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Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1221	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:15:00 - [31] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: People keep using the same line to defend respecs, and it has begun to wear on my patience. That line is.. "What do people who don't want respecs have to lose?" This is usually followed by some personal attacks, something about speccing out of FotM, something about fear of newbies, and general name-calling. So I'm here to clear up the confusion and shut down a few rather virulent badposters. If we give a respec, Imagine we have Alex. Alex spent his SP willy-nilly, just playing and testing. He didn't have a plan in mind, so if he gets a respec he can start over, plan accordingly, and put points into his favored playstyle. It's all good... for Alex. In case you didn't get the hint, Alex is players who want respecs. Then after the respec, we have Bob. Bob spent his SP wisely, making each choice count. He has all his points placed in carefully thought arrangements, and doesn't regret a single level. When he puts his points in again, he puts them back in the exact same place. His game hasn't changed at all, and he is upset that the game rewarded Alex, who screwed up his SP, and snubbed him. In case you didn't get the hint, Bob is everyone else. The Alex's of the game refuse to see things from the point of view of the Bob's. Those of us who had a plan get nothing for it, and feel like all our work was for naught. A simple solution would be to give some goodies out along with the respec, or make it a choice between goodies and respec. The former would probably be easier on CCP, but either would give the Bob's something instead of just telling them to sod off. So basically, BOB wants to keep his advantage over Alex. We already knew this bro. bob is scared of Alex. PLUS its not all ALEX fault! There are no MLT variants of MANY stuff so he HAD to spend SP to test it. Your argument is bad and you should feel bad. Your rebuttal is stupid and you should feel stupid. I never said Bob was afraid of Alex, that is you failing to see things from a Bob's point of view. You are having an X-Man moment: I am different and therefore better. You think that your poor SP choices are responsible for your combat failings. You think Bob is only good because he spent his SP wisely. What is actually going on is that Alex is not getting punished for throwing his SP about, while Bob is not getting rewarded for being careful with his SP. Even if you tested some equipment, do you know how little the first level of any skill matters? You can train it off of two or three good matches. That is no excuse for being poor with SP. Bob is getting thrown to the wayside, and the DEVs are breaking their word to appease the Alex's. No racial Heavy variants for several months from the time you get into Heavies? That's OK; just get stomped for several months in militia gear until CCP decides to add them. Your gun-gun-gun got nerfed and is no longer suitable for your purposes? That's OK; you can always rely on Remote Explosives, right? New guns are introduced, swallowing your niche and presenting superior options to the one you chose, which was possibly the only option for your role at the time (say, you use Laser Rifles)? No problem. Just use your 19m span, 300 DPS Laser Rifle against the 78m span, 500 DPS Rail Rifles and 78m span, 900 (accounting recoil, this time, roughly) DPS Scrambler Rifles. That's OK; you can use standard guns for a month against all the protos when you would've chosen these guns to begin with, right? 3/6 combat skill trees are being completely redone and you want to get into vehicles if they aren't pieces of crap this time around and have 10 million SP in fat suits with assault rifles with complex damage modifiers and armor? That's OK; you can just Murder Taxi for a year to get that SP back and put it into vehicles. I don't know about you, but these don't seem to lead to a happy and content player base. All of these are cases for partial respecs at best. To play Devil's Advocate though... Deciding to stay in Militia is a stupid excuse, they will probably give Amarr Heavy a partial like they did with Vehicles, or split it like they did with Destroyers. Use what you have and move on. Waiting for the DEVs to add something isn't gamebreaking. If it was, you simply wouldn't be playing. If your gun got nerfed, it was most likely for good reason. Laser Rifles still have a niche as they have no kick. Perfect accuracy, perfect line of death. The main reason they are respeccing the vehicle tree is because the tree is being torn up completely, so they can then put their SP into the new tree. Any player moving their points to the Infantry trees as a result deserves to start back at the bottom. Shields as Weapons
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 993	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:17:00 - [32] - Quote low genius wrote: the op is missing something. the learning curve is a fundamental part of this game. without it, the game loses a lot of it's "real" nature. it's only the concept that bob can start after alex, make better decisions, show better self-control and get those skills that count... and bob can be better than alex. even if alex is an old character who made stupid or ill-informed decisions. in this way bob has a chance to catch up to, and even surpass alex. that is the power that players have in this game. it's a different kind of power. it's the power of forethought and preparation. in the real world alex does not get a respec. and neither does bob. eve is real. the alex's of new eden didn't save the triple sp that ccp just gave them. the alex's of new eden don't have 3 million sp sitting waiting for new gear. the alex's of new eden don't plan ahead. the bob's of new eden are sitting with 3 or 5 million sp in their pocket right now just waiting to be better than alex when they drop those new rifles. the bob's of new eden know that alex isn't get his respec, and he can therefore be beaten. Maybe the Alex's of New Eden didn't want to get stomped for a month waiting for new gear? Oh, what fun. Get stomped on more for a month leading to the update or get stomped on for the month after the next update. Of course, chances are if you have 20 million SP it was easy to save up. Plus, high SP players start growing horizontally, leaving less room for optimization, anyway. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1253	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:18:00 - [33] - Quote Some people fail to see how this could help even the field in terms of giving new players and people who didn't know better a second chance. And before you say, "Oh well I could get a really good setup going with the starter 500,000 SP. There isn't a problem there". think about this, how many new players would know exactly what to do with their 500k SP? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 983	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:18:00 - [34] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I never said Bob was afraid of Alex, that is you failing to see things from a Bob's point of view. You are having an X-Man moment: I am different and therefore better. You think that your poor SP choices are responsible for your combat failings. You think Bob is only good because he spent his SP wisely. What is actually going on is that Alex is not getting punished for throwing his SP about, while Bob is not getting rewarded for being careful with his SP. Even if you tested some equipment, do you know how little the first level of any skill matters? You can train it off of two or three good matches. That is no excuse for being poor with SP. Bob is getting thrown to the wayside, and the DEVs are breaking their word to appease the Alex's. GÖªOf course you wont admit Bob is Afraid of Alex. You are Bob. GÖªEven with his Poor SP decisions (which were NOT POOR AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, they got nerfed thanks to Bob QQ) Alex can still pound bob. GÖªI never Said Bob was good. I said Bob has an advantage over Alex. GÖªWho said Alex throwesd his SP about? Alex wanted to be a Nova Knife scout and an AV specialist. Both got Nerfed to the ground. This is not poor SP choices, not spending SP poorly, this is something inevitable that when it happns to BOB, ALex wont be there to support him. GÖªDevs are breaking their word because there are more Alex's than Bobs, and the Devs KNOW Alex's are rights.Bobs arent.Simple. Using bold text doesn't make your argument any more correct Ace, it just makes it more annoying to read. Any one who is great at written arguments will tell you that the words should speak for themselves. The formatting needs to be as unobtrusive as possible. I'd also like to point out that you have single handedly taken a thread that was rather even handed and fair to both sides and started to turn it into a **** slinging match. By doing so you are not only dragging the ideas you are espousing here through the muck but also any other idea you may happen to post on this forum. It is clear that you have a major emotional investment in respecs. That is fine. In fact CCP would say that getting you so emotionally invested that your actively engaging in text-based yelling matches is evidence that they are creating an immersive game. Congratulations, you've let your disbelief become suspended. Remember though, this is a game. SP reset or not it is about having fun and getting angry certainly denies you that fun, in addition to doing nothing to help increase the chance of getting that SP reset you so desire. Fun > Realism
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 179	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:21:00 - [35] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: All of these are cases for partial respecs at best. To play Devil's Advocate though... Deciding to stay in Militia is a stupid excuse, they will probably give Amarr Heavy a partial like they did with Vehicles, or split it like they did with Destroyers. Use what you have and move on. Waiting for the DEVs to add something isn't gamebreaking. If it was, you simply wouldn't be playing. If your gun got nerfed, it was most likely for good reason. Laser Rifles still have a niche as they have no kick. Perfect accuracy, perfect line of death. The main reason they are respeccing the vehicle tree is because the tree is being torn up completely, so they can then put their SP into the new tree. Any player moving their points to the Infantry trees as a result deserves to start back at the bottom. Well ithink is unfair to vehicle drivers to have a respec and being able to put those SP into infantry,and we infantry AV wont,even if our weapons were UNESESARILY NERFED (Ty to all the Tanker QQ) to the ground. Now i wont get a Partial respec on my FG,Swarms, AV grenades and PC? How come? what if i want to use it to spec into vehicles? Seems like crappy decision making from CCP.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1222	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:21:00 - [36] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Bolding everything you say is annoying. Fixed. I won't even bother with a point-by-point, most of your points are pure opinion and heavily biased. Bobs are not afraid of Alexs. Alexs feel persecuted and wish to turn that into a positive thing by thinking they are superior. You think you're better than a Bob. You are not. You are the same. Bob and Alex started the same, and had the same chances with the same points and same skills. Bob ended up doing better because he was careful. If Alex had simply been as careful, he would have been alot better off. Also, if your particular Alex decided to specialize into a SIDEARM and a NICHE PLAY-STYLE without putting points into the basics, he shot himself in the foot. He never thought about what he would do in a wide-open map, he never thought what he would do without expensive caskets to hunt. He. Never. Thought. Also, DEVs are not giving a full respec. Just a partial to vehicles because of major restructuring. Sensible and reasonable. GÖªBob and Alex are the same. Bob still has an UNFAIR advantage over Alex = INBALANCE GÖªAlex was not necesarily NOT careful. Just Bob's decisions in SP didnt get heavily affected by changes over time and ALEX's did. GÖªBOB is just being selfish since he doesnt need the repec. GÖªI won't even bother with you , your points are pure opinion and heavily biased, You just CANT understand that ALEX might have planned BETTER than BOB, but BOB went Generic Mid Frame And AR and because Alex tried to play differnetly he is getting punished.Unecesarily. You are just ASSUMING , Alex never though. Well, bob went with a Generic FOTM that is still viable while ALEX DID indeed put a lot of effort in his SP books and got screwed over,while BOB did what most players did and happily says there is no need for respecs. GÖªThey should also give one to AV players AT LEAST,a respec....since we got all nerfed to the ground. GÖªCant stop my BOLD. Bold stopped. Bob has no unfair advantage. Bob had access to all the information Alex did, and made better decisions with it. He doesn't need a respec, nor does he want it because that means his care was in vain and fruitless. ALEX is being selfish, forcing his needs on Bob and not giving a damn. If he HAD planned better, he wouldn't be in this spot. He literally brought a knife to a gunfight in your case, what did he expect? AV has not been nerfed. Vehicles and AV were scaled down, both of them. As such, if AV did 20 to a 200 HP HAV, it now does 2 to a 20 HP one. Shields as Weapons
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3090	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:22:00 - [37] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I never said Bob was afraid of Alex, that is you failing to see things from a Bob's point of view. You are having an X-Man moment: I am different and therefore better. You think that your poor SP choices are responsible for your combat failings. You think Bob is only good because he spent his SP wisely. What is actually going on is that Alex is not getting punished for throwing his SP about, while Bob is not getting rewarded for being careful with his SP. Even if you tested some equipment, do you know how little the first level of any skill matters? You can train it off of two or three good matches. That is no excuse for being poor with SP. Bob is getting thrown to the wayside, and the DEVs are breaking their word to appease the Alex's. GÖªOf course you wont admit Bob is Afraid of Alex. You are Bob. GÖªEven with his Poor SP decisions (which were NOT POOR AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, they got nerfed thanks to Bob QQ) Alex can still pound bob. GÖªI never Said Bob was good. I said Bob has an advantage over Alex. GÖªWho said Alex throwesd his SP about? Alex wanted to be a Nova Knife scout and an AV specialist. Both got Nerfed to the ground. This is not poor SP choices, not spending SP poorly, this is something inevitable that when it happns to BOB, ALex wont be there to support him. GÖªDevs are breaking their word because there are more Alex's than Bobs, and the Devs KNOW Alex's are rights.Bobs arent.Simple. Using bold text doesn't make your argument any more correct Ace, it just makes it more annoying to read. Any one who is great at written arguments will tell you that the words should speak for themselves. The formatting needs to be as unobtrusive as possible. I'd also like to point out that you have single handedly taken a thread that was rather even handed and fair to both sides and started to turn it into a ** slinging match. By doing so you are not only dragging the ideas you are espousing here through the muck but also any other idea you may happen to post on this forum. It is clear that you have a major emotional investment in respecs. That is fine. In fact CCP would say that getting you so emotionally invested that your actively engaging in text-based yelling matches is evidence that they are creating an immersive game. Congratulations, you've let your disbelief become suspended. Remember though, this is a game. SP reset or not it is about having fun and getting angry certainly denies you that fun, in addition to doing nothing to help increase the chance of getting that SP reset you so desire. I always thought that the "this is just a game" argument is pretty stupid imo. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3**
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 179	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:25:00 - [38] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Bold stopped. Bob has no unfair advantage. Bob had access to all the information Alex did, and made better decisions with it. He doesn't need a respec, nor does he want it because that means his care was in vain and fruitless. ALEX is being selfish, forcing his needs on Bob and not giving a damn. If he HAD planned better, he wouldn't be in this spot. He literally brought a knife to a gunfight in your case, what did he expect? AV has not been nerfed. Vehicles and AV were scaled down, both of them. As such, if AV did 20 to a 200 HP HAV, it now does 2 to a 20 HP one. OH GOD, Bob and Alex DID Equally Good decisions, The nerf hammer just Hit Alex and NOT bob. They both used their SP into stuff that worked equally better, BOB JUST GOT LUCKY, hes is NOT smarter. He doesnt want/need a respec but in order to avoid loosing even MORE players CCP must consider giving ALEX's their respec.Since BOBS WONT leave if they get a respec, but ALEX's will if they dont. ''AV has not been nerfed. Vehicles and AV were scaled down, both of them. '' then both of them deserve a partial Respec
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1222	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:25:00 - [39] - Quote Atiim wrote: Some people fail to see how this could help even the field in terms of giving new players and people who didn't know better a second chance. And before you say, "Oh well I could get a really good setup going with the starter 500,000 SP. There isn't a problem there". think about this, how many new players would know exactly what to do with their 500k SP? Old players were new once, and made the same mistakes. If you respec them, you give them the same chance. This won't fix the gap between new and old, the old will simply use it to minmax themselves to the peak of power, while the newbies will get to refund their test points into Plasma Cannon I and Hacking III. Shields as Weapons
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 483	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:26:00 - [40] - Quote Why should AR and Swarm users get a leg up when their weapons will function the way they're intended and no longer be god like points scorers? We knew for months the AR was not the weapon it was intended to be and only a placeholder till the other weapons come in. Hell I'm an idiot and I knew it wasn't going to last with them dominating at all ranges. As for the swarms its simply too easy and map dominating. Again you knew it wasn't going to last. If you honestly didn't then I pity you cus your weapon was horrible broken Maybe my view is invalid cus I'm an existentialist and I take mastery of my choices. I don't see them as mistakes. They give me options "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"

low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 911	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:26:00 - [41] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: low genius wrote: the op is missing something. the learning curve is a fundamental part of this game. without it, the game loses a lot of it's "real" nature. it's only the concept that bob can start after alex, make better decisions, show better self-control and get those skills that count... and bob can be better than alex. even if alex is an old character who made stupid or ill-informed decisions. in this way bob has a chance to catch up to, and even surpass alex. that is the power that players have in this game. it's a different kind of power. it's the power of forethought and preparation. in the real world alex does not get a respec. and neither does bob. eve is real. the alex's of new eden didn't save the triple sp that ccp just gave them. the alex's of new eden don't have 3 million sp sitting waiting for new gear. the alex's of new eden don't plan ahead. the bob's of new eden are sitting with 3 or 5 million sp in their pocket right now just waiting to be better than alex when they drop those new rifles. the bob's of new eden know that alex isn't get his respec, and he can therefore be beaten. Maybe the Alex's of New Eden didn't want to get stomped for a month waiting for new gear? Oh, what fun. Get stomped on more for a month leading to the update or get stomped on for the month after the next update. Of course, chances are if you have 20 million SP it was easy to save up. Plus, high SP players start growing horizontally, leaving less room for optimization, anyway. I use standard guns and an advanced suit in almost every situation. it takes about 2 weeks to get both of those things, which means you can get two sets of them in a month. what you're missing is: you'll eventually have all these suits, and all of these guns because you're a first year character. why are you in such a hurry?
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 993	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:26:00 - [42] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: All of these are cases for partial respecs at best. To play Devil's Advocate though... Deciding to stay in Militia is a stupid excuse, they will probably give Amarr Heavy a partial like they did with Vehicles, or split it like they did with Destroyers. Use what you have and move on. Waiting for the DEVs to add something isn't gamebreaking. If it was, you simply wouldn't be playing. If your gun got nerfed, it was most likely for good reason. Laser Rifles still have a niche as they have no kick. Perfect accuracy, perfect line of death. The main reason they are respeccing the vehicle tree is because the tree is being torn up completely, so they can then put their SP into the new tree. Any player moving their points to the Infantry trees as a result deserves to start back at the bottom. Okay, I'll take your word for it and spec 2,400,000 SP into prototype Amarr Sentinel suits. I'm sure I'll get a partial respec. Oh, wait. Then CCP won't and you'll just tell me to suck it up because I should've thought ahead. Waiting for the DEVs to add something for several months, is, indeed, gamebreaking for many. Well, it's pretty easy if you just build passive SP and go play Killzone. See? Helping player retention already. Guns are voluntarily nerfed and also nerfed by the addition of new guns, or the buffing of similar guns, really. Also, Laser Rifles have the worst DPS profile in the game to pay for the lack of kick, until around 25-30 rounds have been fired. Sure, if you can fire a whole clip at 65m into a Rail Rifle user you'll match their DPS on average or slightly exceed it. Chances are you'll be dead long before your DPS builds unless you fire at a wall for 4 second straight, but that's perfectly fine because it is recoiless. As of 1.6 with the improved hit detection, I can easily use a Scrambler or TAR to completely suppress a Laser Rifle user. I have not died to a Laser Rifle user I knew existed in the last 50 encounters with them since 1.6, unless they are head glitching and get me as I cross a desert. The Laser is a joke now. Luckily, I was not dumb enough to blow all my SP on it, even though I mained it for 2 months. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Lea Silencio 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 735	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:27:00 - [43] - Quote I have always been in the "no respecs" group, but I have changed my stance on one issue: when all racial variants come out i.e. Caldari heavy, Amarr scout it would be a crime for CCP to not allow a total respec. It is their fault for not including all of that at commercial release tbh. Then, and only then, is a respec permissable. Also, what IF Alex got his respec....would the current "pro respec" crowd change their tune if another new Alex came into the game and then demanded a respec because he messed up? Because let's face it....year after year as new players filter in and discover the game, there will ALWAYS be another Alex. Food for thought. Purification. It's what I do.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 993	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:28:00 - [44] - Quote low genius wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: low genius wrote: the op is missing something. the learning curve is a fundamental part of this game. without it, the game loses a lot of it's "real" nature. it's only the concept that bob can start after alex, make better decisions, show better self-control and get those skills that count... and bob can be better than alex. even if alex is an old character who made stupid or ill-informed decisions. in this way bob has a chance to catch up to, and even surpass alex. that is the power that players have in this game. it's a different kind of power. it's the power of forethought and preparation. in the real world alex does not get a respec. and neither does bob. eve is real. the alex's of new eden didn't save the triple sp that ccp just gave them. the alex's of new eden don't have 3 million sp sitting waiting for new gear. the alex's of new eden don't plan ahead. the bob's of new eden are sitting with 3 or 5 million sp in their pocket right now just waiting to be better than alex when they drop those new rifles. the bob's of new eden know that alex isn't get his respec, and he can therefore be beaten. Maybe the Alex's of New Eden didn't want to get stomped for a month waiting for new gear? Oh, what fun. Get stomped on more for a month leading to the update or get stomped on for the month after the next update. Of course, chances are if you have 20 million SP it was easy to save up. Plus, high SP players start growing horizontally, leaving less room for optimization, anyway. I use standard guns and an advanced suit in almost every situation. it takes about 2 weeks to get both of those things, which means you can get two sets of them in a month. what you're missing is: you'll eventually have all these suits, and all of these guns because you're a first year character. why are you in such a hurry? This is true enough. However, it is undeniably frustrating to have months of SP locked into stuff you now feel obligated to use, when you never would've picked it had the basic content already existed at the time. I'm not that bad off, but some are pretty bad, I'm sure. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 985	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:28:00 - [45] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I always thought that the "this is just a game" argument is pretty stupid imo. I just like to point it out to people who are taking this stuff far too seriously. It is okay to get emotionally invested but in the end it is just a game and we need to be mellow and have fun with it. Fun > Realism
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 179	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:28:00 - [46] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Why should AR and Swarm users get a leg up when their weapons will function the way they're intended and no longer be god like points scorers? We knew for months the AR was not the weapon it was intended to be and only a placeholder till the other weapons come in. Hell I'm an idiot and I knew it wasn't going to last with them dominating at all ranges. As for the swarms its simply too easy and map dominating. Again you knew it wasn't going to last. If you honestly didn't then I pity you cus your weapon was horrible broken Maybe my view is invalid cus I'm an existentialist and I take mastery of my choices. I don't see them as mistakes. They give me options Swarm launchers are/were not Broken Swarm launchers were AV weaponry designed to destroy Tanks easily As it is,tanks were able to take 6 full volleys of Swarm Launchers the problem was Rendering (they were invisible to vehicle users) and MASSIVE homing capacity. QQ got them nerfed QQ from butthurts like yourself.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1222	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:29:00 - [47] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: All of these are cases for partial respecs at best. To play Devil's Advocate though... Deciding to stay in Militia is a stupid excuse, they will probably give Amarr Heavy a partial like they did with Vehicles, or split it like they did with Destroyers. Use what you have and move on. Waiting for the DEVs to add something isn't gamebreaking. If it was, you simply wouldn't be playing. If your gun got nerfed, it was most likely for good reason. Laser Rifles still have a niche as they have no kick. Perfect accuracy, perfect line of death. The main reason they are respeccing the vehicle tree is because the tree is being torn up completely, so they can then put their SP into the new tree. Any player moving their points to the Infantry trees as a result deserves to start back at the bottom. Well ithink is unfair to vehicle drivers to have a respec and being able to put those SP into infantry,and we infantry AV wont,even if our weapons were UNESESARILY NERFED (Ty to all the Tanker QQ) to the ground. Now i wont get a Partial respec on my FG,Swarms, AV grenades and PC? How come? what if i want to use it to spec into vehicles? Seems like crappy decision making from CCP. Forgetting Bob and Alex for a minute, you seriously specced into Forge Guns, Swarm Launchers, AV grenades, and Plasma Cannons, as well as Nova Knives? That's three Light weapons, a Heavy weapon, a Sidearm, and the suits to go with them. And not ONCE did you think of spending some on an anti-infantry firearm? I need to say nothing, this speaks for itself. You are an Alex. Shields as Weapons
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3091	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:30:00 - [48] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: I always thought that the "this is just a game" argument is pretty stupid imo. I just like to point it out to people who are taking this stuff far too seriously. It is okay to get emotionally invested but in the end it is just a game and we need to be mellow and have fun with it. Meh. It's a game like you said but isn't that the point? To get emotionally invested? I think so. It's more fun to get invested. When you take a game seriously, it's probably because its fun to do so. Edit: perfect example is PC. It's alot of work to show up for the timers and it is serious. I mean like really serious. But it's fun to get serious. I think that shows promise. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 179	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:30:00 - [49] - Quote Lea Silencio wrote: I have always been in the "no respecs" group, but I have changed my stance on one issue: when all racial variants come out i.e. Caldari heavy, Amarr scout it would be a crime for CCP to not allow a total respec. It is their fault for not including all of that at commercial release tbh. Then, and only then, is a respec permissable. Also, what IF Alex got his respec....would the current "pro respec" crowd change their tune if another new Alex came into the game and then demanded a respec because he messed up? Because let's face it....year after year as new players filter in and discover the game, there will ALWAYS be another Alex. Food for thought. CCP needs to implement a RESPEC option for NEW players after 4 - 5 Mill SP. After that you get ONE chance to respec into something else , you can even save that chance forever. But in order to AVOID mroe ALEX's , they need to have a second chance. With THIS implemented and a FULL RESPEC when all racial stuff is released im pretty sure the ALEX rate would decrease,dramatically.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 993	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:31:00 - [50] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Why should AR and Swarm users get a leg up when their weapons will function the way they're intended and no longer be god like points scorers? We knew for months the AR was not the weapon it was intended to be and only a placeholder till the other weapons come in. Hell I'm an idiot and I knew it wasn't going to last with them dominating at all ranges. As for the swarms its simply too easy and map dominating. Again you knew it wasn't going to last. If you honestly didn't then I pity you cus your weapon was horrible broken Maybe my view is invalid cus I'm an existentialist and I take mastery of my choices. I don't see them as mistakes. They give me options Swarm launchers are/were not Broken Swarm launchers were AV weaponry designed to destroy Tanks easily As it is,tanks were able to take 6 full volleys of Swarm Launchers the problem was Rendering (they were invisible to vehicle users) and MASSIVE homing capacity. QQ got them nerfed QQ from butthurts like yourself. The only thing OP about Swarms were proto swarms, especially combined with mods. My Soma with 2 players repairing it is essentially invulnerable to standard swarms and unbuffed advanced swarms. It's only when you start getting Assault Forge Guns and Prototype Swarms do I usually die. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1222	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:31:00 - [51] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: All of these are cases for partial respecs at best. To play Devil's Advocate though... Deciding to stay in Militia is a stupid excuse, they will probably give Amarr Heavy a partial like they did with Vehicles, or split it like they did with Destroyers. Use what you have and move on. Waiting for the DEVs to add something isn't gamebreaking. If it was, you simply wouldn't be playing. If your gun got nerfed, it was most likely for good reason. Laser Rifles still have a niche as they have no kick. Perfect accuracy, perfect line of death. The main reason they are respeccing the vehicle tree is because the tree is being torn up completely, so they can then put their SP into the new tree. Any player moving their points to the Infantry trees as a result deserves to start back at the bottom. Okay, I'll take your word for it and spec 2,400,000 SP into prototype Amarr Sentinel suits. I'm sure I'll get a partial respec. Oh, wait. Then CCP won't and you'll just tell me to suck it up because I should've thought ahead. Waiting for the DEVs to add something for several months, is, indeed, gamebreaking for many. Well, it's pretty easy if you just build passive SP and go play Killzone. See? Helping player retention already. Guns are voluntarily nerfed and also nerfed by the addition of new guns, or the buffing of similar guns, really. Also, Laser Rifles have the worst DPS profile in the game to pay for the lack of kick, until around 25-30 rounds have been fired. Sure, if you can fire a whole clip at 65m into a Rail Rifle user you'll match their DPS on average or slightly exceed it. Chances are you'll be dead long before your DPS builds unless you fire at a wall for 4 second straight, but that's perfectly fine because it is recoiless. As of 1.6 with the improved hit detection, I can easily use a Scrambler or TAR to completely suppress a Laser Rifle user. I have not died to a Laser Rifle user I knew existed in the last 50 encounters with them since 1.6, unless they are head glitching and get me as I cross a desert. The Laser is a joke now. Luckily, I was not dumb enough to blow all my SP on it, even though I mained it for 2 months. And I have Proficiency levels in Laser Rifles, what's your point? Shields as Weapons
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 987	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:35:00 - [52] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: [ Well ithink is unfair to vehicle drivers to have a respec and being able to put those SP into infantry,and we infantry AV wont,even if our weapons were UNESESARILY NERFED (Ty to all the Tanker QQ) to the ground. Now i wont get a Partial respec on my FG,Swarms, AV grenades and PC? How come? what if i want to use it to spec into vehicles? Seems like crappy decision making from CCP. Arg! Again with the bold text already. Knock it off. It is really hard to read that. Actually it is perfectly fair that vehicle users get a repsec of all the vehicle skill trees. Lots of the skills they initially bought into are no longer usable and all the equipment they are affecting had deeply changed. To not give them a respec of the vehicle related skills would be a travesty. You as an infantry player on the other hand have had no massive changes made upon your skill tree in a very short time frame. Yes there have been changes but all the equipment you skilled for is still there and all the skills you bought into still exist as well. The stats those skills effect may have changed in minor ways, and the same can be said for the equipment but compared to the vehicle changes these are insignificant. Yep. Its fair. I checked. Fun > Realism
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 993	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:36:00 - [53] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: All of these are cases for partial respecs at best. To play Devil's Advocate though... Deciding to stay in Militia is a stupid excuse, they will probably give Amarr Heavy a partial like they did with Vehicles, or split it like they did with Destroyers. Use what you have and move on. Waiting for the DEVs to add something isn't gamebreaking. If it was, you simply wouldn't be playing. If your gun got nerfed, it was most likely for good reason. Laser Rifles still have a niche as they have no kick. Perfect accuracy, perfect line of death. The main reason they are respeccing the vehicle tree is because the tree is being torn up completely, so they can then put their SP into the new tree. Any player moving their points to the Infantry trees as a result deserves to start back at the bottom. Okay, I'll take your word for it and spec 2,400,000 SP into prototype Amarr Sentinel suits. I'm sure I'll get a partial respec. Oh, wait. Then CCP won't and you'll just tell me to suck it up because I should've thought ahead. Waiting for the DEVs to add something for several months, is, indeed, gamebreaking for many. Well, it's pretty easy if you just build passive SP and go play Killzone. See? Helping player retention already. Guns are voluntarily nerfed and also nerfed by the addition of new guns, or the buffing of similar guns, really. Also, Laser Rifles have the worst DPS profile in the game to pay for the lack of kick, until around 25-30 rounds have been fired. Sure, if you can fire a whole clip at 65m into a Rail Rifle user you'll match their DPS on average or slightly exceed it. Chances are you'll be dead long before your DPS builds unless you fire at a wall for 4 second straight, but that's perfectly fine because it is recoiless. As of 1.6 with the improved hit detection, I can easily use a Scrambler or TAR to completely suppress a Laser Rifle user. I have not died to a Laser Rifle user I knew existed in the last 50 encounters with them since 1.6, unless they are head glitching and get me as I cross a desert. The Laser is a joke now. Luckily, I was not dumb enough to blow all my SP on it, even though I mained it for 2 months. And I have Proficiency levels in Laser Rifles, what's your point? My point was that while you may have no problem losing a couple million SP in this, a couple million SP in that, or using a weaker gun because you have invested in many core skills and complex modules, many players are not. I'll have my vehicle SP refunded at 1.7, which at that time will probably be around 1.2 million SP, so I'll be able to spec that into whatever I choose, at least. The community is more than players like you. Dust 514 is a big enough time investment as it is, without having months of SP tied up in guns or suits you no longer use due to new choices and rebalancing. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 912	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:37:00 - [54] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: low genius wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: low genius wrote: the op is missing something. the learning curve is a fundamental part of this game. without it, the game loses a lot of it's "real" nature. it's only the concept that bob can start after alex, make better decisions, show better self-control and get those skills that count... and bob can be better than alex. even if alex is an old character who made stupid or ill-informed decisions. in this way bob has a chance to catch up to, and even surpass alex. that is the power that players have in this game. it's a different kind of power. it's the power of forethought and preparation. in the real world alex does not get a respec. and neither does bob. eve is real. the alex's of new eden didn't save the triple sp that ccp just gave them. the alex's of new eden don't have 3 million sp sitting waiting for new gear. the alex's of new eden don't plan ahead. the bob's of new eden are sitting with 3 or 5 million sp in their pocket right now just waiting to be better than alex when they drop those new rifles. the bob's of new eden know that alex isn't get his respec, and he can therefore be beaten. Maybe the Alex's of New Eden didn't want to get stomped for a month waiting for new gear? Oh, what fun. Get stomped on more for a month leading to the update or get stomped on for the month after the next update. Of course, chances are if you have 20 million SP it was easy to save up. Plus, high SP players start growing horizontally, leaving less room for optimization, anyway. I use standard guns and an advanced suit in almost every situation. it takes about 2 weeks to get both of those things, which means you can get two sets of them in a month. what you're missing is: you'll eventually have all these suits, and all of these guns because you're a first year character. why are you in such a hurry? This is true enough. However, it is undeniably frustrating to have months of SP locked into stuff you now feel obligated to use, when you never would've picked it had the basic content already existed at the time. I'm not that bad off, but some are pretty bad, I'm sure. but it will always be that way. the game will change and balance 4 times a year drastically for the first few years. there will always be wasted skillpoints and there will always be wasted endeavors. there will be things introduced that destroy your current playstyle and require you to play differently. it's the reason there's not a 'class' system or 'racial restrictions' system in new eden. if you were limited in any way as to what to skill next, then they would have to give you a respec to keep it interesting. ccp always gives you a way to find a niche to kill old vets.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 993	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:42:00 - [55] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: I always thought that the "this is just a game" argument is pretty stupid imo. I just like to point it out to people who are taking this stuff far too seriously. It is okay to get emotionally invested but in the end it is just a game and we need to be mellow and have fun with it. Meh. It's a game like you said but isn't that the point? To get emotionally invested? I think so. It's more fun to get invested. When you take a game seriously, it's probably because its fun. This. People sometimes assume I am seething with rage mashing my keyboard or something. For me, this is a casual debate about a game I enjoy, even if the tone of some of my posts does not always suggest such. low genius wrote: but it will always be that way. the game will change and balance 4 times a year drastically for the first few years. there will always be wasted skillpoints and there will always be wasted endeavors. there will be things introduced that destroy your current playstyle and require you to play differently. it's the reason there's not a 'class' system or 'racial restrictions' system in new eden. if you were limited in any way as to what to skill next, then they would have to give you a respec to keep it interesting. ccp always gives you a way to find a niche to kill old vets. Playing differently and going back to the month-on-month grind is a bit different. One is adapting, one is getting stomped until a number reaches a threshold and you can start to adapt. There are indeed always ways to kill vets, though. You're not limited, but after a while doesn't it feel like the growth is horizontal? You'll settle on a playstyle and look back fondly at the millions of SP spread vertically across the tree? Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 179	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:43:00 - [56] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Forgetting Bob and Alex for a minute, you seriously specced into Forge Guns, Swarm Launchers, AV grenades, and Plasma Cannons, as well as Nova Knives? That's three Light weapons, a Heavy weapon, a Sidearm, and the suits to go with them. And not ONCE did you think of spending some on an anti-infantry firearm? I need to say nothing, this speaks for itself. You are an Alex. Come to me bro, i'll show you how a SCR rifle is used. Before the Uprising OPTIONAL Respec= I was a Chromosome Scout. When the SCR came out , I became a SCR specialist. AFTER THE RESPEC we got in uprising: I specced into SCR RIFLES and SCOUTS FIRST. With this i went Amarr assault and Minmatar scouts Scouts for CQ, AMarr Assault for every other map. Nova knifes 5, Shotguns 5, SMGs 4 (that are still good, THANK GOD) , and a Lot Of My SP into Passive stuff for my scout. When the Murder Taxi trend came along and was the FOTM, i decided i wanted to stop it.I had enough of it and i was NOT having fun anymore. SO i invested into Amarr sentinel Lv 4, FG Proficiency 5, Swarm launcher to use on my assault amarr, Prof 5, Grenades Operation 5.(note , I didnt even USE locus grenades before. I only used the SP wor the Lai Dai packed ones....).The PC when it came out i only got it to level 3. The commando Lv 3 is MY fault for trying to try stuff out,but its impossible to use the STD commando as it has NO slots. This is a short history of my SP usage, since you are interested. Except the commando, i dont really think i either jumped into any FOTM NOR wasted my Sp around.I dont deserve to run handicapped now. Yeah i know what you are going to say, SCR! SCR are GOOD! Well yeah , but i have 20 mill and i run ADV SCR and ADV Amarr asasult with 550 HP. LET ME RUN A PROFILE DAMPNED , 850EHP, IMPERIAL SCRAMBLER RIFLE + QUantum SCANNER Amarr Assault. Heh, throw me at them Proto logis.... I have about 3 or 4 Mill SP that is actaully useful for my current play style. 7-8 maybe considering the Passives. Leaving me with a total of (in the best case scenario) 12 Million of wasted SP. Now you might say: Your AV weapons were a kind of FOTM vs Murder taxis and you shouldnt get a respec! WELL MURDER TAXIS ARE GETTING A RESPEC NOW ARENT THEY.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 914	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:51:00 - [57] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: I always thought that the "this is just a game" argument is pretty stupid imo. I just like to point it out to people who are taking this stuff far too seriously. It is okay to get emotionally invested but in the end it is just a game and we need to be mellow and have fun with it. Meh. It's a game like you said but isn't that the point? To get emotionally invested? I think so. It's more fun to get invested. When you take a game seriously, it's probably because its fun. This. People sometimes assume I am seething with rage mashing my keyboard or something. For me, this is a casual debate about a game I enjoy, even if the tone of some of my posts does not always suggest such. low genius wrote: but it will always be that way. the game will change and balance 4 times a year drastically for the first few years. there will always be wasted skillpoints and there will always be wasted endeavors. there will be things introduced that destroy your current playstyle and require you to play differently. it's the reason there's not a 'class' system or 'racial restrictions' system in new eden. if you were limited in any way as to what to skill next, then they would have to give you a respec to keep it interesting. ccp always gives you a way to find a niche to kill old vets. Playing differently and going back to the month-on-month grind is a bit different. One is adapting, one is getting stomped until a number reaches a threshold and you can start to adapt. There are indeed always ways to kill vets, though. You're not limited, but after a while doesn't it feel like the growth is horizontal? You'll settle on a playstyle and look back fondly at the millions of SP spread vertically across the tree? I started playing eve 8 years late. you know how boned I would be if they gave all those 10 year vets a respec? my strength is making better decisions than my opponents. it's getting those skills that they decided were too time intensive to get. it's doing the thing that they put off and put off because it wasn't easy. it's the only way to get ahead.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 991	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:51:00 - [58] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Forgetting Bob and Alex for a minute, you seriously specced into Forge Guns, Swarm Launchers, AV grenades, and Plasma Cannons, as well as Nova Knives? That's three Light weapons, a Heavy weapon, a Sidearm, and the suits to go with them. And not ONCE did you think of spending some on an anti-infantry firearm? I need to say nothing, this speaks for itself. You are an Alex. Come to me bro, i'll show you how a SCR rifle is used. Before the Uprising OPTIONAL Respec= I was a Chromosome Scout. When the SCR came out , I became a SCR specialist. AFTER THE RESPEC we got in uprising: I specced into SCR RIFLES and SCOUTS FIRST. With this i went Amarr assault and Minmatar scouts Scouts for CQ, AMarr Assault for every other map. Nova knifes 5, Shotguns 5, SMGs 4 (that are still good, THANK GOD) , and a Lot Of My SP into Passive stuff for my scout. When the Murder Taxi trend came along and was the FOTM, i decided i wanted to stop it.I had enough of it and i was NOT having fun anymore. SO i invested into Amarr sentinel Lv 4, FG Proficiency 5, Swarm launcher to use on my assault amarr, Prof 5, Grenades Operation 5.(note , I didnt even USE locus grenades before. I only used the SP wor the Lai Dai packed ones....).The PC when it came out i only got it to level 3. The commando Lv 3 is MY fault for trying to try stuff out,but its impossible to use the STD commando as it has NO slots. This is a short history of my SP usage, since you are interested. Except the commando, i dont really think i either jumped into any FOTM NOR wasted my Sp around.I dont deserve to run handicapped now. Yeah i know what you are going to say, SCR! SCR are GOOD! Well yeah , but i have 20 mill and i run ADV SCR and ADV Amarr asasult with 550 HP. LET ME RUN A PROFILE DAMPNED , 850EHP, IMPERIAL SCRAMBLER RIFLE + QUantum SCANNER Amarr Assault. Heh, throw me at them Proto logis.... I have about 3 or 4 Mill SP that is actaully useful for my current play style. 7-8 maybe considering the Passives. Leaving me with a total of (in the best case scenario) 12 Million of wasted SP. Now you might say: Your AV weapons were a kind of FOTM vs Murder taxis and you shouldnt get a respec! WELL MURDER TAXIS ARE GETTING A RESPEC NOW ARENT THEY. So you are the player that choose to spend his skill points everywhere and now wants a respec so you can specialize. The OP described this as a valid point of view. I don't see why you're so antagonized by him. I have to say I totally disagree that you deserve a respec. You've been too eclectic in your spending of your SP and turned yourself into a generalist. This isn't really a huge negative since now you can start specilizing and also have all those other generally usefull skills to fall back onto when a special situation demands it. That is no reason for a respec at all. You may not have played EVE before but they don't get respecs and their skill point accrual is far less forgiving then ours. If CCP doesn't give repecs to EVE pilots (who by the way only had a very limited number of ships to choose from when EVE started) they why would they give them to us? Why do you inparticular deserve to get one when they have done nothing to drastically change your skill tree? Its not like your skill in forge guns won't let you kill vehicles anymore (who cares if the vehicles have changed). If anything they are more destroyable. Edit: I'd also like to point out tha t the phrase you were looking for is "Come at me bro," which means you want to start a fist fight, something impossible for us forum warriors. Saying "Come to me bro," sounds really stupid. Its like your an 80 year old man trying to use those "darn kids' lingo." Fun > Realism
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1225	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:55:00 - [59] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Forgetting Bob and Alex for a minute, you seriously specced into Forge Guns, Swarm Launchers, AV grenades, and Plasma Cannons, as well as Nova Knives? That's three Light weapons, a Heavy weapon, a Sidearm, and the suits to go with them. And not ONCE did you think of spending some on an anti-infantry firearm? I need to say nothing, this speaks for itself. You are an Alex. Come to me bro, i'll show you how a SCR rifle is used. Before the Uprising OPTIONAL Respec= I was a Chromosome Scout. When the SCR came out , I became a SCR specialist. AFTER THE RESPEC we got in uprising: I specced into SCR RIFLES and SCOUTS FIRST. With this i went Amarr assault and Minmatar scouts Scouts for CQ, AMarr Assault for every other map. Nova knifes 5, Shotguns 5, SMGs 4 (that are still good, THANK GOD) , and a Lot Of My SP into Passive stuff for my scout. When the Murder Taxi trend came along and was the FOTM, i decided i wanted to stop it.I had enough of it and i was NOT having fun anymore. SO i invested into Amarr sentinel Lv 4, FG Proficiency 5, Swarm launcher to use on my assault amarr, Prof 5, Grenades Operation 5.(note , I didnt even USE locus grenades before. I only used the SP wor the Lai Dai packed ones....).The PC when it came out i only got it to level 3. The commando Lv 3 is MY fault for trying to try stuff out,but its impossible to use the STD commando as it has NO slots. This is a short history of my SP usage, since you are interested. Except the commando, i dont really think i either jumped into any FOTM NOR wasted my Sp around.I dont deserve to run handicapped now. Yeah i know what you are going to say, SCR! SCR are GOOD! Well yeah , but i have 20 mill and i run ADV SCR and ADV Amarr asasult with 550 HP. LET ME RUN A PROFILE DAMPNED , 850EHP, IMPERIAL SCRAMBLER RIFLE + QUantum SCANNER Amarr Assault. Heh, throw me at them Proto logis.... I have about 3 or 4 Mill SP that is actaully useful for my current play style. 7-8 maybe considering the Passives. Leaving me with a total of (in the best case scenario) 12 Million of wasted SP. Now you might say: Your AV weapons were a kind of FOTM vs Murder taxis and you shouldnt get a respec! WELL MURDER TAXIS ARE GETTING A RESPEC NOW ARENT THEY. First, MurderTaxi isn't getting a resec because he is a muredertaxi. He is a beneficiary of lucky happenstance. His Taxi has already been nerfed out of Murder, and will shortly no longer even exist. No-one could say that it's fair for their SP to be locked up in a skill that literally doesn't exist anymore. As for the sudden vehicular splurge, that wasn't reasoned. It sounds like a moment of passion or anger. An equally determined but more levelheaded clone would have just specced into one AV weapon. A more defeat-est clone would have ignored MurderTaxis entirely, confident in them being nerfed. If you were truly confident in your playstyle and truly wanted that perfect Assault Amarr fit, you wouldn't have splurged on all those flavors of AV points, then regretted all the extra horizontal it added to your SP tree. You made a bad choice. Simple as. And no, there is no room for negotiation. No one needs to spec into more guns that fill the same niche than any suit in the game can fit at once. Shields as Weapons
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 943	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:58:00 - [60] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: You all say it as if it takes months and months of game play to get a fit to standard. Really, I can get a New Infantry Alt up to snuff with like .5 mil. Armor tanking is extremely potent at lower levels compared to shield tanking at the same level. A standard Gal Suit with standard plates and reactives with standard AR, SMG, and nade, and a militia damage modifier. 597 EHP. You don't need a ton of SP to get a good fit. This. If you need proto to get a good fit, just admit you suck at Dust.. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514



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