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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
208
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Great idea +1
It's also good to see something like this kind of threads from time to time other than the usual whining, b!tches threatening to leave but end up staying because nobody cared, and the constant "look at me i have this! i do this!"
I hope they'll implement this.. |
Kain Spero
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2134
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Also just thought about a small issue to work around: What if the trains crash? Like say one train the defenders keep winning the initial Ambush and catch up to another train? I think in this case you could probably just reset the train in a new location as if it were a new train being added.
And I'm not going to keep putting quotes around "train." I think everybody understands I am speaking figuratively, these are not really trains zooming around New Eden.
Perhaps another thing you can do is scramble the teams in the case the "trains" crash. Not sure about that though. |
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
208
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt wrote:Great idea +1
It's also good to see something like these kinds of threads from time to time other than the usual whining, b!tches threatening to leave but end up staying because nobody cared, and the constant "look at me i have this! i do this!" threads.
I hope they'll implement this..
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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
94
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
this is awesome, top marks to you sir, I love this idea..... this will defiantly make DUST514 a proper sandbox mmofps
make the battle for a planet worth something to eve and dust and we have a winner
+1 |
Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
302
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
A contested district would have to be marked as either about to start, indicating the overall fight hasn't started yet or contested, medicating that the match is somewhere in progress, or even better mark them according to stages. This way people would be able to organize going into matches with squads better, allowing for some more organist ion. All we need added to this now is to be able to select the district we want to start on specifically. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
4057
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
You already know I agree Aero. |
Rowdy Railgunner
TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN.
75
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
How long will the district be locked for? |
Kain Spero
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2134
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:A contested district would have to be marked as either about to start, indicating the overall fight hasn't started yet or contested, medicating that the match is somewhere in progress, or even better mark them according to stages. This way people would be able to organize going into matches with squads better, allowing for some more organist ion. All we need added to this now is to be able to select the district we want to start on specifically.
Maybe not a specific district, but maybe a specific planet or system. I think in beginning though I think I would like to see the "where" influenced more from the Eve side with LP. This way the Faction Warfare fights Dust side have a larger potential of becoming part of the big picture in a war zone campaign.
The key I think is to really drive home the sense of progression and the idea of one fight leading into something else rather than it being a stream of random fights in random areas as it is now. I think the OP idea is really something that could bring this sense of progression.
Although one thought though is maybe a Duster can spend LP to hop onto a specific "train". Seeing where these hot spots are on the star map could be a really cool thing as well. |
Enkidu Camuel
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
120
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Posted - 2013.10.21 22:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'll give this +1 and hoping to see the DEV blue tag in this thread soon. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2976
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:How long will the district be locked for? In the Skype chat people were saying 24 hours which I believe is too long, and then they lowered it to 12 hours which could work. I also think as low as one hour could work. Basically you just want to keep it locked long enough to give the EVE players a proper window of opportunity to take advantage of the plexing bonus.
Do note though that if we also include the "train" idea then locking districts would not need to happen at all. |
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2982
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Already on the second page of GD?! If you're going to like, then leave a comment please! |
Idye Lotz
xCosmic Voidx Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
126
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Do this and it would certainly make FW a lot more interesting. |
Kazeno Rannaa
BIG BAD W0LVES
260
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Faction Warfare right now has some flaws and CCP is addressing some flaws with the recent changes, mainly adding rewards. But even after these changes, faction warfare will still lack a sense of progression and EVE players trying to give support to their Dust players will still end up getting ping-ponged across New Eden. So why not knock out two birds with one stone? Part of the progression issue is that it seems odd that a 15 minute skirmish is all that decides the outcome of a district. Instead of making the battles longer, I propose the following. Say the Imperial Guard is attacking a district owned by the Republic Command. The battle will proceed as follows:
- Ambush. The attackers are trying to gain a foothold in the district. If the defenders win, then the district is successfully defended and temporarily locked up. If the attackers win, proceed to case (2).
- Ambush OMS. The attackers gained some ground and opened up the battlefield to off map support. If the defenders win, return to case (1). If the attackers win, proceed to case (3).
- Skirmish. The attackers have made their presence known and are trying to seize as much territory as possible. If the defenders win, return to case (2). If the attackers win, proceed to case (4).
- Domination. The attackers are going in for the finishing blow on the critical objective. If the defenders win, return to case (3). If the attackers win, the district is successfully captured and temporarily locked up.
Here is a flow chart by everyone's favorite cat to help you visualize this, http://i.imgur.com/fnaa7RI.pngEDIT: It came to my attention that a mod may mistake me for a Cat Merc alt. Obviously this is not the case, he simply helped me in collaboration of this idea over skype. Each battle would happen on the same mega terrain, but would use different maps and moods as you are moving to different portions of the district (perhaps rotating moods between matches to give the illusion of a day/night cycle). After each map, players will be returned to the warbarge where they wait about 5 minutes for the next stage of the battle to happen. If players leave, new players queued for FW will replace them. Bonus rewards for players who stick from the beginning of the battle to the end if successful. This would also help solve the case of EVE players ping-ponging across the warzone, as they would spend more time sticking around the planet then flying several jumps to the next one. Additionally, imagine you take all the districts that the Amarr and Minmatar fight over for example and string them together to form this circular track such that one district leads to the next nearby district and so on and so forth until the last district leads back to the first district. Now imagine you are on a GÇ£trainGÇ¥ following this track. Once the district you are fighting on gets GÇ£locked,GÇ¥ you advanced along the track to the next district. This will give an even deeper sense of progression for the Dust players as well as further help in keeping the EVE players localized. To accomodate for the large player base, new GÇ£trainsGÇ¥ will be created to follow this same track but be evenly spaced out. Also in this case, the district wouldnGÇÖt actually need to be GÇ£locked,GÇ¥ instead it simply wouldnGÇÖt be attacked again until the next GÇ£trainGÇ¥ arrives. And even better, CCP wouldnGÇÖt have to create anything new as this uses entirely existing resources.
Zion, this is by far one of the best suggestions that I have heard from you, and I have to say this is a brilliant use of what we already have implemented as for battle deployment mechanics.
What could really make this interesting is the inclusion of finite resources at the beginning. This would be in the deployment forces and also the defending forces, much like what we have in PC.
Let me explain: With ever military deployment there are a number of factors that come largely into play that are in the background away from the active awareness of the troops on the ground. Logistics and maintained lines of communication that would be promoting strategic and tactical decisions. On both ends the logistical lines are immensely important, and without consistent lines of communication, boots on the ground will not be able to be directed and informed of their role in a larger tapestry, which they would largely be unaware of, and would require those EVE pilots that have achieved rank and command level abilities (or at least the responsibility of making those decisions) to coordinate the planning, prioritizing, and supplying of these kind of persistent operations. But this also leads one to also consider that not all operations are meant to take the whole district, i.e., ambushes that disrupt logistics or act as diversionary tactics for the main element of the forces being deployed (i.e., the same kind of role that Rangers and other such units would be committed to - government sanctioned terrorists terrorizing military targets).
Since we have a basic mechanic that is actively being used in PC (i.e., the Planetary Structure types/designations to districts), these would come in handy on the part of both defenders and attackers both in the planning of operations and the conducting of said operations as they are a means of accomplishing a specific goal (i.e., taking particular systems because they cause choke points or gateways to other systems which could help in the control of reinforcements of both OPFOR or Friendly forces).
But these are larger considerations as for the greater meta game.
The current model that you are proposing is a good start in the right direction of painting a larger picture of purpose for all of us mercs. Frankly due to the lull in content and the perpetual proto-stomping that has ben going on in both pub and FW matches has turned this experience into more of a grind than I remember over the last year or so. |
Himiko Kuronaga
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
1969
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Domination is a god awful game mode and should not ever be used for anything official under any circumstances.
It is the single most ridiculous meat grinder this game has to offer and there is zero strategy whatsoever. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
293
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Love it love it love it. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1605
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Oh this is nice Aero. Great idea |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3465
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Who is Zion? |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2982
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Yeah dude, not cool.
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2982
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Domination is a god awful game mode and should not ever be used for anything official under any circumstances.
It is the single most ridiculous meat grinder this game has to offer and there is zero strategy whatsoever. But are you forgetting this would encourage more EVE support, then people could actually take advantage of the EVE EMP support to destroy all the uplnks that get littered around Domination. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3465
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ah ha. I think I will do some research into just who you are Aero Yassavi. I think I have you previous character finally figured out! |
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Kazeno Rannaa
BIG BAD W0LVES
260
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Domination is a god awful game mode and should not ever be used for anything official under any circumstances.
It is the single most ridiculous meat grinder this game has to offer and there is zero strategy whatsoever.
Actually if you take into consideration a military operation where the attackers are attempting to root out the remaining vestige of the OPFOR, this mode makes perfect sense. You are right in the fact that it is a meat grinder, but that is usually the case when attacking a heavily dug-in opponent in an isolated location that feels like a cornered, wounded animal.
My advise, think of this in terms of what a military operation would be like. It wouldn't be just some random operation where you get hired out for a week or two to do some clean up or a quick raid. It would be the sustained decimation of you enemy until they are completely wiped out. To the last clone, they would all have to die as long as the clones kept coming out of the clone bays.
This is where a previous idea of mine, limited clone counts for the CRU's would work wonderfully. Either take the CRU, blow it up, or bleed it out. In either of the possible solutions to the problem of continuously reanimating clones coming out to ruin your idea of righteousness, they all point towards the isolation and elimination of the OPFOR's ability to sustain their own operations. This is where Attacking specific districts would make sense and so would the redefinition of the Planetary Structures actual job.
Production facilities should produce. Research facilities - speed production. Storage facilities should be that, storage for not only clones, but the equipment that would be available for the forces that are hunkered down on that planet. The goal should not be the taking of single districts, but ultimately the taking of the entire planet. Take any one of these parts away, it should affect the total operational effectiveness of that planet for the faction that holds it.
Take over a production facility to reduce the total production output for that faction, not just in that specific district, but for the whole planet. Take out a research facility, production time of clones, and hopefully later of the equipment on that planet, is reduced, i.e., slowed. Take out a storage facility would equate to less available clones to maintain on hand to defend the planet and less equipment too, while also reducing the total amount of equipment a faction would be able to max out at due to storage space constraints.
These same principles would then be able to be shifted to low-sec ad null-sec PC, while also providing for the large meta-game that everyone wants; CCP, EVE pilots, and DUST bunnies. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
850
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Not bad, Not bad!
A few tweaks/suggestions if I may? I like the train idea but not necessarily the match types! If you want to make it feel more inclusive try
1) skirmish 1.0 (renamed "ground war") Enemy has to move mcc succesfully to point for win condition 2) standard skirmish, they are approaching the district null cannon 3) domination
If you really want you could add an ambush in their somewhere.
Also to make it a little fairer on the defenders, if at any point during stages 1 + 2 the attackers mcc is destroyed, they loose period! |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2983
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:If you really want you could add an ambush in their somewhere, but what I think you should do is turn these 3 stages almost into 1 large battle!
Break each bit up as normal but give every merc in the previous battle, the chance to renew their contract to automatically take part in the next stage! That is already what's happening. It's one large battle, but there's breaks in between as usual and if you don't leave you automatically get placed in the next stage. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2983
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: Ah ha. I think I will do some research into just who you are Aero Yassavi. I think I have you previous character finally figured out! Good, good, because this is the completely wrong cookie crumb you'd need to follow to discover my identity before Aero Yassavi. Though I'm not saying it'd be impossible for you to figure out, the resources are actually there for you, but this is, again, the wrong cookie crumb. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3466
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
DAMNIT! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
850
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:If you really want you could add an ambush in their somewhere, but what I think you should do is turn these 3 stages almost into 1 large battle!
Break each bit up as normal but give every merc in the previous battle, the chance to renew their contract to automatically take part in the next stage! That is already what's happening. It's one large battle, but there's breaks in between as usual and if you don't leave you automatically get placed in the next stage.
My apologies, missed that on previous read! Great Idea my friend, but personally im am less partial to the 50% skirmish! |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2983
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Don't ignore me Aero, I'm getting close I know it! I'll give you a hint: Sometime this week you did acquire a key bit of info to help you on your path, but it was not today. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3467
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:Don't ignore me Aero, I'm getting close I know it! I'll give you a hint: Sometime this week you did acquire a key bit of info to help you on your path, but it was not today. I am this close to blowing this case wide open, you should see my PC, I have back ground of a massive Excell brainstorm of how I am trying to work out which corp you were in before PIE.
This week had to have meant yesterday, but we only played a single match together.... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9593
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I wouldn't have the cycle fully reset but maybe back down a notch so it becomes a tug of war. Overall cool idea until we get more game modes in. Well IWS, the "tug of war" thing is actually how I described this, or tried to describe it at least. You keep going through this cycle until one team satisfies the winning conditions, then you repeat the cycle on the next district on the train track. And would we really need to wait until more game modes are in? Wouldn't it be possible to implement this with the current game modes, then as new game modes are added CCP can simply append them into the tug of war?
Well we don't know what more this game is capable of once coders start working with the maps again. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2983
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 00:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: This week had to have meant yesterday, but we only played a single match together....
You are on the wrong train of thought again. But I digress, we are getting too off topic. |
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