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Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
327
   |
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
I'm willing to give the new changes a go. But then I'm a scientist and I don' like measuring an outcome before it is resolved (I'm not an quantum physicist  )
Though I understand your trepidation. Were used to outright tanking max HP and a very rapid armour recovery. The focus in the new build will be resistance speed and damage. We also have to consider the reintroduction of the specialist vehicle which will potentially change the way the mods are used.
Also have you noticed the 'Unlocks all race variants' ? in the command tree? That will greatly increase the versatility. If they applied this to the suit skill tree it would make the standard frames the 'I don't know which suits me, I'll try this one today' rather than forcing you down a specialist line straight away. It also gives a purpose to go proto in these areas if you wish - You sacrifice specialisation for diversity.
The same could be applied to the weapons. At the moment we don't really know where the AR racial variants will sit in the current tree, so some players (like me) are reluctant to spec into it or similar weapons not knowing where the change will come.
We need to test these new ideas, we can't just dismiss them outright because we don't know the full scope of the changes. |
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
Makes no sense... In "real life" a crafty combat engineer like myself would just strap a bunch of forge guns to the front of the tank instead of garbage missiles. They take a fraction of the PG and CPU and pump out as much damage as a large rail turret.
Stop comparing **** to real life. Real tanks don't blow up with a number reaches zero. |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
626
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:16:00 -
[63] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote: Reactive armor was defeated 10 years ago with introduction of Tandem Charged weapons. Trophy system current does not work against kinetic kill weapons such as tank shells or larger missiles which do not have nose warheads. There is work on making a man portable system capable of defeating the trophy system. Smoke screens are so millennia ago and are no longer and have not been that effective for decades now. You make a good armor Someone is going to make a better bullet. Harpyja wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Void Echo wrote:
because they were fighting a 50 ton vehicle with hardeners and repps on that are more powerful than a dropsuit module. tell me how a single guy throwing AV nades at me killing me in 3 seconds is balanced.
Usually in real life a tank dies in 0.2 seconds when engaged with the proper tool Usually, that tool costs at least one order of magnitude greater than a rifle. But everyone will QQ if proto AV cost ~450k each (~10x the cost of proto infantry weapons) Just for comparison, the most commonly used rifle by the US is the M4, which costs about $1500. The most popular anti-tank/anti-air missile are the javelin and stinger, which cost $78,000 and $38,000 per missile, respectively. Yes this is sophisticated tech while an RPG can go for $1500 per warhead on the black market. However, Dust AV relates to Dust infantry weapons as sophisticated anti-tank/anti-air missiles relate to rifles in our world. RPG 25 is about 9k a pop, your typical chinese low grade stuff can range anywhere from 50 - 2k a pop, in general the amount of money it takes to kill a tank is always magnitudes far less than the tank. Also stingers are proximity type missiles, not shape charged types. Most tanks would laugh the damage off (if you could they're primarily designed for anti air) though using said missile would **** the hell out of the trophy system off the tank and making it vulnerable to the next missile designed for killing said tank.
My point was about pricing in Dust. In general, the ratios are just way too far off but making them realistic would make tanks the equivalent of titans in EVE, except that a frigate can't kill a titan at full health in a few shots. I do think though that AV needs to cost somewhere between tanks and rifles (at least twice that of rifles) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9454
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:17:00 -
[64] - Quote
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:Makes no sense... In "real life" a crafty combat engineer like myself would just strap a bunch of forge guns to the front of the tank instead of garbage missiles. They take a fraction of the PG and CPU and pump out as much damage as a large rail turret.
Stop comparing **** to real life. Real tanks don't blow up with a number reaches zero.
Yup most real tanks die with 99% hp left. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1043
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Posted - 2013.10.16 05:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:If a thread is made about abolishing 1.7 and has 30 signatures, 1.7 will be abolished. 1.7 is making tanks a bigger sp sink and nerfing tanks into the groud to a point where they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Shame on you CCP, And i better be able to fking one shot infantry cuz you giving us limited ammo, in no fking game in the world do vehicles have limited ammo except those stupid ones. Please-buff tanks not nerf. Nerfing is not the solution. Also to people who are tanker, the turrets are getting a huge nerf. scat blasters now doing 105 dmg instead of 150.1 and on top of that, you only have 480 rounds in which im guessing that you reload after 80. Sigh, can't wait to QQ before you get the numbers on AV can't you. Just... Point out one time CCP has nerfed AV. Forge Gun Range Nerf Swarm Damage Reduction Forge Gun Damage Reduction Forge Gun Splash Reduction Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed. Swarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed. Swarm Launcher speed nerf. Forge Gun Damage Nerf Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf Turret Installation AI dumbed down Turret Installation HP massive nerf Turret repairer removed. Nerfed AV grenade Land Mines Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons. Nerfed Nanohive clusters Light Poles nerfed. Collision Model Changes Collision Model Changes Collision Model Changes
Patch notes, not a randomly generated list with nothing to back it up. |
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
44
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote: Please do keep going.
More Countermeasures:
ECM Jamming Devices counter remote detonated explosives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VcD_0L6NQg
Physical/explosive activation systems counter landmines and other pressure detonated explosives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGbI9OeZo90
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9454
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:
My point was about pricing in Dust. In general, the ratios are just way too far off but making them realistic would make tanks the equivalent of titans in EVE, except that a frigate can't kill a titan at full health in a few shots. I do think though that AV needs to cost somewhere between tanks and rifles (at least twice that of rifles)
I wont argue against raising the prices of the devices but there is the catch of what the prices would do when the economy is released. We can't go around balancing around price tags anyways. Same can be said for tanks, if tanks become really unpopular they either go super cheap or super expensive because of how supply and demands are made.
In order of magnitudes however the price of the 'hull' should be based on how often its expected to die. Tanks are a bit up there and still die too easily, however... out of all the price to survival ratios out there, Dropships have it the worst, and military grade Tanks are currently even with the all the fubar stuff with the av and vehicles are the only vehicle with a lifespan average of that greater than one match.
Then there is the issue of ownership.
Tanks in battlefield feel good, you want to know why?
They're free.
They cost nothing and have no set backs other than blowing one up early means waiting for it to respawn eventually.
Dying has to still matter in this game. Back in the worst days of AV, I could have blown up a sagaris to no effect because the pilot was insanely rich already constantly going 40+/0 several matches in a row, a 4 million isk tank meant nothing to him.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9454
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:
ECCM is a thing you know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjvUMwRDKMw
Prevents AWACs aircraft from jamming it.
Why have land mines that have to get ran over when you can have land mines that hunt seek and destroy their targets?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk
You'd think CoD would be teaching people a thing or two... |
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:40:00 -
[69] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:Makes no sense... In "real life" a crafty combat engineer like myself would just strap a bunch of forge guns to the front of the tank instead of garbage missiles. They take a fraction of the PG and CPU and pump out as much damage as a large rail turret.
Stop comparing **** to real life. Real tanks don't blow up with a number reaches zero. Yup most real tanks die with 99% hp left.
If only they could disappear past 200 meters because of draw distance. (or lack therof)
I'd entertain the "real life" comparison if this game had any physics going for it - but it doesn't.
CCP needs to stop tweaking and fix the fundamentals. Hit detection, draw distance, frame rates in games with lots of equipment, etc... We're getting regurgitated material instead of actual new content. I know this patch is going to be terrible - simply because its patching something that isn't broken. Some changes to a few core skills could solve all of this and all of that manpower could be solving these other game-breaking issues.
Seriously, I'm done beating a dead horse. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9454
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:Makes no sense... In "real life" a crafty combat engineer like myself would just strap a bunch of forge guns to the front of the tank instead of garbage missiles. They take a fraction of the PG and CPU and pump out as much damage as a large rail turret.
Stop comparing **** to real life. Real tanks don't blow up with a number reaches zero. Yup most real tanks die with 99% hp left. If only they could disappear past 200 meters because of draw distance. (or lack therof) I'd entertain the "real life" comparison if this game had any physics going for it - but it doesn't. CCP needs to stop tweaking and fix the fundamentals. Hit detection, draw distance, frame rates in games with lots of equipment, etc... We're getting regurgitated material instead of actual new content. I know this patch is going to be terrible - simply because its patching something that isn't broken. Some changes to a few core skills could solve all of this and all of that manpower could be solving these other game-breaking issues.Seriously, I'm done beating a dead horse.
CCP Team Kong has little to do with draw distance and frame rate however. Hid detection is not all of his thing either but he helps out there.. And lets be honest, vehicles will still be garbage with 60-260 more grid. That is about one and a half of prototype's module's worth of upgrade and you're looking at running out of CPU then. |
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MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:46:00 -
[71] - Quote
I love how you think you're arguing against me, but you're really arguing my point for me.
Dust has none of this fun, high-tech equipment you expect to come with the battlefield of the future. Such is my point... All of the equipment that you and I just mentioned exists now, on the modern battlefield. Yet we don't even have the simplest of countermeasures (smoke) even though (according to you) it's been around for 1000 years.
So we're fighting in a universe where ships travel the stars, yet modern combat technology trumps everything we have access to on the ground. You just helped me prove that point, and for that, I thank you. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9455
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:
I love how you think you're arguing against me, but you're really arguing my point for me.
Dust has none of this fun, high-tech equipment you expect to come with the battlefield of the future. Such is my point... All of the equipment that you and I just mentioned exists now, on the modern battlefield. Yet we don't even have the simplest of countermeasures (smoke) even though (according to you) it's been around for 1000 years.
So we're fighting in a universe where ships travel the stars, yet modern combat technology trumps everything we have access to on the ground. You just helped me prove that point, and for that, I thank you.
I love how you think you have a point that is shared with mine.
At some point the military evolution is going to render the thinking of said device no longer valid.
Rocks
Sticks
Sticks with Rocks
Yo-yos
Sling Shots
Knights
Cross Bows
Castles
Calvary
Battleships
Tanks by most accounts is next on the extinction list and is much nearer than
Piloted Aircraft
and by Dust 514 standards our HAVs and LAVs are pre clone tech. They were originally we're not designed with having shields or dealing with forge guns. One of the most effective anti vehicle weapons out there not being deployed by us is a hunter drone. Clone tech stuff keeps getting better and better than all the old world standards. Which is probably why the Amarrians even with their full lineup of vehicles are not on the field because they know the clone soldiers are a generation ahead and it would be a near total waste to send those to their deaths against cloners when it can be more effectively used against non cloners. |
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CCP Team Kong has little to do with draw distance and frame rate however. Hid detection is not all of his thing either but he helps out there..
Ummm... what?
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:And lets be honest, vehicles will still be garbage with 60-260 more grid. That is about one and a half of prototype's module's worth of upgrade and you're looking at running out of CPU then.
Do you even tank? You seem to have no idea what you're talking about.
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Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
448
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Am I one of the people that honestly does not give a **** about the vehicles?
I'm honestly more hurt about how I can't be a Gallentean heavy... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9457
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CCP Team Kong has little to do with draw distance and frame rate however. Hid detection is not all of his thing either but he helps out there.. Ummm... what? Iron Wolf Saber wrote:And lets be honest, vehicles will still be garbage with 60-260 more grid. That is about one and a half of prototype's module's worth of upgrade and you're looking at running out of CPU then. Do you even tank? You seem to have no idea what you're talking about.
You do the math then tell me how that power grid skill is going to suddenly give tanks a role, LAVs a use, and dropships from being pathetic. Only two real winners would be the madruger and the python.
I bet you in nearly every instance where you have died so far there was already another attack against your vehicle on the way. |
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CCP Team Kong has little to do with draw distance and frame rate however. Hid detection is not all of his thing either but he helps out there.. Ummm... what? Iron Wolf Saber wrote:And lets be honest, vehicles will still be garbage with 60-260 more grid. That is about one and a half of prototype's module's worth of upgrade and you're looking at running out of CPU then. Do you even tank? You seem to have no idea what you're talking about. You do the math then tell me how that power grid skill is going to suddenly give tanks a role, LAVs a use, and dropships from being pathetic. Only two real winners would be the madruger and the python.
Math? I don't need math...
-Lack of a "role" for tanks: The lack of a role for tanks isn't even a problem. I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
-Lack of a "use" for LAVs: LAVs aren't used for things because they aren't rewarded for them and they're impractical.
---Simple fixes:
---------Change repair kits and view on LLAVs so that they can easily lock-on and give great WP for repairing friendly units/vehicles to encourage their use.
--------- Drop the gun on the non-logistics version and make it a 4 seater fast-transport.
----------Give the driver, gunner and occupants some protection. LAV occupants and gunners are too vulnerable to small arms fire.
-Dropships are "pathetic":
I don't fly dropships, so I don't know too much about them. Seems as though there ought to be some counter-measures on those as well. To be honest, the assault dropship is trying to fill the role of an attack jet - It's just nonsensical. I view dropships as transport vehicles primarily, yet not fully unarmed. The Assault can continue to fill an attack/transport role, and then make a new class (you can just copypasta the assault dropship and edit the stats - I know CCP loves doing that) -- Have the new dropship be an "Attack Dropship" to fill the next few years until you implement jets. Give it two small turrets that both face front and are both controlled by the pilot. No other seats than the pilot - pure attack vehicle...
Or ya know... You could put all that on the backburner and fix the ******* draw distance and hit detection... You know, those fundamental principles that make a game playable?
I'm done here.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9457
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
First off
I am not a developer, I fix nothing.
Lack of a real role for the HAV is a problem, its the most massive problem with the damn vehicle.
What is it supposed to do, I can get dozens of answers and the HAV literally fails at just about all of them cept save one: Expensive Target.
What you and I call rewards are two different things because destroying equipment is an reward even if it provided no war points, if I could design something where player behavior will see to the said action without reward then its a good system. Rewards should be sugar on top.
HD is pretty good when it comes to vehicles and unless you're rail sniping DD isn't too bad. I am more pissed off about Dysncing issues instead, lack of awareness, and better hit sounds and UI inferring where I am getting hit from. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1044
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:48:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:Am I one of the people that honestly does not give a **** about the vehicles?
I'm honestly more hurt about how I can't be a Gallentean heavy...
So then why are you posting on here? |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3345
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:49:00 -
[79] - Quote
ITT: "I have no idea what CCP has in store for the Vehicle/AV rebalance, despite them showing us all the details available on vehicle rebalance and stating that they intend to rebalance AV as a direct result of this and because of this I am crying tears of fury in a blatant attempt to get everyone else to join me despite the basis being assumption, speculation and information gained from a magic crystal ball."
Edit: Also, Planetside 2 has vehicle ammunition count and since you guys are always going on about how it's God's gift to FPS games, you'd think this wouldn't be the highest on our list of problems. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
450
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
So then why are you posting on here?
It's simple, really. Tanks have been in since beta.
All the racial suits have been in si-... oh. |
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Medical Crash
Pro Hic Immortalis
154
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Posted - 2013.10.16 07:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP is understaffed, that has to be the reason for the slow progress. I can't blame them, the CELL on the PS3 is harder to program for. I hope they are secretly developing a PS4 version of DUST, from what I've read it takes only three months to learn how to program for it, the same as the original PS1, that's great news to me. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3348
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
Medical Crash wrote: CCP is understaffed, that has to be the reason for the slow progress. I can't blame them, the CELL on the PS3 is harder to program for. I hope they are secretly developing a PS4 version of DUST, from what I've read it takes only three months to learn how to program for it, the same as the original PS1, that's great news to me.
Think they'd be better off spending their money on re-vamping the Carbon engine to work on consoles =P |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
466
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:15:00 -
[83] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:and you think we don't know this?
were just letting CCP decide for themselves if they want to kill pilots off or try to revive us.
were tired of their bullshit.
i agree if ccp doesnt want vehicles that cool ps2 has great tank or so i hear |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3715
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 11:37:00 -
[84] - Quote
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Usually in real life a tank dies in 0.2 seconds when engaged with the proper tool
You have military experience? Or are we just talking out our ass here?
You can see examples of that just by browsing YouTube. Ever seen what happens to a tank hit by a TOW rocket or one from a Javelin? Let's not forget that an anti-armor weapon hitting a tank in the vulnerable rear radiator/exhaust grille is pretty much guaranteed to disable or destroy it.
The idea of "waves of opportunity" is actually very similar to the concept of the "Active Defense" system on vehicles in Battlefield 2142 (since so many people talk about Battlefield in this thread).
In that game, when the driver spotted a lot of incoming AV, he could activate a 3-second period of complete invulnerability that would then have a long cooldown time and leave him vulnerable. If he exercised good enough timing with the activation, he could successfully weather an attack that would have killed him otherwise, and withdraw to try and repair and prepare to re-engage.
Our current Enforcers have bonuses to weapon damage. So say that Marauders have a bonus to defensive stats and no bonuses to weapons?
Why not have one of those bonuses be to Active Module duration? Since an Gallente Enforcer only receives bonuses to blasters, but I think it's pretty obvious that that is due to their no being a long-range Gallente weapon in the game as of yet. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1374
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 12:36:00 -
[85] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:If a thread is made about abolishing 1.7 and has 30 signatures, 1.7 will be abolished. 1.7 is making tanks a bigger sp sink and nerfing tanks into the groud to a point where they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Shame on you CCP, And i better be able to fking one shot infantry cuz you giving us limited ammo, in no fking game in the world do vehicles have limited ammo except those stupid ones. Please-buff tanks not nerf. Nerfing is not the solution. Also to people who are tanker, the turrets are getting a huge nerf. scat blasters now doing 105 dmg instead of 150.1 and on top of that, you only have 480 rounds in which im guessing that you reload after 80. Sigh, can't wait to QQ before you get the numbers on AV can't you. Just... Point out one time CCP has nerfed AV. Forge Gun Range Nerf - Still hits from 300m, top of towers or rings and can still prevent vehicles access to nearly all the mapSwarm Damage Reduction - 3k per volley is a reduction?Forge Gun Damage Reduction - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no Forge Gun Splash Reduction - FG still has better splash than a vehicle mounted large railgun Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed. - Only because it was hurting AV, FG are doing the same to AV right now but no one seems to be bothered, when it was the vehicle mounted railgun tho everyone QQ until it got nerfed to nothingSwarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed. - 0.3sec relock time, might aswell been auto still since it can spit out 9k damage with 3 volleys in 3secsSwarm Launcher speed nerf. - Still catches all LAVs, DS are the only ones who can actually escape by flying to the othter end of the mpaForge Gun Damage Nerf - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf - 9k damage from 3 volleys, stronger than a large vehicle mounted missile launcher and fires more missiles, so noTurret Installation AI dumbed down - installation lock onto you automatically even if no one is in it and will shoot at you until you are behind cover or dead, so no Turret Installation HP massive nerf - It has about 6k in healthTurret repairer removed. - Because that was so OPNerfed AV grenade Land Mines - The AV nades wasnt working as intended, AV mines were but no one used them because AV nades were bugged and were better and still are Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons. - Really? my K2 nanos i can sit on and spam nades, same at the depot as well so noNerfed Nanohive clusters - Thats a nerf to all ammo so not a nerf to AV but a standard nerf to everything which uses ammoLight Poles nerfed. - Nope, can still do 3k damage to you Collision Model Changes - Collision to what? i can smack a shield tank with an armor tank and pop it
So nerfs to AV you were saying?
No more like buffs
You forgot the reduced lock time for swarms, the reduced relock time for swarms, the reduced reloading speed for swarms and that was 1.4
AV still have proto AV vs a basic tank with basic mods and your trying to say AV has been nerfed?
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KenKaniff69
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
689
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:If a thread is made about abolishing 1.7 and has 30 signatures, 1.7 will be abolished. 1.7 is making tanks a bigger sp sink and nerfing tanks into the groud to a point where they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Shame on you CCP, And i better be able to fking one shot infantry cuz you giving us limited ammo, in no fking game in the world do vehicles have limited ammo except those stupid ones. Please-buff tanks not nerf. Nerfing is not the solution. Also to people who are tanker, the turrets are getting a huge nerf. scat blasters now doing 105 dmg instead of 150.1 and on top of that, you only have 480 rounds in which im guessing that you reload after 80. Sigh, can't wait to QQ before you get the numbers on AV can't you. Just... Point out one time CCP has nerfed AV. Forge Gun Range Nerf - Still hits from 300m, top of towers or rings and can still prevent vehicles access to nearly all the mapSwarm Damage Reduction - 3k per volley is a reduction?Forge Gun Damage Reduction - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no Forge Gun Splash Reduction - FG still has better splash than a vehicle mounted large railgun Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed. - Only because it was hurting AV, FG are doing the same to AV right now but no one seems to be bothered, when it was the vehicle mounted railgun tho everyone QQ until it got nerfed to nothingSwarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed. - 0.3sec relock time, might aswell been auto still since it can spit out 9k damage with 3 volleys in 3secsSwarm Launcher speed nerf. - Still catches all LAVs, DS are the only ones who can actually escape by flying to the othter end of the mpaForge Gun Damage Nerf - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf - 9k damage from 3 volleys, stronger than a large vehicle mounted missile launcher and fires more missiles, so noTurret Installation AI dumbed down - installation lock onto you automatically even if no one is in it and will shoot at you until you are behind cover or dead, so no Turret Installation HP massive nerf - It has about 6k in healthTurret repairer removed. - Because that was so OPNerfed AV grenade Land Mines - The AV nades wasnt working as intended, AV mines were but no one used them because AV nades were bugged and were better and still are Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons. - Really? my K2 nanos i can sit on and spam nades, same at the depot as well so noNerfed Nanohive clusters - Thats a nerf to all ammo so not a nerf to AV but a standard nerf to everything which uses ammoLight Poles nerfed. - Nope, can still do 3k damage to you Collision Model Changes - Collision to what? i can smack a shield tank with an armor tank and pop it So nerfs to AV you were saying? No more like buffs You forgot the reduced lock time for swarms, the reduced relock time for swarms, the reduced reloading speed for swarms and that was 1.4 AV still have proto AV vs a basic tank with basic mods and your trying to say AV has been nerfed?
In addition all AV is invisible now due to draw distance issues. CCP also messed with efficacy ratings to hurt armor, the only viable tank left, swarms up to 135% form 110% and forges up to 110% from 90%. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9471
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Posted - 2013.10.16 15:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Forge Gun Range Nerf - Still hits from 300m, top of towers or rings and can still prevent vehicles access to nearly all the map
Swarm Damage Reduction - 3k per volley is a reduction?
Forge Gun Damage Reduction - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Forge Gun Splash Reduction - FG still has better splash than a vehicle mounted large railgun
Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed. - Only because it was hurting AV, FG are doing the same to AV right now but no one seems to be bothered, when it was the vehicle mounted railgun tho everyone QQ until it got nerfed to nothing
Swarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed. - 0.3sec relock time, might aswell been auto still since it can spit out 9k damage with 3 volleys in 3secs
Swarm Launcher speed nerf. - Still catches all LAVs, DS are the only ones who can actually escape by flying to the othter end of the mpa
Forge Gun Damage Nerf - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf - 9k damage from 3 volleys, stronger than a large vehicle mounted missile launcher and fires more missiles, so no
Turret Installation AI dumbed down - installation lock onto you automatically even if no one is in it and will shoot at you until you are behind cover or dead, so no
Turret Installation HP massive nerf - It has about 6k in health
Turret repairer removed. - Because that was so OP
Nerfed AV grenade Land Mines - The AV nades wasnt working as intended, AV mines were but no one used them because AV nades were bugged and were better and still are
Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons. - Really? my K2 nanos i can sit on and spam nades, same at the depot as well so no
Nerfed Nanohive clusters - Thats a nerf to all ammo so not a nerf to AV but a standard nerf to everything which uses ammo
Light Poles nerfed. - Nope, can still do 3k damage to you
Collision Model Changes - Collision to what? i can smack a shield tank with an armor tank and pop it
So nerfs to AV you were saying?
No more like buffs
You forgot the reduced lock time for swarms, the reduced relock time for swarms, the reduced reloading speed for swarms and that was 1.4
AV still have proto AV vs a basic tank with basic mods and your trying to say AV has been nerfed?
1. You could not refute all the points made out
2. this list was very incomplete.
3. It sounds like you don't have any horror stories of getting nailed by theses AV before they got nerfed.
4. the logic used is poor, I can declare HAVs never got nerfed and apply the same tact in return |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
696
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 15:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:they have to retreat to the red line for 2 minutes after 10 seconds of combat. Wow, this sounds like what dropships have been going through since before I started in January. Stupid tanker QQ. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1381
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 15:21:00 -
[89] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Forge Gun Range Nerf - Still hits from 300m, top of towers or rings and can still prevent vehicles access to nearly all the map
Swarm Damage Reduction - 3k per volley is a reduction?
Forge Gun Damage Reduction - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Forge Gun Splash Reduction - FG still has better splash than a vehicle mounted large railgun
Swarm Launcher Dumbfire removed. - Only because it was hurting AV, FG are doing the same to AV right now but no one seems to be bothered, when it was the vehicle mounted railgun tho everyone QQ until it got nerfed to nothing
Swarm Launcher Full Automatic Firing removed. - 0.3sec relock time, might aswell been auto still since it can spit out 9k damage with 3 volleys in 3secs
Swarm Launcher speed nerf. - Still catches all LAVs, DS are the only ones who can actually escape by flying to the othter end of the mpa
Forge Gun Damage Nerf - Still stronger than every vehicle mounted railgun turret on base stats, breach is about 1k more damage, so no
Swarm Launcher Damage Nerf - 9k damage from 3 volleys, stronger than a large vehicle mounted missile launcher and fires more missiles, so no
Turret Installation AI dumbed down - installation lock onto you automatically even if no one is in it and will shoot at you until you are behind cover or dead, so no
Turret Installation HP massive nerf - It has about 6k in health
Turret repairer removed. - Because that was so OP
Nerfed AV grenade Land Mines - The AV nades wasnt working as intended, AV mines were but no one used them because AV nades were bugged and were better and still are
Massively increased cluster consumption of grenades and AV weapons. - Really? my K2 nanos i can sit on and spam nades, same at the depot as well so no
Nerfed Nanohive clusters - Thats a nerf to all ammo so not a nerf to AV but a standard nerf to everything which uses ammo
Light Poles nerfed. - Nope, can still do 3k damage to you
Collision Model Changes - Collision to what? i can smack a shield tank with an armor tank and pop it
So nerfs to AV you were saying?
No more like buffs
You forgot the reduced lock time for swarms, the reduced relock time for swarms, the reduced reloading speed for swarms and that was 1.4
AV still have proto AV vs a basic tank with basic mods and your trying to say AV has been nerfed?
1. You could not refute all the points made out 2. this list was very incomplete. 3. It sounds like you don't have any horror stories of getting nailed by theses AV before they got nerfed. 4. the logic used is poor, I can declare HAVs never got nerfed and apply the same tact in return
I countered all your points
You say nerfs but they are still infact better than a large turret which needs a vehicle to work and also are alot cheaper ISK wise
The list was incomplete because you made it so, whos fault is that?
Back in the day HAVs and other vehicles were really good to use, to solo one took some doing but to make the job easier and kill it required teamwork and also AV was alot more expensive and players prefered to tryhard with an AR because it was easier and AV was harder, but also the best counter to a tank was another tank
The logic is fine, you are just changing the goalposts yet again like you did in that proto thread you made, you can try and say HAVs never got nerfed but a loss of skills/mods/vehicles and changing of skill descriptions to something less useful such as no bonus or it being an SP sink you cannot counter against - These are facts
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MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 15:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:
EDIT: Also, if you payed any attention, you'd know that IWS actually does have military experience.
If I payed any attention? To what, his post history? I've never talked w/ the guy outside of this thread. Sounds like he had a non-combat role anyway - get off his nuts. He suggested that armored vehicles just pop instantly in real life and he's basing that on some mash-up videos he saw of pilots dropping JDAMs on **** which somehow makes him a resident expert. I don't buy it, the same way I don't buy him talking about (Dust514) tank statistics as if he actually drove them. He doesn't now **** about either. I've been in multiple vehicles hit by IEDs and RPGs and driven right through the hit with marginal damage - because the vehicles I was in were intended to survive explosions and had the correct countermeasures in place. My argument isn't about tanks or survivability - it's the complete lack of countermeasures on Dust vehicles. I listed tons of MODERN counters that aren't even available to us on Dust.
When CCP implements jets, maybe I'll take your fanboy "everything CCP does is good" commentary slightly more seriously... But to be honest, I'm not waiting around 5 years to have that conversation.
Herp derp - How is any of this blathering relevant to dust? It's not - because this game has zero physics and doesn't relate to "real life" even remotely - as I've said numerous times.
In real life, running and jumping around like the Easter Bunny doesn't make you temporarily immune to bullets.
In real life, driving 200 meters away from something doesn't suddenly make you invisible.
In real life, an explosive the size of a slice of pizza doesn't do **** to an armored vehicle.
Stop comparing things you clearly don't understand.
CCP is a failure because they can't fix basic game mechanics (draw distance/hit detection) and instead are back to tweaking things and calling it "new content." It's a ******* joke. Can't wait until they paint a scout suit bright green and call it a pilot suit. I'm just not willing to wait til 2015 for "new" content that is just a regurgitation of old content.
LOL |
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