Could care less. The stat we really need (and I am using need liberally) is isk loss/made show up for everyone.

Could care less. The stat we really need (and I am using need liberally) is isk loss/made show up for everyone.

Thoughts for and against?

Bad players everywhere agree -- let's remove the single stat that helps good players judge them!

exactly. KDR is useless. the only factor in what makes you a good merc or not is your wallet.

I'd like to see it as it is a staple of FPS and actually most games with respawns...

I'd also like to see a new stat of WP/D though...

Kdr is an ambush stat. How else can victory in ambush be determined?

Bad players everywhere agree -- let's remove the single stat that helps good players judge them!

how would it change things to remove kdr? are you going to remove kills and deaths too? it's just a number.

Actually most game only display kills on the scoreboard, not deaths or KDR these are often only seen by the player in their personal stats. KZ BF and COD have all gotten away from blasting the amount of deaths and gone toward trumpeting the amount kills on the scoreboard and leaderboards.

In the instance of DUST 514 the only question to ask does it add any value to the game experience for the player to broadcast that stat at the end of every match. I can't think of a single positive thing it does especially in public matches (i think you could make an argument for PC). The best still are at the top of the scoreboard and leaderboard with their amount of kills and points and the worst are at the bottom. As is stands now if you're at the bottom you're chastised for killing too little and dieing too much which feeds a vicious cycle of player development that focus only on KDR which is not always congruent with good tactics or the goal of victory. In the end it only promotes lone wolf syndrome.

I dont get why u guys keep saying kdr are useless and want to remove it,if u guys don't care why u guys should care if kdr remove or not , it's just because u guys care when u see ur ****** kdr and want to remove it so u can feel better for yourself

no, we want it removed or less of importance mainly because you can have a good kd when your going up against people with far inferior equipment than you then do horrible with people on the same level as you, thus kd means nothing.

I dont get why u guys keep saying kdr are useless and want to remove it,if u guys don't care why u guys should care if kdr remove or not , it's just because u guys care when u see ur ****** kdr and want to remove it so u can feel better for yourself

I actually couldn't care less about my kdr, I keep it decent but I don't care how much I did in a pub match as long as I make enough isk to cover my losses (since I usually run militia these days it's not a problem)/win the match/get first place through wp/**** off the entire opposing team by killing them all in one way or another.
I usually get 1st place when I play pub matches and I like that, what I don't like is the way everyone ONLY cares about their kdr, they end up running right past objectives so they can chase some scout for a kill. I can honest attribute my success in most matches to not caring a single **** about my kdr

Thoughts for and against?

Thoughts for and against?

Remove kdr? I feel this would only serve to make bad/ new players feel better about themselves, and inconvenience players that wish to get a frame of reference as to how good other players are. Unless you have some master method of measuring skill with a different stat, kdr is the only frame of reference we have atm.

And what the hell is up with these suggestions for stats? We don't need any stats removed, only some new ones. How is how much isk an individual earns on average per game a measure of his skill?

The stats we need the most right now are average WP per game (not isk), and average KD spread per game.

You guys know what kd spread is right? Kills - Deaths = KD spread or in other words how many clones you help or hurt your time by on average. A much easier way of finding your current kd/spread would be to subtract your total lifetime kills by deaths, then divide that number by the total amount of games you have played in your entire Dust career.

Other stats for fairness to logis that we may need are average healing per game, successful revives/failed revives ratio (a revive that results in the revived player remaining alive for at least 30 seconds, divided by the amount of times they pick someone up in front of the firing squad). An average good revive (GR) bad revive (BR) spread per game (GRBR spread) would be useful as well.

Perhaps even average team spawns accrued per game. Of course, the more important stats should come first. More stats are nice, but having more than the essentials could also put too much strain on the system, causing more game crashes, memory leaks, etc.

Remove kdr? I feel this would only serve to make bad/ new players feel better about themselves, and inconvenience players that wish to get a frame of reference as to how good other players are. Unless you have some master method of measuring skill with a different stat, kdr is the only frame of reference we have atm.

And what the hell is up with these suggestions for stats? We don't need any stats removed, only some new ones. How is how much isk an individual earns on average per game a measure of his skill?

The stats we need the most right now are average WP per game (not isk), and average KD spread per game.

You guys know what kd spread is right? Kills - Deaths = KD spread or in other words how many clones you help or hurt your time by on average. A much easier way of finding your current kd/spread would be to subtract your total lifetime kills by deaths, then divide that number by the total amount of games you have played in your entire Dust career.

Other stats for fairness to logis that we may need are average healing per game, successful revives/failed revives ratio (a revive that results in the revived player remaining alive for at least 30 seconds, divided by the amount of times they pick someone up in front of the firing squad). An average good revive (GR) bad revive (BR) spread per game (GRBR spread) would be useful as well.

Perhaps even average team spawns accrued per game. Of course, the more important stats should come first. More stats are nice, but having more than the essentials could also put too much strain on the system, causing more game crashes, memory leaks, etc.

It would make the game infinitely better.

It would sensibly reduce the amount of raging, camping, insulting, cursing, quitting, pubstomping (oh yeah, especially pubstomping) and generally being a *****.

It would bring actual competition in-game and people would start to hack the objectives instead of sitting in the redline with a sniper rifle.

Probably the best possible update for this game.

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To answer what some people said, I don't want a ISK stat. Vehicle operators would have terrible ISK stats and there are other unfair elements to count in.

The only stats I want are total WP, kills, wins and more POSITIVE stats. KDR is Evil.

EDIT: My current KDR is 4.90 and sill I want it removed.

No, KDR is important. We need it to judge how good players are... People keep going on and on and on about how "it's about WP"... but actually, it is about kills.

Nawp. Are all new players bad, or are all new players forced to grind for sp in basic equipment against players in advanced and proto gear? Most newer players are guaranteed to have a losing record for a long, long time, which is probably the reason why this game has had issues with growth. I have a horrible KDR because I use starter and militia gear to grind isk in ambush in order to afford my tanks. I certainly don't consider myself a bad players because

A. Death brings no penalties.

B. Death has no effect on income earned (unless you're using expensive equipment.)

Explain to me why KDR is important. Explain to me the benefits of a winning record in a game where winning doesn't matter at all. Explain to me how being a try hard is more beneficial than being a coaster? I make the same money as you. I'm getting to the same gear level as you. Planetary conquest? Who gives a flip about that? Is it being the best? There are no benefits to being the best. No one cares.

The game is roughly 40% about gear and 60% about skill. Evidence of this is the fact that people get killed by militia equipment very often. Gear makes no huge difference, if you have the upper position and are good at aiming - you win... Gear plays an almost negligible factor.

You have a horrible KDR because you're bad at the game, not because you had bad gear. There is a tiny difference between militia weapon damage and meta 3 gear. This game is about strategy and not who has the best stuff. I can easily down a full proto person with a regular scrambler rifle because of my aiming and skill with the gun alone.

Death does bring a penalty - your team gets one step closer to losing, and you have to pay to replace your gear. And it does have an effect on income if you use advanced gear. There is no reason to be at militia gear by 20,000 WP.

It seems to me that you're hiding behind milita gear because you think it justifies you being bad at the game. My income isn't affected with meta 3 equipment, hop up to it and see how you actually do - and then you will genuinely realise that you're bad at the game, and it isn't the gear.

I hate it when people say that they aren't bad because they use low meta gear. This game is not about gear to a significant extent, it is about skill.

Why is KDR important? Every single game mode can be won by draining the enemy team of clones. Plus it greatly dampens your effect to the enemy team. Don't ever say that KDR doesn't matter... it really does.

KDR gets you into PC

Your actions and contribution to the team keep you in PC.

The Bottom Line:

If I do not know player X then my first assumption of his skill will be based on KDR. Harsh but the reality of an FPS

Nawp. Are all new players bad, or are all new players forced to grind for sp in basic equipment against players in advanced and proto gear? Most newer players are guaranteed to have a losing record for a long, long time, which is probably the reason why this game has had issues with growth. I have a horrible KDR because I use starter and militia gear to grind isk in ambush in order to afford my tanks. I certainly don't consider myself a bad players because

A. Death brings no penalties.

B. Death has no effect on income earned (unless you're using expensive equipment.)

Explain to me why KDR is important. Explain to me the benefits of a winning record in a game where winning doesn't matter at all. Explain to me how being a try hard is more beneficial than being a coaster? I make the same money as you. I'm getting to the same gear level as you. Planetary conquest? Who gives a flip about that? Is it being the best? There are no benefits to being the best. No one cares.

I would like to see KDR become KADR. Assists should count in the whole how good are you statistic. How many times do you unload a full mag into some proto heavy, and have the other guy do 19 damage to kill him. WP in general are a measure of how you advanced the team, however we all have to agree that dropping hives and uplinks is WP whoring in general. We all appreciate it, but its a WP grab for most logi that run through the battle paying more attention to their equipment than anything else.

I sucked bad when I started playing, my KDR is in a lot of ways not an indicator of how good I am now as opposed to how good I am on average over the course of my playing the game. In the real world, your only as good as you were yesterday, so maybe KDR should be calculated on a 30 day basis. anything you did 31 or more days ago is just not relevant and should be removed.

You lifetime kills is still a valid stat, but if your KDR is a 30 day statistic, corps could more accurately see how good you are now.

Hold on a second ... you "appreciate" the convenient Up-links that allows you to deploy in a safe area near the battle, and the Hives that resupplies you weapons with ammo when you need it the most....But you don't like people getting WP's for providing that service to you ?

That is a bit contradictory .

How is KD a judge of how good someone is?

I should have been more specific in my point. I don't think that WP should be used as a metric for how good a player is in regards to the KDR discussion. With the new addition of scanning WP this is going to get even more pronounced.

You get 50 wp for a kill.... right ? Maybe CCP should remove WP's from kills, to make you dream come true. I mean... according to you WP are irrelevant... so you will be happy with just K/D ratio and kills count, right ?

Right now i'm trying to figure out what it is your mind is turning this into? I don't have issues with WP, I just don't think its a valid way to determine someone's skill at the game. Please try reading a post instead of trying to find a reason to troll it. It makes you look like a moron.

Replace KDR with this? instead of kills, it read isk that player has "killed" and instead of deaths, have Isk that player lost?

Let's examine this KDR statistic and see what it really tells us about a player.


Kills/Deaths


That's a ratio, like how much sugar per part of flour in a dough.
A ratio tells you nothing about the amount of dough. You could bake a cupcake or a wedding cake with the same ratio.

A ratio won't tell you how many people it can feed.

Likewise That K/D Ratio won't tell you how many kills and deaths there were in a match. A 3-1 KDR could be obtained via 3/1, 9/3, or 30/10.

The ratio doesn't say anything about how active a player is, and that's one of the major complaints about the leader board.

You can more easily get a high ratio by hanging back and picking off the weak as you can charging the front line to take an objective. That's why snipers have astronomical ratios.

Your "interpretation" of Skills ... you think that only Killing and Dying determines how good you are at the game. But in Dust 514 is thousands of other factors to take into account .

Edit; Ok... maybe not thousands ... but definitely hundreds

Seems ridiculous, the game would be exclusively about griefing, we already have enough insignificant turds who do that.

It would switch from wanting to win to who is the biggest troll/griefer.

OurDeepestRegret:



Not one word in that convinced me any more that it is about you just being bad. I earn 200k per match with using full meta 3 and dying about 3-5 times on average. That subsidises me perfectly, so just hop out of militia and face the fact that you're probably just unskilled, and you are afraid to admit it, so you stick with militia gear...

As for the 40%/60% estimation, it was based on the fact that I die a 4:6 ratio of high level gear to militia level gear. So meta 3-4 gear only kills me 1.5x the amount of times militia does...

You're very lucky I even replied to that with the level of criticism of me and not my argument, so next time reconsider whether you want me to take anything you post seriously or not.