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Cosgar
ParagonX
6774
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Posted - 2013.10.29 18:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6774
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Posted - 2013.10.29 18:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6775
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Posted - 2013.10.29 19:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. see this is one of those "profound" internet comments that suggests the author has some deep understanding of the game the reader will never attain... try posting in some details yourself since you pay such close attention to them... Just check my post history. I have better comments in better logi vs assault topics, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself. Yup, because, ya'know, logis NEED the health of a heavy to support the team. Please explain to me WHY logis need that much potential HP/speed/scanning/support capabilities? *Makes a brick tanked logi build w/ active scanner* That takes care of the heavy and scout scout class! *Calls in militia LAV* Well, there you go! A logi build that encompasses the entirety of all the classes in DUST! Cosgar, look. Normalize slot count between the assault and logi, give logis a blanket bongs that actually helps true logibros such as yourself, and we are all happy. The super salts go back to normal salts, true logis get a befitting bonus, scouts and heavys maintain their niche. Even if the scouts and heavies need a little buff in their own niche, at least they are the only ones who can preform that niche. That's like saying nerf assaults because they're better slayers than commandos and nerfing all the other weapons because the plasma cannon is a piece of ****.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6777
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Posted - 2013.10.29 19:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:if youre getting tired of talking about the topic then what are you doing posting in my thread...
either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... Well, since you're going to be lazy about it since the information is right there, let me dig it up for you:
End of Assault v logi, post #6
Cosgar wrote:And here we go with another one. You can check my post history in better topics with better arguments and even better counter arguments on why logi > assault isn't true, but I'll break it down like this: If you fit a logistics suit to be fully tanked at the cost of equipment, it's gimped down to a slightly tankier, more expensive assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm. Sure, it might win a couple of 1v1 engagements, but Dust is a team based game, that's why we have squads and that's why we have heavy suits- to enforce the teamwork dynamic.
This logistics vs assault drama has long been resolved when the CaLogi was nerfed. Back then, the CaLogi could have the highest buffer through its racial bonus, while still having an insane fitting flexibility thanks to its larger CPU/PG pool. Shield vs armor imbalance at the time also made the CaLogi more dominant as well over the other logistics suits- in fact, the Amarr actually needed a buff at the time. The killer bees died with the CaLogi, but people still complain because they want to blame something for their own shortcomings because through mental gymnastics, they believe that they can do no wrong. I die to assaults all the time, but I don't cry about it on the forums because the suit doesn't make the man.
Are the assault's bonuses underwhelming? Depends on who you ask. Is there room for improvement through better assault bonuses? Ask any Gallente or Amarr assault if they shield tank. Scouts and heavies? Do I really need to ask? Is nerfing logistics the answer? Hell no! All it's going to do is screw over another niche role and if you look around, we have enough of that. I don't know what the other suits need, because frankly, I don't use them and it would be better for those users to look for ways to improve them instead of complaining about a role they don't play because they rather drag it down to their standards. This kind of nerf everything logic is like if I posted a topic to nerf all the other weapons because the plasma cannon sucks.
End of Assault vs log, post #6
Kristoff Atruin wrote:You keep bringing up this idea that logis have drawbacks that can be covered up with modules and then using that to say they're the best at everything. Totally ignoring the fact that if you use a module to cover that weakness, you're not using that slot to max out your HP anymore. Suddenly the assault suit has more tank than you. The fact that many people have pointed this out and you continue to repeat this terrible argument is simply stunning.
This is how fitting works. You can brick tank, you can be fast, you can stack damage mods, or you can carry high level deployables. No suit can do all of these at once, and if you think the logistics suits can then I want some of whatever you're smoking because it must be pretty good. End of Assault v logi, post #112
CharCharOdell wrote:if you really need that extra 80 HP then lol. ok.
Fact is, the logi is a better defender than the assault suit, but it isn't as good at 'assaulting' because it doesn't have a backup weapon and it's slow. Yeah, a tanked logi will beat an assault in a straight up spreadsdheet battle, but an assault who plays like an assault can outmanuever long enough to get that 0.1 second headstart and nullify any 80hp advantage a logi may have.
Plus, assaults get more relevant bonuses to their suits.
Deal with it or play CoD. Reached my quote limit, but I'll dig up more if you want.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6778
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Posted - 2013.10.29 20:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote: The PC came prenerfed. The assholes among us couldn't really hurt it anymore then what was done.
The commando is getting buffed. It didn't fit where it originated from. Heavy frames don't have the same EHP is med frames, and the saw it and fixed it.
The logi does fit together with the other to med frame styles, the basic and assault frame.
900 HP which the assaults can reach with a reasonably fit has nothing on the 1200 logis can achieve.
Logis may move slower, but since the two suits fight within the same range, that doesn't quite matter.
You seem to be angry that we are bringing this major balance issue up again.
Would you rather logis still have such a large bonus over assaults that they have simlar HP values to heavies?
If you are a true logi as you say, then why does having equal values to assaults bother you?
Because this logi witch hunt ended months ago but people are still carrying the torch with misplaced logic. The CaLogi's original racial bonus, high PG/CPU pool, superior module slot layout, the TAC AR, and shield/armor imbalance made the CaLogi the overall best suit in the game, hands down. In fact everyone was crying that all logistics were OP, but the Gallente needed a buff because of shield/armor imbalance and the Amarr logi was an absolute joke. TAC AR got nerfed, CaLogi got nerfed, (a bit too hard) and armor tanking got a much needed buff.
Unfortunately the damage was already done and this misplaced logistics rage continues to go on while some assault suits have very underwhelming bonus thanks to a faulty tagging system CCP is using. It's gotten to the point that whenever someone even brings up logistics, we get another flurry of topics, rehashing the same arguments that get shut down by experienced logistics players until the next person butt-hurt from getting killed by someone in a yellow suit kills them. Hell, I get hate mail from people in proto suits that get killed by me and my day-to-day suit only has 530 effective HP.
And as far as that true logi comment goes, I've been a Minmatar logi since Chromosome and still remember when people thought it needed a buff.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6781
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Posted - 2013.10.29 20:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I'm a proto Cal Logi skilling into a proto Cal Assault suit because once hives/uplinks etc. are deployed, it's much easier to kill using an assault suit than a logi suit. The extra stamina, speed, and sidearm make a huge difference, not to mention the shorter shield recharge delay and higher regen rate on the Cal Assault vs. Cal Logi.
It is better for my play style (surprise flanking w/dampeners) to use the Cal Assault, but if you're the type of player that just trades rounds with the opponent and wins by nature of more EHP, then a brick tanked logi fit might be better for you. ^Pretty much sums it up. Assaults = Offensive, Logi = Defensive.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6789
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Posted - 2013.10.29 21:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:Or you could just read any of the last dozen logi whine threads instead of making a new one and rehashing the same tired old arguments. or I could add my voice to the cacophony cries for better balance in this game... that's what the forums are for, and if you agree with me then your just being a troll. if you disagree then you should tirelessly defend your stance... you've been around for awhile, you know how things work here... flood the forums with threads of a topic and you have a 50/50 chance ccp does something... remain silent .... and you have a 50/50 chance ccp does something....lol we are on the same side, we want an awesome game here, so quit being patronizing and participate... No, what you're doing is flooding the forums with the current hot topic while more thought out and articulated ideas get completely ignored because you're making CCP/CPM's job that much harder. Ever heard of Cross Atu? He's had plenty of well thought out ideas, but thanks to forum spam, he goes ignored.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6801
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Posted - 2013.10.30 00:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Your logi will never be able to compete with the scout's passive scan range, and profile dampening. Profile dampening is easily negligible, all they need is to get that below 28, which is doable if they wanted a scout build Now the new changes to passive scans will not be able to be breached by the logi Also the new buff the heavy armor will help the heavy separate itself from the logi, but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... I"m not disagreeing that the scale is tipped towards the logi, it is. Heavies, assaults, and scouts in their respective threads all complain about their role being invaded by the logi, which is why logi defenders are tired, because they get it from all sides. I'm all for an equipment based class that can fight, I'm no light weapon slot thief Assault vs Logi in my mind is fine once you fix Assault racials by giving them a free light weapon complex damage mod or equivalent offensive utility. Heavy v Logi is on a per see basis after the changes, heavy racials need work too Scout v Logi is mainly the scout lacking unique utility to have any specific need for one I really like your idea of giving a passive +10 to dmg that would help make a viable difference between salts and logis still, even with a passive boost like that, as a logi stands now, ill still take 3 equipment slots and 10% less dmg, if that's the only difference... logis need a defining draw back that make running them or not a real choice based on advantage to disadvantage... I challenge anyone to name one disadvantage of running a logi suit....
If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you:
-More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6801
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 00:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Cosgar wrote:If you're asking this question, you have no attention for detail. And it goes on and on. Have you got any 'balance' ideas? that kick in the face still looks good to me if you remember what I mean by that lol. Just made a topic
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6802
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Posted - 2013.10.30 00:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rinzler XVII wrote:
No stop trying to nerf something because it kills you
The only issue is assault scrubs using logi suits and not filling the equip slots so they can fit proto everything else, the real solution to this is to just make all the equipment slots to have to be filled
Look at the dropsuit builder the cal logi has serious problems fitting proto equipment since the cpu and pg nerf .. you basically have to use proto cpu enhancer proto pg enhancer drop your weap to adv, use a couple of adv modules just to use the top tier equipment even with maximum core skills and if you were to reduce the cpu and pg and reduce the slots on it then even with the 50% bonus potentially 75% it will basically kill the suit and make it useless ... the proto equip uses a lot of cpu and pg and even with a 75% reduction you are talking about alot of cpu and pg ... so really you;d have to remove cpu and pg entirely from equipment, remove equipment slots from ALL OTHER SUITS to justify the huge nerfs you've suggested
When used as a logi suit they logi suits are perfectly fine as they are .. the real problem as i've said is assaults dropping equipment and using proto mods in the other slots your idea to fix the logi suits will break them ..
EVE tried to shoehorn ships into specific roles and realized that binding players into a specific play style was counterproductive so they made everything available to everyone, regardless of play style. If you see a logi that ignores their slots to get extra tank, just laugh at them. They're basically just gimping themselves anyway.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6808
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Posted - 2013.10.30 00:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jrakraa5 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:either add something to the conversation or don't waste your time... but I cant take you seriously with your nose stuck so far up in the air... well said Notice that the OP would rather make his own topic instead of using the search function. Don't be like the OP.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6808
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:
If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you:
-More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection
more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR.
But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6809
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Posted - 2013.10.30 01:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:
If you payed attention to the 520345380 logi vs assault topics before you:
-More expensive -More reliant on modules than base stats -More SP intensive -Slower -Less stamina -Less base stats -No sidearm on 3 suits (Amarr assault has better offensive bonus than logi) -Bright yellow -Limited weapon selection
more expensive... my cal logi 5 with 1029 ehp a triage hive rd 9 link and re is LESS than 100k... more reliant on mods blah blah... and makes excellent use of them making them superior to any other roles suit. more sp intensive...not much more and only if you mean the sp to get the use of good equipment... and equipment isn't exclusive to the logi. slower... not with a kinkat and with over 1000 ehp, who cares. less stam...not enough to make it a a real draw back and again it can be compensated with biotics. less base stats... who cares when your modded up... I can still out tank an assault. no side arm... but I cancarry 3 - 4 hives if I wanted... im a walking supply depot... and if I fit complex dmg mods in highs and run a duvolle, do I really need a pistol? bight yellow... now you just sound desperate... ok sure in the grass and forest I stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait... what grass and forest? limited weapon selection...I can use anything except heavy weapons...ridiculous. I'm going to call bull **** based on that underlined portion. CaLogi has the lowest CPU/PG out of all the logistics suits. There's no way that you can have EHP that high, with a Duvolle, Triage Hives, Kin Cat, Regulator, all at the same time. You have to give something up and most likely fit an CPU and/or PG enhancer in your lows to even pull off a portion of that. You just confirmed that there isn't an issue with balance because to fit something, you have to give something up- even if you leave your equipment slots empty, you're just a gimped assault with no sidearm that's barely faster than a heavy. If you equip speed mods, you don't have enough PG for all complex shields and probably have to downgrade that Duvolle to a GEK, and most likely have to give up some armor- good luck against a SCR. But if you want to prove me wrong, put your ISK where your mouth is or show me this amazing logistics fit that does everything or don't bother responding anymore. heres my fit young grasshopper.. all complex shield extenders minus 1 slot for an enhanced dmg mod... all militia plates... gek.... locus nade... rd9 link compact hive remote explosive.... all core skills to 5... That's a horrible fit, even by assault logi standards. I would do the math to make sure it's not invalid, but it's not worth it.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6817
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Posted - 2013.10.30 02:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post.
Seymor Krelborn wrote:no one deserves a respec....
no one should get a respec
the assaults especialy don't deserve it
these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6827
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Posted - 2013.10.30 06:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post.Seymor Krelborn wrote:no one deserves a respec....
no one should get a respec
the assaults especialy don't deserve it
these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6827
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 06:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:See, your problem, like everyone before you is that you don't listen to reason. I've said my peace, proven you wrong because you still won't disclose this fabled logistics fit that's better than an assault in all areas- at the same time and you continue to prattle on like you're the resident expert on dropsuit balancing and defined roles. Worst of all you didn't use any kind of evidence that a logistics may be better than an assault, like everyone before you. The ones that did, proved it was the Caldari suit, CCP stepped in and that's the reason why you can't equip everything proto on your suit anymore. In fact you were satisfied with the changes according to this post.Seymor Krelborn wrote:no one deserves a respec....
no one should get a respec
the assaults especialy don't deserve it
these tears are good for the rainforests.... In fact you did your fair share of trolling after the CaLogi nerf and suddenly they're better assaults again. Yeah, I'm going to have to conclude that you're full of it. I gave you my fit... and your quote of me doesn't prove any point.... that QQ was ridiculous, and I trolled it. but im not looking for a nerf im looking for balance... the truth is ALL logi suits have an extreme amount of versatility to all other suits and they shouldn't... they should be really good at triage/support and not so good at assault, or scouting, period. and I never said one fit does it all... im saying 1 suit does it all... the logi suit... and it does. And with all the logi hate going on, yet no response, even the devs think you're wrong. Less base stats, no sidearm and more slots vs better base stats, a sidearm but less slots. Can't spell it out any more for you. You just choose not to listen. amar logi has a side arm.... look im talking THE WHOLE LOGI LINE... not just one race... logistics as in all suits between the 4 races cover everything... this takes me back to my original question.. why would I spec into any other role when I can just spec into the 4 races logi suits and have everything... no assault suit, no heavy and no scout is this versatile... I don't think you really even need to give the suit a nerf as much as they need to increase the cpu/pg needs of equipment. its those equipment slots + being able to have a 1k tank that makes the suit to flexible... And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6828
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Posted - 2013.10.30 07:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote: And again, a logistics suit might match or surpass another role in one aspect, but they can't all at the same time. The CaLogi used to, but was re-balanced, the other suits can't be better than another aspect that another suit without being severely gimped in another. 1k HP is nothing if you can't move worth a **** when you need to, and you're pretty much dead once you have to reload. Again, balanced.
no they cant do everything in one fit... but a squad of 6 can... and yes you may be slower... so you keep an lav and/or cover near by... the suit isn't supposed to do it all for you, the player's skill is a big part of it... but theres no real choice right now, logis are the best suits, that's why scouts and heavies are so upset and why most assaults are logies... Just underlined the point that matters. They can't do everything in one fit. Fit the suit to tank, it's going to be slow, fit it with speed mods, it's going to be squishy, damage mods and armor? Might hit hard, but still no weapon to fall back on and still slow. You fit something, something has to be given up. Basic dropsuit fitting 101.
Also, 6 of anything can be overpowered. Have you ever seen 6 shotgun scouts running in a pack?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6863
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Posted - 2013.10.30 21:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6864
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Posted - 2013.10.30 21:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:the only assault suit that would make sense to have a damage boost bonus would be the minmatar. fits with their style more I would be okay with assaults getting a damage bonus, but coupling another passive with the proficiency skill and damage mods could pose an issue, especially for heavies and scouts since this game would be balanced even more for medium frame vs medium frame than it already is. I'd rather see something like a fitting reduction on weapons so that assaults will always be better at fitting offensive gear like light weapons, sidearms, grenades and weapon mods to reinforce their offensive design without additional imbalance.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6877
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Posted - 2013.10.30 23:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6891
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:So now you're about buffing assaults instead of nerfing logistics to save face. I've been saying that since May. cosgar... for someone who said they were so acutely aware of detail, you failed miserably at identifying them in my post. im promoting balance here... im saying why would I choose any suit but logistics when its the best at servicing a multitude of purposes adequately. the other suits don't have that versatility and on a living battlefield, where the suit you needed 5 minutes ago no longer serves in as useful a capacity versatility wins the day. with 3 - 4 equipment slots, plus fitting for either speed, tank, or dmg or a decent combo, my logi suit is never the wrong suit to deploy in. lets say im running an amar logi... I can fit a swarm launcher or md plus an smg, and take care of vehicles, then use my repper/hives /stick or links to provide excellent triage support PLUS have an smg for assaulting or defending. what other suit can be av/ assault/ medic all in one? or I go full brick tank on a cal or gal and go assault/medic/support or run a mini for quick hacks with kinkats and scans, still run a beast tank with links and go scout/assault WHAT OTHER SUIT CAN DO ALL THIS???? WHY WOULD I WANT TO WEAR ANY OTHER SUIT??? this is what my thread is about...give me real choices. give me paper rock scissors. or just have one effing suit... And you've missed the concept of incomparables. Incomparables are different game mechanics that players can argue over which is better until the end of time because neither one is better than the other, just better in different areas. A logistics can't be better at slaying than an assault because both use weapons in an FPS. The assaults have better firepower and the logistics have better defense. Assaults can use a better variety of weapons since some are reliant on sidearms to be effective and logistics can only use one weapon. Try using a swarm launcher, plasma cannon, laser, or sniper rifle with your CaLogi and see how much better you are than an assault and get back to me. the amar logi can do what you ask easy... the PLC is LOL. I have a logi fit with swarms... 2 proxies and a hive... works quite well... and im sorry but the mechanics of this game are broken and right now the logi makes the best use of a broken system. lol you are so afraid of losing some phantom crutch that you blindly defend a flawed aspect of a broken game. you honestly think everything with the suits we have to use are fine? And here we go with more ad homienem.
I never said that all the suits are balanced. The medium suits are in most cases aside from some of the assaults needing better bonuses. But you keep trying to perpetuate this misplaced ideal that a racial logistics suit is better than its assault counterpart but what it really comes down to is player preference. I have a Minmatar logi and I have a Minmatar assault- both at proto level. I like both suits equally but prefer the logi because I like the equipment dynamic. I use the assault because I'm one of the smart ones that runs sidearms as primaries. Neither one is outright better than the other, they just play different.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6894
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:notice there are no threads about salts scouts or heavies being too good?
theres a reason ... they aren't
notice how even logies make logi are too good threads?
theres a reason... they are
no balance.
you can go down with the ship if you want but the minority of players who take your stance are either secretly happy with the advantage their suit has, or simply get gun shy when they think their stuff might get the community nerf bat request. or both. Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6901
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
6901
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Cosgar wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me that somehow logistics suits are the best in the game or are you going to continue your artful dodging?
Well put. The logis who put out nerf logi threads are trying to head off the nerf talk. They didn't initiate it. Example: Tech likes his SMGs and is a beast with them, so if there's going to be a nerf he's trying to spin the argument so his style of play is less affected. He said himself he doesn't want a nerf but if there is one he is going to try and soften the blow, like a college football team that suspends a player before the NCAA cracks down on them harder then they do themselves. It's a protective mechanism. Of note, I managed to convince him that a sidearm only change was too damaging to the class as a whole so he is no longer advocating it. I used actual facts, you should try it sometime. In the end, it matters less than you think. Contrary to popular belief, CCP doesn't reflexively nerf everything that the river of tears on the forums leads them to, at least not anymore. The upcoming nerf to forge guns is quite mild and comes months after the QQ started. Remember the constant whining about MDs after the flaylock nerf? Seen any major changes to the MD lately? While they don't necessarily take the subtle approach to their adjustments every time, they do actually gather some data first. Like, actual numerical data, not the "data" people vomit out from their addled minds on the forums. I'm practicing using every sidearm on my Minmatar logi. That's how much faith I have in CCP. Been here since beta and slowly seen just about everything FPS related slowly decaying away from this game update after update, I'm surprised this isn't a turned based RPG yet. im in strong support of dust becoming a turn based rpg Go play EVE and let FPS players play Dust. Dust needs to be an FPS with RPG elements, not the other way around.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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