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hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2013.10.22 10:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
emtbraincase wrote:No, No, No. Bad idea.
I don't have 1 sp put into sniping, but I have redlined teams and been redlined so I know that there are times where the only benefit to leaving the redzone is to watch your deaths pile up. Sure it speeds up the match so you can hopefully get into another without a team of proto, but I see no reason me, or anyone else, should be forced into a killzone just because you are pissed at a sniper actually doing his job. If you don't like it, take out your free sniper fit like I do and kill him yourself.
Everyone here may have leet skillz and swear they can't be pushed all the way back, but I guarantee you if it hasn't happened it will. And you would likely throw a fit if you were redlined at the end of a match and lost your reward up till that point (proto is expensive)........
On second thought, I would love to see someone I've been redline wasting disappear from the game entirely, losing all they earned trying to break out. Puts griefing on a whole new level, and gives prototrolls another way to ruin the noob experience.
Great suggestion OP.
This is actually one of the better thought out arguments against this, but frankly the problem is that the game should end if a team can't push out of the red line with a significant bonus for the winner. Then the OPs suggestion should stand........
but all of this has been suggested a hundred times before and every time ****** snipers swarm the threads and the vocal minority wins.
you should note emtbraincase that I am not dismissing what you said but rather saying that there are ways around the issues and they have been suggested time and time again and they get drowned out by a few vocal players that every one wants gone anyways. Not to mention that a large portion of redline matches come from players in the redline. So yea a lot of people are at the point where they don't give a **** about a big fix they just want people out of the red line at all costs. |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2013.10.22 10:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
George Moros wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Reward 0 wp, sp and kills for all actions taki.g place within the redline. Failure to leave the redline after 3 minutes boots you from the match for failing to fulfill the contract.
Come at me with the tears scrubs. I have yet to see a anti-redline thread that makes any sense or gives even a semi-coherent argument. Do you even know why the redline was introduced in the first place? Are you aware that the objective of the Skirmish and Domination game modes is "destroy enemy MCC", not "stomp the losing team into oblivion and make their defeat even more bitter by depriving them of WP, SP, and ISK"? The only semi-legitimate issue regarding redline is the sniping issue. Sniper will, by the nature of their role, always try to find a position that is secluded, elevated and hard to get to. Redline area offers some or all of those attributes, some maps better than others. What you're proposing basically forces the sniper to choose a less optimal position, or forfeit the reward for his job. Speaking from personal experience, most times I get taken out as a sniper, I get taken out by another sniper. Regardless of whether I'm inside redline or not. So, I'll agree that redline gives snipers an advantage that could be considered "unfair", however, I'm willing to bet that most snipers would be sitting at those exact same spots even if you remove it. Redline wasn't introduced to make sniping easy, but for reasons completely unrelated to sniping. It's not sniper's fault that his favorite sniping spot is inside redline. Don't punish him for it.
then why is there a clone count. Again the issue is if a team can no longer stay in the combat area the game needs to end and as long as they are in the red line they get nothing.
there needs to be a reward advantage for the winning team to ensure that they will chose to end the match over farming kills.
redlining is no fun for any on not even the team doing the readlining ending a unbreakable red line is the best for every one involved and at that point THERE IS NO REASON TO BE IN THE REDLINE!! so no you should not be allowed to gain further anything while in the red line. |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2013.10.22 10:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alright I didn't wanna waste my time writing this up again but the trolling is not to bad yet so ill give it a try.
My favorite idea is one where, when all points are held by one team a count down is started to redline removal hacking a point of course resets that timer and the redline. After the redline is removed the assaulting team has to push past the red line spawn point to one last hack point and defend it until captured. If they succeed the match ends, if one of the points is captured they have a 10--30sec timer to get back across the redline before it resets.
the advantage of this set up is it actually increases the chance that the redlined team will be able to push out and can even be used strategically as a bait and switch to effectively red line the opposite team with out firing a single shot.
again this only works if there is an incentive to the winning team ending the match early. After this point you can set the redline as an area where you get no rewards for being there as there is no reason for you to be there if there is a redline there.
then comes the comment but people cant see their own red line so **** you! then put a ******* blue or orange or what ever ******* color.
sorry im tired of the same tired arguments, I'm sure there is one I forgot and ill spew some more hate in memory of those that left behind these great idea and were never heard. |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2013.10.22 10:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
oh and this is admittedly extravagant so in the sort term I would take.
1)a way to end matches quickly 2)increased rewards to the victor of a match that ends early 3)you get nothing while you are in the red line |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2013.10.22 10:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
George Moros wrote:hgghyujh wrote: then why is there a clone count. Again the issue is if a team can no longer stay in the combat area the game needs to end and as long as they are in the red line they get nothing.
there needs to be a reward advantage for the winning team to ensure that they will chose to end the match over farming kills.
redlining is no fun for any on not even the team doing the readlining ending a unbreakable red line is the best for every one involved and at that point THERE IS NO REASON TO BE IN THE REDLINE!! so no you should not be allowed to gain further anything while in the red line.
So, you mean there should be some sort of "premature ending" if one team completely withdraws behind redline? That doesn't sound like a bad idea, but who decides when to end the battle, and on what exact criteria?
that has been subject to a lot of conversation I posted my favorite idea above but, some one else wrote above one that had a timer that would reset if a member of your team stayed out of the red line for so long, which is easier to implement.
but again with out an incentive for the winning team to quick end the match they will just farm kills at the redline or just out side it. |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2013.10.22 11:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
There actually have been a lot of really good arguments about this in the past but all the people who made them got tired of being drowned out all the time, and the conversation stopped. |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
132
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Posted - 2013.10.23 01:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
well there goes any hope of constructive conversation...... |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
132
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Posted - 2013.10.23 03:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
yep you won't hear any argument from me |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
132
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Posted - 2013.10.23 03:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Why can't we remove redlines all together? If you don't want to spawn on a CRU, MCC, or Uplink, you should be able to spawn in an area relatively free from enemies, like most other FPS games. CCP really can't do random spawns well at all.
yea really never seen a problem with spawn camping before this game. |
hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
133
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:hgghyujh wrote:Alright I didn't wanna waste my time writing this up again but the trolling is not to bad yet so ill give it a try.
My favorite idea is one where, when all points are held by one team a count down is started to redline removal hacking a point of course resets that timer and the redline. After the redline is removed the assaulting team has to push past the red line spawn point to one last hack point and defend it until captured. If they succeed the match ends, if one of the points is captured they have a 10--30sec timer to get back across the redline before it resets.
the advantage of this set up is it actually increases the chance that the redlined team will be able to push out and can even be used strategically as a bait and switch to effectively red line the opposite team with out firing a single shot.
again this only works if there is an incentive to the winning team ending the match early. After this point you can set the redline as an area where you get no rewards for being there as there is no reason for you to be there if there is a redline there.
then comes the comment but people cant see their own red line so **** you! then put a ******* blue or orange or what ever ******* color.
sorry im tired of the same tired arguments, I'm sure there is one I forgot and ill spew some more hate in memory of those that left behind these great idea and were never heard. this is a very interesting idea i do like it and it would add a new element to the game. Now for the questions 1 would said final terminal be hackable at all times or just when one side controls all objectives? 2now what if said team is not red lined but cannot hold any objectives would this still be in effect? 3 to stop count down does it have to be a null cannon or can a CRU reset ( provides a way to escape the red line)? 4how long would the timer be? after gaining access to final terminal, if terminal get hacked back ( normal red line timer is 20 seconds) 5 how far deep into the red zone would terminal be located ? 6 would it be out in open, or inside a structure, building? i do under stand that people would complain " we cant see our red zone" but that can be fixed with changing of the color to yellow and like i said in a previous post there is always a way out of the red zone you just have to find it
1)really depends on how deep the redline is but no it should not be exploitable with out having all the points. 2)I think it should be if you can't hold any points you are just being farmed and it would give you more of a chance to turn it around. 3)depends on the answer to the question above if it must be held to gain access to the point then it must be defended. That said the beauty of this system is that it can be tweaked quite a bit to balance games. 4)I am assuming that it would be the same timer but depending on redline depth you would get more or less time before the redline comes back. 5)further back then the spawn points so deep in the red lines although maps might have to be tweaked to make this work. 6)frankly this question and every other question is up for discussion this is just a frame work and all of these things can be adjusted as necessarythe main purpose of this is.....
1. to prevent kill farming. 2. to end grossly unbalanced match as quickly and painlessly as possible. 3. give the redlined team a fighting chance. 4. remove incentives for a player to stay in the redline (which harms the team ability to stay out of it) 5. not penalize every one who is trying to play. |
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hgghyujh
expert intervention Caldari State
136
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Posted - 2013.10.27 23:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Ghost is here to try and fix things, but remember that I left my repper at home. :(
I like this idea, but I also would like to remind you guys that a sniper's position is crucial to his usefulness. I've said many times before that a Sniper is not just for kills, in fact, it's almost for the exact opposite. A sniper's position is used to see the battlefield and warn teammates of incoming dangers, and take out anyone that's trying to kill your squadmates discreetly. If a Shotgun is hiding next to a doorway, ready to blow the brains out of your friendly Squadmate, you need to warn that Squadmate so he's able to defend himself. Or, if you'd like, like up a headshot on that Shotgun and kill him then and there. But without a good sniping spot, you can't do that, because you can't see the whole board.
On the topic of Sniper Spots, I'd like to point out that MOST of the good sniping spots are shared between the redline and the actual field, making it still accessable by normal means. Or, even better, the sniper is sitting at the part that's outside of the redline. Technically, he's not Redline Sniping, but it's effectively the same thing, given the distance he is away from it.
However, when you're pushed BACK INTO the Redline via the opposite team, here's my idea. You don't lose ALL of your stuff if you've been pushed to the redline. Instead, you get HALF rewards. 90% of the time, you tried your hardest to not get redlined. The game will know to give half rewards not if you're standing in the redline, but if you're in the redline and ALL points have been captured by the enemy team. If you still have a CRU, or Null Cannon, you're not redlined. If you manage to get at least 100 WP while in the redline, you'll get full reward.
If standing in the MCC spinning in circles so it doesn't kick you, you get no rewards at all. At least 25 WP and still in the field is required to get any rewards at all. When standing actually inside the MCC at all, rewards are negated, except for a small invulnerability timer when/if you happen to spawn inside the MCC.
im completely off topic here but yea they do need to add a scanner function to sniper scopes. Realistically none of this works with out a way to quick end a match, and you shouldn't lose rewards just not get any in the red line. |
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