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Dunk Mujunk
RestlessSpirits
255
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Posted - 2013.11.16 00:26:00 -
[121] - Quote
There is more than enough equipment to ensure everyone is running different combinations of equipment. Yet everyone dies the same, no matter what is equipped. Why did I get my shields/armor (as well as plates and extenders) to 5 if I die just as quick wearing them as I do when I have no plates and armor?
In a game about long grinds and a large quantity of modules with unique attributes, why are we dying in .8 seconds? I guess I should be thankful for the 0.0025 extra seconds 2 plates give me. |
Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
891
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Posted - 2013.11.16 01:16:00 -
[122] - Quote
If TTK was making your tanking mods useless than you need to find new ways to get around.
Ploo-Koon wrote:The TTK makes Shield Extenders, Regulators, Armour Plates, Armour Reps...etc all entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you have 200 eHP or 1200 eHP when there is a mere second between TTKs.
I agree that it definately makes running Proto gear useless but it isn't the answer to protostomping.
Maybe you should use basic armor mods so your slow ass isn't so easy to kill.
There is a thing called "tactics" which now has a better chance of deciding a fight than gear. Have you ever tried "taking cover" or "falling back". I hear people QQ about the scanner being OP, maybe they should take off those "useless" armor mods and put on some profile dampners. People also QQ about the scouts being too easy to kill, I remedy this by not running into people like an assault, that's why the passive scanner is there and the suits have built in profile dampners. If you put 4 complex armor mods on a scout suit you deserve to die.
The argument came up "Why use proto or advanced now?" Good question and I've been asking that for awhile, I used standard and advanced in pubs. I use proto in PC matches and will likely use it in future FW where it matters. It won't make me invincible, but when I want a W it will give me the edge. If you buy expensive running shoes it won't help you win a marathon unless you're already a marathon runner. Why should and E sport be any different?
As someone with over 21 mil SP and 250 mil ISK, I've learned that proto gear won't do enough to justify wearing it in a match where victory doesn't mean more than an extra 100,000 ISK or 1,000 WPs. I still can and should be taken down by more organised players using better tactics, but I'll never prescribe to the idea that someone should always win because they have better gear.
The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war.
SoonGäó514
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1542
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Posted - 2013.11.16 02:14:00 -
[123] - Quote
I like how people are in such an uproar over low TTK, but then you do the maths and play the game and realize that my Standard suit survives 1.5 seconds to an AR provided all shots hit. Protos last 2 whole seconds.
Considering that perhaps 30% misses, which does happen in CQC, you usually last around 3 full seconds.
This sounds short in MMO or EVE standards, but in FPS standards that's a REALLY ******* LONG TIME. Especially since most every other shooter exempting Halo has you die in .2 seconds.
If your using a scout, then you've always had it bad, I really can't imagine it got all that much anyway. You guys seriously NEED a buff.
For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Replication Warrior
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Rekward
KILL ORDERS
0
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Posted - 2013.11.16 04:01:00 -
[124] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Oooh look at that type cast, I love how you think I am a Proto User, warfare IS currently hide and seek. In the REAL WORLD, but in the real world we don't have shields and armour, we have a flimsy bulletproof vest.
Hey guess what. When the enemy has the same tech as you then tech means squat. Real world or in game. Cover and not getting shot will always be the preferred method of war no matter what kind of tech you have.
Where is the dislike button ? |
Rekward
KILL ORDERS
0
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Posted - 2013.11.16 04:52:00 -
[125] - Quote
This game has huge potential to be an unique FPS. A Strategic FPS with a proper economy.
People are right when they say the TTK is "Alright". Its alright for a FAST PACED TWITCH FPS like COD/BF. BUT its NOT ALRIGHT for Dust.
The majority come to Dust for variety and uniqueness. They don't come to play another online FPS where you jump into a battle and kill a bunch of people, die a bunch of times and call it a day.
People come to Dust to spend their hard earned ISK, buy great suits, "FIT" them carefully to the battles needs. Some like to be a slow walking tank so they can take a ton of damage and SURVIVE while his squad support fires and holds an objective. Some like to be shotgun ninjas and harass/distract the enemy. Some like to be the ordinary frontline crony and push the enemy out of objectives. That's what dust is about, variety and the freedom to mix and match mods and suits to the battlefields needs, and make a difference.
Currently, mixing and matching mods is making "0' to a "tiny" difference. You cant deny this fact. The difference between "tanking" a few patches earlier and the current patch is enormous. The fact that you can die in a blink as a "tanky-as-fuk heavy juggernaut" just because the single enemy had you in their ironsight does not sound right. The very idea of different classes being different is diminishing. As of now expensive suits, shield & armor mods seems to provide just a second more time till you die. For a shooter where you spend huge amounts of in game currency to buy these expensive stuff, just so that you can get a second more to live is by no means right. At this rate, advanced/proto gear is rendered completely useless.
Its very true that the current TTK is preventing "proto stomping" to some extents by blurring the line between basic and proto. But at the cost of that uniqueness and variety that Dust has so promised a year back.
The issue with Aim Assist is a compounding factor to the TTK problem. According to me, TTK is the bigger of the two problems that is begging to be balanced properly.
It would be very depressing to see this turn into another generic FPS. And at its current state, its just worse than any generic FPS. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
709
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Posted - 2013.11.16 05:04:00 -
[126] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Then quit running towards people from the front. *You've been scanned* *You've been scanned* *You've been scanned* *You've been scanned* *You've been scanned* *You've been scanned* *You've been scanned* Every side is the front. There is a thing called "tactics" which now has a better chance of deciding a fight than gear. Have you ever tried "taking cover" or "falling back". I hear people QQ about the scanner being OP, maybe they should take off those "useless" armor mods and put on some profile dampners. People also QQ about the scouts being too easy to kill, I remedy this by not running into people like an assault, that's why the passive scanner is there and the suits have built in profile dampners. If you put 4 complex armor mods on a scout suit you deserve to die. The argument keeps coming up "Why use proto or advanced now?" Good question and I've been asking that for awhile, I used standard and advanced in pubs. I use proto in PC matches and will likely use it in future FW where it matters. It won't make me invincible, but when I want a W it will give me the edge. If you buy expensive running shoes it won't help you win a marathon unless you're already a marathon runner. Why should and E sport be any different? As someone with over 21 mil SP and 250 mil ISK, I've learned that proto gear won't do enough to justify wearing it in a match where victory doesn't mean more than an extra 100,000 ISK or 1,000 WPs. I still can and should be taken down by more organised players using better tactics, but I'll never prescribe to the idea that someone should always win because they have better gear.
A higher TTK does not mean tactics are useless. In fact they often mean more in higher TTK situations. In low TTK environments, you can single-handedly rush an enemy and eliminate them before they can respond properly with just about any weapon. In high TTK environments, that doesn't work as well since they will have time to react.
Also, falling back and taking cover are not tactics in of themselves, they are actions that can be used as part of a tactic.
Scanners as they are now are a bane to tactics. If the enemy knows exactly what you are doing, then there is little chance of any of your tactics working. If you also start using scanners to know your enemy's every move, then tactics goes out the window for both sides leaving just full frontal assault. Think of any multiplayer FPS that as allowed you to reveal enemies. Do they let you keep this ability active constantly? I haven't played one that let you. Why? Because if both teams can constantly know the location and actions of each other, all tactics other than full frontal assault or fortifying an area are doomed to fail.
And finally, I'm a scout. I can easily nearly all scanners. Even then, it is painfully obvious the scanner is too good. Not because it can scan people, but that it can keep people scanned constantly.
!
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Rowdy Railgunner
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
161
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Posted - 2013.11.16 09:16:00 -
[127] - Quote
If you use proto and you die fast.... YOU ****** UP. It is not the games fault or the fact that you are too easy to kill. I held objective A in the one map with the silo that B is on top of it and people can jump into it, BY MYSELF, until people saw I was still down there and they stopped coming. I was in proto at the time, and I killed everyone that came at me, bro. Solo denial of an objective in my proto suit during a FW match. And you people want to give me more ability to slaughter the masses with increased time to kill? I am not even in the top echelon of good players and an entire team stopped attacking one guy in a Gallente proto assault suit. Yeah, you people have no idea about how good TTK actually is right now. A proper proto player will die at most, never, against BPO and STD players. Moping out entire squads of them...ADV guys you have a chance, but let the forums dictate CCP and unless you bring proto... Well, you may as well not even exist. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
988
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Posted - 2013.11.16 09:50:00 -
[128] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:If you use proto and you die fast.... YOU ****** UP. It is not the games fault or the fact that you are too easy to kill. I held objective A in the one map with the silo that B is on top of it and people can jump into it, BY MYSELF, until people saw I was still down there and they stopped coming. I was in proto at the time, and I killed everyone that came at me, bro. Solo denial of an objective in my proto suit during a FW match. And you people want to give me more ability to slaughter the masses with increased time to kill? I am not even in the top echelon of good players and an entire team stopped attacking one guy in a Gallente proto assault suit. Yeah, you people have no idea about how good TTK actually is right now. A proper proto player will die at most, never, against BPO and STD players. Moping out entire squads of them...ADV guys you have a chance, but let the forums dictate CCP and unless you bring proto... Well, you may as well not even exist.
Please, stop with the ********. If you managed to do that, in this patch, you were using a tactic called camping, a twitch shooter tactic. Now I guess based on your responses you play with an assault rifle? or prehaps the scrambler?
Now the thing is you assume that because we don't like the current state of play, we all use proto and want to stand out in the open butchering people like rambo. We don't most people agree with me when I say 1.4 was nearly perfect, just a little bit longer would have been perfect!
We want trench warfare style battles, we want people exchanging shots behind cover, not mexican standoffs, we don't want 1 man area denial, we want squads to have to use tactics, not wolf packs and we don't want to win based on who fired first!
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
85
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Posted - 2013.11.16 09:53:00 -
[129] - Quote
I remember when you saw a heavy and you either A. Ran away or B. Hoped a Shotgun Scout was nearby to kill him or you had backup soon. Now it's "Oh look, a heavy." "Where?" "NVM, he's dead." Among other things.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Rowdy Railgunner
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
161
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Posted - 2013.11.16 17:14:00 -
[130] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:If you use proto and you die fast.... YOU ****** UP. It is not the games fault or the fact that you are too easy to kill. I held objective A in the one map with the silo that B is on top of it and people can jump into it, BY MYSELF, until people saw I was still down there and they stopped coming. I was in proto at the time, and I killed everyone that came at me, bro. Solo denial of an objective in my proto suit during a FW match. And you people want to give me more ability to slaughter the masses with increased time to kill? I am not even in the top echelon of good players and an entire team stopped attacking one guy in a Gallente proto assault suit. Yeah, you people have no idea about how good TTK actually is right now. A proper proto player will die at most, never, against BPO and STD players. Moping out entire squads of them...ADV guys you have a chance, but let the forums dictate CCP and unless you bring proto... Well, you may as well not even exist. Please, stop with the ********. If you managed to do that, in this patch, you were using a tactic called camping, a twitch shooter tactic. Now I guess based on your responses you play with an assault rifle? or prehaps the scrambler? Now the thing is you assume that because we don't like the current state of play, we all use proto and want to stand out in the open butchering people like rambo. We don't most people agree with me when I say 1.4 was nearly perfect, just a little bit longer would have been perfect! We want trench warfare style battles, we want people exchanging shots behind cover, not mexican standoffs, we don't want 1 man area denial, we want squads to have to use tactics, not wolf packs and we don't want to win based on who fired first! I was camping. I was sitting at objective A and my goal was to not allow the OPFOR to hack it. I succeeded. Proto gave me that edge because most of the people that rushed me were either BPO or STD. A few were AVD and 1-2 were proto. I held them all off and do you know why? Because I knew what my suit and fit could do, and I had an escape route that I had to use multiple times. My PRO Gal assault fit is 2 armor mods and 2 reps 1 complex damage mod and 2 shield extenders. I carry a duvolle and an smg +3 locus grenades. At the time that I was doing this I had a scanner in my equipment slot and I was screaming for someone, anyone, to drop a nano at A so I could resupply. Luckily for me the squad logi spawned on A after a death and gave me a few perks.
But proto is the reason I was able to do this. Proto is why I wasn't killed in the initial rush and the HP boost and damage I can do with a duvolle is what let it happen. Oh, and I have the most SP in weapons in ARs. Sure I am lacking in aspects. I am not anywhere near maxed for the suit I did this feat with. I understand what I can and cannot do though. So when people thought that they have overwhelmed me, WRONG, I just retreated only to pick you off one vs. one. |
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jin foxdale
Jedi Slime.
104
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Posted - 2013.11.16 17:34:00 -
[131] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:
There is a thing called "tactics" which now has a better chance of deciding a fight than gear. Have you ever tried "taking cover" or "falling back". I hear people QQ about the scanner being OP, maybe they should take off those "useless" armor mods and put on some profile dampners. People also QQ about the scouts being too easy to kill, I remedy this by not running into people like an assault, that's why the passive scanner is there and the suits have built in profile dampners. If you put 4 complex armor mods on a scout suit you deserve to die.
The argument keeps coming up "Why use proto or advanced now?" Good question and I've been asking that for awhile, I used standard and advanced in pubs. I use proto in PC matches and will likely use it in future FW where it matters. It won't make me invincible, but when I want a W it will give me the edge. If you buy expensive running shoes it won't help you win a marathon unless you're already a marathon runner. Why should and E sport be any different?
As someone with over 21 mil SP and 250 mil ISK, I've learned that proto gear won't do enough to justify wearing it in a match where victory doesn't mean more than an extra 100,000 ISK or 1,000 WPs. I still can and should be taken down by more organised players using better tactics, but I'll never prescribe to the idea that someone should always win because they have better gear.
Just to let you know, I enjoyed reading your eloquent post, and this thread as a whole. |
Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
906
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 18:46:00 -
[132] - Quote
I'm just happy hit detection works. As long as newberries don't have an option to play gamemodes that avoid proto pub stomps, the system as it is now is fine.
The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war.
SoonGäó514
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