why does an established corp have a PFC district. Whats wrong with using one of your 23 districts to practice with?

1. Corps who are smaller or not as experienced as us can attack us to see how those things are going, they'll get a challenge and if they ask, we will play to a certain dergree how they asked us to play. So that's good training on their side.
2. UPS too does have new members who need training and we often put them into PFC matches. Not against the big and known corps, we want to beat them, but against the unknown once.
So, your arguments have truth in them, but they are a little bit onesided

Hooray! There is finally someone willing to light the match and thin that welfare program out. I hope some of the larger corps back you guys up on this, if you face any type of retaliation that is. Good luck to ya! +1

Thank you, for that. I do agree with you on several points. However all I ask is that you trust our judgement for now until we figure out what to do with it. We already have some idea on what we are going to do with it but the final negotiations have not been made yet. Pradox is a huge supporter of pfc and pfc has helped us out immensely. We still have pfc battles pretty much everyday and we will continue to have pfc battles even if we lose our pfc district.

Pradox has helped several other corps get pfc districts in the past and we will want to continue to do what we can to help friends of pradox that we see with potential.

Regulating and policing oddeluf is a major time commitment. Get a grip on it and evict the squatter, and next thing get ridiculed for being a 'bully'

Keep it simple. Make simple rules even illiterate rhesus monkeys with glaucoma in 1 eye can understand.

Then enforce it.

passive policing is what allowed PFC to get where it currently is

I disagree with this. I was once told. "pfc? noobs vs noobs? pffft how are they supposed to get any better? "

Fact is, people do not like to lose. Alot of corps havea habit of only fighting weaker or same level opponents. This will not improve their gungame. While I believe that smaller newer corps should have a pfc district to train their guys, I also believe that they should not get a false perception of pc by having it on easy mode. There needs to be incentive for stronger corps to attack pfc districts without flipping them. Also smaller corps might fear attacking larger corps because they are afraid of causing a war that they cannot handle.

One solution is to have a couple of select corps there to actively attack everyone on pfc or be available to be attacked without fear by the smaller corporations. Pradox may still continue to fight pfc after we lose our pfc district but we wont be fielding an A team. We will be there to train our newer guys.

lol if u think we are farming ISK...we have enough ;)

UPS used this PFC district how it should been used. We had battles every week against new corps and also against vet corps.
We always followed the rules.

And we allways tried to play only with UPS members. Because we want to make sure, all of our members have the chance to play in a PC.


There are a lot of other corps which are not using the PFC district correctly....



Have fun with the district...

one of the good things about pfc is that the districts generate clones, I have known smaller indie corps that have gone bankrupt trying to get into pc.

And we are the only corp on Oddeluf which are in PC since the starting?
Come on, thats bs...;)


We have lost a lot of players to lag and other bs in Dust and we recruit a lot of new ones...thats the reason why we had this district...

I dont know if u are telling us the truth about the reason, but thats ok.

We will find an other solution to train our members...

hahahaha^^

i find it to be LOL that RND is judging other corps farming isk on PFC since you guys were on there for weeks after we asked you repeatedly to bounce, im glad you guys are taking the initiative in policing PFC though and im sure kujo would back me in saying we'd be glad to pass the torch of being the police to you.

really? Do i have to explain why im laughing about that bs?


We should all follow the rules of PFC.

U guys take our district and saying: ey, u are a "vet" corp and shouldnt be on the PFC. Im fine with this.
But right after that u saying: ey, we are only removing "not friendly" corps. And we are not policing...


Its ok ydubbs, do what u have to do...;)


Sad to see, that PFC is going this way.
U could have ask us if we leave PFC for a new corp ;)


Im out of here...:D

PS: Sry for my good english

We are probably moving out soon. Probably within a month or two because honestly it is expensive as hell to train there, but for us it has been worth it because of how much we have learned. As soon as our clone count generates any money we launch an attack to keep from farming, what ends up happening is we usually get about 2-7 million isk credit from whatever is sold off after the clone cap of 450 is reached and we move to attack then get attacked the next day and so on. We love the challenge of the constant attacks, but it is exhausting. I have watched our corp wallet get crushed over the past 3 months since we have been training as hard as we can. I feel like if we get off of PFC with a sale of the district, then for about a month save up our tax income, then launch an all out assault on whoever in the universe, maybe, just maybe we can get an outside district. We are really scared that their alliance members will beat the hell out of us immediately afterwards though, and return the district to whoever it is. I am not sure how this all plays out, but I love PFC. It has givin this game true meaning to me. Without it I would just be another blueberry out in the middle of nowhere tryin to steal your LAV.

That said, I am interested in this idea of the districts being able to be flipped. This way we may not have as big of fear to move out because we could just go back and take a district from someone on PFC, plus we would have to adapt to defending all maps. I see a lot of flaws, but a lot of benefits as well. I second that the bigger corps like Nyan San, UPS, and the likes should step aside for more indie corps. I mean if we are already thinking of it, what the hell are you guys doing there? Move out so the noobs can get a little fighting in.



Soulja I think you may have this mixed up as we have been in several battles with Hellstorm recently, and their clone count is hardly ever maxed out, plus we just attacked them 2 days ago and there is another battle planned shortly. Also they do not have an outsidse district (although I'm sure they will soon), I know these guys and they aren't abusing this planet I assure you.

I fixed your original post for you.

I'm getting utterly fed up with the massive amount of pomp and circumstance people infuse into these absolutely asinine posts. You wanted ISK and you wanted districts. So be it, you got it. Ruining PFC in the process is the price you pay, but own up to it.

If you felt otherwise, you would have contacted UPS, ROFL, or anyone really about UPS's activity on PFC. Activity which has been as frequent as possible considering the horrendous lack of EUTZ targets and the debilitating effect that PC lag has on European corporations in particular.

Instead you shoved your face in without a care nor a word nor a thought towards the consequences. That's avarice at its finest.

If you had actually taken time to look, you would find that you just took the PFC district from the only German corporation in PC- a corporation that has survived not only the brutally flawed game mechanics which we've endured for months, but also suffered more acutely at the hands of the latency issues than practically anyone else. You would find that you had taken the district from a corporation which, for more than 4 months, hasn't had another district to their name because of these circumstances.

Good job on making it harder for an entire part of the community to participate in PC.


These posts fly around here, and all they're about is corporations acting like boys instead of men. If you were men, you'd own up to the real motivations of your actions and deal with the consequences. Instead the message is insipid and cowardly.

True story- Nobody hates you for being greedy and self-interested. That's New Eden. What can get people to dislike you is lying to their faces about how noble your intentions are in the universe where nobility is a fairy tale.

+1. PFC would work better if it was a live fire zone for corps that can't (yet) compete in MH proper. Anyone could flip a district there provided:

1. They didn't own any districts in MH proper.
2. They didn't already own a PFC district.
3. They didn't use any ringers (not sure if alliance members should count).

This way PFC would operate more like the 'fight club' ideal:

- Indie corps outside of PFC would have a strong incentive to attack as it would be the one way they could take a district without the threat of immediately losing it to a vet corp.
- Because of that PFC would be more self-regulating (no need for AE or whoever to come along and say 'use your clones or lose your district').
- District ownership would be decided by battles between indie corps, rather than by 'the powers that be'.
- As districts could be flipped the stakes would be higher, so it would give a truer PC experience than current PFC.

EDIT - My plan is a bit different from yours, because I don't think any corp should be able to take more than 1 PFC district. If they could, you'd get midrank corps with no land outside PFC that would take 5 or 6 PFC districts and farm them for the rest of eternity. There should be a reason to want to move beyond PFC, and that reason should be to own more than 1 district.

Looool! All I hear is blablabla. And not even consistent blablabla. It's just "today this, tomorrow that". Now you just nullified the reason for taking our district. Pathetic

Actually I wasn't as clear as I should have been. Number 1 should be 'they DON'T own any districts in MH proper'. I'd have no problem at all with a vet corp that has no districts now but once did taking a PFC district. So we agree on that point.

Regarding the maximum number of PFC districts held by one corp, I would worry that some quite capable corps would be tempted to farm 2 PFC districts rather than enter MH proper and lose everything. But it does introduce a nice dynamic in that PFC corps could then use their district clones rather than clone packs to attack, which is an important part of PC. So you've persuaded me .

So the revised version says a corp can hold a PFC district if:

1. They don't own any districts in MH proper.
2. They don't own more than one other PFC district.
3. They don't use ringers.

What is it now? Vets with PC-experience in or out?

In other words: Vet-Corps that are blue to them are in, even if with 2 PFC districts... all others are out. That looks very consistent to me.

Praise, all you sinners, the Angels of PFC come to the rescue of the community.

So, you are policing it... you are after all part of the community. Ok, generaly when someone is doing something that they don't want to be accused of doing, they repeatedly state that they are in fact.. not doing it. Marks of a guilty mind must deny, deny, deny. Or you could say RND wanted to change PFC and this is their way of doing it, after all it is so much easier to do something wrong rather than ask and be told no (dang it mommy I wanted my COOKIE NOW!).

Granted RND does have a very good point regarding PFC and its current rules. You aren't going to give it your best if you know in the end you will not lose your district. Having said that, PFC won't work that way either.

Realisticly the only way PFC would work is if every battle fought was in standard gear, this gives a semi even playing field with only skill points, gun game, and tactical skills to off set the balance. You would then need another planet for them to use advanced gear and yet another with proto, all following the same concept that you may or may not lose your district depending on how well you defend it. I shouldn't have to say it but I will, you can only hold districts (1-2 districts max) on one planet... so either you're on STD PFC, ADV PFC, or PROTO PFC. The tier system is the only way that a new corp can learn and earn his way into MH proper. This also would work for the vet corps that lost all their districts by giving them a place to retrain, help train some newbies, then get back out there to try and conqure MH again.

However, thats a lot of real estate that would have to be given up for the community. Plus, you would need a police force (which should be tribunal of veteran alliances) to police the PFC planets to insure that when a corp is clearly ready to move on, they move on.

Just an idea which will now be troll in ....

Sounds like RND wants to run PFC?

I always find it funny when you have a thread of people all in major corps which own 10+ districts outside PFC gather up and all agree that PFC doesn't benefit anyone.

I've been with PFC in one way or another for a very long time, since it's inception. I've seen all the different policing styles employed so far, and my favorite, by far, was proposed by Mike Ruan of Pradox One: The community communicates with each other and polices themselves. For instance, someone took W-J-R's PFC district. FORIM attacked it, retook it, and granted it back to W-J-R.

The reality is, a small number of players currently control the vast majority of the territory available, and due to terrible game mechanics, there's not a ton people can do about it. PFC is an opportunity for a lot of people to play without a drastically unmanageable financial investment. Many of you are in corps where you can't fathom the idea that two or three clone packs is a major financial investment that may take months to gather.

So these corps will take months to get their money to get in, probably lose a few along the way, but maybe get lucky, and finally take one. And two days later, Nyain San rolls around with their Asian-region server and lags them out through two matches in about 40 minutes.

.

Attacks are rare - right now 15 of 24 districts are at full clones. When people do attack, nothing is at stake, so people aren't willing to lose 15 proto suits throwing themselves at a well defended objective like they do in PC proper. Afterwards everything goes back to how it was.

I like YDubbs' idea. PFC has real fights with real consequences, like the rest of MH does, just between corps that don't own land elsewhere (either new corps or vet corps that are getting back on their feet). PFC corps would have to defend their land against each other and against corps who don't hold any land. With that system there's no need for any communication about the intent of an attack. This is planetary conquest, the intent is conquest.
?