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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10986	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:27:00 - [1] - Quote Quote: 'Grass is green on the other side of the fence before you hopped over and realized it was all spray painted.' -Some Random Person Okay onto the bones of the subject Rollover SP system. I know we all want it but do we 'really' want it? The fantasy that we could grind away that extra SP whenever we want instead of being leashed by the neck from week to week is a wonderful idea indeed. However, there are down sides to such system while a hard core cap week to week player may not notice this a semi casual might feel as if he's been further burdened that he may never catch up? End of match screen pops up and declares he has 2 million bonus SP to claim that he can only seemingly claim 2k at a time? The notion of grind sets in and in the end becomes a disheartening thing. A wall, a contributor to the http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_44938cf481_o.jpg syndrome and something that may just drive casual players away. With this in mind would still want the roll over system? How would you address the potential backfire? Can we reasonably introduce the system safely? Discuss. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 288	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:35:00 - [2] - Quote Only display the 'bonus SP remaining' value if it's under a certain threshold. The value is only relevant to me now because of the weekly cap. RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10986	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:39:00 - [3] - Quote Gorra Snell wrote: Only display the 'bonus SP remaining' value if it's under a certain threshold. The value is only relevant to me now because of the weekly cap. I don't think players are that stupid. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 288	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:40:00 - [4] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I don't think players are that stupid. Please clarify what you mean...seems like a non sequitor. RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game?
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 99	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:43:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Quote: 'Grass is green on the other side of the fence before you hopped over and realized it was all spray painted.' -Some Random Person Okay onto the bones of the subject Rollover SP system. I know we all want it but do we 'really' want it? The fantasy that we could grind away that extra SP whenever we want instead of being leashed by the neck from week to week is a wonderful idea indeed. However, there are down sides to such system while a hard core cap week to week player may not notice this a semi casual might feel as if he's been further burdened that he may never catch up? End of match screen pops up and declares he has 2 million bonus SP to claim that he can only seemingly claim 2k at a time? The notion of grind sets in and in the end becomes a disheartening thing. A wall, a contributor to the http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_44938cf481_o.jpg syndrome and something that may just drive casual players away. With this in mind would still want the roll over system? How would you address the potential backfire? Can we reasonably introduce the system safely? Discuss. I think I need a more detailed description of your specific implementation of the "skillpoint rollover" idea. I've heard of a few and not sure which you are speaking to. On the assumption that you just bank bonus SP for a future week or somesuch thing when your cap is recycled, then I do not support this. It encourages people to play a lot in the short term, but then sti back and not play as much later on and then the numbers of people available for matches slowly dwindles and people have less incentive to keep playing regularly.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10989	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:44:00 - [6] - Quote Gorra Snell wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I don't think players are that stupid. Please clarify what you mean...seems like a non sequitor. The bottom line that players will always find a way to use something the designers had not intended is the same kind of thinking that leads to suspicion that something is not up to where it should be. Lets say you're totally awesome pro player the sort that gets 15k sp a fight you know you only had 150k sp for the week to claim left but no matter how many awesome battles you have it still floats at 150k. He is first going to suspect he is not claiming any of the bonus SP, then he is going to find out the truth, that the 150k display is an absolute fabrication. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
HYENAKILLER X TEAM SHINOBI 358	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:48:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Quote: 'Grass is green on the other side of the fence before you hopped over and realized it was all spray painted.' -Some Random Person Okay onto the bones of the subject Rollover SP system. I know we all want it but do we 'really' want it? The fantasy that we could grind away that extra SP whenever we want instead of being leashed by the neck from week to week is a wonderful idea indeed. However, there are down sides to such system while a hard core cap week to week player may not notice this a semi casual might feel as if he's been further burdened that he may never catch up? End of match screen pops up and declares he has 2 million bonus SP to claim that he can only seemingly claim 2k at a time? The notion of grind sets in and in the end becomes a disheartening thing. A wall, a contributor to the http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_44938cf481_o.jpg syndrome and something that may just drive casual players away. With this in mind would still want the roll over system? How would you address the potential backfire? Can we reasonably introduce the system safely? Discuss. False. what will really happen is new alt accounts when people catch on to the idea. You are welcome for my leadership
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10989	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:49:00 - [8] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: I think I need a more detailed description of your specific implementation of the "skillpoint rollover" idea. I've heard of a few and not sure which you are speaking to. On the assumption that you just bank bonus SP for a future week or somesuch thing when your cap is recycled, then I do not support this. It encourages people to play a lot in the short term, but then sti back and not play as much later on and then the numbers of people available for matches slowly dwindles and people have less incentive to keep playing regularly. I did not detail it my vision for a purpose. This is after all just a means of discussion, but you insist let's say for the sake of the conversation a system that captures some of the SP bonus cap normally lost and adds it to next weeks bonus. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5732	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:51:00 - [9] - Quote Better than seeing their bonus SP exhausted and getting 1000 SP for a good match. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 288	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:51:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Gorra Snell wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I don't think players are that stupid. Please clarify what you mean...seems like a non sequitor. The bottom line that players will always find a way to use something the designers had not intended is the same kind of thinking that leads to suspicion that something is not up to where it should be. Lets say you're totally awesome pro player the sort that gets 15k sp a fight you know you only had 150k sp for the week to claim left but no matter how many awesome battles you have it still floats at 150k. He is first going to suspect he is not claiming any of the bonus SP, then he is going to find out the truth, that the 150k display is an absolute fabrication. Oh, I see what you're saying. I'm by no means suggesting put up a false value...rather, removing the label and value completely from the end of match screen for players who have greater than 150k bonus sp available. Out of sight, out of mind. RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game?

HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4044	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:53:00 - [11] - Quote Simply put YES! If I was. A new person playing I would at least look at the20 mil Sp available as a challenge and the hopes if I tried hard enough I might catch up. As delusional as it may be. Please don't over think it for the masses allowing new players the glimmer of hope of catching up is a great thing!
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 169	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:54:00 - [12] - Quote I am of the belief that there should be a limited rollover or even a cap to how much stored SP is available. If you don't play for months than yes you lose something. If you miss a week, or two, or even three, due to other obligations, life, other games, than so be it you can recover and play to get that SP back. I believe you should be rewarded for playing the game and I believe that yes if you have been here from the beginning and went through the growing pains that it should have some value to it. Don't get me wrong I want a rollover SP system but I do not want an unlimited rollover system that provides no consequence for not playing for months on end.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 765	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:55:00 - [13] - Quote Tiericide + no cap (Best solution if done right) OR Laurent's Idea !
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10989	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:57:00 - [14] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Simply put YES! If I was. A new person playing I would at least look at the20 mil Sp available as a challenge and the hopes if I tried hard enough I might catch up. As delusional as it may be. Please don't over think it for the masses allowing new players the glimmer of hope of catching up is a great thing! But lets say you started with 20 mil cap you grind grind grin and get it down to 19 mil, then decide okay time to take a break and play this newest game. You beat that game come back and now you're at 22 million untapped SP you are locked away from. This quickly turns that glimmer to hope to gloom of doom of not even being able to 'catch' up with even yourself which can compound the entire issue in playing 'catch' up with the pro players. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5534	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:00:00 - [15] - Quote One way you can go about this is to institute a one week grace period after the end of the weekly cap cycle. Any bonus SP remaining gets put on stasis for that one week grace period giving that player a chance to finally cap out. If that player fails to cap out the remaining SP during that one week grace period, whatever SP remains disappears forever. The one week grace period can work along side the normal weekly cap for the following week. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Skihids Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 2470	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:03:00 - [16] - Quote If you are concerned about showing a large bonus pool number on the EOM screen move it to the Character screen page. People could still find it, but wouldn't have it pushed in front of their faces each match. The EOM screen adds bonus the way it does today, but if it runs out of bonus it tells you "Out of bonus SP".
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10989	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:06:00 - [17] - Quote Skihids wrote: If you are concerned about showing a large bonus pool number on the EOM screen move it to the Character screen page. People could still find it, but wouldn't have it pushed in front of their faces each match. The EOM screen adds bonus the way it does today, but if it runs out of bonus it tells you "Out of bonus SP". I don't think hiding it would be a viable solution either. Players are intelligent enough to find it, and then complain about why was the counter removed from the EOM. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
Morathi III Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:07:00 - [18] - Quote The system of eve online ( game i never played ) seem better to me only passive SP. In this game hardcore player can have more SP, more isk and more experience. Always make me laugh when people think their so good when they have such an advantage. Alot of ppl will day welcome to New Eden.... But generally the newberries just lesft the game after few week due to 2 things: disadvantage by gear & SP and because the game its too much of a grind NOT because of the so what skilled player
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3203	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:09:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I don't think players are that stupid. Iron, you've been here long enough to know that was a futile statement.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4045	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:09:00 - [20] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Simply put YES! If I was. A new person playing I would at least look at the20 mil Sp available as a challenge and the hopes if I tried hard enough I might catch up. As delusional as it may be. Please don't over think it for the masses allowing new players the glimmer of hope of catching up is a great thing! But lets say you started with 20 mil cap you grind grind grin and get it down to 19 mil, then decide okay time to take a break and play this newest game. You beat that game come back and now you're at 22 million untapped SP you are locked away from. This quickly turns that glimmer to hope to gloom of doom of not even being able to 'catch' up with even yourself which can compound the entire issue in playing 'catch' up with the pro players. There are many players who do play regularly and never cap out. that bonus SP is going to keep growing and growing. Huh? That makes no sense why would you or anyone tell me or any player how he might feel about having the opportunity to catchup? Right now you are telling players you will never be able to catch up . how is that working out for player retention? You are saying that you would be concerned that the average player could not handle the fact he has a lot of playing to do to catch up. Or that if we didn't have it like we didnt tell him like we do now he is too stupid to find out that he can never catch up?

Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 248	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:10:00 - [21] - Quote Just bury the number on the character page. The EOM screen would have no number, just a huge flashy green sign that says "Bonus SP remaining! YAY!" The little SP spinner would show how much bonus they got that round as it does now. I get what you're saying Saber wolf, but think about what they did with the "current player count" stat on the entry screen. You and I both know it's bullshit but the average guy has no idea. CCP knew what they were doing when they did that, and they know how to shuffle numbers around to setup the skinner box correctly.
Rogue Saint Science For Death 567	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:12:00 - [22] - Quote As someone who caps 3 chars every week I doubt I will be affected by a rollover system. I do take holidays though and would be happy to find I have not "missed" my SP pool and can then grind it at my leisure! If I took a break for a month or so and came back to a couple of million SP that would be cool too, because getting a decent reward after each match makes it more worth while. It would also be my choice if I wanted to group up with the lads to do a grind marathon, in fact it may even force people to disappear for a little while just to come back and meet up to do the grind! It also would be good for attaining that specific level of skill/suit... Play casually for a few weeks, get your SP pool up, do a grind fest with mates, get that skill/suit/weapon. As I said before, I cap out every week, so would be nice to have the option not to grind and lose SP as I can pick up the slack later. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka [The whiny Scout]
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3203	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:13:00 - [23] - Quote P.S. People would complain about a rollover system as well, The Dust community always finds a reason to complain but rarely complain over things that actually need addressing.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8255	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:13:00 - [24] - Quote I think that's a superfluous problem at best. That pool is a reward, not a punishment, it's a pool that you can draw from at your leisure. It's been a long time since I've played and I can't remember how it worked anymore, but Starcraft 2 had a rollover system for their ladder and it worked great. I know it's not the same thing, but I never felt pressured to play, and I would always know what I had left in my bonus pool. They also had a form of rested XP, which is important for when you offer rollover SP. The rested XP lets you claim that massive pool faster than normal, yet you can still only claim as much SP as you have. ISK / Vids / Stream
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1563	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:13:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Quote: 'Grass is green on the other side of the fence before you hopped over and realized it was all spray painted.' -Some Random Person Okay onto the bones of the subject Rollover SP system. I know we all want it but do we 'really' want it? The fantasy that we could grind away that extra SP whenever we want instead of being leashed by the neck from week to week is a wonderful idea indeed. However, there are down sides to such system while a hard core cap week to week player may not notice this a semi casual might feel as if he's been further burdened that he may never catch up? End of match screen pops up and declares he has 2 million bonus SP to claim that he can only seemingly claim 2k at a time? The notion of grind sets in and in the end becomes a disheartening thing. A wall, a contributor to the http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_44938cf481_o.jpg syndrome and something that may just drive casual players away. With this in mind would still want the roll over system? How would you address the potential backfire? Can we reasonably introduce the system safely? Discuss. Yes people are never happy Tell people to stfu and deal with it lol Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Happy Violentime L0ST PR0FITS 146	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:14:00 - [26] - Quote It would take approx 2 months to AFK a new character up to 33mil SP? A no-lifer could do it in just over a month NB. these figures, like most on the forums were pulled out of my ass
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1398	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:17:00 - [27] - Quote The idea makes sense to me. People want the rollover system because they feel that what we have now is too grindy. So we implement rollover and suddenly those people are going to have a giant pool of bonus SP that they'll never be able to use up. Now they feel that the game is more grindy than ever. Just hiding the stat isn't going to change that.
DeadlyAztec11 2476	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:17:00 - [28] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: Just bury the number on the character page. The EOM screen would have no number, just a huge flashy green sign that says "Bonus SP remaining! YAY!" The little SP spinner would show how much bonus they got that round as it does now. I get what you're saying Saber wolf, but think about what they did with the "current player count" stat on the entry screen. You and I both know it's bullshit but the average guy has no idea. CCP knew what they were doing when they did that, and they know how to shuffle numbers around to setup the skinner box correctly. Exactly, CCP is not above trickery, I am not sure why now it is different. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 470	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:20:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Simply put YES! If I was. A new person playing I would at least look at the20 mil Sp available as a challenge and the hopes if I tried hard enough I might catch up. As delusional as it may be. Please don't over think it for the masses allowing new players the glimmer of hope of catching up is a great thing! But lets say you started with 20 mil cap you grind grind grin and get it down to 19 mil, then decide okay time to take a break and play this newest game. You beat that game come back and now you're at 22 million untapped SP you are locked away from. This quickly turns that glimmer to hope to gloom of doom of not even being able to 'catch' up with even yourself which can compound the entire issue in playing 'catch' up with the pro players. There are many players who do play regularly and never cap out. that bonus SP is going to keep growing and growing. Moot point..... If a Player hops on an MMORPG & sees the T5 Gear & goes "Well....no point in trying to play this SH*T!!!", then they were not meant to play MMOs in the 1st place. I prefer no Max SP Rollover for obvious reasons (Devalued Investment, Booster Abuse, etc.), but I assure you there is no such thing as an MMOer hopping on & having a visual representation of the Grind ahead, especially in a "Grow Wide, not Tall" Title. Your PoV as a Wannabee Pro Casual is excessively purposeless. Go Post in the Locker Room or somewhere your incorrigible ignorance & misinformation may not be shunned
Skihids Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 2471	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:24:00 - [30] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: The idea makes sense to me. People want the rollover system because they feel that what we have now is too grindy. So we implement rollover and suddenly those people are going to have a giant pool of bonus SP that they'll never be able to use up. Now they feel that the game is more grindy than ever. Just hiding the stat isn't going to change that. The pressure comes from the need to grind the points NOW, BEFORE TUESDAY NIGHT! A large pool can give you the feeling that there is no cap and you can play as much or a little as you want without fear of losing something. Remember, it's the feeling of loss that hurts. People are loss averse and that's the mechanism used in a number of P2W schemes such as displaying your winnings but making you pay to keep them. As long as the points accumulate and don't evaporate there won't be a feeling of loss.



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