose to accept the responsibility of of policing PFC, officially, then we would have to attack blue corps or get them to remove themselves from PFC. Do you understand this or no?
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ani X
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 09:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Ani X wrote:
In other words: Vet-Corps that are blue to them are in, even if with 2 PFC districts... all others are out. That looks very consistent to me.
Praise, all you sinners, the Angels of PFC come to the rescue of the community.
In laymen terms, we are not policing PFC. The community should "police" it. If we decide to attack a corp that we feel shouldn't belong there or a corp that is fair game, then we will. If we choose not to attack a corp, then we won't.....it isn't our responsibility. If we chose to accept the responsibility of of policing PFC, officially, then we would have to attack blue corps or get them to remove themselves from PFC. Do you understand this or no?
Then what is the opening post about?
UPS used the PFC district according to the rules. UPS was always willing to play along special rules by any new corp that attacked. Also we filled the PFC teams significantly with new players. Because of this or nevertheless, UPS has never been approached to transfer this district to a newbie corp.
You obviously know nothing about UPS and what their vet players do for any new player in the German DUST community, whether they are in UPS, in a small / new German corp, or just in an NPC corp. We helped writing the German DUST tutorials back in closed beta and we still help and promote this game in all possible means.
So do whatever you want with this district that you took by breaking the PFC rules because one of your members was so enraged during the first attack.
But don't come to the forums to twist the facts or to spread ****-talking about UPS or to pretend you did a great service to the poors and the weaks. |
Rich o
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
145
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 10:16:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Rich o wrote:
What is it now? Vets with PC-experience in or out?
I didn't write the original post. What I wrote in that paragraph is my own personal idea of what PFC should be. There's no inconsistency with my posts. But it's really not hard to put two and two together. The big problem is the lack of risk that the current PFC rules allow. A vet corp that got kicked out of PC and is trying to rebuild should enter PC through PFC if they can't enter by beating one of the corps outside of PFC. But their district is still at risk.
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:no vet corp belongs there, not even us. You aren't the only corp that we attacked on PFC and probably won't be the last.
The main problem is that each month (or 2) someone comes around telling how PFC should work forcing us to adapt.
2nd place in EU squad cup
|
The-Beard
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
95
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Posted - 2013.12.09 10:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
In laymen terms, we are not policing PFC. The community should "police" it.
So, you are policing it... you are after all part of the community. Ok, generaly when someone is doing something that they don't want to be accused of doing, they repeatedly state that they are in fact.. not doing it. Marks of a guilty mind must deny, deny, deny. Or you could say RND wanted to change PFC and this is their way of doing it, after all it is so much easier to do something wrong then ask and be told no (dang it mommy I wanted my COOKIE NOW!).
Granted RND does have a very good point regarding PFC and its current rules. You aren't going to give it your best if you know in the end you will not lose your district. Having said that, PFC won't work that way either.
Realisticly the only way PFC would work is if every battle fought was in standard gear, this gives a semi even playing field with only skill points, gun game, and tactical skills to off set the balance. You would then need another planet for them to use advanced gear and yet another with proto, all following the same concept that you may or may not lose your district depending on how well you defend it. I shouldn't have to say it but I will, you can only hold districts (1-2 districts max) on one planet... so either you're on STD PFC, ADV PFC, or PROTO PFC. The tier system is the only way that a new corp can learn and earn his way into MH proper. This also would work for the vet corps that lost all their districts by giving them a place to retrain, help train some newbies, then get back out there to try and conqure MH again.
However, thats a lot of real estate that would have to be given up for the community. Plus, you would need a police force (which should be tribunal of veteran alliances) to police the PFC planets to insure that when a corp is clearly ready to move on, they move on.
Just an idea which will now be troll in .... |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2192
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 10:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
The-Beard wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
In laymen terms, we are not policing PFC. The community should "police" it.
So, you are policing it... you are after all part of the community. Ok, generaly when someone is doing something that they don't want to be accused of doing, they repeatedly state that they are in fact.. not doing it. Marks of a guilty mind must deny, deny, deny. Or you could say RND wanted to change PFC and this is their way of doing it, after all it is so much easier to do something wrong rather than ask and be told no (dang it mommy I wanted my COOKIE NOW!). Granted RND does have a very good point regarding PFC and its current rules. You aren't going to give it your best if you know in the end you will not lose your district. Having said that, PFC won't work that way either. Realisticly the only way PFC would work is if every battle fought was in standard gear, this gives a semi even playing field with only skill points, gun game, and tactical skills to off set the balance. You would then need another planet for them to use advanced gear and yet another with proto, all following the same concept that you may or may not lose your district depending on how well you defend it. I shouldn't have to say it but I will, you can only hold districts (1-2 districts max) on one planet... so either you're on STD PFC, ADV PFC, or PROTO PFC. The tier system is the only way that a new corp can learn and earn his way into MH proper. This also would work for the vet corps that lost all their districts by giving them a place to retrain, help train some newbies, then get back out there to try and conqure MH again. However, thats a lot of real estate that would have to be given up for the community. Plus, you would need a police force (which should be tribunal of veteran alliances) to police the PFC planets to insure that when a corp is clearly ready to move on, they move on. Just an idea which will now be troll in ....
We are not helping to police it because we don't believe in the current rules. Just because we took a district and believe PFC should be different, doesn't mean that we are now policing it.
We took the district because we are actually rebelling against PFC. If the rules change, then the vet corps in this community as a whole should police it. If someone doesn't belong there, a vet corp should just remove them...it's that simple. RND may choose to help remove them or not. I feel that PFC should be treated like the other planets in MH. The only difference is that lower skilled corps should be there so that new corps have a way of entering pc.
I'm repeating myself because guys don't seem to grasp what i'm saying and I'm trying to break it down, simpler each time.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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DJINN Kujo
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
723
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 11:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sounds like RND wants to run PFC?
Ancient Exiles, CEO
Your failure to plan ahead does not constitute an emergency on my end.
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The-Beard
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
96
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 11:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
Wheres the dang emote for face palm? BAH! Ok, I admit it.. bad idea to troll this guy on his corps "policiing" of PFC. Look man, we get it, we really do. What we don't like is how you continue to try and justify your actions as some blah blah "not policing" blah blah crap. You wanted cookie, so you took the cookie... you did not ask mom to have a cookie. Now your telling us after you have taken and eaten the cookie that she is stupid and that you don't have to listen to her anymore because you feel you should eat cookies when you want to. However, you may or may not help other kids take a cookie with out asking because you choose to.
We get it to the point that we turned the district into a cookie (just putting that in there to make sure you "get it" in "simple terms")
Now lets focus on your new idea of PFC and if the community will reject it or accept it, afterwards the community will decide whether or not to attack your new cookie (I'm sorry I mean district) because they felt like it and didn't want to to listen to mommy (I mean follow the rules).
Was that broken down simpler?
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2193
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 14:30:00 -
[69] - Quote
DJINN Kujo wrote:Sounds like RND wants to run PFC?
Nah, we dont....just dont believe that districts should be safe. They should all be at risk. We're not on a burn pfc to the ground mission.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
644
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 14:43:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DJINN Kujo wrote:Sounds like RND wants to run PFC? Nah, we dont....just dont believe that districts should be safe. They should all be at risk. We're not on a burn pfc to the ground mission.
At least not for the corporations that you have sexual "relations" with, amirite?
Booting UPS was dumb... they one of the few EU guys left around, if not the only German corp, bringing in new mercs and helping to train them.
You big ol' bitter dummy. |
|
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Ser Tarlon
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
66
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 15:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
Okay RND, if you want to change PFC than do it right or don't do it at all. And by "right" i mean remove EVERYONE and show that you are capable of changing PFC. But this jibberjabber about not removing blue corps but reds won't do much. Just shows that your mind isn't strong enough to do what you want to do.
Black, Red - Strength, Dead
Love bounties on my head
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2193
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 15:23:00 -
[72] - Quote
Lol @ guys that dont seem to get it. Not going to continue to write the same things. We'll be done with the district shortly, you can take it back when we leave it unoccupied or ask someone to take it from us if you're impatient.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
2362
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 15:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
still.. PFC is like the Brady bunch..
dysfunctional and u just wanna smack everyone 
seriously tho... few follow the rules, so the rules are useless. There is no public discussion when things happen, which is the COMPLETE opposite of how its supposed to be done.
Its unfortunate that there re a handful of corps who have been on PFC for a while, followed all rules, and are truly affected by the lack of order or what have you on the planet.
the torch was passed to AE, and the ball has been dropped, punted, blocked, lateraled, and has gone out of bounds.
The play is under review... problem is no one knows how to operate the replay equipment
those that DO either don't have the manpower or simply just don't give a $h1t, or DO.. and just don't have the stones to regulate.
it would be Sooooo easy to police, because, in theory, all experienced PC vets should be on the same side in regard to PFC..
obviously not the case hence a broken system.
and with no 'full disclosure' on the forums, and districts flip faster than a fry cook at a local diner during their 2fer1 hotcakes special, the system at its core has derailed
Common Sense and Logic are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
770
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 17:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
I always find it funny when you have a thread of people all in major corps which own 10+ districts outside PFC gather up and all agree that PFC doesn't benefit anyone.
I've been with PFC in one way or another for a very long time, since it's inception. I've seen all the different policing styles employed so far, and my favorite, by far, was proposed by Mike Ruan of Pradox One: The community communicates with each other and polices themselves. For instance, someone took W-J-R's PFC district. FORIM attacked it, retook it, and granted it back to W-J-R.
The reality is, a small number of players currently control the vast majority of the territory available, and due to terrible game mechanics, there's not a ton people can do about it. PFC is an opportunity for a lot of people to play without a drastically unmanageable financial investment. Many of you are in corps where you can't fathom the idea that two or three clone packs is a major financial investment that may take months to gather.
So these corps will take months to get their money to get in, probably lose a few along the way, but maybe get lucky, and finally take one. And two days later, Nyain San rolls around with their Asian-region server and lags them out through two matches in about 40 minutes.
Player turnover has been terrible, especially with the PS4 launch. A lot of PFC corps have strived to run their newbs through PFC matches for practice. Corps who "rebel against PFC" are the problem though. We're happy to field our newer players, even against the toughest New Eden has to offer. But if we're going to lose our district and financial investment, we have to switch to our A team. More than once, our attempts to get our new players experience against other corps have been ruined when those corps have attempted to take our district rather than play us on it.
Ydubbs, I'm not questioning your sincerity. I'm not suggesting you aren't trying to do what you think is best. But you're wrong. You aren't in a position to understand what PFC offers, and how your corps' actions threaten it. Yes, there are problem children on PFC, yes, it's hard for a corp like TP or AE to manage it fairly. But it provides a lot of value for a lot of players. If you're truly committed to providing an environment for people to practice and grow, try and keep corps with territory outside of PFC completely hands-off, and let us manage ourselves.
Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC
www.dust-gents.com
Recruiting corporations and players now!
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
2362
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 18:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
that's really the issue tho. there is not a consensus to have such a place where corps can grow and get experience.
that's the root issue of PFC right there
some are for it, others aren't, others yet just don't care.
with he dwindling #s molden heath it becomes even harder to get a majority backing a particular stance.
unfortunate, but sadly true
Common Sense and Logic are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1848
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 21:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
Let People in PFC run PFC, Things **** up when big guys get involved, RND, R*, AE, TP, NS, PX1, O.H all of you have ****** things up. look PFC has done a fair job of handling itself, we've had battles fairly often
I agree with Mike how he proposed to actually have the COMMUNITY do it, hell you guys are the farthest thing from a community, I've seen more things I'd expect out of a community in Jita local chat than here, It's a shame.
if the community fails than we've failed and that means you've failed, every person reading this who believes in PFC has failed, The majority of people involved with PC do it through PFC because
A) PC is a laggy mess
B) The majority of Good players have and always will blue doughnut up
C) Because of other Various small issues(Lack of Corp Contracts/FW Team Deploy, Low Player Counts, etc)
Level 1 Forum Warrior
I'm a bittervet, if I seem like a douche it's because of your stupidity
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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
873
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 21:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
The reading comprehension of several of the recent posters is really pathetic. How many times has Dubbs said in this thread that we want the community, specifically PFC, to police itself? But sometimes there will be corps you can't take the district from even if you wanted to, because they're experienced, better and don't belong there.
Which one of you new corps is going to take both of Nyain San's districts? Any takers? Thought so. That's the sort of thing we're willing to do. Throughout the thread Dubbs has explained we like and respect what PFC is and does for some of the new corps. We're still a fan of the concept, but particulars (for example veteran corporations owning districts when on PFC, especially when they have more outside of it) need to be addressed.
We want MH to become more interesting overall, so taking out districts of corporations that are new and interested in PC (through PFC) holds no value for us. We did it one time recently for other reasons, but since then we've given that district up, and are currently in the process of finding UPS's district a home with another corporation, not a veteran corp in an alliance that has 20 districts outside of PFC.
And since we're on the topic, how about we start throwing a little trash talk back at ROFL? You've done your fair share of trying to paint us as the bad guys because we took one district from a corp that has no place being on a newb-friendly planet, but how about we talk about the 20 districts in MH that you've been locking for over a month? RoFL makes 10% of all of MH inaccessible to anyone else by locking their own districts with fake battles. You're the cancer of MH and to see any sort of moral high ground from anyone in an alliance that condones that selfish behavior is absolutely laughable.
I've got to give you props though, Leither, you do have the funniest signature I've seen on the forums so far.
Quote:PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
RNDclan.com
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
775
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 22:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:The reading comprehension of several of the recent posters is really pathetic. How many times has Dubbs said in this thread that we want the community, specifically PFC, to police itself? But sometimes there will be corps you can't take the district from even if you wanted to, because they're experienced, better and don't belong there.
Which one of you new corps is going to take both of Nyain San's districts? Any takers? Thought so. That's the sort of thing we're willing to do. Throughout the thread Dubbs has explained we like and respect what PFC is and does for some of the new corps. We're still a fan of the concept, but particulars (for example veteran corporations owning districts on PFC, especially when they have more outside of it) need to be addressed.
It's particularly his view that corps should attack to take districts on PFC that I take issue with. I certainly can understand needing help from outside PFC to remove someone like Nyain San. But then begs the question that shouldn't other residents of PFC be the ones to ask for help? I admit I don't troll the war room daily anymore, but it always seems to me that when a larger corp has gotten involved in some sort of police action on PFC, it's not particularly been requested by others on PFC. Forgive me if I'm wrong there.
Honestly, the number one thing that's beneficial in PFC is communication. When we know someone's just attacking for practice, and can rotate some of our greener players in. (As opposed to someone who doesn't support or even know about PFC, with which we need to run our A team.) Multiple times have community actions on PFC to remove people abusing it or breaking rules been mistaken as either a corp getting greedy, or scrapping PFC.
Honestly, the experiment I'd recommend: Make a thread, and have everyone who places an attack on PFC state the attack, whether they intend to claim the district or if it's just practice, and if it's a claim attempt, what reason they have for doing so. It's not really policeable due to the fact that we can see who's attacking who, but for those willing to do so, it'd be both a great opportunity to communicate, as well as evidence of activity and willingness to collaborate on this wonderful practice experiment.
Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC
www.dust-gents.com
Recruiting corporations and players now!
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
775
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 22:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
As a personal note, I really have no problem with even RND, Nyain, etc. participating in a PFC-like system, because it'd give us the chance to face off against them for skill. You definitely don't want to only face people below you. I prefer facing people on a *roughly* even tier, mostly because I love the excitement of a good close match. But as pointed out in this thread, if you aren't facing tougher and tougher opponents, you aren't learning.
One of the bummers of PC, is that if I have a district, and I go attack say... Nyain... in most circumstances, I have now poked the bear. Even if I just wanted a practice match, I might have just signed up for a retaliatory attack intending to take our district. The "no taking districts" thing in PFC fosters that ability. We can feel safe running against a tougher enemy, because we aren't sacrificing our district to do it. Risk aversion is a strong incentive to only attack weaker corps, so removing risk, allows more practice. (Obviously, there are problem cases where people roll standard and advanced gear in PC. Case-by-case problem, there.)
As a note, I've actually had among the greatest respect for how RND has sometimes chosen to do single attacks for fights, and not press the attack if the other team put up a good effort.
Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC
www.dust-gents.com
Recruiting corporations and players now!
|
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1848
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 22:52:00 -
[80] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:The reading comprehension of several of the recent posters is really pathetic. How many times has Dubbs said in this thread that we want the community, specifically PFC, to police itself? But sometimes there will be corps you can't take the district from even if you wanted to, because they're experienced, better and don't belong there. Which one of you new corps is going to take both of Nyain San's districts? Any takers? Thought so. That's the sort of thing we're willing to do. Throughout the thread Dubbs has explained we like and respect what PFC is and does for some of the new corps. We're still a fan of the concept, but particulars (for example veteran corporations owning districts on PFC, especially when they have more outside of it) need to be addressed. We want MH to become more interesting overall, so taking out districts of corporations that are new and interested in PC (through PFC) holds no value for us. We did it one time recently for other reasons, but since then we've given that district up, and are currently in the process of finding UPS's district a home with another corporation, not a veteran corp in an alliance that has 20 districts outside of PFC. And since we're on the topic, how about we start throwing a little trash talk back at ROFL? You've done your fair share of trying to paint us as the bad guys because we took one district from a corp that has no place being on a newb-friendly planet, but how about we talk about the 20 districts in MH that you've been locking for over a month? RoFL makes 10% of all of MH inaccessible to anyone else by locking their own districts with fake battles. You're the cancer of MH and to see any sort of moral high ground from anyone in an alliance that condones that selfish behavior is absolutely laughable. I've got to give you props though, Leither, you do have the funniest signature I've seen on the forums so far. Quote:PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION
Maybe an agreement, UPS doesn't need wiped off the board but unless AE, RND or Whomever wants to sit around collecting everyone's stories to manage it properly is welcome but we both know you can't single handedly manage it fairly.
there needs to be a way so Vet Corps are discouraged from being in PFC, hell I'd be tempted to propose something...
I'd rather do it in a private Convo though with EoN, RA, Prof V, Top Men, ROFL, Zero-Day, and PD Leadership, I've got something big in mind, but a proper Rework of PFC NEEDS UNILATERAL SUPPORT...
Everytime PFC gets ****** with by 1 or 2 groups it isn't as effective as having more people who have more experiences and more ideas and opinions to put on the table, everytime one corp is the only one at the table changing PFC then you get rules from 1 perspective only rather than a larger base of Ideas which could benifit PFC more.
Level 1 Forum Warrior
I'm a bittervet, if I seem like a douche it's because of your stupidity
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|
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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
877
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 23:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:
It's particularly his view that corps should attack to take districts on PFC that I take issue with. I certainly can understand needing help from outside PFC to remove someone like Nyain San. But then begs the question that shouldn't other residents of PFC be the ones to ask for help? I admit I don't troll the war room daily anymore, but it always seems to me that when a larger corp has gotten involved in some sort of police action on PFC, it's not particularly been requested by others on PFC. Forgive me if I'm wrong there.
There are always new corps interested in joining PFC. They might be worried about retaliation once the district is taken. In other words asking for someone else to poke the bear may still come back to hurt you.
Quote:Honestly, the number one thing that's beneficial in PFC is communication. When we know someone's just attacking for practice, and can rotate some of our greener players in. (As opposed to someone who doesn't support or even know about PFC, with which we need to run our A team.) Multiple times have community actions on PFC to remove people abusing it or breaking rules been mistaken as either a corp getting greedy, or scrapping PFC.
Honestly, the experiment I'd recommend: Make a thread, and have everyone who places an attack on PFC state the attack, whether they intend to claim the district or if it's just practice, and if it's a claim attempt, what reason they have for doing so. It's not really policeable due to the fact that we can see who's attacking who, but for those willing to do so, it'd be both a great opportunity to communicate, as well as evidence of activity and willingness to collaborate on this wonderful practice experiment.
That sounds like something the members of PFC could set up, which is the self-containing and self-operating we talked about several times in this thread. PFC will be what you make of it. If these new corps just want to farm ISK or play these safe battles where nothing is at risk, it defeats the purpose of PFC. If they want to avoid any sort of risk, that defeats the purpose of training for real PC battles. If guys want to fight stronger corps on PFC, all they need to do is ask. It's likely a lot of more experienced corps out there would be more than willing to play a newer corp that was actually interested in expanding to MH proper. Who knows, they might even find a new ally.
But to reiterate, we don't want to police PFC. We want PFC to work as it was originally intended--as a training grounds for new and inexperienced corporations to hopefully expand outwards. If we see very competent and experienced corporations like Nyain San simply farming more ISK, that's not something we feel honors the spirit of PFC. Hopefully veteran corporations and newer corporations on PFC can understand why we're doing it, which was the purpose of this thread.
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
RNDclan.com
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2196
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 00:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I always find it funny when you have a thread of people all in major corps which own 10+ districts outside PFC gather up and all agree that PFC doesn't benefit anyone.
I've been with PFC in one way or another for a very long time, since it's inception. I've seen all the different policing styles employed so far, and my favorite, by far, was proposed by Mike Ruan of Pradox One: The community communicates with each other and polices themselves. For instance, someone took W-J-R's PFC district. FORIM attacked it, retook it, and granted it back to W-J-R.
The reality is, a small number of players currently control the vast majority of the territory available, and due to terrible game mechanics, there's not a ton people can do about it. PFC is an opportunity for a lot of people to play without a drastically unmanageable financial investment. Many of you are in corps where you can't fathom the idea that two or three clone packs is a major financial investment that may take months to gather.
So these corps will take months to get their money to get in, probably lose a few along the way, but maybe get lucky, and finally take one. And two days later, Nyain San rolls around with their Asian-region server and lags them out through two matches in about 40 minutes.
.
This sort of plays into my problem with new corps and PFC. I'm a closed beta vet and was here at the start of PC. How do you think all of the vet corps started and got ready for pc? There wasn't a training planet..there wasn't a corp tax function. You know what we all did? I know RND did it and I only assumed others did it as well...we committed ourselves for pc. Our corp members grinded all day in pubs and donated in preparation for PC. My corp isn't as large as STB or Subdreddit, etc but we set a goal of $500M (cause that's what we thought we needed) to start pc with. We only had a few weeks to raise that as well.
It ended up costing us around $900M to secure all of the districts that we did at the start of pc. Back then there was no flipping a district in one day.....Clone packs weren't $36M. Clone packs were $80M and even if you had 100 clones left on the pack, you still had to use another clone pack to attack tomorrow. Flipping a cargo hub cost $240M not to mention reimbursement for vehicles. Or, reimbursing infantry proto suits where suits cost $90K and a shield extender cost $10K.
Corps nowadays want hand outs. They can buy into pc for $100M or be given a district on PFC or whatever. There's no grind, no blood, sweat or tears lost. New corps need to have that sort of commitment. They want handouts with no risk of loss. Back then, there were the Imps, PFBHz, EoN, Cronos....all corps that you had to worry about it..
I do understand that new corps and low skilled corps aren't able to beat some of the vet corps in MH proper. But that's why PFC should be an entry to corps like those. A place where they can attack and be competitive. But they must have risk of losing the district. Vet corps shouldn't be there because they should be competing outside of PFC.
Now, if a vet corp considers themselves to be a low skilled corp, then that makes sense and they should be on PFC. But, again, at a risk for losing the district. And if one corp is dominating PFC, then that's a signal that they are ready to move out of PFC and should be done by force if necessary. However, that will be up to the community.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2196
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 00:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
Also, if new corps want to attack a higher skilled corp, then all that they have to do is shoot the CEO a message. If a corp messaged me and asked to train their guys by setting up a battle on one of our districts (outside of PFC), why would I retaliate with a full onslaught of attacks? I don't think that any higher skileld corp would. Because everyone loves the ISK payouts of pc battles so why would anyone refuse such an arrangement?
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect
324
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:The reading comprehension of several of the recent posters is really pathetic. How many times has Dubbs said in this thread that we want the community, specifically PFC, to police itself? But sometimes there will be corps you can't take the district from even if you wanted to, because they're experienced, better and don't belong there.
Which one of you new corps is going to take both of Nyain San's districts? Any takers? Thought so. That's the sort of thing we're willing to do. Throughout the thread Dubbs has explained we like and respect what PFC is and does for some of the new corps. We're still a fan of the concept, but particulars (for example veteran corporations owning districts on PFC, especially when they have more outside of it) need to be addressed. It's particularly his view that corps should attack to take districts on PFC that I take issue with. I certainly can understand needing help from outside PFC to remove someone like Nyain San. But then begs the question that shouldn't other residents of PFC be the ones to ask for help? I admit I don't troll the war room daily anymore, but it always seems to me that when a larger corp has gotten involved in some sort of police action on PFC, it's not particularly been requested by others on PFC. Forgive me if I'm wrong there. Honestly, the number one thing that's beneficial in PFC is communication. When we know someone's just attacking for practice, and can rotate some of our greener players in. (As opposed to someone who doesn't support or even know about PFC, with which we need to run our A team.) Multiple times have community actions on PFC to remove people abusing it or breaking rules been mistaken as either a corp getting greedy, or scrapping PFC. Honestly, the experiment I'd recommend: Make a thread, and have everyone who places an attack on PFC state the attack, whether they intend to claim the district or if it's just practice, and if it's a claim attempt, what reason they have for doing so. It's not really policeable due to the fact that we can see who's attacking who, but for those willing to do so, it'd be both a great opportunity to communicate, as well as evidence of activity and willingness to collaborate on this wonderful practice experiment.
This is totally unmanageable. I promise you, plenty of attacks (probably a majority) would get placed with no statement on the forums, and the thread would immediately go to 10+ pages of 'why you attack me?' QQ, so no one could find anything relevant to their own corp.
I take it you've seen Fight Club? Those guys are really going hard; they don't look the same afterwards. That's not what PFC is like at the moment. Attacks are rare - right now 15 of 24 districts are at full clones. When people do attack, nothing is at stake, so people aren't willing to lose 15 proto suits throwing themselves at a well defended objective like they do in PC proper. Afterwards everything goes back to how it was.
I like YDubbs' idea. PFC has real fights with real consequences, like the rest of MH does, just between corps that don't own land elsewhere (either new corps or vet corps that are getting back on their feet). PFC corps would have to defend their land against each other and against corps who don't hold any land. With that system there's no need for any communication about the intent of an attack. This is planetary conquest, the intent is conquest.
AE, RND, etc would only get involved if PFC land was taken by a corp with land outside PFC, or if a PFC corp took more than the maximum number of districts (probably 2). The vast majority of district transfers would be handled by the PFC corps themselves and the other smaller corps that want to be there, through the crucible of war. Isn't that how it should be? |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2206
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Posted - 2013.12.10 13:54:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Attacks are rare - right now 15 of 24 districts are at full clones. When people do attack, nothing is at stake, so people aren't willing to lose 15 proto suits throwing themselves at a well defended objective like they do in PC proper. Afterwards everything goes back to how it was.
I like YDubbs' idea. PFC has real fights with real consequences, like the rest of MH does, just between corps that don't own land elsewhere (either new corps or vet corps that are getting back on their feet). PFC corps would have to defend their land against each other and against corps who don't hold any land. With that system there's no need for any communication about the intent of an attack. This is planetary conquest, the intent is conquest.
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QFT
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
2371
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Posted - 2013.12.10 14:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:The reading comprehension of several of the recent posters is really pathetic. How many times has Dubbs said in this thread that we want the community, specifically PFC, to police itself? But sometimes there will be corps you can't take the district from even if you wanted to, because they're experienced, better and don't belong there.
Which one of you new corps is going to take both of Nyain San's districts? Any takers? Thought so. That's the sort of thing we're willing to do. Throughout the thread Dubbs has explained we like and respect what PFC is and does for some of the new corps. We're still a fan of the concept, but particulars (for example veteran corporations owning districts on PFC, especially when they have more outside of it) need to be addressed. It's particularly his view that corps should attack to take districts on PFC that I take issue with. I certainly can understand needing help from outside PFC to remove someone like Nyain San. But then begs the question that shouldn't other residents of PFC be the ones to ask for help? I admit I don't troll the war room daily anymore, but it always seems to me that when a larger corp has gotten involved in some sort of police action on PFC, it's not particularly been requested by others on PFC. Forgive me if I'm wrong there. Honestly, the number one thing that's beneficial in PFC is communication. When we know someone's just attacking for practice, and can rotate some of our greener players in. (As opposed to someone who doesn't support or even know about PFC, with which we need to run our A team.) Multiple times have community actions on PFC to remove people abusing it or breaking rules been mistaken as either a corp getting greedy, or scrapping PFC. Honestly, the experiment I'd recommend: Make a thread, and have everyone who places an attack on PFC state the attack, whether they intend to claim the district or if it's just practice, and if it's a claim attempt, what reason they have for doing so. It's not really policeable due to the fact that we can see who's attacking who, but for those willing to do so, it'd be both a great opportunity to communicate, as well as evidence of activity and willingness to collaborate on this wonderful practice experiment. This is totally unmanageable. I promise you, plenty of attacks (probably a majority) would get placed with no statement on the forums, and the thread would immediately go to 10+ pages of 'why you attack me?' QQ, so no one could find anything relevant to their own corp. I take it you've seen Fight Club? Those guys are really going hard; they don't look the same afterwards. That's not what PFC is like at the moment. Attacks are rare - right now 15 of 24 districts are at full clones. When people do attack, nothing is at stake, so people aren't willing to lose 15 proto suits throwing themselves at a well defended objective like they do in PC proper. Afterwards everything goes back to how it was. I like YDubbs' idea. PFC has real fights with real consequences, like the rest of MH does, just between corps that don't own land elsewhere (either new corps or vet corps that are getting back on their feet). PFC corps would have to defend their land against each other and against corps who don't hold any land. With that system there's no need for any communication about the intent of an attack. This is planetary conquest, the intent is conquest. AE, RND, etc would only get involved if PFC land was taken by a corp with land outside PFC, or if a PFC corp took more than the maximum number of districts (probably 2). The vast majority of district transfers would be handled by the PFC corps themselves and the other smaller corps that want to be there, through the crucible of war. Isn't that how it should be?
that's how it used to be......
attacks would come and go, activity monitored but no one interfered unless a public post with proof was made stating an issue that didn't coincide with rules... ringers/clones outside oddeluf etc.
full public disclosure is absolutely required for all things PFC related. If it truly is a community made/policed etc etc planet, then there should be complete transparency. this would include when people move in or out.
none of that has happened in some time, and thus half the planet is suffering from raging wildfires
Common Sense and Logic are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
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