Reward 0 wp, sp and kills for all actions taki.g place within the redline. Failure to leave the redline after 3 minutes boots you from the match for failing to fulfill the contract.

Come at me with the tears scrubs.

No, No, No. Bad idea.

I don't have 1 sp put into sniping, but I have redlined teams and been redlined so I know that there are times where the only benefit to leaving the redzone is to watch your deaths pile up. Sure it speeds up the match so you can hopefully get into another without a team of proto, but I see no reason me, or anyone else, should be forced into a killzone just because you are pissed at a sniper actually doing his job. If you don't like it, take out your free sniper fit like I do and kill him yourself.

Everyone here may have leet skillz and swear they can't be pushed all the way back, but I guarantee you if it hasn't happened it will. And you would likely throw a fit if you were redlined at the end of a match and lost your reward up till that point (proto is expensive)........

On second thought, I would love to see someone I've been redline wasting disappear from the game entirely, losing all they earned trying to break out. Puts griefing on a whole new level, and gives prototrolls another way to ruin the noob experience.

Great suggestion OP.

Reward 0 wp, sp and kills for all actions taki.g place within the redline. Failure to leave the redline after 3 minutes boots you from the match for failing to fulfill the contract.

Come at me with the tears scrubs.

Reward 0 wp, sp and kills for all actions taki.g place within the redline. Failure to leave the redline after 3 minutes boots you from the match for failing to fulfill the contract.

Come at me with the tears scrubs.

No, No, No. Bad idea.

I don't have 1 sp put into sniping, but I have redlined teams and been redlined so I know that there are times where the only benefit to leaving the redzone is to watch your deaths pile up. Sure it speeds up the match so you can hopefully get into another without a team of proto, but I see no reason me, or anyone else, should be forced into a killzone just because you are pissed at a sniper actually doing his job. If you don't like it, take out your free sniper fit like I do and kill him yourself.

Everyone here may have leet skillz and swear they can't be pushed all the way back, but I guarantee you if it hasn't happened it will. And you would likely throw a fit if you were redlined at the end of a match and lost your reward up till that point (proto is expensive)........

On second thought, I would love to see someone I've been redline wasting disappear from the game entirely, losing all they earned trying to break out. Puts griefing on a whole new level, and gives prototrolls another way to ruin the noob experience.

Great suggestion OP.

I have yet to see a anti-redline thread that makes any sense or gives even a semi-coherent argument.

Do you even know why the redline was introduced in the first place?

Are you aware that the objective of the Skirmish and Domination game modes is "destroy enemy MCC", not "stomp the losing team into oblivion and make their defeat even more bitter by depriving them of WP, SP, and ISK"?

The only semi-legitimate issue regarding redline is the sniping issue. Sniper will, by the nature of their role, always try to find a position that is secluded, elevated and hard to get to. Redline area offers some or all of those attributes, some maps better than others. What you're proposing basically forces the sniper to choose a less optimal position, or forfeit the reward for his job. Speaking from personal experience, most times I get taken out as a sniper, I get taken out by another sniper. Regardless of whether I'm inside redline or not.
So, I'll agree that redline gives snipers an advantage that could be considered "unfair", however, I'm willing to bet that most snipers would be sitting at those exact same spots even if you remove it. Redline wasn't introduced to make sniping easy, but for reasons completely unrelated to sniping. It's not sniper's fault that his favorite sniping spot is inside redline. Don't punish him for it.

then why is there a clone count. Again the issue is if a team can no longer stay in the combat area the game needs to end and as long as they are in the red line they get nothing.

there needs to be a reward advantage for the winning team to ensure that they will chose to end the match over farming kills.

redlining is no fun for any on not even the team doing the readlining ending a unbreakable red line is the best for every one involved and at that point THERE IS NO REASON TO BE IN THE REDLINE!! so no you should not be allowed to gain further anything while in the red line.

So, you mean there should be some sort of "premature ending" if one team completely withdraws behind redline?
That doesn't sound like a bad idea, but who decides when to end the battle, and on what exact criteria?

-- snip QQ from scrub --

Just gut yourself, you won't bleed. They filled your clone with QQ.

Useless drivel.

well there goes any hope of constructive conversation......

Why can't we remove redlines all together? If you don't want to spawn on a CRU, MCC, or Uplink, you should be able to spawn in an area relatively free from enemies, like most other FPS games. CCP really can't do random spawns well at all.

yea really never seen a problem with spawn camping before this game.

I have yet to see a anti-redline thread that makes any sense or gives even a semi-coherent argument.

Do you even know why the redline was introduced in the first place?

Are you aware that the objective of the Skirmish and Domination game modes is "destroy enemy MCC", not "stomp the losing team into oblivion and make their defeat even more bitter by depriving them of WP, SP, and ISK"?

The only semi-legitimate issue regarding redline is the sniping issue. Sniper will, by the nature of their role, always try to find a position that is secluded, elevated and hard to get to. Redline area offers some or all of those attributes, some maps better than others. What you're proposing basically forces the sniper to choose a less optimal position, or forfeit the reward for his job. Speaking from personal experience, most times I get taken out as a sniper, I get taken out by another sniper. Regardless of whether I'm inside redline or not.
So, I'll agree that redline gives snipers an advantage that could be considered "unfair", however, I'm willing to bet that most snipers would be sitting at those exact same spots even if you remove it. Redline wasn't introduced to make sniping easy, but for reasons completely unrelated to sniping. It's not sniper's fault that his favorite sniping spot is inside redline. Don't punish him for it.

I have yet to see a anti-red line thread that makes any sense or gives even a semi-coherent argument.

Do you even know why the red line was introduced in the first place?

Are you aware that the objective of the Skirmish and Domination game modes is "destroy enemy MCC", not "stomp the losing team into oblivion and make their defeat even more bitter by depriving them of WP, SP, and ISK"?

The only semi-legitimate issue regarding red line is the sniping issue. Sniper will, by the nature of their role, always try to find a position that is secluded, elevated and hard to get to. Red line area offers some or all of those attributes, some maps better than others. What you're proposing basically forces the sniper to choose a less optimal position, or forfeit the reward for his job. Speaking from personal experience, most times I get taken out as a sniper, I get taken out by another sniper. Regardless of whether I'm inside red line or not.
So, I'll agree that red line gives snipers an advantage that could be considered "unfair", however, I'm willing to bet that most snipers would be sitting at those exact same spots even if you remove it. Red line wasn't introduced to make sniping easy, but for reasons completely unrelated to sniping. It's not sniper's fault that his favorite sniping spot is inside red line. Don't punish him for it.

How about, instead of being kicked after three minutes, no passive SP is gained while I the redline.

Alright I didn't wanna waste my time writing this up again but the trolling is not to bad yet so ill give it a try.

My favorite idea is one where, when all points are held by one team a count down is started to redline removal hacking a point of course resets that timer and the redline. After the redline is removed the assaulting team has to push past the red line spawn point to one last hack point and defend it until captured. If they succeed the match ends, if one of the points is captured they have a 10--30sec timer to get back across the redline before it resets.

the advantage of this set up is it actually increases the chance that the redlined team will be able to push out and can even be used strategically as a bait and switch to effectively red line the opposite team with out firing a single shot.

again this only works if there is an incentive to the winning team ending the match early. After this point you can set the redline as an area where you get no rewards for being there as there is no reason for you to be there if there is a redline there.

then comes the comment but people cant see their own red line so **** you! then put a ******* blue or orange or what ever ******* color.

sorry im tired of the same tired arguments, I'm sure there is one I forgot and ill spew some more hate in memory of those that left behind these great idea and were never heard.

Reward 0 wp, sp and kills for all actions taki.g place within the redline. Failure to leave the redline after 3 minutes boots you from the match for failing to fulfill the contract.

Come at me with the tears scrubs.

this is a very interesting idea i do like it and it would add a new element to the game.
Now for the questions
1 would said final terminal be hackable at all times or just when one side controls all objectives?
2now what if said team is not red lined but cannot hold any objectives would this still be in effect?
3 to stop count down does it have to be a null cannon or can a CRU reset ( provides a way to escape the red line)?
4how long would the timer be? after gaining access to final terminal, if terminal get hacked back ( normal red line timer is 20 seconds)
5 how far deep into the red zone would terminal be located ?
6 would it be out in open, or inside a structure, building?

i do under stand that people would complain " we cant see our red zone" but that can be fixed with changing of the color to yellow

and like i said in a previous post there is always a way out of the red zone you just have to find it

5. not penalize every one who is trying to play.

Ghost is here to try and fix things, but remember that I left my repper at home. :(

I like this idea, but I also would like to remind you guys that a sniper's position is crucial to his usefulness. I've said many times before that a Sniper is not just for kills, in fact, it's almost for the exact opposite. A sniper's position is used to see the battlefield and warn teammates of incoming dangers, and take out anyone that's trying to kill your squadmates discreetly. If a Shotgun is hiding next to a doorway, ready to blow the brains out of your friendly Squadmate, you need to warn that Squadmate so he's able to defend himself. Or, if you'd like, like up a headshot on that Shotgun and kill him then and there. But without a good sniping spot, you can't do that, because you can't see the whole board.

On the topic of Sniper Spots, I'd like to point out that MOST of the good sniping spots are shared between the redline and the actual field, making it still accessable by normal means. Or, even better, the sniper is sitting at the part that's outside of the redline. Technically, he's not Redline Sniping, but it's effectively the same thing, given the distance he is away from it.

However, when you're pushed BACK INTO the Redline via the opposite team, here's my idea.
You don't lose ALL of your stuff if you've been pushed to the redline. Instead, you get HALF rewards. 90% of the time, you tried your hardest to not get redlined. The game will know to give half rewards not if you're standing in the redline, but if you're in the redline and ALL points have been captured by the enemy team. If you still have a CRU, or Null Cannon, you're not redlined. If you manage to get at least 100 WP while in the redline, you'll get full reward.

If standing in the MCC spinning in circles so it doesn't kick you, you get no rewards at all. At least 25 WP and still in the field is required to get any rewards at all. When standing actually inside the MCC at all, rewards are negated, except for a small invulnerability timer when/if you happen to spawn inside the MCC.

Lo..

The matches would end faster is if booted everyone if they were redlined. Redlining the other team isnt fun, especially when they all decide to just hide and snipe. This system would punish those who dont contribute to their team, and spare those who cant pass the redline getting farmed for 15 minutes.

but if i am standing outside the redline and your inside and i kill you i still gets points..? but if ur in the redline and u kills me u gets none?

The only part of early termination I disagree with is the no WP. I would concurr with a bonus to the winning team and a countdown timer for forfeit, but the losing team should keep the meager WP and SP they've earned to that point. Which of the ideas posted for getting out of a redline situation is best...sadly I don't think it matters because of the "vocal minority".

As for the prime sniping spots, the thing that makes them most desirable is their safety. When I run solo, I snipe maybe 50% of the time. I 'm a different kind of redline sniper though, I get as close as possible to the enemy redline, and let me tell you, those are the real prime spots, thanks to redline snipers noone looks for me low down and close to home. My preference is counter-sniping for just this reason.

I don't think a lack of a redline will hurt snipers, I think it will make them better!

but if i am standing outside the redline and your inside and i kill you i still gets points..? but if ur in the redline and u kills me u gets none?

Ghost is here to try and fix things, but remember that I left my repper at home. :(

I like this idea, but I also would like to remind you guys that a sniper's position is crucial to his usefulness. I've said many times before that a Sniper is not just for kills, in fact, it's almost for the exact opposite. A sniper's position is used to see the battlefield and warn teammates of incoming dangers, and take out anyone that's trying to kill your squadmates discreetly. If a Shotgun is hiding next to a doorway, ready to blow the brains out of your friendly Squadmate, you need to warn that Squadmate so he's able to defend himself. Or, if you'd like, like up a headshot on that Shotgun and kill him then and there. But without a good sniping spot, you can't do that, because you can't see the whole board.

On the topic of Sniper Spots, I'd like to point out that MOST of the good sniping spots are shared between the redline and the actual field, making it still accessable by normal means. Or, even better, the sniper is sitting at the part that's outside of the redline. Technically, he's not Redline Sniping, but it's effectively the same thing, given the distance he is away from it.

However, when you're pushed BACK INTO the Redline via the opposite team, here's my idea.
You don't lose ALL of your stuff if you've been pushed to the redline. Instead, you get HALF rewards. 90% of the time, you tried your hardest to not get redlined. The game will know to give half rewards not if you're standing in the redline, but if you're in the redline and ALL points have been captured by the enemy team. If you still have a CRU, or Null Cannon, you're not redlined. If you manage to get at least 100 WP while in the redline, you'll get full reward.

If standing in the MCC spinning in circles so it doesn't kick you, you get no rewards at all. At least 25 WP and still in the field is required to get any rewards at all. When standing actually inside the MCC at all, rewards are negated, except for a small invulnerability timer when/if you happen to spawn inside the MCC.

stop complaining! its a strategy used by snipers because that's what snipers do. you really think a sniper is gonna go get in the middle of the battle to die?? your request is irrelevant to actually helping the game and makes more problems then solutions.

No, No, No. Bad idea.

I don't have 1 sp put into sniping, but I have redlined teams and been redlined so I know that there are times where the only benefit to leaving the redzone is to watch your deaths pile up. Sure it speeds up the match so you can hopefully get into another without a team of proto, but I see no reason me, or anyone else, should be forced into a killzone just because you are pissed at a sniper actually doing his job. If you don't like it, take out your free sniper fit like I do and kill him yourself.

Everyone here may have leet skillz and swear they can't be pushed all the way back, but I guarantee you if it hasn't happened it will. And you would likely throw a fit if you were redlined at the end of a match and lost your reward up till that point (proto is expensive)........

On second thought, I would love to see someone I've been redline wasting disappear from the game entirely, losing all they earned trying to break out. Puts griefing on a whole new level, and gives prototrolls another way to ruin the noob experience.

Great suggestion OP.

Let me get this straight. You want to punish teams who get red-lined by queue-syncing proto squads? Sorry, but maintaining a player base is more important than your KD.

This would never work paran.

First, people redlined would just quit and find another match instead of fight their way out.
second, you wouldn't get any reward for killing people in the redline (what goes one way has to go the other)
third, snipers would have a field day with this.

Can't believe Logibro is giving any sort of credibility to this cryhard's request. You can't even see where your redline is in this game, and it's ridiculous to indicate a sniper shouldn't get points for sniping from, you know, sniper positions. Or that a team already getting pushed into it's redline shouldn't even be able to get any war points, giving them less incentive to try and shoot back, instead of just hiding behind a redline crate.

And you are? Keep hiding, I'll just farm you with obs instead.

so you'll counter one broken mechanic with another? and how will you be earning all these Precision strikes if the other team is hiding behind crates or better yet the MCC i admit the redline is a problem but nothing is stopping you from getting the free sniper fit CCP gives you and popping their skulls with it

and if their just rubber banding you win good for you why is it so necessary to kick them while they're down
you're probably just upset that there is just that small amount of people that you cheaters couldn't kill with your melee glitch before it went bye bye

This is the OP in a nutshell. The guy who's 30 minutes late for work.

If you really want to "Fix" redlining as you say it's broken, let's fix a few other issues first, such as MATCHMAKING. Just this morning, I was the only guy on my team using advanced gear, and the entire enemy team save for one or two people was in full proto. As in 800 armor, 500 shield proto. I brought out my Thales to try to give our guys a fighting chance, but I was the only person on our team who had a kill as we were forced into the redline and couldn't get out. I couldn't even sneak out and cap a CRU, because then I'd have four proto logis with Duovolles on me.

If you want to remove our last barrier of safety, then you need to have some consequences too. If you own all the Objectives for X amount of time, installations will eventually be swapped over to the redlined team. If they still can't make a cap a certain amount of time after the installations are given, the protostomping team will do half damage and take double damage. At this point of handicaps, the proto team will recieve double ISK reward, whether these measures help the other team make a comeback or not.

And if these measures do help a formerly redlined team win, the underdog team should get QUADRUPLE ISK reward, and perhaps double the SP they would have normally earned, as long as they've earned at least 25wp.

Good thread, minimal (but obligatory) level of trolling.

I can see this from both sides and it's a tough problem to solve. To that end, couple different options that might help:

1) I like the accelerated game end if you own all points and 75% of the opposing team is in their redline. Essentially just increase DPS to the enemy MCC when those conditions are met. If your team wins by redline...you get the "Flawless Victory" bonus, say +25% to ISK, WP, and Salvage.

2) Give a "emergency spawn point" option to the SL. This should function similar to how OBs work, essentially the MCC drops a CRU down for a last ditch attempt to break out of the redline position. It would be kinda neat if you could drop it like you do OBs (heck...it could be an alternate warbarge strike option). You could just have it AI controlled like the normal turret drops.

3) Shrink the redline down to the minimum amount possible just under the MCC or a secure ground base. The "redline" areas need not be connected...the theory would be those are critical areas covered by the MCC or something else that establishes the foothold the ground force is working from. This should give much more playable area back to both teams and gives snipers and counter snipers equal opportunity.

Those three options seem to be the easiest to fix and particularly when working together might achieve the desired effect. Ultimately you don't want to set the conditions for the a$$ whipping cost to be so high that it sheds players but you want to reward decisive victory.

i like some of these red line ideas except for the no WP, SP and ISK earned while in the red line (mostly because if the team is red lined). if nothing is gained in the red line, players would have to leave and that is good, but if pushed into the red line, people would have no incentive to actually play the match. and ending it early would cause them to gain nothing, resulting in why bother playing that match in the first place. i prefer a 50% reduction (or anything that isn't 100%) cost in WP, SP and ISK so they get something in return rather then nothing

Ccp isn't here to hold your hand while you skip through fields of daisies. This is new eden. Ending the match early is merciful enough, while still giving you wp for actions outside ooh the redline. The only people truly punished are those who never leave the red line.

I'd a team gets pushed into a redline they would still receive wp and sp for prior actions outside of the redline.

Get good? If you cant even break out of your redline, you deserve to get farmed.

so your saying if there was 1 good squad doing all the work trying to push out the redline they deserved to be shot because the rest of the team cant be bothered

i am going to call a spade a spade here and say that the OP has no other intention with this thread other than to be able to kick the opposing team while they're down by requesting CCP to enable his/her team to enter the enemy redline and wreck them even further

if you think i am being rash and jumping to conclusions or that i am assuming the worst out of him/her then allow me to shed light on why i believe his/her intentions are wicked and simply disguised as an honest complaint when the only complaint he/she has is the one thing
keeping the other team remotely safe from his/her proto stomping wrath

first off i will state that if his/her quarrel was with redline snipers he/she could simply order a precision strike like he/she has stated he'd/she'd do to redline campers throughout this entire thread
and if that wasn't an option at the moment he/she could pick up his/her own 100% free starter fit that CCP has provided him/her with and blow their face off if they where indeed that much of a nuisance to him/her
the only reason the latter would be an unacceptable counter to redline snipers is that the OP simply cannot do anything else but proto stomp weaklings or "newbies" and could not possibly stoop to their level of gear

secondly if you have pummeled the opposing team into the dust (pun intended) to such an extent that they refuse to even attempt to exit their redline not only is it the OP's fault for being such a merciless brute and hammering away at them
without hesitance but it is also the OP's fault for failing to fall back afterwards to let the opposition capture at least 1 objective
and continue the rest of the game as you where
this action requires a team effort and a great deal of mercy to do but if you are complaining that it's a bore to wait at the enemy's redline
shooting fish in a barrel so much that the "fish" decided to stop trying at all then perhaps if you try showing mercy to your foes
by falling back and letting them take at least 1 objective than surely they would capture said objective and perhaps even try
to push even further to capture another objective
thus restoring fun to the match

i am certain that your foes would crawl out of their redline if there wasn't 16 hostile mercenary's lined up napoleon style waiting to shoot them full of plasma

First: Yes, I have and will continue to do that, with OB's and my Kaalakiota rifles. However, hiding in the redline provides the advantage of not having people thrust nova knives into your back. There should be a penalty for that.


Second: I have had our squads pull back, or even give the other side a headstart. Result is all the same, once the other team changes to sniper fits they rarely go out and try to cap points.

It is not by being a brute. We play the game to WIN. This is not some ehonor competition where we slap each other with white gloves before we commence battle.

Nothing hurts my kdr more than players I can get to. Already this way we all won't sit there bored for 15 minutes. Besides you can't really q sync into pubs, matchmaking is broken.

Also quit hiding in the redline like a scrub. -10

No, No, No. Bad idea.

I don't have 1 sp put into sniping, but I have redlined teams and been redlined so I know that there are times where the only benefit to leaving the redzone is to watch your deaths pile up. Sure it speeds up the match so you can hopefully get into another without a team of proto, but I see no reason me, or anyone else, should be forced into a killzone just because you are pissed at a sniper actually doing his job. If you don't like it, take out your free sniper fit like I do and kill him yourself.

Everyone here may have leet skillz and swear they can't be pushed all the way back, but I guarantee you if it hasn't happened it will. And you would likely throw a fit if you were redlined at the end of a match and lost your reward up till that point (proto is expensive)........

On second thought, I would love to see someone I've been redline wasting disappear from the game entirely, losing all they earned trying to break out. Puts griefing on a whole new level, and gives prototrolls another way to ruin the noob experience.

Great suggestion OP.

ZERO sp over time for being in the redzone

It says you get isk and sp over time for being in the battle, the redzone is not in the battle

Who cares if players can get Warpoints in the redzone those only account for 10-20% of the rewards earned in the battle. There is a reason it wasn't an issue because the beta ended.

i couldnt agree more.... sittin in the redline is such a ***** way of playing.... same goes for tower snipers, forgers, and tankers

Then they would forfeit wp earned out side of the redline as well. There has to be some form of punishment for scrubs who hide behind their redline.

-- snip scrub QQ and my insult to said Kitten --
Another worthless troll desperately clinging to their easy mode for sniping.

If youre redlined it probably has something to do with half your team sniping from under the mcc where they cant be reached. Im fine with the red line, but dont think you should be able to hide behind it where noone can sneak up on you.

Reward 0 wp, sp and kills for all actions taki.g place within the redline. Failure to leave the redline after 3 minutes boots you from the match for failing to fulfill the contract.

Come at me with the tears scrubs.