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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10986
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Posted - 2013.12.03 19:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:'Grass is green on the other side of the fence before you hopped over and realized it was all spray painted.'
-Some Random Person
Okay onto the bones of the subject
Rollover SP system.
I know we all want it but do we 'really' want it?
The fantasy that we could grind away that extra SP whenever we want instead of being leashed by the neck from week to week is a wonderful idea indeed.
However, there are down sides to such system while a hard core cap week to week player may not notice this a semi casual might feel as if he's been further burdened that he may never catch up? End of match screen pops up and declares he has 2 million bonus SP to claim that he can only seemingly claim 2k at a time? The notion of grind sets in and in the end becomes a disheartening thing. A wall, a contributor to the http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_44938cf481_o.jpg syndrome and something that may just drive casual players away.
With this in mind would still want the roll over system?
How would you address the potential backfire?
Can we reasonably introduce the system safely?
Discuss.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10986
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Posted - 2013.12.03 19:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gorra Snell wrote:Only display the 'bonus SP remaining' value if it's under a certain threshold. The value is only relevant to me now because of the weekly cap.
I don't think players are that stupid.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10989
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Posted - 2013.12.03 19:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gorra Snell wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
I don't think players are that stupid.
Please clarify what you mean...seems like a non sequitor.
The bottom line that players will always find a way to use something the designers had not intended is the same kind of thinking that leads to suspicion that something is not up to where it should be. Lets say you're totally awesome pro player the sort that gets 15k sp a fight you know you only had 150k sp for the week to claim left but no matter how many awesome battles you have it still floats at 150k. He is first going to suspect he is not claiming any of the bonus SP, then he is going to find out the truth, that the 150k display is an absolute fabrication.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10989
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Posted - 2013.12.03 19:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:
I think I need a more detailed description of your specific implementation of the "skillpoint rollover" idea. I've heard of a few and not sure which you are speaking to.
On the assumption that you just bank bonus SP for a future week or somesuch thing when your cap is recycled, then I do not support this. It encourages people to play a lot in the short term, but then sti back and not play as much later on and then the numbers of people available for matches slowly dwindles and people have less incentive to keep playing regularly.
I did not detail it my vision for a purpose. This is after all just a means of discussion, but you insist let's say for the sake of the conversation a system that captures some of the SP bonus cap normally lost and adds it to next weeks bonus.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.12.03 19:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:Simply put YES!
If I was. A new person playing I would at least look at the20 mil Sp available as a challenge and the hopes if I tried hard enough I might catch up. As delusional as it may be.
Please don't over think it for the masses allowing new players the glimmer of hope of catching up is a great thing!
But lets say you started with 20 mil cap you grind grind grin and get it down to 19 mil, then decide okay time to take a break and play this newest game. You beat that game come back and now you're at 22 million untapped SP you are locked away from. This quickly turns that glimmer to hope to gloom of doom of not even being able to 'catch' up with even yourself which can compound the entire issue in playing 'catch' up with the pro players.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.12.03 20:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Skihids wrote:If you are concerned about showing a large bonus pool number on the EOM screen move it to the Character screen page. People could still find it, but wouldn't have it pushed in front of their faces each match.
The EOM screen adds bonus the way it does today, but if it runs out of bonus it tells you "Out of bonus SP".
I don't think hiding it would be a viable solution either. Players are intelligent enough to find it, and then complain about why was the counter removed from the EOM.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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10995
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Posted - 2013.12.03 20:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:The idea makes sense to me. People want the rollover system because they feel that what we have now is too grindy. So we implement rollover and suddenly those people are going to have a giant pool of bonus SP that they'll never be able to use up. Now they feel that the game is more grindy than ever. Just hiding the stat isn't going to change that. That's why you have rested SP to help speed along the process of getting back missed points. The pool would also only grow massive if they weren't playing regularly. If they play regularly, they're using up that SP, the pool barely fills. The pool is just there for your convenience, allowing you to draw from it when it's best for you. You could even introduce boosters that don't raise your SP cap like normal boosters do, but they greatly accelerate how quickly you get them, for people who don't want to work through a huge pool of SP on an alt or something.
Before it was called rest EXP in world of warcraft, the bonus system was just that a bonus system, it heavily set into the notion that once this EXP bonus ran out that playing any further was greatly hampered and discourage play after two or so hours and was the most absolutely hated feature in the game.
Blizzard then aptly renamed it as Rest Exp, and changed nothing of the numbers and became a loved thing.
Dust 514 doesn't have this opportunity because the bonus sp and post bonus sp amounts are very far apart in terms of progression. Thus doing simple psychology trick is not going to work with roll over because soon as you eat up all of the roll over you're left with the slap on the wrist again that is dust 514's special way of saying 'you been playing too much you should stop now'.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
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Posted - 2013.12.03 20:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
God Hates Lags wrote:The bigger problem to my mind is that this will give zero incentive to log on each week. Lots of players currently playing will just quit since they can always come back once the game gets better and get a full amount of SP. Also passive SP will matter less, so it will be easy enough for a payer to just start infinite alts, grind out the minimum for a spec and unlock every skill in the game over multiple accounts. In a matter of weeks.
Personally I support a daily SP cap instead of a weekly one. More flexible and still gives an incentive to play.
This in itself is a bad thing from players point of view, the sake of logging to get the exp is a bad trend, but making the gaining of exp itself an enjoyable experience is a whole nother subject.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11008
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
I am not sure what's lower? The comments some of these folks are making or the intellect behind failing to understand that there does need to be a careful consideration if ever to design such system. That the overall objective of this thread is to stir conversation that may not only recognize additional faults but conclude to potential fixes and considerations to take in while implementing such system.
A haphazardly implemented good idea no matter how good at first on paper will ever be just as effective as poorly made ideas.
I mean look at all the complaints about the SP events and the irate feeling behind most of them. There is a common theme there, a theme that I hate to say it is exceptionally no different from the roll over SP system if implemented in such manner.
I mean why else would I start a thread over the subject now?
is it because I have a chance to suggest the system?
am I actually meeting resistance from the developers?
I know inquiring minds would like to know but alas. I shall retain those cards in my possession and not play them.
Call troll all you want but trolls only seek hated responses, I am just fishing for good talks here.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11008
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well here is another bone to throw into the pile, Someone mentioned monetizing this pool, I am somewhat against this under various types of offerings (like doubling the pool) but I am willing to break over it provided that its a fair purchase.
With this bone in the mix what are you guys thoughts to it or how would you implement or not?
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11022
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Who needs a rollover system if you dont have a cap.
Cap serves no purpose other than to hold back the hardcore and increase the grind of the casuals. Cap also gives CCP money because it allows people to get additional SP every cap period. This could be still be attained through boosters. Not sure if it would increase or decease booster consumption with no cap. I would bank on increase of 30 day boosters.
Remove the cap, solve all the problems. Put a ceiling on the amount of SP you can have banked (total amount of SP to get all skills to 5 + 1mil) so that when new skills come out, vets cant just have a bank of SP waiting to allocate.
Could also implement an hourly bonus daily instead of log in bonus. For one hour every day all SP earned in battle is doubled. Would drive at least hourly daily play instead of logging in and logging out.
The truth is, after the first 10-15 mil or so, people start branching into another suit/role/weapon. So it would only allow people to become more flexible in their suits and always allow people to have a lot more fun. Running the same suit for months and months gets reeaaallly boring, and frustrating.
Going capless does have its appeals and it own set of problems mind you and would nullify roll over system to that of a rest sp system instead.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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11023
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Going capless would basically be the worst thing, rewarding no lifers and punishing those who can't be plugged into the game at all times.
Aye and itself is a burnout as well.
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