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what reason is there really to run anything but a logi suit?

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Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1026	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:27:00 - [1] - Quote I keep asking myself this question... if I want a side arm ill run amar logi if I want to have the ehp of a heavy ill go gallente or caldari if I want to be fast (like a scout) kinkats ftw and hell, lets put on the minmitar logi suit for the hack bonus as a logi I have more equipment slots then any other suit so uplink/hive spam is no problem. I can be a slayer, a medic, support, I can scout, I can even be a heavy to a degree minus the heavy weapon, but aside from proto forge guns am I really missing out on anything? I really love playing this game, but lets face it, unless your trying to be different or made an honest mistake when applying sp to your tree, running anything other than a logi suit is a self inflicted nerf to your merc....
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4791	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:41:00 - [2] - Quote Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1026	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:46:00 - [3] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. but is that really going to change the tide of the battle... and how many wp are you going to get for yourself scanning? so you can scan farther... I can still scan well enough to find reds and then go toe to toe with them... yeah you can be more sneaky as a scout but the minute your presence becomes known youre a dead scout. im sorry but scan range and dampening just isn't enough of an advantage to pick that over a logi... plus I can just jump in an lav and use that to traverse the map looking for reds and jump out of it kill you and jump back in and ride off...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 237	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:46:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. When you have to put down 3 shotgun direct hit's to a well fitted Logi... the whole element of surprise factor slowly goes out the window.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 353	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:49:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, Below db 28
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1026	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:56:00 - [6] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist...
Cosgar ParagonX 6774	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:08:00 - [7] - Quote If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1027	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:15:00 - [8] - Quote Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them...
Cosgar ParagonX 6774	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:43:00 - [9] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1027	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:59:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. if youre getting tired of talking about the topic then what are you doing posting in my thread... either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air...

Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1306	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:02:00 - [11] - Quote Or you could just read any of the last dozen logi whine threads instead of making a new one and rehashing the same tired old arguments.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1027	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:07:00 - [12] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Or you could just read any of the last dozen logi whine threads instead of making a new one and rehashing the same tired old arguments. or I could add my voice to the cacophony cries for better balance in this game... that's what the forums are for, and if you agree with me then your just being a troll. if you disagree then you should tirelessly defend your stance... you've been around for awhile, you know how things work here... flood the forums with threads of a topic and you have a 50/50 chance ccp does something... remain silent .... and you have a 50/50 chance ccp does something....lol we are on the same side, we want an awesome game here, so quit being patronizing and participate...btw the links to your posts isn't working on my pc...
Meeko Fent expert intervention Caldari State 1332	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:10:00 - [13] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
Cosgar ParagonX 6775	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:27:00 - [14] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. That's like saying nerf assaults because they're better slayers than commandos and nerfing all the other weapons because the plasma cannon is a piece of ****. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1574	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:35:00 - [15] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. That's like saying nerf assaults because they're better slayers than commandos and nerfing all the other weapons because the plasma cannon is a piece of ****. Hmm I think just making the logi get the SAME slot load out as an assault and SAME HP and SAME PG/CPU with a base 50% reduction to equipment PG/CPU usage and 5% per level might do the trick... CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting... Level 1 Forum Warrior
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 955	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:37:00 - [16] - Quote I run Assault because I need a sidearm. I don't run Amarr because my clone definitely wants to look pretty. -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Cosgar ParagonX 6777	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:40:00 - [17] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: if youre getting tired of talking about the topic then what are you doing posting in my thread... either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... Well, since you're going to be lazy about it since the information is right there, let me dig it up for you: End of Assault v logi, post #6 Cosgar wrote: And here we go with another one. You can check my post history in better topics with better arguments and even better counter arguments on why logi > assault isn't true, but I'll break it down like this: If you fit a logistics suit to be fully tanked at the cost of equipment, it's gimped down to a slightly tankier, more expensive assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm. Sure, it might win a couple of 1v1 engagements, but Dust is a team based game, that's why we have squads and that's why we have heavy suits- to enforce the teamwork dynamic. This logistics vs assault drama has long been resolved when the CaLogi was nerfed. Back then, the CaLogi could have the highest buffer through its racial bonus, while still having an insane fitting flexibility thanks to its larger CPU/PG pool. Shield vs armor imbalance at the time also made the CaLogi more dominant as well over the other logistics suits- in fact, the Amarr actually needed a buff at the time. The killer bees died with the CaLogi, but people still complain because they want to blame something for their own shortcomings because through mental gymnastics, they believe that they can do no wrong. I die to assaults all the time, but I don't cry about it on the forums because the suit doesn't make the man. Are the assault's bonuses underwhelming? Depends on who you ask. Is there room for improvement through better assault bonuses? Ask any Gallente or Amarr assault if they shield tank. Scouts and heavies? Do I really need to ask? Is nerfing logistics the answer? Hell no! All it's going to do is screw over another niche role and if you look around, we have enough of that. I don't know what the other suits need, because frankly, I don't use them and it would be better for those users to look for ways to improve them instead of complaining about a role they don't play because they rather drag it down to their standards. This kind of nerf everything logic is like if I posted a topic to nerf all the other weapons because the plasma cannon sucks. End of Assault vs log, post #6 Kristoff Atruin wrote: You keep bringing up this idea that logis have drawbacks that can be covered up with modules and then using that to say they're the best at everything. Totally ignoring the fact that if you use a module to cover that weakness, you're not using that slot to max out your HP anymore. Suddenly the assault suit has more tank than you. The fact that many people have pointed this out and you continue to repeat this terrible argument is simply stunning. This is how fitting works. You can brick tank, you can be fast, you can stack damage mods, or you can carry high level deployables. No suit can do all of these at once, and if you think the logistics suits can then I want some of whatever you're smoking because it must be pretty good. End of Assault v logi, post #112 CharCharOdell wrote: if you really need that extra 80 HP then lol. ok. Fact is, the logi is a better defender than the assault suit, but it isn't as good at 'assaulting' because it doesn't have a backup weapon and it's slow. Yeah, a tanked logi will beat an assault in a straight up spreadsdheet battle, but an assault who plays like an assault can outmanuever long enough to get that 0.1 second headstart and nullify any 80hp advantage a logi may have. Plus, assaults get more relevant bonuses to their suits. Deal with it or play CoD. Reached my quote limit, but I'll dig up more if you want. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Meeko Fent expert intervention Caldari State 1332	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:43:00 - [18] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. That's like saying nerf assaults because they're better slayers than commandos and nerfing all the other weapons because the plasma cannon is a piece of ****. The PC came prenerfed. The assholes among us couldn't really hurt it anymore then what was done. The commando is getting buffed. It didn't fit where it originated from. Heavy frames don't have the same EHP is med frames, and the saw it and fixed it. The logi does fit together with the other to med frame styles, the basic and assault frame. 900 HP which the assaults can reach with a reasonably fit has nothing on the 1200 logis can achieve. Logis may move slower, but since the two suits fight within the same range, that doesn't quite matter. You seem to be angry that we are bringing this major balance issue up again. Would you rather logis still have such a large bonus over assaults that they have simlar HP values to heavies? If you are a true logi as you say, then why does having equal values to assaults bother you? Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 358	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:57:00 - [19] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... I"m not disagreeing that the scale is tipped towards the logi, it is. Heavies, assaults, and scouts in their respective threads all complain about their role being invaded by the logi, which is why logi defenders are tired, because they get it from all sides. I'm all for an equipment based class that can fight, I'm no light weapon slot thief Assault vs Logi in my mind is fine once you fix Assault racials by giving them a free light weapon complex damage mod or equivalent offensive utility. Heavy v Logi is on a per see basis after the changes, heavy racials need work too Scout v Logi is mainly the scout lacking unique utility to have any specific need for one Below db 28
Cosgar ParagonX 6778	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:00:00 - [20] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: The PC came prenerfed. The assholes among us couldn't really hurt it anymore then what was done. The commando is getting buffed. It didn't fit where it originated from. Heavy frames don't have the same EHP is med frames, and the saw it and fixed it. The logi does fit together with the other to med frame styles, the basic and assault frame. 900 HP which the assaults can reach with a reasonably fit has nothing on the 1200 logis can achieve. Logis may move slower, but since the two suits fight within the same range, that doesn't quite matter. You seem to be angry that we are bringing this major balance issue up again. Would you rather logis still have such a large bonus over assaults that they have simlar HP values to heavies? If you are a true logi as you say, then why does having equal values to assaults bother you? Because this logi witch hunt ended months ago but people are still carrying the torch with misplaced logic. The CaLogi's original racial bonus, high PG/CPU pool, superior module slot layout, the TAC AR, and shield/armor imbalance made the CaLogi the overall best suit in the game, hands down. In fact everyone was crying that all logistics were OP, but the Gallente needed a buff because of shield/armor imbalance and the Amarr logi was an absolute joke. TAC AR got nerfed, CaLogi got nerfed, (a bit too hard) and armor tanking got a much needed buff. Unfortunately the damage was already done and this misplaced logistics rage continues to go on while some assault suits have very underwhelming bonus thanks to a faulty tagging system CCP is using. It's gotten to the point that whenever someone even brings up logistics, we get another flurry of topics, rehashing the same arguments that get shut down by experienced logistics players until the next person butt-hurt from getting killed by someone in a yellow suit kills them. Hell, I get hate mail from people in proto suits that get killed by me and my day-to-day suit only has 530 effective HP. And as far as that true logi comment goes, I've been a Minmatar logi since Chromosome and still remember when people thought it needed a buff. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1115	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:06:00 - [21] - Quote You could run assault have a std equipment or sacrifice your proto gun...good luck fitting a siderarm and nades and you won't tank better than logis...but you will be slightly faster worth every bit
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 301	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:27:00 - [22] - Quote I'm a proto Cal Logi skilling into a proto Cal Assault suit because once hives/uplinks etc. are deployed, it's much easier to kill using an assault suit than a logi suit. The extra stamina, speed, and sidearm make a huge difference, not to mention the shorter shield recharge delay and higher regen rate on the Cal Assault vs. Cal Logi. It is better for my play style (surprise flanking w/dampeners) to use the Cal Assault, but if you're the type of player that just trades rounds with the opponent and wins by nature of more EHP, then a brick tanked logi fit might be better for you.
Cosgar ParagonX 6781	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:30:00 - [23] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I'm a proto Cal Logi skilling into a proto Cal Assault suit because once hives/uplinks etc. are deployed, it's much easier to kill using an assault suit than a logi suit. The extra stamina, speed, and sidearm make a huge difference, not to mention the shorter shield recharge delay and higher regen rate on the Cal Assault vs. Cal Logi. It is better for my play style (surprise flanking w/dampeners) to use the Cal Assault, but if you're the type of player that just trades rounds with the opponent and wins by nature of more EHP, then a brick tanked logi fit might be better for you. ^Pretty much sums it up. Assaults = Offensive, Logi = Defensive. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6789	Posted - 2013.10.29 21:13:00 - [24] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Kristoff Atruin wrote: Or you could just read any of the last dozen logi whine threads instead of making a new one and rehashing the same tired old arguments. or I could add my voice to the cacophony cries for better balance in this game... that's what the forums are for, and if you agree with me then your just being a troll. if you disagree then you should tirelessly defend your stance... you've been around for awhile, you know how things work here... flood the forums with threads of a topic and you have a 50/50 chance ccp does something... remain silent .... and you have a 50/50 chance ccp does something....lol we are on the same side, we want an awesome game here, so quit being patronizing and participate... No, what you're doing is flooding the forums with the current hot topic while more thought out and articulated ideas get completely ignored because you're making CCP/CPM's job that much harder. Ever heard of Cross Atu? He's had plenty of well thought out ideas, but thanks to forum spam, he goes ignored. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1095	Posted - 2013.10.29 21:24:00 - [25] - Quote Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. And it goes on and on. Have you got any 'balance' ideas? that kick in the face still looks good to me if you remember what I mean by that lol. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1032	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:58:00 - [26] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... I"m not disagreeing that the scale is tipped towards the logi, it is. Heavies, assaults, and scouts in their respective threads all complain about their role being invaded by the logi, which is why logi defenders are tired, because they get it from all sides. I'm all for an equipment based class that can fight, I'm no light weapon slot thief Assault vs Logi in my mind is fine once you fix Assault racials by giving them a free light weapon complex damage mod or equivalent offensive utility. Heavy v Logi is on a per see basis after the changes, heavy racials need work too Scout v Logi is mainly the scout lacking unique utility to have any specific need for one I really like your idea of giving a passive +10 to dmg that would help make a viable difference between salts and logis still, even with a passive boost like that, as a logi stands now, ill still take 3 equipment slots and 10% less dmg, if that's the only difference... logis need a defining draw back that make running them or not a real choice based on advantage to disadvantage... I challenge anyone to name one disadvantage of running a logi suit....
Cosgar ParagonX 6801	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:06:00 - [27] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... I"m not disagreeing that the scale is tipped towards the logi, it is. Heavies, assaults, and scouts in their respective threads all complain about their role being invaded by the logi, which is why logi defenders are tired, because they get it from all sides. I'm all for an equipment based class that can fight, I'm no light weapon slot thief Assault vs Logi in my mind is fine once you fix Assault racials by giving them a free light weapon complex damage mod or equivalent offensive utility. Heavy v Logi is on a per see basis after the changes, heavy racials need work too Scout v Logi is mainly the scout lacking unique utility to have any specific need for one I really like your idea of giving a passive +10 to dmg that would help make a viable difference between salts and logis still, even with a passive boost like that, as a logi stands now, ill still take 3 equipment slots and 10% less dmg, if that's the only difference... logis need a defining draw back that make running them or not a real choice based on advantage to disadvantage... I challenge anyone to name one disadvantage of running a logi suit.... If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6801	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:08:00 - [28] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. And it goes on and on. Have you got any 'balance' ideas? that kick in the face still looks good to me if you remember what I mean by that lol. Just made a topic I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Rinzler XVII Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 250	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:14:00 - [29] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. That's like saying nerf assaults because they're better slayers than commandos and nerfing all the other weapons because the plasma cannon is a piece of ****.[/quote] Hmm I think just making the logi get the SAME slot load out as an assault and SAME HP and SAME PG/CPU with a base 50% reduction to equipment PG/CPU usage and 5% per level might do the trick...[/quote] No stop trying to nerf something because it kills you The only issue is assault scrubs using logi suits and not filling the equip slots so they can fit proto everything else, the real solution to this is to just make all the equipment slots to have to be filled Look at the dropsuit builder the cal logi has serious problems fitting proto equipment since the cpu and pg nerf .. you basically have to use proto cpu enhancer proto pg enhancer drop your weap to adv, use a couple of adv modules just to use the top tier equipment even with maximum core skills and if you were to reduce the cpu and pg and reduce the slots on it then even with the 50% bonus potentially 75% it will basically kill the suit and make it useless ... the proto equip uses a lot of cpu and pg and even with a 75% reduction you are talking about alot of cpu and pg ... so really you;d have to remove cpu and pg entirely from equipment, remove equipment slots from ALL OTHER SUITS to justify the huge nerfs you've suggested When used as a logi suit they logi suits are perfectly fine as they are .. the real problem as i've said is assaults dropping equipment and using proto mods in the other slots your idea to fix the logi suits will break them .. I Fight for the User It's a shame that my user sucks at DUST
Cosgar ParagonX 6802	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:20:00 - [30] - Quote Rinzler XVII wrote: No stop trying to nerf something because it kills you The only issue is assault scrubs using logi suits and not filling the equip slots so they can fit proto everything else, the real solution to this is to just make all the equipment slots to have to be filled Look at the dropsuit builder the cal logi has serious problems fitting proto equipment since the cpu and pg nerf .. you basically have to use proto cpu enhancer proto pg enhancer drop your weap to adv, use a couple of adv modules just to use the top tier equipment even with maximum core skills and if you were to reduce the cpu and pg and reduce the slots on it then even with the 50% bonus potentially 75% it will basically kill the suit and make it useless ... the proto equip uses a lot of cpu and pg and even with a 75% reduction you are talking about alot of cpu and pg ... so really you;d have to remove cpu and pg entirely from equipment, remove equipment slots from ALL OTHER SUITS to justify the huge nerfs you've suggested When used as a logi suit they logi suits are perfectly fine as they are .. the real problem as i've said is assaults dropping equipment and using proto mods in the other slots your idea to fix the logi suits will break them .. EVE tried to shoehorn ships into specific roles and realized that binding players into a specific play style was counterproductive so they made everything available to everyone, regardless of play style. If you see a logi that ignores their slots to get extra tank, just laugh at them. They're basically just gimping themselves anyway. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Jrakraa5 ZilchmobZ Industries 16	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:25:00 - [31] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... well said Recruiting at ZilchMobZ Industries. visit my site here! ZilchMobZ
Cosgar ParagonX 6808	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:31:00 - [32] - Quote Jrakraa5 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... well said Notice that the OP would rather make his own topic instead of using the search function. Don't be like the OP. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:50:00 - [33] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: [quote=Oswald Rehnquist] but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... I"m not disagreeing that the scale is tipped towards the logi, it is. Heavies, assaults, and scouts in their respective threads all complain about their role being invaded by the logi, which is why logi defenders are tired, because they get it from all sides. I'm all for an equipment based class that can fight, I'm no light weapon slot thief Assault vs Logi in my mind is fine once you fix Assault racials by giving them a free light weapon complex damage mod or equivalent offensive utility. Heavy v Logi is on a per see basis after the changes, heavy racials need work too Scout v Logi is mainly the scout lacking unique utility to have any specific need for one I really like your idea of giving a passive +10 to dmg that would help make a viable difference between salts and logis still, even with a passive boost like that, as a logi stands now, ill still take 3 equipment slots and 10% less dmg, if that's the only difference... logis need a defining draw back that make running them or not a real choice based on advantage to disadvantage... I challenge anyone to name one disadvantage of running a logi suit.... If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:52:00 - [34] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Jrakraa5 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... well said Notice that the OP would rather make his own topic instead of using the search function. Don't be like the OP. now who doesn't pay attention to detail... I post in a lot of those threads buddy.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 676	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:01:00 - [35] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Cosgar ParagonX 6808	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:03:00 - [36] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:06:00 - [37] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp..
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:09:00 - [38] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. heres my fit young grasshopper.. all complex shield extenders minus 1 slot for an enhanced dmg mod... all militia plates... gek.... locus nade... rd9 link compact hive remote explosive.... all core skills to 5...
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1313	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:11:00 - [39] - Quote Not going to lie, it gets kinda boring running an assault logi so I went pro basic ck0 for the lolz and it's pretty fun _(* *)> <( . )> <----he's a penguin ~'''~'''~ Level 1 forum warrior :P
Cosgar ParagonX 6809	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:13:00 - [40] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. heres my fit young grasshopper.. all complex shield extenders minus 1 slot for an enhanced dmg mod... all militia plates... gek.... locus nade... rd9 link compact hive remote explosive.... all core skills to 5... That's a horrible fit, even by assault logi standards. I would do the math to make sure it's not invalid, but it's not worth it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 676	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:20:00 - [41] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:21:00 - [42] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. heres my fit young grasshopper.. all complex shield extenders minus 1 slot for an enhanced dmg mod... all militia plates... gek.... locus nade... rd9 link compact hive remote explosive.... all core skills to 5... That's a horrible fit, even by assault logi standards. I would do the math to make sure it's not invalid, but it's not worth it. lol... run it before you say its horrible... it does me fine... I can go toe to toe with a heavy, I have link support, small team or personal armor regen and ammo supply. remotes to cover objective/ set traps, and its less then 100k... bout 92k I believe (I use the bpo plates) put me in a lav ( bpo ishukone saga) and I have high mobility and a moving shield from fire ( as long as theres no av) I can jump in take out a few mercs and some of their equipment drop my own and get out... I have high survivability, if I switch out any equip slot for a repper or a stick im medic that can take quite a beating....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:26:00 - [43] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. to fit a duvolle with 5 in pg/cpu you still need a cpu upgrade... but that's running 3 equip slots still and youre just shy of 1k by maybe 60 ehp...
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 676	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:28:00 - [44] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. to fit a duvolle with 5 in pg/cpu you still need a cpu upgrade... but that's running 3 equip slots still and youre just shy of 1k by maybe 60 ehp... Yes, an assault can get to about that HP, have a Proto weapon, and a sidearm, an 1 equipment. Balanced. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:37:00 - [45] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. to fit a duvolle with 5 in pg/cpu you still need a cpu upgrade... but that's running 3 equip slots still and youre just shy of 1k by maybe 60 ehp... Yes, an assault can get to about that HP, have a Proto weapon, and a sidearm, an 1 equipment. Balanced. but you don't need the proto weapon on a logi...with a gek I can out last a tanked out proto assault with a duvolle plus I can drop a link and get back up to help me, and the repair and replenish our ammo with the hive... get me in CQC and I can have a trap set with an explosive to take multiple aggressors out... with over a 1k tank and a gek and a triage hive to stand in I can be Rambo for a short time... and if I have an lav close by I can jump in I could survive it to do it again... this is what a logi on his own can do... in a squad of them... we are unbeatable by any other team composite... 6 logies can fit their suit uniquely to cover every role needed for a well rounded team.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 677	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:46:00 - [46] - Quote Seymore Krelborn wrote: but you don't need the proto weapon on a logi...with a gek I can out last a tanked out proto assault with a duvolle plus I can drop a link and get back up to help me, and the repair and replenish our ammo with the hive... get me in CQC and I can have a trap set with an explosive to take multiple aggressors out... with over a 1k tank and a gek and a triage hive to stand in I can be Rambo for a short time... and if I have an lav close by I can jump in I could survive it to do it again... this is what a logi on his own can do... in a squad of them... we are unbeatable by any other team composite... 6 logies can fit their suit uniquely to cover every role needed for a well rounded team. I know you don't need proto weapons on a Logi. I hardly ever use them. I think a proto assault with a proto weapon would beat that fit assuming skill levels are equal. How many equipment do you have fitted? The point here isn't to make the Logi less effective at everything but equipment usage than an assault, but to make it worse at slaying than an assault. My solution would do just that. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:53:00 - [47] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Seymore Krelborn wrote: but you don't need the proto weapon on a logi...with a gek I can out last a tanked out proto assault with a duvolle plus I can drop a link and get back up to help me, and the repair and replenish our ammo with the hive... get me in CQC and I can have a trap set with an explosive to take multiple aggressors out... with over a 1k tank and a gek and a triage hive to stand in I can be Rambo for a short time... and if I have an lav close by I can jump in I could survive it to do it again... this is what a logi on his own can do... in a squad of them... we are unbeatable by any other team composite... 6 logies can fit their suit uniquely to cover every role needed for a well rounded team. I know you don't need proto weapons on a Logi. I hardly ever use them. I think a proto assault with a proto weapon would beat that fit assuming skill levels are equal. How many equipment do you have fitted? The point here isn't to make the Logi less effective at everything but equipment usage than an assault, but to make it worse at slaying than an assault. My solution would do just that. I certainly dont want to make the logi useless... I am one! what I think is that a logi should be the best suit to use for triage/support... make an assault best for slaying. right now a logi can do almost everything efficiently... it can even out preform other roles meant for those tasks. my whole point here isn't nerf the logi as much as it is make every suit do something really awesome that only that suit can do... right now those line are not defined with the logi in its current build.
Cosgar ParagonX 6817	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:41:00 - [48] - Quote See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1689	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:31:00 - [49] - Quote This thread again... 1. a purely brick tanked suit is not the best suit in the game. You're sacrificing DPS and speed to have a higher number, not to mention the fact that a high buffer is not always the best buffer. Stacking all platers with no repper on an amarr logi might get you a high number to troll the forum with, but it's a really bad way to fit an amarr logi. You're completely ignoring the suits strengths while making it extremely slow. The same goes for every single other fit. ignoring reps or damage mods just to get EHP as high as you can will end up getting you out DPS'd or whittled down due to lack of regen. 1.a no, triage hives are a **** poor replacement for reps. a small constant regen means much more to me than a rather boosting the buffer by less than 5 extra std level AR rounds w/o damage mods or levels in prof, not to mention the high cpu/pg reqs for those pieces of equipment. not to mention the fact that you'll be limited to restoring your massive buffer twice. 2. I have level 4 amarr logi and level 5 amarr assault. Comparing those two suits, I can tell you that one is not better than the other. They just fill different roles. there are no two ways about it - the assault is better at applying damage, and the logi is able to help move the line forward through use of hives and uplinks. two different, but equally important roles in combat. 2.a a part of that vitally important role of actually moving the line forward and establishing areas that people can spawn and restore ammo at the logi actually needs to not be an easy kill. 3. Assault bonuses tend to help in dishing out damage. The Amarr suit lets you dish out much more damage with laser weaponry, the minnie bonus makes your fall back weapon (or main anti-personnel weapon if you're running a specialized light weapon) more lethal, the Gallente bonus lets you stuff high level weapons onto a suit while maintaining a great tank and/or damage mods. the Caldari bonus is a bit of an outlier, but it's also flexible as you can take advantage of the bonus to brick your shield or squeeze in a couple damage mods while keeping a great tank without extenders eating all your highs, so it's rather decent. 3.a The Assault class bonus could use some work. the 5% per level to shield regen is more useful to some races than others, and even then a 5 extra hps per level to regen isn't all that impressive. That could use some work. 1% extra damage per level would be a pretty good bonus for all race's assault class. 4. in a contest between two medium weight suits skill should be the deciding factor. There is no reason that the logistics suit needs to be gimped when compared to any other medium frame. The logistics class has it's place in combat and it shouldn't be neutered just because people can get kills with them. that isn't the sole domain of the assault suit.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:13:00 - [50] - Quote Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does.

Cosgar ParagonX 6827	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:21:00 - [51] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:26:00 - [52] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. amar logi has a side arm.... look im talking THE WHOLE LOGI LINE... not just one race... logistics as in all suits between the 4 races cover everything... this takes me back to my original question.. why would I spec into any other role when I can just spec into the 4 races logi suits and have everything... no assault suit, no heavy and no scout is this versatile... I don't think you really even need to give the suit a nerf as much as they need to increase the cpu/pg needs of equipment. its those equipment slots + being able to have a 1k tank that makes the suit to flexible...
Cosgar ParagonX 6827	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:40:00 - [53] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. amar logi has a side arm.... look im talking THE WHOLE LOGI LINE... not just one race... logistics as in all suits between the 4 races cover everything... this takes me back to my original question.. why would I spec into any other role when I can just spec into the 4 races logi suits and have everything... no assault suit, no heavy and no scout is this versatile... I don't think you really even need to give the suit a nerf as much as they need to increase the cpu/pg needs of equipment. its those equipment slots + being able to have a 1k tank that makes the suit to flexible... And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:44:00 - [54] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. [quote=Seymor Krelborn]no one deserves a respec.... I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. amar logi has a side arm.... look im talking THE WHOLE LOGI LINE... not just one race... logistics as in all suits between the 4 races cover everything... this takes me back to my original question.. why would I spec into any other role when I can just spec into the 4 races logi suits and have everything... no assault suit, no heavy and no scout is this versatile... I don't think you really even need to give the suit a nerf as much as they need to increase the cpu/pg needs of equipment. its those equipment slots + being able to have a 1k tank that makes the suit to flexible... And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies...
Cosgar ParagonX 6828	Posted - 2013.10.30 07:01:00 - [55] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies... Just underlined the point that matters. They can't do everything in one fit. Fit the suit to tank, it's going to be slow, fit it with speed mods, it's going to be squishy, damage mods and armor? Might hit hard, but still no weapon to fall back on and still slow. You fit something, something has to be given up. Basic dropsuit fitting 101. Also, 6 of anything can be overpowered. Have you ever seen 6 shotgun scouts running in a pack? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
DeathwindRising Rogue Spades EoN. 113	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:09:00 - [56] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... a proto caldari logi suit with 515 shields and 288 armor takes 33.75 seconds to recharge its shield from 0 to 515. because its recharge is only 20 hp/s an proto caldari assault suit with 392 shields and 150 armor takes 8.4 seconds to recharge its shields from 0 to 392. because its shield recharge is 84.48 hp/s it would take that logi 27.6 seconds to recharge 392 shields... so unless all your enemies are standing out in the open or simply letting you shoot them, that logi suit isnt what you want to be in for multiple fights.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 17:39:00 - [57] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies... Just underlined the point that matters. They can't do everything in one fit. Fit the suit to tank, it's going to be slow, fit it with speed mods, it's going to be squishy, damage mods and armor? Might hit hard, but still no weapon to fall back on and still slow. You fit something, something has to be given up. Basic dropsuit fitting 101. Also, 6 of anything can be overpowered. Have you ever seen 6 shotgun scouts running in a pack? 6 shotty scouts would be a joke in the present build... you only underlined the part that matters to you and you still fail to comprehend my point... so I will type it in caps... A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. what I want from CCP is to make every suit amazing at doing something so there's a real choice between them. ill use eve as an example here... if I want to tackle I don't use a battle ship if I want DD, say, in an incursion, im not bringing a frigate. and certainly if I want to do either job with a logi ship I could but nowhere near as well as say a tackle rifter or a DD dominix are you getting it yet? I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... someone mentioned a passive 10% boost to dmg with assault suits... that would be awesome. or get those cloaks in the game and make scout suits the only one that can use them... that kind of stuff.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1694	Posted - 2013.10.30 17:59:00 - [58] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. AND IT CAN'T DO IT AS WELL AS A MORE SPECIALIZED SUIT. It can be a brick tank with a massive buffer, but the Heavy suit can beat it in terms of damage and the quality of the buffer. It can hold its own in combat, but the assault will be able to beat it in terms of speed, stamina and damage. It can be fit to be low profile, but a scout will be able to beat the crap out of it when it comes to speed, stamina, and has better a better native profile meaning that it will take fewer profile mods to drop it to a good level. Even though it can do all of those things, it also can't do all of those things at once. Seymor Krelborn wrote: I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... This I do agree with. I just don't think that there is all that grievous of a problem with the logi as some of these threads claim. The assault class bonus is not all that good, TBH. Buffing speed or damage instead of shield recharge rate would really help make the logi assault divide more visible. And CCP needs to give sweet sweet love to light frames, but we'll see how the scan range increase will change things.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 18:11:00 - [59] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. AND IT CAN'T DO IT AS WELL AS A MORE SPECIALIZED SUIT. It can be a brick tank with a massive buffer, but the Heavy suit can beat it in terms of damage and the quality of the buffer. It can hold its own in combat, but the assault will be able to beat it in terms of speed, stamina and damage. It can be fit to be low profile, but a scout will be able to beat the crap out of it when it comes to speed, stamina, and has better a better native profile meaning that it will take fewer profile mods to drop it to a good level. Even though it can do all of those things, it also can't do all of those things at once. Seymor Krelborn wrote: I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... This I do agree with. I just don't think that there is all that grievous of a problem with the logi as some of these threads claim. The assault class bonus is not all that good, TBH. Buffing speed or damage instead of shield recharge rate would really help make the logi assault divide more visible. And CCP needs to give sweet sweet love to light frames, but we'll see how the scan range increase will change things. this guy gets what im saying...while the logi cant do other suits roles perfectly it can do them much better than it should be able to. this doesn't mean nerf the logi... it means make the other suits so much better at their roles that a logi cant compete with filling those roles... right now a logi can do any job well enough that its the only real choice, for versatility and survivability.
Cosgar ParagonX 6863	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:11:00 - [60] - Quote So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

DeathwindRising Rogue Spades EoN. 116	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:27:00 - [61] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies... Just underlined the point that matters. They can't do everything in one fit. Fit the suit to tank, it's going to be slow, fit it with speed mods, it's going to be squishy, damage mods and armor? Might hit hard, but still no weapon to fall back on and still slow. You fit something, something has to be given up. Basic dropsuit fitting 101. Also, 6 of anything can be overpowered. Have you ever seen 6 shotgun scouts running in a pack? 6 shotty scouts would be a joke in the present build... you only underlined the part that matters to you and you still fail to comprehend my point... so I will type it in caps... A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. what I want from CCP is to make every suit amazing at doing something so there's a real choice between them. ill use eve as an example here... if I want to tackle I don't use a battle ship if I want DD, say, in an incursion, im not bringing a frigate. and certainly if I want to do either job with a logi ship I could but nowhere near as well as say a tackle rifter or a DD dominix are you getting it yet? I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... someone mentioned a passive 10% boost to dmg with assault suits... that would be awesome. or get those cloaks in the game and make scout suits the only one that can use them... that kind of stuff. the only assault suit that would make sense to have a damage boost bonus would be the minmatar. fits with their style more
Cosgar ParagonX 6864	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:50:00 - [62] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the only assault suit that would make sense to have a damage boost bonus would be the minmatar. fits with their style more I would be okay with assaults getting a damage bonus, but coupling another passive with the proficiency skill and damage mods could pose an issue, especially for heavies and scouts since this game would be balanced even more for medium frame vs medium frame than it already is. I'd rather see something like a fitting reduction on weapons so that assaults will always be better at fitting offensive gear like light weapons, sidearms, grenades and weapon mods to reinforce their offensive design without additional imbalance. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1036	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:17:00 - [63] - Quote Cosgar wrote: So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit...
Cosgar ParagonX 6877	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:23:00 - [64] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 297	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:32:00 - [65] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. AND IT CAN'T DO IT AS WELL AS A MORE SPECIALIZED SUIT. It can be a brick tank with a massive buffer, but the Heavy suit can beat it in terms of damage and the quality of the buffer. It can hold its own in combat, but the assault will be able to beat it in terms of speed, stamina and damage. It can be fit to be low profile, but a scout will be able to beat the crap out of it when it comes to speed, stamina, and has better a better native profile meaning that it will take fewer profile mods to drop it to a good level. Even though it can do all of those things, it also can't do all of those things at once. Seymor Krelborn wrote: I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... This I do agree with. I just don't think that there is all that grievous of a problem with the logi as some of these threads claim. The assault class bonus is not all that good, TBH. Buffing speed or damage instead of shield recharge rate would really help make the logi assault divide more visible. And CCP needs to give sweet sweet love to light frames, but we'll see how the scan range increase will change things. this guy gets what im saying...while the logi cant do other suits roles perfectly it can do them much better than it should be able to. this doesn't mean nerf the logi... it means make the other suits so much better at their roles that a logi cant compete with filling those roles... right now a logi can do any job well enough that its the only real choice, for versatility and survivability. LOL, yes, he gets about 10% of what you are saying. Look, we all agree (apparently) that logi's shouldn't be nerfed. As I've mentioned before in innumerable threads, a minor change to assault racial bonuses (i.e., armor bonus for gallente similar to the shield one for caldari, Amarr stays the same, not familar with the minnie assault so I cant say what's best for them) plus a minor, easily programmable and easy to understand change to all the logi suits - simply force them to fill all equipment slots - solves everything. Your argument about the logi suits being better comes down to being a jack of all trades but master of none. that's exactly what a logi should be! Your particular argument and how you are making it fall flat in several ways: 1) Are you really making the argument that "well I can just skill into all 4 logi classes and do everything"? Well no sh!t sherlock, and if I had the 30 million SP you'd need to do that properly I could make a wide variety of pretty bad ass suits for every situation too. They wouldn't be all Logis though, that's for sure. 2) Not a fan of your fitting, enhanced damage mods are useless imo. But, that's opinion, just like you thinking it's great. What would actually support your argument instead of just being more babble would be if you actually: - Gave the freaking stats for the damn suit! I know nothing about what kind of performance you get out of it or even if it's valid for that matter. - Make an optimized assault suit of the same race with the same type of skills/modules and actually SHOW US how it's not as good as the logi instead of closing your ears and repeating "mah suitz is awesom" over and over again like a 10 year old - If you read Checkmate's thread where he proved himself wrong about damage mods you would see the power of actually making the fits and comparing them head to head instead of just mindlessly spouting out the same specious and unsubstantiated arguments over and over again. PROVE. US. WRONG. 3) So, to make a logi suit to match a scout you need kin cats, dampeners, etc. That's SP you need to sink into that which you don't if you just run the scout. Same for armor plates like a heavy, kin cats and cardiac regs and energizers for assault, etc. That's even more SP. Again, making the argument that you can make an amazing logi suit with infinite SP doesn't mean the logi suits themselves need to be changed. 4) Well, actually, I'm done. Like Cosgar I've spent countless time making this argument in better threads with better counter-arguments, so this is all I need to say for now. Ninja spam artist/logistical nightmare Amarr victor!
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1036	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:34:00 - [66] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me. the amar logi can do what you ask easy... the PLC is LOL. I have a logi fit with swarms... 2 proxies and a hive... works quite well... and im sorry but the mechanics of this game are broken and right now the logi makes the best use of a broken system. lol you are so afraid of losing some phantom crutch that you blindly defend a flawed aspect of a broken game. you honestly think everything with the suits we have to use are fine?
Alam Storm Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire 20	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:49:00 - [67] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. by rights the assault class if i remember correctly are meant to be a well balanced all right class they are meant to be the main attack force not logis logis are meant to be support and defensive expect there more like support and offensive because of the logis currently are there really is no need to be an assault class
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4819	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:53:00 - [68] - Quote Regardless, I'm still not changing my mind about the scouts. I'm a scout player until the end of time. Period. Even if I'm offered a respec, I'll still be a scout. Why? Because I still see potential in them. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
m twiggz Eternal Beings 118	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:58:00 - [69] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: I keep asking myself this question... if I want a side arm ill run amar logi if I want to have the ehp of a heavy ill go gallente or caldari if I want to be fast (like a scout) kinkats ftw and hell, lets put on the minmitar logi suit for the hack bonus as a logi I have more equipment slots then any other suit so uplink/hive spam is no problem. I can be a slayer, a medic, support, I can scout, I can even be a heavy to a degree minus the heavy weapon, but aside from proto forge guns am I really missing out on anything? I really love playing this game, but lets face it, unless your trying to be different or made an honest mistake when applying sp to your tree, running anything other than a logi suit is a self inflicted nerf to your merc.... Your logic is flawed.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1037	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:59:00 - [70] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Regardless, I'm still not changing my mind about the scouts. I'm a scout player until the end of time. Period. Even if I'm offered a respec, I'll still be a scout. Why? Because I still see potential in them. I do too... (see potential) I just wish ccp would get around to realizing that potential. for all suits.

Alam Storm Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire 21	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:11:00 - [71] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: I keep asking myself this question... if I want a side arm ill run amar logi if I want to have the ehp of a heavy ill go gallente or caldari if I want to be fast (like a scout) kinkats ftw and hell, lets put on the minmitar logi suit for the hack bonus as a logi I have more equipment slots then any other suit so uplink/hive spam is no problem. I can be a slayer, a medic, support, I can scout, I can even be a heavy to a degree minus the heavy weapon, but aside from proto forge guns am I really missing out on anything? I really love playing this game, but lets face it, unless your trying to be different or made an honest mistake when applying sp to your tree, running anything other than a logi suit is a self inflicted nerf to your merc.... Your logic is flawed. ok flaw this logic assault are meant to be all round class main offensive and by rights have the highest defense of the light classes it can do PVP and PVV and yet the only thing it has for it is the fact all the suits can use a side arm logi is meant to be a support reviving people repairs throwing down hives and uplinks and defend the assault and heavy suits from behind but no its used as a front line assault suit it can do PVP and PVV pretty well if you have an amarr suit you can have a side arm its not sup post to have the highest defence but does heavys are spossed to have highest defense and very good attack not very good aim and are slow there spossed to go toe to toe with tanks and hold its own and yet because it was Nerf i can easily go against a fully proto heavy with adv gear and a gek at short range and win heavys are meant to take team work to take own min 2 or 3 players scouts are fast and can use scanners the best they are best suited with either a shotgun or a sniper in the mounts they are meant to be able to sneak around the battlefield and defend objectives and key points from far off what im trying to say is the logi isnt were its spossed to be it can do all of these things and more when it shouldnt
Alam Storm Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire 21	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:13:00 - [72] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Regardless, I'm still not changing my mind about the scouts. I'm a scout player until the end of time. Period. Even if I'm offered a respec, I'll still be a scout. Why? Because I still see potential in them. I do too... (see potential) I just wish ccp would get around to realizing that potential. for all suits. scouts seem like a good choose unfortunately being a heavy or assault may be a bad idea at the moment
Cosgar ParagonX 6891	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:14:00 - [73] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me. the amar logi can do what you ask easy... the PLC is LOL. I have a logi fit with swarms... 2 proxies and a hive... works quite well... and im sorry but the mechanics of this game are broken and right now the logi makes the best use of a broken system. lol you are so afraid of losing some phantom crutch that you blindly defend a flawed aspect of a broken game. you honestly think everything with the suits we have to use are fine? And here we go with more ad homienem. I never said that all the suits are balanced. The medium suits are in most cases aside from some of the assaults needing better bonuses. But you keep trying to perpetuate this misplaced ideal that a racial logistics suit is better than its assault counterpart but what it really comes down to is player preference. I have a Minmatar logi and I have a Minmatar assault- both at proto level. I like both suits equally but prefer the logi because I like the equipment dynamic. I use the assault because I'm one of the smart ones that runs sidearms as primaries. Neither one is outright better than the other, they just play different. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1039	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:22:00 - [74] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me. the amar logi can do what you ask easy... the PLC is LOL. I have a logi fit with swarms... 2 proxies and a hive... works quite well... and im sorry but the mechanics of this game are broken and right now the logi makes the best use of a broken system. lol you are so afraid of losing some phantom crutch that you blindly defend a flawed aspect of a broken game. you honestly think everything with the suits we have to use are fine? And here we go with more ad homienem. I never said that all the suits are balanced. The medium suits are in most cases aside from some of the assaults needing better bonuses. But you keep trying to perpetuate this misplaced ideal that a racial logistics suit is better than its assault counterpart but what it really comes down to is player preference. I have a Minmatar logi and I have a Minmatar assault- both at proto level. I like both suits equally but prefer the logi because I like the equipment dynamic. I use the assault because I'm one of the smart ones that runs sidearms as primaries. Neither one is outright better than the other, they just play different. notice there are no threads about salts scouts or heavies being too good? theres a reason ... they aren't notice how even logies make logi are too good threads? theres a reason... they are no balance. you can go down with the ship if you want but the minority of players who take your stance are either secretly happy with the advantage their suit has, or simply get gun shy when they think their stuff might get the community nerf bat request. or both.
Cosgar ParagonX 6894	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:39:00 - [75] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: notice there are no threads about salts scouts or heavies being too good? theres a reason ... they aren't notice how even logies make logi are too good threads? theres a reason... they are no balance. you can go down with the ship if you want but the minority of players who take your stance are either secretly happy with the advantage their suit has, or simply get gun shy when they think their stuff might get the community nerf bat request. or both. Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 297	Posted - 2013.10.31 02:45:00 - [76] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging? Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. Ninja spam artist/logistical nightmare Amarr victor!
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1135	Posted - 2013.10.31 02:47:00 - [77] - Quote To answer the thread's title- Speed :D :D
Cosgar ParagonX 6901	Posted - 2013.10.31 02:51:00 - [78] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Cosgar wrote: Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging? Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1040	Posted - 2013.10.31 02:57:00 - [79] - Quote Cosgar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Cosgar wrote: Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging? Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet. im in strong support of dust becoming a turn based rpg
Cosgar ParagonX 6901	Posted - 2013.10.31 03:36:00 - [80] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Cosgar wrote: Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging? Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet. im in strong support of dust becoming a turn based rpg Go play EVE and let FPS players play Dust. Dust needs to be an FPS with RPG elements, not the other way around. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1041	Posted - 2013.10.31 03:44:00 - [81] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Cosgar wrote: Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging? Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet. im in strong support of dust becoming a turn based rpg Go play EVE and let FPS players play Dust. Dust needs to be an FPS with RPG elements, not the other way around. lol.. I was joking... I want this to be a great fps.
Zatara Rought MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1454	Posted - 2013.10.31 07:48:00 - [82] - Quote I concur assault suits are almost eclipsed by logi's...but not quite. They have similar fittings but the assaults inevitably come out on top when the logi goes for reload....all other things per capita...so many 1v1's I lose because I have to reload and the assault suit has an smg that pwns me...most assault suits have similar hp or more...but are faster and their sidearm matters... Logi...most utility. Compared to them they cannot take a heavy 1v1 if skill is equal (HMG). They have more health...hopefully more dps... Compared to a scout is should come down to the surprise attack of the scout and the reactive time of the logi The best corp in the game runs a very effective scout that (while he often barely goes positive or mostly goes negative) he performs a very effective and indeed essential role in quickly locating enemy positions and throwing his body towards the hot spots of conflict, often the only one able to break through and kill a hacker as opposed to being gunned down like most would before you can get there. CCP has 2 sides of the brain. Problem is there's nothing right in the left brain and nothing left in the right brain.
Alam Storm Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire 21	Posted - 2013.10.31 11:42:00 - [83] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I concur assault suits are almost eclipsed by logi's...but not quite. They have similar fittings but the assaults inevitably come out on top when the logi goes for reload....all other things per capita...so many 1v1's I lose because I have to reload and the assault suit has an smg that pwns me...most assault suits have similar hp or more...but are faster and their sidearm matters... Logi...most utility. Compared to them they cannot take a heavy 1v1 if skill is equal (HMG). They have more health...hopefully more dps... Compared to a scout is should come down to the surprise attack of the scout and the reactive time of the logi The best corp in the game runs a very effective scout that (while he often barely goes positive or mostly goes negative) he performs a very effective and indeed essential role in quickly locating enemy positions and throwing his body towards the hot spots of conflict, often the only one able to break through and kill a hacker as opposed to being gunned down like most would before you can get there. the assault doesnt always come up on top it depends on how good the logi is at aiming a well kitted logi suit will have about 900 armor and 100 shields if kitted probably the logi can fit a couple of complex damage mods on and still have high amount of armor if the assault does this they loose alot of shields and because they have less CPU and 'pg prob the best they can do is have enhanced armor plating unless they get rid of the armor repair i agree a logi needs to reload making is vulnerable were the assault has a side arm but is the logi is good enough he can eat though the shields and armor of an assault before reloading its because logis can have high armor because of the suits ability to repair automatically they can use a half decent weapon and put 2 or 3 damage mods on making the 1 weapon they have over powering the assault cant do this without losing so much armor or shields and i have adv gallente assault with a gek 1 damage mod i can take on a full proto heavy at short and long range and 7 or 8 times out of 10 i can beat them


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