Crome tanks were mobile death fortresses. Even with several people firing on them they would rep and run. Impossible to kill.

Now imagine those mobile death fortresses NOT topping the battle report. Assisted kills don't get you any glory, after all. No one will know how many kills those tanks and drop ships got except for the pilots themselves, and as long as they aren't ****-ing stupid enough to take screen caps and brag about it, no one will be bothered by them.

Crome tanks were mobile death fortresses. Even with several people firing on them they would rep and run. Impossible to kill.

XD so you want them to be secretly good? This way no one can call for a nerf.

I would rather them be balanced, not OP. I don't care if they go they top the charts, but I do care if a tank is killing me and my squad over and over again and our AV isn't making a dent into it.

But that's the thing though, Cody. You might not care if vehicles top the charts, but you're probably good at this game. I am certain that the vast majority of complainers are obsessed with the chart. Performance and results. No matter how hard a tanker had to work in order to earn his kills, they'll still believe that it was the vehicle doing all the work and use that justify their support for under-performing vehicles. All that matters to these guys is the battle report.

So chromosome era vehicles may not be the best example to go by if they really were as unbalanced as you believe. Okay, well vehicles are getting a re-work, with mods getting gradually reintroduced. The devs will know straightaway how strong is too strong with their current approach. In the meanwhile, assist kills for pilots will silence a lot of the anger.

Tankers and Pilots just want to have fun same as everyone else. Vehicles can't be balanced for damage, but changing the nature of how they're perceived will do a lot of good. Support machines, not solo machines should be that perception. If all they're getting is assist kills, then Infantry will view themselves as doing the majority of the work, and all will be well.

Now imagine those mobile death fortresses NOT topping the battle report. Assisted kills don't get you any glory, after all. No one will know how many kills those tanks and drop ships got except for the pilots themselves, and as long as they aren't ****-ing stupid enough to take screen caps and brag about it, no one will be bothered by them.

Now here me out!

All the screams of "OP" and "Unfair" leveled at tanks and Drop-ships that have gotten them nerfed into their present state, all of them stem from one source. The battle report at the end of the match that had those tankers and pilots going 30-0. It's jealousy plain and simple and it is completely understandable.

The spirit of Dust 514 does not lie in cooperation. Most players really don't give a toss if their team wins or loses a match, as long as they personally have a good Kill/Death ratio. When infantry looked at the battle report and saw that tankers and pilots were consistently getting kill streaks as long as their arms, they flipped out. Again, completely understandable. So they complained. And what followed next was the nerf hammer as our developer friends tried to compensate.

However! No matter how many times they nerf vehicles, it'll never be enough for some people, because we still have some remarkably good pilots still getting a lot of kills. Because of that relative minority, people are under the mistaken impression that vehicles are overpowered, when in fact they are all but unplayable in their current state. What needs to be addressed is that appeasing infantry players won't happen with more gameplay changes (i.e. vehicle nerfs), but rather with a simple change of philosophy that reinforces vehicles as support units.

Since vehicles are supposed to be support units, simply code it so that all the player kills that pilots and tankers get are assisted kills. Boom! Crisis solved. HAVs and DS can be gradually ratcheted up back to their chromosome levels of fun without people being envious of their performance. Pilots will get zero kills, but a lot of WP. Therefore infantry will care far, far less. After all, Kills are the only things that matter to these guys. If Pilots and tanks aren't topping the kill list, then they aren't a threat, and won't complain. And then we can all get back to having fun.

Psychology!

Crome tanks were mobile death fortresses. Even with several people firing on them they would rep and run. Impossible to kill.

It's called another tank. Duh

So rock beats rock?

Are you implying that tanks should be useless against each other?

No, but shouldn't they have something else that can beat them?

There should be something else to chase them away.

But that's the thing though, Cody. You might not care if vehicles top the charts, but you're probably good at this game. I am certain that the vast majority of complainers are obsessed with the chart. Performance and results. No matter how hard a tanker had to work in order to earn his kills, they'll still believe that it was the vehicle doing all the work and use that justify their support for under-performing vehicles. All that matters to these guys is the battle report.

So chromosome era vehicles may not be the best example to go by if they really were as unbalanced as you believe. Okay, well vehicles are getting a re-work, with mods getting gradually reintroduced. The devs will know straightaway how strong is too strong with their current approach. In the meanwhile, assist kills for pilots will silence a lot of the anger.

Tankers and Pilots just want to have fun same as everyone else. Vehicles can't be balanced for damage, but changing the nature of how they're perceived will do a lot of good. Support machines, not solo machines should be that perception. If all they're getting is assist kills, then Infantry will view themselves as doing the majority of the work, and all will be well.

So unstoppable...unless you run a tank...

Why should the game be balanced for meaningless pub matches, instead of faction warfare and planetary conquest, the two modes which actually affect EVE in some small way?

Crome tanks were mobile death fortresses. Even with several people firing on them they would rep and run. Impossible to kill.

So unstoppable...unless you run a tank...

The counter to a tank should be either another tank or a coordinated AV strike.

The idea of having a single infantry unit having the same firepower as another tank (as it is right now with proto AV) is ridiculous. To bring down a tank should either take another tank with similar skill, or a coordinated attack from several AV infantry units.

What, you can't solo a tank? Well then the tank is perfectly fine and is working as it should. Try using teamwork next time before crying OP. (This is not aimed at anyone, just a general statement of what's going on with most infantry and their cries for nerfs)

wtf ur joking right in chromosome tanks were still up ur av clearly sucked...in chromosome in order for me to solo a tank it involved a actual fight with chasing and running. athough not equal as it should have taken 3 of me to kill 1 tank with 3 users not 1.

i order to insta pop said tank it required coordination and teamwork.

proto tanks ..with 3 proto pilots should require at least 2 proto dedicated avers to kill..i would even say 3 if they're skill in av amounts only to the gear they run.

I dream of a time when it would take 3 proto AV to kill me... My point was simply that it's too easy to solo tanks now, something which should be near impossible to do unless if the tanker is bad or the fit is bad (or both).

I apologize for misreading you in any way. And I'm not asking for tanks to be unkillable either.

So I guess that means tanks won't be allowed in pubs?

Then everything PRO shouldn't be allowed in pubs.

Crome tanks were mobile death fortresses. Even with several people firing on them they would rep and run. Impossible to kill.

nobody is crying, just pointing out that 3 people with proto AV shouldn't just "chase away" tanks, it should kill them.

I never said I wanted to solo tanks, just that they shouldn't be UN-killable.

I've been running proto AV since Crome because tanks were so nasty. I and my team mates would switch to AV and try to kill a Gunnlogi and he would rep and run.

I already said I think current tanks need a buff, but they shouldn't be super tanks that can only be brough down by other tanks.

Sounds like you were still doing it wrong.

That's textbook good tanking- knowing when to fight and when to retreat.

You think its jealousy so you think the leader board matters. NO people don't like dyeing with no opportunity to repay the favor.

If its not the Tank is the Logisuit that spam Uplinks only - never enters combat - solos with supply depot runs - Switches to starter suits and get 0/30 top of the charts. Point is its not jealously its game balance. Your the one QQ because your Tank is not OP anymore.

Hey now! Not all infantry care only about KDR their are us logibros, a logibro likely has sucky KDR (otherwise they are probably a guy using a logi suit as an assault suit)

nobody is crying, just pointing out that 3 people with proto AV shouldn't just "chase away" tanks, it should kill them.

I never said I wanted to solo tanks, just that they shouldn't be UN-killable.

I heard 5 tankers rage quit the army because they got soloed by a single anti tank missile

speaking of QQ why do the tankers think it should take an army of proto fitted infantry to take out their shinny tanks?

personally I think if tanks want more HP's, they should also be able to be disabled. blow the tracks and you need to get out and repair it......same thing with the turrets engine guns ect. battle damage as such. you get unlucky and your stuck, you catch fire lose HP and could randomly blow up. ( think world of tanks)

if anyone think that's not a fair way to buff tank HP then their just after being hugely OP again. its realistic how battle damage will affect the vehicle. beyond that it will encourage you to have a full tank for not just extra fire support but repairing modules too. ontop of that the fear of being tracked or having your engine broke will encourage team play and not solo rampages.

although it realistic that tanks can be taken out by 1 man and 1 missile I know it would cause far to much QQ and rage posts. to me this sounds like a fair way to appease the tankers on their wish for more strength, yet at the same time it would balance the tank and even let new players have the potential to make a big impact on a tank kill. yes a tank can cost a lot......but feck me its not meant to be anything approaching GOD mode.

technically every time we bring up teamwork on your side of the argument, you always cry OP and un-killable which is because you don't have enough intelligence or are too lazy to work with a few others to get something done, but you do it just fine when hacking an objective.

My only problem with your teamwork argument is that why should 1 guy who happened to skill into tanks not require any teamwork to function and kill people, but 1 guy who happened to spec into AV (weapons specifically designed to take out vehicles) should need to outnumber the 1 guy in a tank. And don't bring up the isk investment, isk is easy to get no matter what you run if you have half a brain.

technically every time we bring up teamwork on your side of the argument, you always cry OP and un-killable which is because you don't have enough intelligence or are too lazy to work with a few others to get something done, but you do it just fine when hacking an objective.

heavies sometimes require an entire squad to take down and your fine with that "because they are infantry and we only like infantry players"

COD is that way: ===============>

We've got to be willing to accept some kind of penalty for calling in a tank. What should it be?

well, my vehicle is much much larger than a dropsuit, the way your making it sound is as if your trying to make my vehicle into a regular dropsuit..

why should a single little dropsuit be able to kill a giant machine controlled by another player?


heavies sometimes require an entire squad to take down and your fine with that "because they are infantry and we only like infantry players"

COD is that way: ===============>

Okay. The overwhelming consensus is "pass." Alrighty, it was just an idea.

I am seriously curious though as to what tankers (since tankers are the only vehicle users in this thread responding to it, it seems), what should a tanker be willing to give up? There has to be a tradeoff, and the isk investment as painful as it is, doesn't appear to be it. The game economy is exploitable through infantry grinding, so money apparently has no value. I just hit 100 million isk. It wasn't hard at all, just boring.

So tankers don't want to be regulated to support. At all. It's everything or nothing? That's not conducive to negotiation. We've got to be willing to accept some kind of penalty for calling in a tank. What should it be?

I have seen you say multiple times that your tank is your suit, so is it your suit or not? If it is then it needs to be balanced against a 1v1 scenario where 1 guy who is setup to take out vehicles (av specialist) should have just as much of a chance at taking you down as you do with your super big fatty suit. I actually like vehicles being quite strong when fielded correctly and used intelligently, which I have seen you do on multiple occasions. However what most takers, including you, want is back to chrome days where a tanker never had to fear from AV at all. If you remember twords the end of chrome every match boiled down to which side had more tanks. By that logic eventually you will have whole teams full of tanks. With only one or 2 guys getting out foolishly to hack points. So while you say cod is -----> that way I say World of tanks is <----that way. We need to find a balance, and as long as you want a tank to be piloted by 1 guy, the tank will always be weak, due to the fact that it will be better to pull 2 tanks than to have a tank with a main turret gunner/driver and a secondary turret gunner. They ran into this problem in PS2 where tanks were so powerful you would see whole platoons of 1/2 tanks with heat rounds because they had no fear of infantry and could control any base or structure outside of a biolab. Now I know you think there is no sense of loss in planetside or planetside 2, but the timers and resource restrictions actually can bite you in the ass pretty badly if you drive stupidly. After they gave infantry stronger AV you now have platoons that run a combined arms style, infantry protect the tanks from AV, tanks protect infantry from other tanks and large infantry pushes that do not carry AV. Along with Air support to take out opposing tank groups, and run overwatch. The tanks are still powerful but alone without infantry support are rather easy to pick off. This is what I want tanks in Dust to be, strong but still needing support, you need a group of people to keep AV off you so that you can protect them from Anti infantry setups.

Right now tanks are both anti Infantry and anti tank, with only needing 1 person to make a tank fully effective, why not field 4 or 5 tanks instead of 1 tank and infantry? You need to balance tanks as a combined arms tool, not tanks should automatically be better than infantry just because you spent more isk than someone else.

better than infantry just because you spent more isk than someone else

Okay. The overwhelming consensus is "pass." Alrighty, it was just an idea.

I am seriously curious though as to what tankers (since tankers are the only vehicle users in this thread responding to it, it seems), what should a tanker be willing to give up? There has to be a tradeoff, and the isk investment as painful as it is, doesn't appear to be it. The game economy is exploitable through infantry grinding, so money apparently has no value. I just hit 100 million isk. It wasn't hard at all, just boring.

So tankers don't want to be regulated to support. At all. It's everything or nothing? That's not conducive to negotiation. We've got to be willing to accept some kind of penalty for calling in a tank. What should it be?

So we give up something, while you give up nothing. Fine.

Let's do it like this.

If we can't kill infantry, then we're killing other vehicles. In that case, all forms of AV should be removed at all levels.

Speaker, I've got five million SP invested in vehicles so far. That's where all my points are with this character. I'm not an infantry guy, and I'm certainly not an AV player. What I am, is a lateral thinker.

Yeesh, you're grouchy today.

Although I still think AV players should get more points for vehicle kills and shooting vehicles.

this game is NOT based on earth, get that through your think ******* head.

New Eden is on the other side of the universe and has been separated entirely from earthly influences since the wormhole collapsed over 20000 years ago.

Now here me out!

All the screams of "OP" and "Unfair" leveled at tanks and Drop-ships that have gotten them nerfed into their present state, all of them stem from one source. The battle report at the end of the match that had those tankers and pilots going 30-0. It's jealousy plain and simple and it is completely understandable.

The spirit of Dust 514 does not lie in cooperation. Most players really don't give a toss if their team wins or loses a match, as long as they personally have a good Kill/Death ratio. When infantry looked at the battle report and saw that tankers and pilots were consistently getting kill streaks as long as their arms, they flipped out. Again, completely understandable. So they complained. And what followed next was the nerf hammer as our developer friends tried to compensate.

However! No matter how many times they nerf vehicles, it'll never be enough for some people, because we still have some remarkably good pilots still getting a lot of kills. Because of that relative minority, people are under the mistaken impression that vehicles are overpowered, when in fact they are all but unplayable in their current state. What needs to be addressed is that appeasing infantry players won't happen with more gameplay changes (i.e. vehicle nerfs), but rather with a simple change of philosophy that reinforces vehicles as support units.

Since vehicles are supposed to be support units, simply code it so that all the player kills that pilots and tankers get are assisted kills. Boom! Crisis solved. HAVs and DS can be gradually ratcheted up back to their chromosome levels of fun without people being envious of their performance. Pilots will get zero kills, but a lot of WP. Therefore infantry will care far, far less. After all, Kills are the only things that matter to these guys. If Pilots and tanks aren't topping the kill list, then they aren't a threat, and won't complain. And then we can all get back to having fun.

Psychology!

THE **** ARE YOU ON.

You mean to say my taking down turrets, Tanks, LAV's, covering your ass on hack points, infantry kills in key areas, etc, etc aren't team player attributes?

Wow **** you, keep this game and infnatrymans game, ruin all vehicle combat options, enjoy playing AR 514 with that logic.

Now here me out!

All the screams of "OP" and "Unfair" leveled at tanks and Drop-ships that have gotten them nerfed into their present state, all of them stem from one source. The battle report at the end of the match that had those tankers and pilots going 30-0. It's jealousy plain and simple and it is completely understandable.

The spirit of Dust 514 does not lie in cooperation. Most players really don't give a toss if their team wins or loses a match, as long as they personally have a good Kill/Death ratio. When infantry looked at the battle report and saw that tankers and pilots were consistently getting kill streaks as long as their arms, they flipped out. Again, completely understandable. So they complained. And what followed next was the nerf hammer as our developer friends tried to compensate.

However! No matter how many times they nerf vehicles, it'll never be enough for some people, because we still have some remarkably good pilots still getting a lot of kills. Because of that relative minority, people are under the mistaken impression that vehicles are overpowered, when in fact they are all but unplayable in their current state. What needs to be addressed is that appeasing infantry players won't happen with more gameplay changes (i.e. vehicle nerfs), but rather with a simple change of philosophy that reinforces vehicles as support units.

Since vehicles are supposed to be support units, simply code it so that all the player kills that pilots and tankers get are assisted kills. Boom! Crisis solved. HAVs and DS can be gradually ratcheted up back to their chromosome levels of fun without people being envious of their performance. Pilots will get zero kills, but a lot of WP. Therefore infantry will care far, far less. After all, Kills are the only things that matter to these guys. If Pilots and tanks aren't topping the kill list, then they aren't a threat, and won't complain. And then we can all get back to having fun.

Psychology!