and you think we don't know this?

were just letting CCP decide for themselves if they want to kill pilots off or try to revive us.

were tired of their bullshit.

bf4 tanks are good... just letting CCP know...

in bf you put no personal investment into anything other than your infantry character in fact that's how every game is.

Dust514 allows you to actually put personal investment into vehicles for once.

Funny how changing one core skill could have prevented all this drama....

If a thread is made about abolishing 1.7 and has 30 signatures, 1.7 will be abolished. 1.7 is making tanks a bigger sp sink and nerfing tanks into the groud to a point where they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Shame on you CCP, And i better be able to fking one shot infantry cuz you giving us limited ammo, in no fking game in the world do vehicles have limited ammo except those stupid ones. Please-buff tanks not nerf. Nerfing is not the solution. Also to people who are tanker, the turrets are getting a huge nerf. scat blasters now doing 105 dmg instead of 150.1 and on top of that, you only have 480 rounds in which im guessing that you reload after 80.

1.) Total vehicle SP has dropped by near 32 multipliers.
2.) Stats on the New Vehicle sheet are preliminary and current WIP, while I would love to get an update of the information out CCP Wolfman is still processing the feedback.
3.) AV weaponry is getting adjusted in 1.7
4.) No such thing as scattered blasters in 1.7 yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdFZ2ZzEyNW1neVdqYUF4bXU5NUdUOXc&usp=docslist_api#gid=2

i just want my 10mil sp back to put into something useful, like shotguns and scouts

If a thread is made about abolishing 1.7 and has 30 signatures, 1.7 will be abolished. 1.7 is making tanks a bigger sp sink and nerfing tanks into the groud to a point where they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Shame on you CCP, And i better be able to fking one shot infantry cuz you giving us limited ammo, in no fking game in the world do vehicles have limited ammo except those stupid ones. Please-buff tanks not nerf. Nerfing is not the solution. Also to people who are tanker, the turrets are getting a huge nerf. scat blasters now doing 105 dmg instead of 150.1 and on top of that, you only have 480 rounds in which im guessing that you reload after 80.

Enough Said
CCP is clueless on vehicles.

1.) Total vehicle SP has dropped by near 32 multipliers.
2.) Stats on the New Vehicle sheet are preliminary and current WIP, while I would love to get an update of the information out CCP Wolfman is still processing the feedback.
3.) AV weaponry is getting adjusted in 1.7
4.) No such thing as scattered blasters in 1.7 yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdFZ2ZzEyNW1neVdqYUF4bXU5NUdUOXc&usp=docslist_api#gid=2

So please, find legitimate things to complain about instead of making up crap.

personal investment into vehicles in dust is just a stupid way of spending your hard earned **** and having it blow up in your face in 5 seconds. I am fully specced into tanks and I barley ever fking take out a tank anymore.

That thread is dated back to July. Is there a more updated one?

don't care. skill into something you like. stop qqing.

*slap*

I am looking forward to 1.7. Everything is being reworked and will actually fill a role. Blasters were in need of change. They were simply best at everything: they had the highest DPS, best AV within their optimal, and best against infantry. I feel like a damage decrease is necessary, as it will be more useful against infantry than against other vehicles, giving it a well defined role.

Railguns and missiles are getting buffed, however, not nerfed as you claim. Railguns will have smaller heat costs with higher damage per shot. Missiles also get increased damage per missile, in addition to the large variants being fully automatic with a 12 round clip and .15s fire interval, which will make large missile turrets have the highest DPS in the game.

Also, the time spent in and out of battle will not be so different as you outline it. The current situation is more like you have outlined it: rush in, then bugger out in 10 seconds and wait for a minute to rep back to full and for modules to cooldown. Shield tanks are even worse because it takes a minute or two to get full shields from near depletion with a booster, while armor tanks only need 45 seconds before they can go back to battle from near death.

With the changes, the active modules are more powerful and last longer than what they are now, while their cooldown times are roughly the same.

I haven't done any math, but it doesn't seem like it's going to take more SP than it does now. It might actually take less SP, but I don't know. The racial skills have been removed which will let cross-training easier.

CCP, do not listen to this guy.

don't care. skill into something you like. stop qqing.

only thing thats worth skilling in to is some medium frame with **** ton of ehp but thats boring, i rather go scout or heavy but they suck so i went tank and they suck as well..

Maybe if CCP didn't listen to all the whiners in closed beta and the noobs of today, we wouldn't have these problems.

fixed it for you

If a thread is made about abolishing 1.7 and has 30 signatures, 1.7 will be abolished. 1.7 is making tanks a bigger sp sink and nerfing tanks into the groud to a point where they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Shame on you CCP, And i better be able to fking one shot infantry cuz you giving us limited ammo, in no fking game in the world do vehicles have limited ammo except those stupid ones. Please-buff tanks not nerf. Nerfing is not the solution. Also to people who are tanker, the turrets are getting a huge nerf. scat blasters now doing 105 dmg instead of 150.1 and on top of that, you only have 480 rounds in which im guessing that you reload after 80.

fixed it for you.

First, they said that those statistics are not concrete, variables and values can and probably WILL be changed, all that is what they have at the moment. We don't even know when that vehicle change WILL come, may not even be 1.7, plus we don't know what other changes are being made. Best thing to do is wait and see what happens, or give constructive critism and points.

When the tank changes come, and your still not happy, well you know what to do with the sp your gonna get back don't you?

Sigh, can't wait to QQ before you get the numbers on AV can't you.

Just...

First, they said that those statistics are not concrete, variables and values can and probably WILL be changed, all that is what they have at the moment. We don't even know when that vehicle change WILL come, may not even be 1.7, plus we don't know what other changes are being made. Best thing to do is wait and see what happens, or give constructive critism and points.

When the tank changes come, and your still not happy, well you know what to do with the sp your gonna get back don't you?

1) oh so CCP is compensating for how pathetic these vehicles will be?
2)https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93873
how much feedback did they take from this? give me a break dude
3) list one time CCP nerfed AV
4) just another nerf and better yet turrets remain bogged down by horrible hit detection

CCP cannot balance what isn't there to balance. We are missing two full racial lines, all modules meta level 4 and higher, advanced and proto hulls. I don't give a damn about your spreadsheet, when all that was needed was a little bit of listening on CCP's part. The fact the CPM members like yourself can't seem to wrap your heads around the bigger picture of this game is frightening.

What part of the absurd cool down times and ammo problems do you not understand. Is it fun to have to retreat every 60 seconds?

Where are active heat syncs?
Speed mods?
Remote Repairs?
Why are shield tanks the same speed as armor tanks?
Why are both tanks now 33%? slower than our current lolenforcers?

If CCP would sit down and talk with some vehicle pilots he might actually get it.

Sorry for ranting, but CCP and all of its lapdogs are in way over their heads.

AV has never and i mean NEVER been nerfed no need to get real results...

AV has never and i mean NEVER been nerfed no need to get real results...

Why go through the trouble when you can just buff us the way we wanted to be buffed... We want our PG skill, we want a nerf to proto AV (not a damage nerf), and we want a price reduction, we want our sagaris and suya back. And finally, we want a shield tank speed and active modules buff.

bf4 tanks are good... just letting CCP know...

btw... did you want a vehicle overhaul because i surely fking didn't, all CCP had to do was buff shield tank speed, nerf proto fg, make shield hardners last 20 seconds and nerf the av nades so they cannot be replenished by nanos and make swarms the way they used to be in 1.3.

Because you're wrong, and all that change would do is flip the unbalance in a direction that favors you, which seems to be all anyone around here cares about.

I'm getting tired of this stupid viewpoint of "whatever makes me destroy people is good for the game".

Seriously, people say politicians are retards, and then come here spouting the same crap they do and expect to be taken seriously.

bf4 tanks are good... just letting CCP know...

btw... did you want a vehicle overhaul because i surely fking didn't, all CCP had to do was buff shield tank speed, nerf proto fg, make shield hardners last 20 seconds and nerf the av nades so they cannot be replenished by nanos and make swarms the way they used to be in 1.3.

2. Thread's dated.

Because you're wrong, and all that change would do is flip the unbalance in a direction that favors you, which seems to be all anyone around here cares about.

I'm getting tired of this stupid viewpoint of "whatever makes me destroy people is good for the game".

Seriously, people say politicians are retards, and then come here spouting the same crap they do and expect to be taken seriously.

your ideas are bad

I think CCP should follow the idea they posted, making base hulls weak and modules stronger, sadly in the same dev bog they state that, they also state they are nerfing modules and buffing tank HP.

please explain to me how I am wrong? Go straight ahead and tell me why each and every single thing that I said is wrong...

Hate to answer a question with a question, but in what way do you think effectively reverting vehicle/infantry balance to what it was before would help?

The idea now is to have vehicle assets fill roles rather than having a progression, which just causes power creep.

When Marauders go back in, I'll bet you anything they'll be the opposite of the Enforcers, having bonuses to defensive stats with no bonus to offense, thus making them better at getting in close and tangling with AV.

The old Marauders were just a straight upgrade from the standard HAVs, rendering those into a useless stepping stone toward getting Marauders.

The Powergrid skill allowed you to give the vehicle a massive quantity of hitpoints while still increasing resistances as well, thus allowing someone with a good fit to be virtually indestructible.

Before you even try and argue with me, back in Chromosome I took my heavily armored Madrugar into a match that happened to have a full squad of WARRIORs on the other team led by Lisa Michelle. I rounded a rock formation and there were four of them with Ishukone Assault Forge Guns. I activated the Hardener and Armor Repairer I had equipped in addition to my armor plates, and I survived two full volleys before the third one killed me as I was trying to back up while still firing.

4 Proto AVers had to use 3 shots each to kill a Madrugar, not a Marauder. Please explain to me with your infinite wisdom how that scenario is in any way balanced.

because they were fighting a 50 ton vehicle with hardeners and repps on that are more powerful than a dropsuit module. tell me how a single guy throwing AV nades at me killing me in 3 seconds is balanced.

Because then ANYBODY can be AV
Herp-a-Derp.

because they were fighting a 50 ton vehicle with hardeners and repps on that are more powerful than a dropsuit module. tell me how a single guy throwing AV nades at me killing me in 3 seconds is balanced.

Usually in real life a tank dies in 0.2 seconds when engaged with the proper tool

You have military experience? Or are we just talking out our ass here?

Usually in real life a tank dies in 0.2 seconds when engaged with the proper tool

Since you're attempting to compare actual tanks with Dust tanks, here ya go:

Reactive Armor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUVnNk0aJBE
Trophy Active Protective System: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na29pFmoBzk
Smoke Screens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjlJi4l0cBs

Oh yeah, and here's a tank navigating bumpy terrain without taking massive hull damage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eypmJ9gskDk


I can keep going...

Sigh, can't wait to QQ before you get the numbers on AV can't you.

Just...

4 Proto AVers had to use 3 shots each to kill a Madrugar, not a Marauder. Please explain to me with your infinite wisdom how that scenario is in any way balanced.

Because then ANYBODY can be AV!

Herp-a-Derp.

There is work on making a man portable system capable of defeating the trophy system.

Smoke screens are so millennia ago and are no longer and have not been that effective for decades now.

You make a good armor

Someone is going to make a better bullet.

Just like how anybody could be a good tanker and not get it blown up even in the current environment.

Point out one time CCP has nerfed AV.

Reactive armor was defeated 10 years ago with introduction of Tandem Charged weapons.

Trophy system current does not work against kinetic kill weapons such as tank shells or larger missiles which do not have nose warheads. There is work on making a man portable system capable of defeating the trophy system.

Smoke screens are so millennia ago and are no longer and have not been that effective for decades now.

You make a good armor

Someone is going to make a better bullet.



RPG 25 is about 9k a pop, your typical chinese low grade stuff can range anywhere from 50 - 2k a pop, in general the amount of money it takes to kill a tank is always magnitudes far less than the tank.

Also stingers are proximity type missiles, not shape charged types. Most tanks would laugh the damage off (if you could they're primarily designed for anti air) though using said missile would **** the hell out of the trophy system off the tank and making it vulnerable to the next missile designed for killing said tank.

Makes no sense... In "real life" a crafty combat engineer like myself would just strap a bunch of forge guns to the front of the tank instead of garbage missiles. They take a fraction of the PG and CPU and pump out as much damage as a large rail turret.

Stop comparing **** to real life. Real tanks don't blow up with a number reaches zero.

Forge Gun Range Nerf
Swarm Damage Reduction
Forge Gun Damage Reduction
Forge Gun Splash Reduction
Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed.
Swarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed.
Swarm Launcher speed nerf.
Forge Gun Damage Nerf
Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf
Turret Installation AI dumbed down
Turret Installation HP massive nerf
Turret repairer removed.
Nerfed AV grenade Land Mines
Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons.
Nerfed Nanohive clusters
Light Poles nerfed.
Collision Model Changes
Collision Model Changes
Collision Model Changes

Please do keep going.

My point was about pricing in Dust. In general, the ratios are just way too far off but making them realistic would make tanks the equivalent of titans in EVE, except that a frigate can't kill a titan at full health in a few shots. I do think though that AV needs to cost somewhere between tanks and rifles (at least twice that of rifles)

More Countermeasures:

ECM Jamming Devices counter remote detonated explosives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VcD_0L6NQg

Physical/explosive activation systems counter landmines and other pressure detonated explosives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGbI9OeZo90

Yup most real tanks die with 99% hp left.

If only they could disappear past 200 meters because of draw distance. (or lack therof)



I'd entertain the "real life" comparison if this game had any physics going for it - but it doesn't.

CCP needs to stop tweaking and fix the fundamentals. Hit detection, draw distance, frame rates in games with lots of equipment, etc... We're getting regurgitated material instead of actual new content. I know this patch is going to be terrible - simply because its patching something that isn't broken. Some changes to a few core skills could solve all of this and all of that manpower could be solving these other game-breaking issues.

Seriously, I'm done beating a dead horse.

ECCM is a thing you know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjvUMwRDKMw
Prevents AWACs aircraft from jamming it.

Why have land mines that have to get ran over when you can have land mines that hunt seek and destroy their targets?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk

You'd think CoD would be teaching people a thing or two...

I love how you think you're arguing against me, but you're really arguing my point for me.

Dust has none of this fun, high-tech equipment you expect to come with the battlefield of the future. Such is my point... All of the equipment that you and I just mentioned exists now, on the modern battlefield. Yet we don't even have the simplest of countermeasures (smoke) even though (according to you) it's been around for 1000 years.

So we're fighting in a universe where ships travel the stars, yet modern combat technology trumps everything we have access to on the ground. You just helped me prove that point, and for that, I thank you.

CCP Team Kong has little to do with draw distance and frame rate however. Hid detection is not all of his thing either but he helps out there..

And lets be honest, vehicles will still be garbage with 60-260 more grid. That is about one and a half of prototype's module's worth of upgrade and you're looking at running out of CPU then.

Ummm... what?



Do you even tank? You seem to have no idea what you're talking about.

You do the math then tell me how that power grid skill is going to suddenly give tanks a role, LAVs a use, and dropships from being pathetic. Only two real winners would be the madruger and the python.

Am I one of the people that honestly does not give a **** about the vehicles?

I'm honestly more hurt about how I can't be a Gallentean heavy...

So then why are you posting on here?

CCP is understaffed, that has to be the reason for the slow progress. I can't blame them, the CELL on the PS3 is harder to program for. I hope they are secretly developing a PS4 version of DUST, from what I've read it takes only three months to learn how to program for it, the same as the original PS1, that's great news to me.

and you think we don't know this?

were just letting CCP decide for themselves if they want to kill pilots off or try to revive us.

were tired of their bullshit.

You have military experience? Or are we just talking out our ass here?

Forge Gun Range Nerf - Still hits from 300m, top of towers or rings and can still prevent vehicles access to nearly all the map
Swarm Damage Reduction - 3k per volley is a reduction?
Forge Gun Damage Reduction - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Forge Gun Splash Reduction - FG still has better splash than a vehicle mounted large railgun
Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed. - Only because it was hurting AV, FG are doing the same to AV right now but no one seems to be bothered, when it was the vehicle mounted railgun tho everyone QQ until it got nerfed to nothing
Swarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed. - 0.3sec relock time, might aswell been auto still since it can spit out 9k damage with 3 volleys in 3secs
Swarm Launcher speed nerf. - Still catches all LAVs, DS are the only ones who can actually escape by flying to the othter end of the mpa
Forge Gun Damage Nerf - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf - 9k damage from 3 volleys, stronger than a large vehicle mounted missile launcher and fires more missiles, so no
Turret Installation AI dumbed down - installation lock onto you automatically even if no one is in it and will shoot at you until you are behind cover or dead, so no
Turret Installation HP massive nerf - It has about 6k in health
Turret repairer removed. - Because that was so OP
Nerfed AV grenade Land Mines - The AV nades wasnt working as intended, AV mines were but no one used them because AV nades were bugged and were better and still are
Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons. - Really? my K2 nanos i can sit on and spam nades, same at the depot as well so no
Nerfed Nanohive clusters - Thats a nerf to all ammo so not a nerf to AV but a standard nerf to everything which uses ammo
Light Poles nerfed. - Nope, can still do 3k damage to you
Collision Model Changes - Collision to what? i can smack a shield tank with an armor tank and pop it

So nerfs to AV you were saying?

No more like buffs

You forgot the reduced lock time for swarms, the reduced relock time for swarms, the reduced reloading speed for swarms and that was 1.4

AV still have proto AV vs a basic tank with basic mods and your trying to say AV has been nerfed?

Forge Gun Range Nerf - Still hits from 300m, top of towers or rings and can still prevent vehicles access to nearly all the map
Swarm Damage Reduction - 3k per volley is a reduction?
Forge Gun Damage Reduction - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Forge Gun Splash Reduction - FG still has better splash than a vehicle mounted large railgun
Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed. - Only because it was hurting AV, FG are doing the same to AV right now but no one seems to be bothered, when it was the vehicle mounted railgun tho everyone QQ until it got nerfed to nothing
Swarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed. - 0.3sec relock time, might aswell been auto still since it can spit out 9k damage with 3 volleys in 3secs
Swarm Launcher speed nerf. - Still catches all LAVs, DS are the only ones who can actually escape by flying to the othter end of the mpa
Forge Gun Damage Nerf - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf - 9k damage from 3 volleys, stronger than a large vehicle mounted missile launcher and fires more missiles, so no
Turret Installation AI dumbed down - installation lock onto you automatically even if no one is in it and will shoot at you until you are behind cover or dead, so no
Turret Installation HP massive nerf - It has about 6k in health
Turret repairer removed. - Because that was so OP
Nerfed AV grenade Land Mines - The AV nades wasnt working as intended, AV mines were but no one used them because AV nades were bugged and were better and still are
Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons. - Really? my K2 nanos i can sit on and spam nades, same at the depot as well so no
Nerfed Nanohive clusters - Thats a nerf to all ammo so not a nerf to AV but a standard nerf to everything which uses ammo
Light Poles nerfed. - Nope, can still do 3k damage to you
Collision Model Changes - Collision to what? i can smack a shield tank with an armor tank and pop it

So nerfs to AV you were saying?

No more like buffs

You forgot the reduced lock time for swarms, the reduced relock time for swarms, the reduced reloading speed for swarms and that was 1.4

AV still have proto AV vs a basic tank with basic mods and your trying to say AV has been nerfed?

they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat.

1. You could not refute all the points made out
2. this list was very incomplete.
3. It sounds like you don't have any horror stories of getting nailed by theses AV before they got nerfed.
4. the logic used is poor, I can declare HAVs never got nerfed and apply the same tact in return

EDIT: Also, if you payed any attention, you'd know that IWS actually does have military experience.

because the infantry have complained about everything they cant one shot or use minimal intelligence or effort to destroy and thus, its gotten to where even brain dead retards can kill us easily

CCP Team Kong has little to do with draw distance and frame rate however. Hid detection is not all of his thing either but he helps out there.. And lets be honest, vehicles will still be garbage with 60-260 more grid. That is about one and a half of prototype's module's worth of upgrade and you're looking at running out of CPU then.

It's simple, really. Tanks have been in since beta.

All the racial suits have been in si-... oh.

If a thread is made about abolishing 1.7 and has 30 signatures, 1.7 will be abolished. 1.7 is making tanks a bigger sp sink and nerfing tanks into the groud to a point where they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Shame on you CCP, And i better be able to fking one shot infantry cuz you giving us limited ammo, in no fking game in the world do vehicles have limited ammo except those stupid ones. Please-buff tanks not nerf. Nerfing is not the solution. Also to people who are tanker, the turrets are getting a huge nerf. scat blasters now doing 105 dmg instead of 150.1 and on top of that, you only have 480 rounds in which im guessing that you reload after 80.

calm down. the blaster stats were not changed so we dont know what adv or proto will be.
turrets actually got a buff.
tanks now have MORE EHP than they do now.
Shield tanks can become invulnerable to explosives and everything else except lasers will tickle.
Armor tanks get the 0.4 resistance from 1 module vs .45 from two.
to fully spec one tank type (shield or armor) and one turret, it is slightly over 14,000,000 SP, which is actually less than it costs, now. A decent tank with proto turrets and complex modules and 3 prof in most things will only be 3,109,200 SP. To fit a basic tank with std turret and basic modules is around 750,000 SP.

So, actually, tanks need less SP, do MORE damage, and take MORE hits- not to mention how nitros will make us move at 48m/s. haha. yeah. please do math before you tell people that they're wrong.

Wow, this sounds like what dropships have been going through since before I started in January. Stupid tanker QQ.