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Why people who don't want respecs don't want them.

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Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 993	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:59:00 - [61] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: And no, there is no room for negotiation. No one needs to spec into more guns that fill the same niche than any suit in the game can fit at once. If only this were true, but that's the point. You start with Lasers. Okay, hit collision in 1.6 makes semiautomatics very powerful and the Laser hard to stay alive with. You spec into TARs for the long range and scope, both being better than the Scrambler. The Scrambler gets a 30m range extension and the TAR gets a 5m nerf, while the Rail Rifle also is added. Now what? Spec into Scrambler Rifles, everyone complains the range is OP, it gets nerfed to 45m from the 78m. Spec into Rail Rifles. CCP decides to make the spool up time 1 second instead and increase the kick and it's a big turd. The cycle continues. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1303	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:08:00 - [62] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. So what's your view on those that put points into vehicles? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1225	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:09:00 - [63] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: And no, there is no room for negotiation. No one needs to spec into more guns that fill the same niche than any suit in the game can fit at once. If only this were true, but that's the point. You start with Lasers. Okay, hit collision in 1.6 makes semiautomatics very powerful and the Laser hard to stay alive with. You spec into TARs for the long range and scope, both being better than the Scrambler. The Scrambler gets a 30m range extension and the TAR gets a 5m nerf, while the Rail Rifle also is added. Now what? Spec into Scrambler Rifles, everyone complains the range is OP, it gets nerfed to 45m from the 78m. Spec into Rail Rifles. CCP decides to make the spool up time 1 second instead and increase the kick and it's a big turd. The cycle continues. Much of that is pointless conjecture... Also, one thing I'd love to stress. You don't spec into tactical assalt rifles. You spec into Assault Rifles... and get TAR as a bonus. If you didn't spec into the weapon tree that is specifically denoted as the tactical rifles, then it is no-one's fault but your own. Also, 1.6 made full autos more powerful. Technically, it didn't, it just made them as powerful as they were always programmed to be. If that was higher than they were supposed to be... only the DEVs can say. Shields as Weapons
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 26	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:10:00 - [64] - Quote Most of the respec argument comes from balancing issues in the game not from the question of should Respec be allowed. Weapon and play styles becomes unusable is a balancing problem.(assuming this isn't what happen to Alex) Your character Alex did 1of 2 things to create his issue 1. He put in far to many sp into something to try it out. Level 1 is enough to get a feel for something. Anything more was in vain if he didn't like the play style. This is mostly because he was looking to win and not play the game 2. Alex decided to get instance gratification by buying cheaper skills and not grinding To get the higher tiers. Alex may streamline his skills after the respec. does that effect Bob yes in indirectly it does. How? 1. Alex can streamline his skills however that doesn't mean he will make good decisions. He still needs to put in time like Bob did looking over the skill tree. Who remembers this problem with the first respec? 2. By streamlining his skill Alex increases the chance of Bob playing against a specialized player. however this does not mean Alex spec into the " Rock" that beat Bob's scissors. Alex may of became Bob's paper and chose to remove points from said rock. What do respecs harm? CCP's ability to balance: a respec does not let them see the weapon's progression through the tiers. The flay lock comes to mind on this the proto version was OP however all flay lock took a hit maybe harder then they should of. 2. The meta game: with respecs allowed you will start to see only 2 play styles being used. You will have the current "rock" playstyle and a smaller population of "Paper" playstyle. The shear number of "rocks" on the battlefield will make scissor an unusable option due to the lack of "Papers" on the field. 3. Versatility : due to the constant respecs having the ability to play as all 3 types (paper,rock,scissor) during one match loses its usefulness as you will continue to fight people with huge skillpoints in 1 of 2 play styles. You will not be a strong enough paper to beat rock, your not a strong enough rock to beat rock, and like in 2. Scissor is irrelevant. 4. Immersion: simply being able to change on the fly lowers the emotional connection to the character as you do not have a define roll. With all of that said do I think we need a respec. No we don't. Should we get one. Yes, with the known vehicle changes as well as the changes in rifle ranges. Combined with the fact that ccp has said the scout suits are being tested and the heavy are near completion. This game is about to be turned upside down. With such vast changes and hopefully a good amount of balancing the game should finally start to see defined roles. So now is the time to allow the players to remake their play style choice, they can choose the cqc ar or the ranged rr. They can decide to run the faster minmatar heavy or slower armar scout with more hitpoints If ccp decided to do this along with balancing then the dream of a paper rock scissor game will finally start to come to light.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1225	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:12:00 - [65] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. So what's your view on those that put points into vehicles? That is a partial respec. They deserve those points because those skills will literally not exist after 1.7. Look at the first page, and check out who a Jack is. Shields as Weapons
Subject 36 The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 11	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:21:00 - [66] - Quote I still don't see why Bob is upset. Alex could now spend his skill points carefully. Alex should should STFU and not be upset for a thing that didn't affect him in any negative way but just being an angry little s***. The Logi That Saves.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1892	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:29:00 - [67] - Quote I say no to respecs cause those who maxed out flaylocks knew they where overpowered should stay with the consequences in abusing it till it got nerfed. Or the other example when the caldari logistic recieved a nerf i can honestly say that 99% of the people woulda had instantly respecced into a other suit. Respecs are just a tool to avoid the nerfbat. On the vehicle skilltree its udnerstandable due to the removal of various vehicles and a total revamp how vehicle, modules turrets are going to perform and the addition off alot of new skills to it. You cant demand a partial respec only because the new weapons are going to be released (rail rifle+combat rifle) cause they where announced for quite a while and you could easy safe SP to get proto on day 1. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1303	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:38:00 - [68] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. So what's your view on those that put points into vehicles? That is a partial respec. They deserve those points because those skills will literally not exist after 1.7. Look at the first page, and check out who a Jack is. So what if those pilots don't want to use vehicles anymore, because everything about them is going to change? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1226	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:38:00 - [69] - Quote Subject 36 wrote: I still don't see why Bob is upset. Alex could now spend his skill points carefully. Alex should should STFU and not be upset for a thing that didn't affect him in any negative way but just being an angry little s***. Bob is upset because all his choices are rendered moot, and his better decision-making skills are made pointless. Alex got a candy instead of a whipping, while Bob got nothing. Shields as Weapons
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1261	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:48:00 - [70] - Quote Reasons For: Allows new players a chance to restart. Allows players a chance to try something new. Brings in new players. Brings back old players. Gear was nerfed. Unfinished racial line up. Gives new players the ability to compete. Reasons Against: Creates fotm. Creates the cycle of more respecs. Choices matter. Everyone starts the same and it should stay that way. New gear is easy to get into. It isn't fair to players who are just starting or hasn't started. Gear wasn't nerfed, it was balanced. You had the same choices we did. New players don't know about respecs. Only a few players will return because the line up is still unfinished. I think that a full refund of SP is bad for the game and here are my reasons. New players do have the same choices if not more than we did when we started and although we did, so they should isn't a valid argument players should have to make hard choices that matter. If a player reads then most of the time the choices may not be the best at that moment but it usually helps that player somewhere. Is it fair to a person who has been playing for a week to have their SP refunded at the same time as everyone else? I only have 13-14 M SP and I have been playing since closed beta, is it fair to me that a person with 20 M SP have their SP refunded? They would have the twice the SP at their respec as I did. Choices do matter in New Eden but only to an extent. After a month or so of gaming a player should have one specialized skill branch or most of the core skilled up. If you aren't smart enough to stop putting SP into a skill when you know that it is very limited or broken then I don't know what to tell you. Sorry you didn't get what you wanted but that is life so saying a respec is deserved isn't valid because that excuse can be used for any other new item released. New gear is easy enough to get into and learn if you like. Everyone always says that this or that weapon isn't competitive unless it's proto and you are correct because proto is the best and borders on being OP. I think that CCP should only refund removed skills because anything else is unfair to every player in one way or another and the only way to keep it fair is by only refunding removed skills. I realize that some of the gear that we wanted wasn't released when the game was but that doesn't give us a right to a respec. That argument can be used for 100 different items CCP has talked about. People also say that their item was nerfed until it was useless, if you didn't know it was OP while playing the game then you are beyond help. The only things that are going to bring players back and hold them here is content and more content. The problem is in how things are released. Working in uncharted territory is difficult and releasing new items into the game is difficult. Introducing new items is hard on the game and players. People who are smart will have lots of SP saved and done the math to figure out what is the best. Day one they proto that branch of the tree and the weapon is instantly OP to most people. People call OP on the forums and a nerf is inbound, all the while those same people are skilling into that weapon to "stay competitive". When the nerf lands it hits them hard and their fit is useless and they blame CCP for killing the weapon. So they need a respec. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1226	Posted - 2013.11.22 06:48:00 - [71] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. So what's your view on those that put points into vehicles? That is a partial respec. They deserve those points because those skills will literally not exist after 1.7. Look at the first page, and check out who a Jack is. So what if those pilots don't want to use vehicles anymore, because everything about them is going to change? It's somewhat unfair for them to be able to respec them into Infantry, but it would no doubt be ridiculously overcomplicated to lock those SP to vehicles. The vehicle pilots are getting a lucky break, and if they wish to join the ground-pounders then fine. I personally always felt that Vehicles were a mid-game thing, something to aspire to later on after you set your core. In either case, if they no longer have trust in their vehicles, let them abandon them. There are just as many problems on the Infantry side. Besides, they get to see the new vehicles before they have to start putting points back. That's pretty darn fair. Shields as Weapons
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 112	Posted - 2013.11.22 07:31:00 - [72] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. Sounds like a Viagra commercial . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1304	Posted - 2013.11.22 08:01:00 - [73] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. So what's your view on those that put points into vehicles? That is a partial respec. They deserve those points because those skills will literally not exist after 1.7. Look at the first page, and check out who a Jack is. So what if those pilots don't want to use vehicles anymore, because everything about them is going to change? It's somewhat unfair for them to be able to respec them into Infantry, but it would no doubt be ridiculously overcomplicated to lock those SP to vehicles. The vehicle pilots are getting a lucky break, and if they wish to join the ground-pounders then fine. I personally always felt that Vehicles were a mid-game thing, something to aspire to later on after you set your core. In either case, if they no longer have trust in their vehicles, let them abandon them. There are just as many problems on the Infantry side. Besides, they get to see the new vehicles before they have to start putting points back. That's pretty darn fair. Jesus christ, how many times do I have to say it? This isn't a flavor of the month thing, or wanting a respec for the sake of it. They're removing turrets, modules, skills and hulls. They're changing activation and cooldown times for modules. They're changing the effectiveness of modules. For some pilots, honestly, it just won't be worth it anymore due to the changes infantry forced on CCP. We make tanks work now, and infantry doesn't like it, because they STILL complain that vehicles are OP. Don't you see, that's it's CCP changing this, completely, and not looking for an easy out? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Infamous Erich Inf4m0us 41	Posted - 2013.11.22 08:33:00 - [74] - Quote But what does bob do when he has everything perfect then they do a massive nerf and make the class worthless start over again? all that time spent on boosters to gain more sp was wasted in a sense besides from core skills and in a game where sp is everything and takes a long time to get the amount needed something needs to be done. Closed Beta Vet Shield Tank Vet Bring back my Sagaris
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 252	Posted - 2013.11.22 08:35:00 - [75] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. Well and you have Hank, Hank followed basicly Bob's way of spending SP carefully spending his SP into things that cater his playstyle. But month after he spents his SP CCP decides that Hanks way is not what they wanted and changed the Skills Hank has his SP invested in. Now Hank has spend millions of SP into something that he no longer can enjoy. In that case CCP would help Hank to undo a Decision that CCP made for him...
The Shadow Prince Harimau Malaya. 3	Posted - 2013.11.22 08:46:00 - [76] - Quote Im a Bob but I dont care if Alex gets a respec. Im not afraid of Alex coming at me with newly spent SP into better suits/weapons. If there is a Bob that is scared of an Alex then lets be honest that Bob is prolly a scrub. I could care less about respecs on my toon, i planned well (with help when i started) but i feel that a respec will help the player count go up, and thats the important thing.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 100	Posted - 2013.11.22 08:50:00 - [77] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. If by goodies you mean a BPO Vehicle or Proto Suit of our choice sure. Actually BPO of a Thales would be nice. "Do not underestimate the power you have."
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 997	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:12:00 - [78] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: And no, there is no room for negotiation. No one needs to spec into more guns that fill the same niche than any suit in the game can fit at once. If only this were true, but that's the point. You start with Lasers. Okay, hit collision in 1.6 makes semiautomatics very powerful and the Laser hard to stay alive with. You spec into TARs for the long range and scope, both being better than the Scrambler. The Scrambler gets a 30m range extension and the TAR gets a 5m nerf, while the Rail Rifle also is added. Now what? Spec into Scrambler Rifles, everyone complains the range is OP, it gets nerfed to 45m from the 78m. Spec into Rail Rifles. CCP decides to make the spool up time 1 second instead and increase the kick and it's a big turd. The cycle continues. Much of that is pointless conjecture... Also, one thing I'd love to stress. You don't spec into tactical assalt rifles. You spec into Assault Rifles... and get TAR as a bonus. If you didn't spec into the weapon tree that is specifically denoted as the tactical rifles, then it is no-one's fault but your own. Also, 1.6 made full autos more powerful. Technically, it didn't, it just made them as powerful as they were always programmed to be. If that was higher than they were supposed to be... only the DEVs can say. Everything but the Rail Rifles being nerfed for being OP in the future has already happened, or has been confirmed. There aren't many choices for any given niche so as things get tossed around, players inevitably end up speccing into multiple similar weapons unless they make a strong effort not to, or were on the receiving end of a buff. TARs have been good enough and different enough, even after the last nerf, to stand on their own. They have a scope and a 15m advantage over Scrambler Rifles and are the only gun that covers about the same ground as the Laser Rifle. If you like that 55-75m range, there's Laser Rifles and there's TARs. That's it. Also, 1.6 made everything more powerful. Full autos can snipe at 60-70m much more effectively than before and semiautomatics are easier to hit with. Both of these make it nearly impossible to stay alive with a Laser Rifle without a ring of squad mates around you, and even when you do, you probably could've done much better with a TAR. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2342	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:15:00 - [79] - Quote Just don't give anyone a respec. Seems like a reasonable solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 811	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:21:00 - [80] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. there is also john, the guy that was forced to choose amarr heavy instead of any other racial heavy because of lack of content. and also Barney that skilled up something he enjoys, e.g. scouts which patch after patch was ninja nerfed due to some small mechanic changes like movement speed changes and aim assist. I could go on longer with even more cases where CCP screwed it up but even the stupiest guy should now get the point

Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 267	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:25:00 - [81] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. Normally I would agree with you. But then we bring in Charlie, who has dumped all his points in dropships and tanks. Turns out this was a really bad decision, he's bored of vehicles. But CCP come to the rescue and give Charlie a respec, but tell Alex and Bob to **** off. That's not fair on either Alex or Bob. Why should one part of the playerbase get preferential treatment? Yet that is what CCP's current plan is. In these circumstances, where part of the playerbase is getting a respec, the lesser of two evils is for everyone to get one.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1744	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:36:00 - [82] - Quote OP your wrong Im Bob I put all my SP into the vehicle tree and pretty much maxed it out for what i wanted, then i ended up saving 8mil SP for pilot suits which never came So i ended up spending them SP into infantry Now the vehicle tree SP sink has increased by a factor of 3 even tho i put all my points into my vehicle tree i wont have enough to do what i did in 1.6 Im getting punished but not because of the choices i made, i made my choices, i couldnt hold onto the SP i saved for 6months or more while CCP bumbled about, the SP i put into the vehicle tree is no longer enough for 1.7 because CCP made it into a SP sink
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 280	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:15:00 - [83] - Quote thank you for posting this. People should have stopped asking for a respec after uprising was launched. I would be one of those people who knew what they wanted to do and have spent my skill points to make my pilot the best he can be. A respec would be really annoying for me as i would have to put all my sp back where it was which would be really tedious and if i make a mistake what then? There is a rumor going around that vehicle pilots will be getting a respec with 1.7 i hope this is not the case. I could understand getting one because there are alot more skills that might screw up the tree for some pilots. However there should not be full respecs any more forever.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 739	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:21:00 - [84] - Quote Then there is Sally. Sally say F it. i wrote my skills down in a spreadsheet and can spec right back up easily. Then there is Robby. Robby doesn't have a problem blazing back through the skill trees because he's not full *****. You'd have to redo the skills if the skill tree has changed anyway (which it will be eventually). Then there is me that thinks reskillng is fun with beer. If you don't think sniping is the greatest thing everGÇª I will fight you. That's no lie.* -GÇö Ron Burgundy paraphrased
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 83	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:42:00 - [85] - Quote who dafuq are Bob and Alex?
CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT CowTek IT Infotech 34	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:22:00 - [86] - Quote Bob and Alex need to get a room.
Upper Deckin Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:24:00 - [87] - Quote How many respec's did bob get during beta ? Where he got to learn on a even playing field . **** Alex , stupid noob spending points to try weapons because not every weapon had a MLT variant . This thinking will continue to drive away the new player who starts the game ,gets screwed not knowing he picked a FOTM as his weapon and gets stuck with a nerf , because the game isn't done and they have to tweak it some more. Thanks unknowing beta tester !!! Thumbs up!!! Why continue putting time into a game they keep changing ? He's not addicted ,he'll go play something else. I'm sorry but a 5 year plan doesn't mean much when they don't even know how the basic gameplay should be . You guys on here get all white knight about the game . "We can't give respecs ! You have to live with your choices!!!!!! Thing is kids ...CCP doesn't live with theirs.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1232	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:34:00 - [88] - Quote Actually it's more like You have bob who specced into the fotm perfectly while he moving up the ranks as a caldari logi, before they were nerfed. now he's specced into gallente logi right before they get nerfed in 1.7. Fortunately for bob he can now respec into the new most over powered suit for 1.7 thanks to this respec, and so can bob's 50 friends in his corp, and now they can properly pub stomp every newb without 20mil sp, bob can regain that 7-8 mil he wasted on a currently sub par fitting. and yes...I AM BOB! careful what you wish for kiddies cause you better ******* hope you don't get it.
CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT CowTek IT Infotech 34	Posted - 2013.11.22 14:28:00 - [89] - Quote His name is Robert Paulson .... His name is Robert Paulson .... His name is Robert Paulson ....
steadyhand amarr Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1957	Posted - 2013.11.22 14:34:00 - [90] - Quote No respecs Bob's smart decision making should be rewards. EvE rewards smart players and that mentally should carry over to dust still anoyyed these threads keep getting raised. Sometimes in games things that ** u off are in there to ** u off on purpose. WOW graveyard runs are a perfect example of this :-) "my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers



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