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DeathwindRising
Rogue Spades EoN.
116
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote: And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced.
no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies... Just underlined the point that matters. They can't do everything in one fit. Fit the suit to tank, it's going to be slow, fit it with speed mods, it's going to be squishy, damage mods and armor? Might hit hard, but still no weapon to fall back on and still slow. You fit something, something has to be given up. Basic dropsuit fitting 101. Also, 6 of anything can be overpowered. Have you ever seen 6 shotgun scouts running in a pack? 6 shotty scouts would be a joke in the present build... you only underlined the part that matters to you and you still fail to comprehend my point... so I will type it in caps... A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. what I want from CCP is to make every suit amazing at doing something so there's a real choice between them. ill use eve as an example here... if I want to tackle I don't use a battle ship if I want DD, say, in an incursion, im not bringing a frigate. and certainly if I want to do either job with a logi ship I could but nowhere near as well as say a tackle rifter or a DD dominix are you getting it yet? I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... someone mentioned a passive 10% boost to dmg with assault suits... that would be awesome. or get those cloaks in the game and make scout suits the only one that can use them... that kind of stuff.
the only assault suit that would make sense to have a damage boost bonus would be the minmatar. fits with their style more |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6864
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:50:00 -
[62] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:the only assault suit that would make sense to have a damage boost bonus would be the minmatar. fits with their style more I would be okay with assaults getting a damage bonus, but coupling another passive with the proficiency skill and damage mods could pose an issue, especially for heavies and scouts since this game would be balanced even more for medium frame vs medium frame than it already is. I'd rather see something like a fitting reduction on weapons so that assaults will always be better at fitting offensive gear like light weapons, sidearms, grenades and weapon mods to reinforce their offensive design without additional imbalance.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
1036
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:17:00 -
[63] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May.
cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post.
im promoting balance here...
im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately.
the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day.
with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in.
lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending.
what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one?
or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support
or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault
WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS????
WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT???
this is what my thread is about...give me real choices.
give me paper rock scissors.
or just have one effing suit... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6877
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:23:00 -
[64] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
297
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:
A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON.
AND IT CAN'T DO IT AS WELL AS A MORE SPECIALIZED SUIT. It can be a brick tank with a massive buffer, but the Heavy suit can beat it in terms of damage and the quality of the buffer. It can hold its own in combat, but the assault will be able to beat it in terms of speed, stamina and damage. It can be fit to be low profile, but a scout will be able to beat the crap out of it when it comes to speed, stamina, and has better a better native profile meaning that it will take fewer profile mods to drop it to a good level. Even though it can do all of those things, it also can't do all of those things at once. Seymor Krelborn wrote: I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them...
This I do agree with. I just don't think that there is all that grievous of a problem with the logi as some of these threads claim. The assault class bonus is not all that good, TBH. Buffing speed or damage instead of shield recharge rate would really help make the logi assault divide more visible. And CCP needs to give sweet sweet love to light frames, but we'll see how the scan range increase will change things. this guy gets what im saying...while the logi cant do other suits roles perfectly it can do them much better than it should be able to. this doesn't mean nerf the logi... it means make the other suits so much better at their roles that a logi cant compete with filling those roles... right now a logi can do any job well enough that its the only real choice, for versatility and survivability.
LOL, yes, he gets about 10% of what you are saying. Look, we all agree (apparently) that logi's shouldn't be nerfed. As I've mentioned before in innumerable threads, a minor change to assault racial bonuses (i.e., armor bonus for gallente similar to the shield one for caldari, Amarr stays the same, not familar with the minnie assault so I cant say what's best for them) plus a minor, easily programmable and easy to understand change to all the logi suits - simply force them to fill all equipment slots - solves everything.
Your argument about the logi suits being better comes down to being a jack of all trades but master of none. that's exactly what a logi should be!
Your particular argument and how you are making it fall flat in several ways:
1) Are you really making the argument that "well I can just skill into all 4 logi classes and do everything"? Well no sh!t sherlock, and if I had the 30 million SP you'd need to do that properly I could make a wide variety of pretty bad ass suits for every situation too. They wouldn't be all Logis though, that's for sure.
2) Not a fan of your fitting, enhanced damage mods are useless imo. But, that's opinion, just like you thinking it's great. What would actually support your argument instead of just being more babble would be if you actually: - Gave the freaking stats for the damn suit! I know nothing about what kind of performance you get out of it or even if it's valid for that matter. - Make an optimized assault suit of the same race with the same type of skills/modules and actually SHOW US how it's not as good as the logi instead of closing your ears and repeating "mah suitz is awesom" over and over again like a 10 year old - If you read Checkmate's thread where he proved himself wrong about damage mods you would see the power of actually making the fits and comparing them head to head instead of just mindlessly spouting out the same specious and unsubstantiated arguments over and over again. PROVE. US. WRONG.
3) So, to make a logi suit to match a scout you need kin cats, dampeners, etc. That's SP you need to sink into that which you don't if you just run the scout. Same for armor plates like a heavy, kin cats and cardiac regs and energizers for assault, etc. That's even more SP. Again, making the argument that you can make an amazing logi suit with infinite SP doesn't mean the logi suits themselves need to be changed.
4) Well, actually, I'm done. Like Cosgar I've spent countless time making this argument in better threads with better counter-arguments, so this is all I need to say for now.
Ninja spam artist/logistical nightmare
Amarr victor!
|
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
1036
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:34:00 -
[66] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me.
the amar logi can do what you ask easy... the PLC is LOL.
I have a logi fit with swarms... 2 proxies and a hive... works quite well...
and im sorry but the mechanics of this game are broken and right now the logi makes the best use of a broken system.
lol you are so afraid of losing some phantom crutch that you blindly defend a flawed aspect of a broken game.
you honestly think everything with the suits we have to use are fine? |
Alam Storm
Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:49:00 -
[67] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? *Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner* That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! *Calls in militia LAV* Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche.
by rights the assault class if i remember correctly are meant to be a well balanced all right class they are meant to be the main attack force not logis logis are meant to be support and defensive expect there more like support and offensive because of the logis currently are there really is no need to be an assault class |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4819
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
Regardless, I'm still not changing my mind about the scouts. I'm a scout player until the end of time. Period. Even if I'm offered a respec, I'll still be a scout.
Why? Because I still see potential in them.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
|
m twiggz
Eternal Beings
118
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:58:00 -
[69] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:I keep asking myself this question...
if I want a side arm ill run amar logi
if I want to have the ehp of a heavy ill go gallente or caldari
if I want to be fast (like a scout) kinkats ftw and hell, lets put on the minmitar logi suit for the hack bonus
as a logi I have more equipment slots then any other suit so uplink/hive spam is no problem.
I can be a slayer, a medic, support, I can scout, I can even be a heavy to a degree minus the heavy weapon, but aside from proto forge guns am I really missing out on anything?
I really love playing this game, but lets face it, unless your trying to be different or made an honest mistake when applying sp to your tree, running anything other than a logi suit is a self inflicted nerf to your merc.... Your logic is flawed. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
1037
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Regardless, I'm still not changing my mind about the scouts. I'm a scout player until the end of time. Period. Even if I'm offered a respec, I'll still be a scout.
Why? Because I still see potential in them.
I do too... (see potential)
I just wish ccp would get around to realizing that potential. for all suits. |
|
Alam Storm
Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 00:11:00 -
[71] - Quote
m twiggz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:I keep asking myself this question...
if I want a side arm ill run amar logi
if I want to have the ehp of a heavy ill go gallente or caldari
if I want to be fast (like a scout) kinkats ftw and hell, lets put on the minmitar logi suit for the hack bonus
as a logi I have more equipment slots then any other suit so uplink/hive spam is no problem.
I can be a slayer, a medic, support, I can scout, I can even be a heavy to a degree minus the heavy weapon, but aside from proto forge guns am I really missing out on anything?
I really love playing this game, but lets face it, unless your trying to be different or made an honest mistake when applying sp to your tree, running anything other than a logi suit is a self inflicted nerf to your merc.... Your logic is flawed.
ok flaw this logic
assault are meant to be all round class main offensive and by rights have the highest defense of the light classes it can do PVP and PVV and yet the only thing it has for it is the fact all the suits can use a side arm
logi is meant to be a support reviving people repairs throwing down hives and uplinks and defend the assault and heavy suits from behind but no its used as a front line assault suit it can do PVP and PVV pretty well if you have an amarr suit you can have a side arm its not sup post to have the highest defence but does
heavys are spossed to have highest defense and very good attack not very good aim and are slow there spossed to go toe to toe with tanks and hold its own and yet because it was Nerf i can easily go against a fully proto heavy with adv gear and a gek at short range and win heavys are meant to take team work to take own min 2 or 3 players
scouts are fast and can use scanners the best they are best suited with either a shotgun or a sniper in the mounts they are meant to be able to sneak around the battlefield and defend objectives and key points from far off
what im trying to say is the logi isnt were its spossed to be it can do all of these things and more when it shouldnt |
Alam Storm
Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 00:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Regardless, I'm still not changing my mind about the scouts. I'm a scout player until the end of time. Period. Even if I'm offered a respec, I'll still be a scout.
Why? Because I still see potential in them. I do too... (see potential) I just wish ccp would get around to realizing that potential. for all suits.
scouts seem like a good choose unfortunately being a heavy or assault may be a bad idea at the moment |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6891
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 01:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me. the amar logi can do what you ask easy... the PLC is LOL. I have a logi fit with swarms... 2 proxies and a hive... works quite well... and im sorry but the mechanics of this game are broken and right now the logi makes the best use of a broken system. lol you are so afraid of losing some phantom crutch that you blindly defend a flawed aspect of a broken game. you honestly think everything with the suits we have to use are fine? And here we go with more ad homienem.
I never said that all the suits are balanced. The medium suits are in most cases aside from some of the assaults needing better bonuses. But you keep trying to perpetuate this misplaced ideal that a racial logistics suit is better than its assault counterpart but what it really comes down to is player preference. I have a Minmatar logi and I have a Minmatar assault- both at proto level. I like both suits equally but prefer the logi because I like the equipment dynamic. I use the assault because I'm one of the smart ones that runs sidearms as primaries. Neither one is outright better than the other, they just play different.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
1039
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 01:22:00 -
[74] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me. the amar logi can do what you ask easy... the PLC is LOL. I have a logi fit with swarms... 2 proxies and a hive... works quite well... and im sorry but the mechanics of this game are broken and right now the logi makes the best use of a broken system. lol you are so afraid of losing some phantom crutch that you blindly defend a flawed aspect of a broken game. you honestly think everything with the suits we have to use are fine? And here we go with more ad homienem. I never said that all the suits are balanced. The medium suits are in most cases aside from some of the assaults needing better bonuses. But you keep trying to perpetuate this misplaced ideal that a racial logistics suit is better than its assault counterpart but what it really comes down to is player preference. I have a Minmatar logi and I have a Minmatar assault- both at proto level. I like both suits equally but prefer the logi because I like the equipment dynamic. I use the assault because I'm one of the smart ones that runs sidearms as primaries. Neither one is outright better than the other, they just play different.
notice there are no threads about salts scouts or heavies being too good?
theres a reason ... they aren't
notice how even logies make logi are too good threads?
theres a reason... they are
no balance.
you can go down with the ship if you want but the minority of players who take your stance are either secretly happy with the advantage their suit has, or simply get gun shy when they think their stuff might get the community nerf bat request. or both. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6894
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 01:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:notice there are no threads about salts scouts or heavies being too good?
theres a reason ... they aren't
notice how even logies make logi are too good threads?
theres a reason... they are
no balance.
you can go down with the ship if you want but the minority of players who take your stance are either secretly happy with the advantage their suit has, or simply get gun shy when they think their stuff might get the community nerf bat request. or both. Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
297
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 02:45:00 -
[76] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime.
In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums.
Ninja spam artist/logistical nightmare
Amarr victor!
|
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
1135
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 02:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
To answer the thread's title-
Speed :D
:D
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
6901
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 02:51:00 -
[78] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
1040
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 02:57:00 -
[79] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet.
im in strong support of dust becoming a turn based rpg |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6901
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet. im in strong support of dust becoming a turn based rpg Go play EVE and let FPS players play Dust. Dust needs to be an FPS with RPG elements, not the other way around.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
1041
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet. im in strong support of dust becoming a turn based rpg Go play EVE and let FPS players play Dust. Dust needs to be an FPS with RPG elements, not the other way around.
lol.. I was joking... I want this to be a great fps. |
Zatara Rought
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
1454
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Posted - 2013.10.31 07:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
I concur assault suits are almost eclipsed by logi's...but not quite. They have similar fittings but the assaults inevitably come out on top when the logi goes for reload....all other things per capita...so many 1v1's I lose because I have to reload and the assault suit has an smg that pwns me...most assault suits have similar hp or more...but are faster and their sidearm matters...
Logi...most utility.
Compared to them they cannot take a heavy 1v1 if skill is equal (HMG). They have more health...hopefully more dps...
Compared to a scout is should come down to the surprise attack of the scout and the reactive time of the logi
The best corp in the game runs a very effective scout that (while he often barely goes positive or mostly goes negative) he performs a very effective and indeed essential role in quickly locating enemy positions and throwing his body towards the hot spots of conflict, often the only one able to break through and kill a hacker as opposed to being gunned down like most would before you can get there.
CCP has 2 sides of the brain. Problem is there's nothing right in the left brain and nothing left in the right brain.
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Alam Storm
Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire
21
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Posted - 2013.10.31 11:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:I concur assault suits are almost eclipsed by logi's...but not quite. They have similar fittings but the assaults inevitably come out on top when the logi goes for reload....all other things per capita...so many 1v1's I lose because I have to reload and the assault suit has an smg that pwns me...most assault suits have similar hp or more...but are faster and their sidearm matters...
Logi...most utility.
Compared to them they cannot take a heavy 1v1 if skill is equal (HMG). They have more health...hopefully more dps...
Compared to a scout is should come down to the surprise attack of the scout and the reactive time of the logi
The best corp in the game runs a very effective scout that (while he often barely goes positive or mostly goes negative) he performs a very effective and indeed essential role in quickly locating enemy positions and throwing his body towards the hot spots of conflict, often the only one able to break through and kill a hacker as opposed to being gunned down like most would before you can get there.
the assault doesnt always come up on top it depends on how good the logi is at aiming a well kitted logi suit will have about 900 armor and 100 shields if kitted probably the logi can fit a couple of complex damage mods on and still have high amount of armor
if the assault does this they loose alot of shields and because they have less CPU and 'pg prob the best they can do is have enhanced armor plating unless they get rid of the armor repair
i agree a logi needs to reload making is vulnerable were the assault has a side arm but is the logi is good enough he can eat though the shields and armor of an assault before reloading
its because logis can have high armor because of the suits ability to repair automatically they can use a half decent weapon and put 2 or 3 damage mods on making the 1 weapon they have over powering the assault cant do this without losing so much armor or shields
and i have adv gallente assault with a gek 1 damage mod i can take on a full proto heavy at short and long range and 7 or 8 times out of 10 i can beat them |
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