The Saggy and Surya shouldn't be brought back, not now that we have active hardeners. You could very well push the thing's resistance into 99% and then some. The old Sag and Sur are far too powerful, birthed from the no-longer-CCP BLAM's feverish notion that vehicles do not need infantry support and that they are the endgame. If they were to bring them back, they would need to alter them heavily. Their attack bonus is obviously now taken by the Enforcer, and having too much defensive power without something lost, namely speed, would make them as uncrackable as they used to be. I'm sure they would eventually still die, put a moron at the helm and a Jovian Mothership is toast, but the old Marauders have no place in the current DUST514.

I do, however, believe that tankers and vehicle users in general need something. Not anything, but something. Hell, we all need something after 1.4.2

Dropships

The Saggy and Surya shouldn't be brought back, not now that we have active hardeners. You could very well push the thing's resistance into 99% and then some. The old Sag and Sur are far too powerful, birthed from the no-longer-CCP BLAM's feverish notion that vehicles do not need infantry support and that they are the endgame. If they were to bring them back, they would need to alter them heavily. Their attack bonus is obviously now taken by the Enforcer, and having too much defensive power without something lost, namely speed, would make them as uncrackable as they used to be. I'm sure they would eventually still die, put a moron at the helm and a Jovian Mothership is toast, but the old Marauders have no place in the current DUST514.

I do, however, believe that tankers and vehicle users in general need something. Not anything, but something. Hell, we all need something after 1.4.2

You don't know anything it seems.

I hope people don't read your post and take it to other threads.

But that would mean that the best counter to a Sagaris, is a Surya with a NOS module. What's the problem with that? Do you have any idea how fast us tank pilots would skill into it?

I know enough you one-sided tank pundit. The Sag and Sur have far too much EHP. If we were to insert them here unaltered, then they would be leagues better than any other tank on the market. Not better bexause of flawed design choices, or better due to circumstance, but flat out better. They were labeled as Marauders, but most players knew of the Sag and Sur as Prototype Tanks due to how much better they were in every area, and areas where they weren't better they were at the very least on par. Marauders need to have a role to fit in to the new DUST system, and seeing as Enforcers are the fast and hard hitters, the Marauders need to be the slow and tanky ones. The Heavy to the Enforcer's Scout.

If they are entered in as they were, they just wouldn't die. If you're having tank problems, I feel for you. I've been a Logi since Mordu, back when Logi suits were a 16x skill, and I get shafted every few updates because boosters leech my class and because Assaults used the Caldari version as a supersuit. But I've seen what tanks can do. My tanker buddy does 32-0 standard in a Soma. Give him a Surya and you will make an unsinkable abortion of science.

Do you have any idea how fast EVERYONE would skill into it? If the only counter to something is the same thing, we'll have a problem. In fact, as lolzy as it is to abuse the physics to kill it, wouldn't that speak volumes about how broken it is?

All I'm saying is that Marauders need to be slower than Basic tanks and have their offensive bonus stripped. If not, then give the Dropsuits their HP for higher metalevel back when you put the Marauders back. I mean, we got rid of that for reasons too, but if we're just reaching into the past everyone should get something.

I know enough you one-sided tank pundit. The Sag and Sur have far too much EHP. If we were to insert them here unaltered, then they would be leagues better than any other tank on the market. Not better bexause of flawed design choices, or better due to circumstance, but flat out better. They were labeled as Marauders, but most players knew of the Sag and Sur as Prototype Tanks due to how much better they were in every area, and areas where they weren't better they were at the very least on par. Marauders need to have a role to fit in to the new DUST system, and seeing as Enforcers are the fast and hard hitters, the Marauders need to be the slow and tanky ones. The Heavy to the Enforcer's Scout.

If they are entered in as they were, they just wouldn't die. If you're having tank problems, I feel for you. I've been a Logi since Mordu, back when Logi suits were a 16x skill, and I get shafted every few updates because boosters leech my class and because Assaults used the Caldari version as a supersuit. But I've seen what tanks can do. My tanker buddy does 32-0 standard in a Soma. Give him a Surya and you will make an unsinkable abortion of science.

CCP, i know your havng trouble with getting the vehicles rehashed and out for the most undervalued people in the game in accordance to pub stompers. but as a PC vet i need my tankers and i love to see them on the other side. Vehicles dominate how you control an objective.



in order to not make them all rage quit, the answer is simple. bring back the tanks from chromosome that were always good.


Sagarises and Suryas.

not only would the tankers rejoice it would be cool to see these guys back and have the new guys experience getting stomped by the prettiest darn tank you'll ever see.

Don't be that guy CCP. Don't make our precious tankers leave.

/facepalm

k it seems there isnt much point to debating with you as you seem to be angry and not operating on facts.

99% resist? no
There is a mechanic called a stacking penalty for modules to prevent spamming a certain attribute like damage mods.

Marauders being flat out better? no
Marauders as we knew them are no longer in existence. Hell they used to have a flat 50% damage increase to everything. You can say this or that but the fact of the matter is marauders and black-ops tanks do not exist at this point and will not exist in a similar form in the future. Its like arguing about the balancing of remotes from back in E3 when you could throw them like grenades. Yeah, they weren't balanced but they also do not exist in that form anymore.

In EVE marauders gain offensive power in exchange for greatly reduced survivability. It is more of a sidegrade than a higher tier ship and are not used in PVP since they are basically purpose built for PVE missions and ratting. They are also very expensive and are actually worth their price tags.

Enforcers are a red-headed stepchild that never had a use, much like the black-ops tanks.

Other than that, im glad you feel that your friend is a good driver. That's nice.

Is there anything else you would like me to educate you on or are you just going to be angry and insult me some more?

3 hours then ill let you know how my sagaris is pics if you want

Honestly, how hard is it to do this?
Or change the PG skill back?

Those aren't special delicate balance tweaks that require being pushed back three patches to make.

Yeah you won't be seeing Marauders as they were back in Chromosome. Why did you think they got taken out? Because they were too awesome? Because CCP hates fun?

No, it's because they were making the game unfun for everyone else.

Savor those memories, because that is all you'll ever have when it comes to HAVs.

Send us pics...
(It's closed beta though? can you send pics?)

I know enough you one-sided tank pundit. The Sag and Sur have far too much EHP. If we were to insert them here unaltered, then they would be leagues better than any other tank on the market. Not better bexause of flawed design choices, or better due to circumstance, but flat out better. They were labeled as Marauders, but most players knew of the Sag and Sur as Prototype Tanks due to how much better they were in every area, and areas where they weren't better they were at the very least on par. Marauders need to have a role to fit in to the new DUST system, and seeing as Enforcers are the fast and hard hitters, the Marauders need to be the slow and tanky ones. The Heavy to the Enforcer's Scout.

If they are entered in as they were, they just wouldn't die. If you're having tank problems, I feel for you. I've been a Logi since Mordu, back when Logi suits were a 16x skill, and I get shafted every few updates because boosters leech my class and because Assaults used the Caldari version as a supersuit. But I've seen what tanks can do. My tanker buddy does 32-0 standard in a Soma. Give him a Surya and you will make an unsinkable abortion of science.

Yeah you won't be seeing Marauders as they were back in Chromosome. Why did you think they got taken out? Because they were too awesome? Because CCP hates fun?

No, it's because they were making the game unfun for everyone else.

Savor those memories, because that is all you'll ever have when it comes to HAVs.

I know enough you one-sided tank pundit. The Sag and Sur have far too much EHP. If we were to insert them here unaltered, then they would be leagues better than any other tank on the market. Not better bexause of flawed design choices, or better due to circumstance, but flat out better. They were labeled as Marauders, but most players knew of the Sag and Sur as Prototype Tanks due to how much better they were in every area, and areas where they weren't better they were at the very least on par. Marauders need to have a role to fit in to the new DUST system, and seeing as Enforcers are the fast and hard hitters, the Marauders need to be the slow and tanky ones. The Heavy to the Enforcer's Scout.

If they are entered in as they were, they just wouldn't die. If you're having tank problems, I feel for you. I've been a Logi since Mordu, back when Logi suits were a 16x skill, and I get shafted every few updates because boosters leech my class and because Assaults used the Caldari version as a supersuit. But I've seen what tanks can do. My tanker buddy does 32-0 standard in a Soma. Give him a Surya and you will make an unsinkable abortion of science.

/facepalm

k it seems there isnt much point to debating with you as you seem to be angry and not operating on facts.

99% resist? no
There is a mechanic called a stacking penalty for modules to prevent spamming a certain attribute like damage mods.

Marauders being flat out better? no
Marauders as we knew them are no longer in existence. Hell they used to have a flat 50% damage increase to everything. You can say this or that but the fact of the matter is marauders and black-ops tanks do not exist at this point and will not exist in a similar form in the future. Its like arguing about the balancing of remotes from back in E3 when you could throw them like grenades. Yeah, they weren't balanced but they also do not exist in that form anymore.

In EVE marauders gain offensive power in exchange for greatly reduced survivability. It is more of a sidegrade than a higher tier ship and are not used in PVP since they are basically purpose built for PVE missions and ratting. They are also very expensive and are actually worth their price tags.

Enforcers are a red-headed stepchild that never had a use, much like the black-ops tanks.

Other than that, im glad you feel that your friend is a good driver. That's nice.

Is there anything else you would like me to educate you on or are you just going to be angry and insult me some more?

[I know that there are resistance stacking penalties, but in comparison to a standard tank it would be as if a standard had severe resistances. 99% has a nice ring to it, and no one on the forums reacts to anything but gross exaggeration. That said, VERY high resistances are very possible, less possible in EVE where my corpie has a 95%~ omnitanked Rohk, but still quite high. A single active shield hardener boosts resistances by 30%. The skill behind it does not alter that, but the shield skill itself adds a 10% bonus. This leads to a 40% base bonus. If the stacking penalties are the same as EVE, the first module goes down to 50%. This means that two active can get 55%. Add a third at a 35% reduction, then you have 65.5%, only 10.5% by this point and kind of a wasted slot. Marauders had about twice the HP level of their basic brethren. This all adds up to an immensely high amount of EHP for no losses besides cost. They also had more slots, but I haven't got solid numbers there.

A Marauder needs to be a sidegrade, but there is no room for a MARAUDER anymore. Enforcers already take up the higher damage for lower survivability role. If we were to put them back in then the only sidegrade left would be more defense for less speed, which would not be a Marauder in EVE terms. If we just bring back the old Marauders, which WERE flat out better, then we wouldn't be able to counter them except with a second Marauder, which the first would shoot out of the sky. The OP didn't ask for new tanks, or a new kind of tank, or even a new set of racial tanks. He specifically asked for the Marauders from Chromosome. That, as I stated and you ignored, is a bad idea. As I stated, tanks do need something. Maybe a tankier kind of tank, maybe a slight numbers tweak, but not bringing back the Marauder class HAVs out of whatever CCP did to remove them. Could have been as simple as flipping them off the market when they did the equipment liquidizing.

I also did not insult you. You are a one-sided tank pundit. You only see things from the HAV point of view, you like driving HAVs, and you are very vocal about your love of HAVs. Not a word of that was false. You however did insult me by making a blanket statement detracting my intelligence.