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what reason is there really to run anything but a logi suit?

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Jrakraa5 ZilchmobZ Industries 16	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:25:00 - [31] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... well said Recruiting at ZilchMobZ Industries. visit my site here! ZilchMobZ
Cosgar ParagonX 6808	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:31:00 - [32] - Quote Jrakraa5 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... well said Notice that the OP would rather make his own topic instead of using the search function. Don't be like the OP. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:50:00 - [33] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: [quote=Oswald Rehnquist] but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... I"m not disagreeing that the scale is tipped towards the logi, it is. Heavies, assaults, and scouts in their respective threads all complain about their role being invaded by the logi, which is why logi defenders are tired, because they get it from all sides. I'm all for an equipment based class that can fight, I'm no light weapon slot thief Assault vs Logi in my mind is fine once you fix Assault racials by giving them a free light weapon complex damage mod or equivalent offensive utility. Heavy v Logi is on a per see basis after the changes, heavy racials need work too Scout v Logi is mainly the scout lacking unique utility to have any specific need for one I really like your idea of giving a passive +10 to dmg that would help make a viable difference between salts and logis still, even with a passive boost like that, as a logi stands now, ill still take 3 equipment slots and 10% less dmg, if that's the only difference... logis need a defining draw back that make running them or not a real choice based on advantage to disadvantage... I challenge anyone to name one disadvantage of running a logi suit.... If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:52:00 - [34] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Jrakraa5 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... well said Notice that the OP would rather make his own topic instead of using the search function. Don't be like the OP. now who doesn't pay attention to detail... I post in a lot of those threads buddy.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 676	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:01:00 - [35] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Cosgar ParagonX 6808	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:03:00 - [36] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:06:00 - [37] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! Calls in militia LAV Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp..
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:09:00 - [38] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. heres my fit young grasshopper.. all complex shield extenders minus 1 slot for an enhanced dmg mod... all militia plates... gek.... locus nade... rd9 link compact hive remote explosive.... all core skills to 5...
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1313	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:11:00 - [39] - Quote Not going to lie, it gets kinda boring running an assault logi so I went pro basic ck0 for the lolz and it's pretty fun _(* *)> <( . )> <----he's a penguin ~'''~'''~ Level 1 forum warrior :P
Cosgar ParagonX 6809	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:13:00 - [40] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. heres my fit young grasshopper.. all complex shield extenders minus 1 slot for an enhanced dmg mod... all militia plates... gek.... locus nade... rd9 link compact hive remote explosive.... all core skills to 5... That's a horrible fit, even by assault logi standards. I would do the math to make sure it's not invalid, but it's not worth it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 676	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:20:00 - [41] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:21:00 - [42] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you: -More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. heres my fit young grasshopper.. all complex shield extenders minus 1 slot for an enhanced dmg mod... all militia plates... gek.... locus nade... rd9 link compact hive remote explosive.... all core skills to 5... That's a horrible fit, even by assault logi standards. I would do the math to make sure it's not invalid, but it's not worth it. lol... run it before you say its horrible... it does me fine... I can go toe to toe with a heavy, I have link support, small team or personal armor regen and ammo supply. remotes to cover objective/ set traps, and its less then 100k... bout 92k I believe (I use the bpo plates) put me in a lav ( bpo ishukone saga) and I have high mobility and a moving shield from fire ( as long as theres no av) I can jump in take out a few mercs and some of their equipment drop my own and get out... I have high survivability, if I switch out any equip slot for a repper or a stick im medic that can take quite a beating....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:26:00 - [43] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. to fit a duvolle with 5 in pg/cpu you still need a cpu upgrade... but that's running 3 equip slots still and youre just shy of 1k by maybe 60 ehp...
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 676	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:28:00 - [44] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. to fit a duvolle with 5 in pg/cpu you still need a cpu upgrade... but that's running 3 equip slots still and youre just shy of 1k by maybe 60 ehp... Yes, an assault can get to about that HP, have a Proto weapon, and a sidearm, an 1 equipment. Balanced. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:37:00 - [45] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Make logis fill their equipment slots. Problem solved, now a Logi can't be a better assault, or a better heavy. Scouts need a buff anyway, and even assaults can make better scouts than scouts. they already can and still with over 1k ehp.. Now try to fit a proto weapon along with that...you can't. Now it's worse at assaulting than an assault. EHP isn't everything. If it was heavies would be OP. to fit a duvolle with 5 in pg/cpu you still need a cpu upgrade... but that's running 3 equip slots still and youre just shy of 1k by maybe 60 ehp... Yes, an assault can get to about that HP, have a Proto weapon, and a sidearm, an 1 equipment. Balanced. but you don't need the proto weapon on a logi...with a gek I can out last a tanked out proto assault with a duvolle plus I can drop a link and get back up to help me, and the repair and replenish our ammo with the hive... get me in CQC and I can have a trap set with an explosive to take multiple aggressors out... with over a 1k tank and a gek and a triage hive to stand in I can be Rambo for a short time... and if I have an lav close by I can jump in I could survive it to do it again... this is what a logi on his own can do... in a squad of them... we are unbeatable by any other team composite... 6 logies can fit their suit uniquely to cover every role needed for a well rounded team.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 677	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:46:00 - [46] - Quote Seymore Krelborn wrote: but you don't need the proto weapon on a logi...with a gek I can out last a tanked out proto assault with a duvolle plus I can drop a link and get back up to help me, and the repair and replenish our ammo with the hive... get me in CQC and I can have a trap set with an explosive to take multiple aggressors out... with over a 1k tank and a gek and a triage hive to stand in I can be Rambo for a short time... and if I have an lav close by I can jump in I could survive it to do it again... this is what a logi on his own can do... in a squad of them... we are unbeatable by any other team composite... 6 logies can fit their suit uniquely to cover every role needed for a well rounded team. I know you don't need proto weapons on a Logi. I hardly ever use them. I think a proto assault with a proto weapon would beat that fit assuming skill levels are equal. How many equipment do you have fitted? The point here isn't to make the Logi less effective at everything but equipment usage than an assault, but to make it worse at slaying than an assault. My solution would do just that. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:53:00 - [47] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Seymore Krelborn wrote: but you don't need the proto weapon on a logi...with a gek I can out last a tanked out proto assault with a duvolle plus I can drop a link and get back up to help me, and the repair and replenish our ammo with the hive... get me in CQC and I can have a trap set with an explosive to take multiple aggressors out... with over a 1k tank and a gek and a triage hive to stand in I can be Rambo for a short time... and if I have an lav close by I can jump in I could survive it to do it again... this is what a logi on his own can do... in a squad of them... we are unbeatable by any other team composite... 6 logies can fit their suit uniquely to cover every role needed for a well rounded team. I know you don't need proto weapons on a Logi. I hardly ever use them. I think a proto assault with a proto weapon would beat that fit assuming skill levels are equal. How many equipment do you have fitted? The point here isn't to make the Logi less effective at everything but equipment usage than an assault, but to make it worse at slaying than an assault. My solution would do just that. I certainly dont want to make the logi useless... I am one! what I think is that a logi should be the best suit to use for triage/support... make an assault best for slaying. right now a logi can do almost everything efficiently... it can even out preform other roles meant for those tasks. my whole point here isn't nerf the logi as much as it is make every suit do something really awesome that only that suit can do... right now those line are not defined with the logi in its current build.
Cosgar ParagonX 6817	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:41:00 - [48] - Quote See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1689	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:31:00 - [49] - Quote This thread again... 1. a purely brick tanked suit is not the best suit in the game. You're sacrificing DPS and speed to have a higher number, not to mention the fact that a high buffer is not always the best buffer. Stacking all platers with no repper on an amarr logi might get you a high number to troll the forum with, but it's a really bad way to fit an amarr logi. You're completely ignoring the suits strengths while making it extremely slow. The same goes for every single other fit. ignoring reps or damage mods just to get EHP as high as you can will end up getting you out DPS'd or whittled down due to lack of regen. 1.a no, triage hives are a **** poor replacement for reps. a small constant regen means much more to me than a rather boosting the buffer by less than 5 extra std level AR rounds w/o damage mods or levels in prof, not to mention the high cpu/pg reqs for those pieces of equipment. not to mention the fact that you'll be limited to restoring your massive buffer twice. 2. I have level 4 amarr logi and level 5 amarr assault. Comparing those two suits, I can tell you that one is not better than the other. They just fill different roles. there are no two ways about it - the assault is better at applying damage, and the logi is able to help move the line forward through use of hives and uplinks. two different, but equally important roles in combat. 2.a a part of that vitally important role of actually moving the line forward and establishing areas that people can spawn and restore ammo at the logi actually needs to not be an easy kill. 3. Assault bonuses tend to help in dishing out damage. The Amarr suit lets you dish out much more damage with laser weaponry, the minnie bonus makes your fall back weapon (or main anti-personnel weapon if you're running a specialized light weapon) more lethal, the Gallente bonus lets you stuff high level weapons onto a suit while maintaining a great tank and/or damage mods. the Caldari bonus is a bit of an outlier, but it's also flexible as you can take advantage of the bonus to brick your shield or squeeze in a couple damage mods while keeping a great tank without extenders eating all your highs, so it's rather decent. 3.a The Assault class bonus could use some work. the 5% per level to shield regen is more useful to some races than others, and even then a 5 extra hps per level to regen isn't all that impressive. That could use some work. 1% extra damage per level would be a pretty good bonus for all race's assault class. 4. in a contest between two medium weight suits skill should be the deciding factor. There is no reason that the logistics suit needs to be gimped when compared to any other medium frame. The logistics class has it's place in combat and it shouldn't be neutered just because people can get kills with them. that isn't the sole domain of the assault suit.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:13:00 - [50] - Quote Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does.

Cosgar ParagonX 6827	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:21:00 - [51] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:26:00 - [52] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. amar logi has a side arm.... look im talking THE WHOLE LOGI LINE... not just one race... logistics as in all suits between the 4 races cover everything... this takes me back to my original question.. why would I spec into any other role when I can just spec into the 4 races logi suits and have everything... no assault suit, no heavy and no scout is this versatile... I don't think you really even need to give the suit a nerf as much as they need to increase the cpu/pg needs of equipment. its those equipment slots + being able to have a 1k tank that makes the suit to flexible...
Cosgar ParagonX 6827	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:40:00 - [53] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. Seymor Krelborn wrote: no one deserves a respec.... no one should get a respec the assaults especialy don't deserve it these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. amar logi has a side arm.... look im talking THE WHOLE LOGI LINE... not just one race... logistics as in all suits between the 4 races cover everything... this takes me back to my original question.. why would I spec into any other role when I can just spec into the 4 races logi suits and have everything... no assault suit, no heavy and no scout is this versatile... I don't think you really even need to give the suit a nerf as much as they need to increase the cpu/pg needs of equipment. its those equipment slots + being able to have a 1k tank that makes the suit to flexible... And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:44:00 - [54] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post. [quote=Seymor Krelborn]no one deserves a respec.... I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. amar logi has a side arm.... look im talking THE WHOLE LOGI LINE... not just one race... logistics as in all suits between the 4 races cover everything... this takes me back to my original question.. why would I spec into any other role when I can just spec into the 4 races logi suits and have everything... no assault suit, no heavy and no scout is this versatile... I don't think you really even need to give the suit a nerf as much as they need to increase the cpu/pg needs of equipment. its those equipment slots + being able to have a 1k tank that makes the suit to flexible... And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies...
Cosgar ParagonX 6828	Posted - 2013.10.30 07:01:00 - [55] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies... Just underlined the point that matters. They can't do everything in one fit. Fit the suit to tank, it's going to be slow, fit it with speed mods, it's going to be squishy, damage mods and armor? Might hit hard, but still no weapon to fall back on and still slow. You fit something, something has to be given up. Basic dropsuit fitting 101. Also, 6 of anything can be overpowered. Have you ever seen 6 shotgun scouts running in a pack? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
DeathwindRising Rogue Spades EoN. 113	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:09:00 - [56] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... a proto caldari logi suit with 515 shields and 288 armor takes 33.75 seconds to recharge its shield from 0 to 515. because its recharge is only 20 hp/s an proto caldari assault suit with 392 shields and 150 armor takes 8.4 seconds to recharge its shields from 0 to 392. because its shield recharge is 84.48 hp/s it would take that logi 27.6 seconds to recharge 392 shields... so unless all your enemies are standing out in the open or simply letting you shoot them, that logi suit isnt what you want to be in for multiple fights.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 17:39:00 - [57] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced. no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies... Just underlined the point that matters. They can't do everything in one fit. Fit the suit to tank, it's going to be slow, fit it with speed mods, it's going to be squishy, damage mods and armor? Might hit hard, but still no weapon to fall back on and still slow. You fit something, something has to be given up. Basic dropsuit fitting 101. Also, 6 of anything can be overpowered. Have you ever seen 6 shotgun scouts running in a pack? 6 shotty scouts would be a joke in the present build... you only underlined the part that matters to you and you still fail to comprehend my point... so I will type it in caps... A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. what I want from CCP is to make every suit amazing at doing something so there's a real choice between them. ill use eve as an example here... if I want to tackle I don't use a battle ship if I want DD, say, in an incursion, im not bringing a frigate. and certainly if I want to do either job with a logi ship I could but nowhere near as well as say a tackle rifter or a DD dominix are you getting it yet? I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... someone mentioned a passive 10% boost to dmg with assault suits... that would be awesome. or get those cloaks in the game and make scout suits the only one that can use them... that kind of stuff.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1694	Posted - 2013.10.30 17:59:00 - [58] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. AND IT CAN'T DO IT AS WELL AS A MORE SPECIALIZED SUIT. It can be a brick tank with a massive buffer, but the Heavy suit can beat it in terms of damage and the quality of the buffer. It can hold its own in combat, but the assault will be able to beat it in terms of speed, stamina and damage. It can be fit to be low profile, but a scout will be able to beat the crap out of it when it comes to speed, stamina, and has better a better native profile meaning that it will take fewer profile mods to drop it to a good level. Even though it can do all of those things, it also can't do all of those things at once. Seymor Krelborn wrote: I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... This I do agree with. I just don't think that there is all that grievous of a problem with the logi as some of these threads claim. The assault class bonus is not all that good, TBH. Buffing speed or damage instead of shield recharge rate would really help make the logi assault divide more visible. And CCP needs to give sweet sweet love to light frames, but we'll see how the scan range increase will change things.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1035	Posted - 2013.10.30 18:11:00 - [59] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: A LOGI SUIT CAN COVER ALMOST EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME MAKING IT THE ONLY SUIT TRULLY WORTH SPENDING SP ON. AND IT CAN'T DO IT AS WELL AS A MORE SPECIALIZED SUIT. It can be a brick tank with a massive buffer, but the Heavy suit can beat it in terms of damage and the quality of the buffer. It can hold its own in combat, but the assault will be able to beat it in terms of speed, stamina and damage. It can be fit to be low profile, but a scout will be able to beat the crap out of it when it comes to speed, stamina, and has better a better native profile meaning that it will take fewer profile mods to drop it to a good level. Even though it can do all of those things, it also can't do all of those things at once. Seymor Krelborn wrote: I don't want a logi nerf. I want a buff to other suits that would give me a real choice about speccing in them... This I do agree with. I just don't think that there is all that grievous of a problem with the logi as some of these threads claim. The assault class bonus is not all that good, TBH. Buffing speed or damage instead of shield recharge rate would really help make the logi assault divide more visible. And CCP needs to give sweet sweet love to light frames, but we'll see how the scan range increase will change things. this guy gets what im saying...while the logi cant do other suits roles perfectly it can do them much better than it should be able to. this doesn't mean nerf the logi... it means make the other suits so much better at their roles that a logi cant compete with filling those roles... right now a logi can do any job well enough that its the only real choice, for versatility and survivability.
Cosgar ParagonX 6863	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:11:00 - [60] - Quote So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"



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