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CCP dont make the tankers leave in 1.6, bring back Sagaris and Suryas

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Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2007	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:42:00 - [61] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: If either of you read all of my posts in this thread, all of which were made before you made your posts, you would look a little less like morons right now. I wouldn't throw around the word moron so much after calling lurch a one sided tank pundit, hes one of the more balanced tankers that bother the talk on these subjects, to the point he probably puts more holes in the buff tanks crowd than a shrill doucheburger like you could ever hope to manage. Wait......what? I mean....you DO see that I'm in STB right? I must be a lot higher than I thought...
johnhonorcrest2 RestlessSpirits 1	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:06:00 - [62] - Quote Morathi III wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Dropships They are good in pc my dropships do just fine in pubs lol
johnhonorcrest2 RestlessSpirits 1	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:10:00 - [63] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The Saggy and Surya shouldn't be brought back, not now that we have active hardeners. You could very well push the thing's resistance into 99% and then some. The old Sag and Sur are far too powerful, birthed from the no-longer-CCP BLAM's feverish notion that vehicles do not need infantry support and that they are the endgame. If they were to bring them back, they would need to alter them heavily. Their attack bonus is obviously now taken by the Enforcer, and having too much defensive power without something lost, namely speed, would make them as uncrackable as they used to be. I'm sure they would eventually still die, put a moron at the helm and a Jovian Mothership is toast, but the old Marauders have no place in the current DUST514. I do, however, believe that tankers and vehicle users in general need something. Not anything, but something. Hell, we all need something after 1.4.2 You don't know anything it seems. I hope people don't read your post and take it to other threads. I know enough you one-sided tank pundit. The Sag and Sur have far too much EHP. If we were to insert them here unaltered, then they would be leagues better than any other tank on the market. Not better bexause of flawed design choices, or better due to circumstance, but flat out better. They were labeled as Marauders, but most players knew of the Sag and Sur as Prototype Tanks due to how much better they were in every area, and areas where they weren't better they were at the very least on par. Marauders need to have a role to fit in to the new DUST system, and seeing as Enforcers are the fast and hard hitters, the Marauders need to be the slow and tanky ones. The Heavy to the Enforcer's Scout. If they are entered in as they were, they just wouldn't die. If you're having tank problems, I feel for you. I've been a Logi since Mordu, back when Logi suits were a 16x skill, and I get shafted every few updates because boosters leech my class and because Assaults used the Caldari version as a supersuit. But I've seen what tanks can do. My tanker buddy does 32-0 standard in a Soma. Give him a Surya and you will make an unsinkable abortion of science. and why shouldnt tankers have proto tanks? why is it all about infintry? ive seen guys running proto suits get the ssame amount of kills as tanks and not die yet when a tank does it its op?
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1494	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:22:00 - [64] - Quote Void Echo wrote: if they do bring them back like they said they would, they would probably be worse than the enforcers which would be nearly impossible.... then we would have to redo our class system to make room for the ultra bad militia tanks Pretty much. What they need is to patch tanks with a Slight HP buff (say 25%) and More PG to actually make good use of the few slots given. Doing this might hold tankers until CCP releases the so much anticipated vehicle update.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 946	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:34:00 - [65] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The Saggy and Surya shouldn't be brought back, not now that we have active hardeners. You could very well push the thing's resistance into 99% and then some. The old Sag and Sur are far too powerful, birthed from the no-longer-CCP BLAM's feverish notion that vehicles do not need infantry support and that they are the endgame. If they were to bring them back, they would need to alter them heavily. Their attack bonus is obviously now taken by the Enforcer, and having too much defensive power without something lost, namely speed, would make them as uncrackable as they used to be. I'm sure they would eventually still die, put a moron at the helm and a Jovian Mothership is toast, but the old Marauders have no place in the current DUST514. I do, however, believe that tankers and vehicle users in general need something. Not anything, but something. Hell, we all need something after 1.4.2 But that would mean that the best counter to a Sagaris, is a Surya with a NOS module. What's the problem with that? Do you have any idea how fast us tank pilots would skill into it? Do you have any idea how fast EVERYONE would skill into it? If the only counter to something is the same thing, we'll have a problem. In fact, as lolzy as it is to abuse the physics to kill it, wouldn't that speak volumes about how broken it is? All I'm saying is that Marauders need to be slower than Basic tanks and have their offensive bonus stripped. If not, then give the Dropsuits their HP for higher metalevel back when you put the Marauders back. I mean, we got rid of that for reasons too, but if we're just reaching into the past everyone should get something. LOL You're going to skill into tanks? Infantry will skill into tanks? Not gonna happen. Who wants to lose out on 2.5mil ISK per death?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 946	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:53:00 - [66] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The Saggy and Surya shouldn't be brought back, not now that we have active hardeners. You could very well push the thing's resistance into 99% and then some. The old Sag and Sur are far too powerful, birthed from the no-longer-CCP BLAM's feverish notion that vehicles do not need infantry support and that they are the endgame. If they were to bring them back, they would need to alter them heavily. Their attack bonus is obviously now taken by the Enforcer, and having too much defensive power without something lost, namely speed, would make them as uncrackable as they used to be. I'm sure they would eventually still die, put a moron at the helm and a Jovian Mothership is toast, but the old Marauders have no place in the current DUST514. I do, however, believe that tankers and vehicle users in general need something. Not anything, but something. Hell, we all need something after 1.4.2 You don't know anything it seems. I hope people don't read your post and take it to other threads. I know enough you one-sided tank pundit. The Sag and Sur have far too much EHP. If we were to insert them here unaltered, then they would be leagues better than any other tank on the market. Not better bexause of flawed design choices, or better due to circumstance, but flat out better. They were labeled as Marauders, but most players knew of the Sag and Sur as Prototype Tanks due to how much better they were in every area, and areas where they weren't better they were at the very least on par. Marauders need to have a role to fit in to the new DUST system, and seeing as Enforcers are the fast and hard hitters, the Marauders need to be the slow and tanky ones. The Heavy to the Enforcer's Scout. If they are entered in as they were, they just wouldn't die. If you're having tank problems, I feel for you. I've been a Logi since Mordu, back when Logi suits were a 16x skill, and I get shafted every few updates because boosters leech my class and because Assaults used the Caldari version as a supersuit. But I've seen what tanks can do. My tanker buddy does 32-0 standard in a Soma. Give him a Surya and you will make an unsinkable abortion of science. yes they would get completely annihilated by the amount of Proto AV there is. want me to do the math for you? i remember my fit at the time Do it anyway, I only gamed with one guy that had both of those hulls. I at least want to see it.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 946	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:57:00 - [67] - Quote DJINN Rampage wrote: Exmaple Core wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I know that there are resistance stacking penalties, but in comparison to a standard tank it would be as if a standard had severe resistances. 99% has a nice ring to it, and no one on the forums reacts to anything but gross exaggeration. That said, VERY high resistances are very possible, less possible in EVE where my corpie has a 95%~ omnitanked Rohk, but still quite high. A single active shield hardener boosts resistances by 30%. The skill behind it does not alter that, but the shield skill itself adds a 10% bonus. This leads to a 40% base bonus. If the stacking penalties are the same as EVE, the first module goes down to 50%. This means that two active can get 55%. Add a third at a 35% reduction, then you have 65.5%, only 10.5% by this point and kind of a wasted slot. Marauders had about twice the HP level of their basic brethren. This all adds up to an immensely high amount of EHP for no losses besides cost. They also had more slots, but I haven't got solid numbers there. A Marauder needs to be a sidegrade, but there is no room for a MARAUDER anymore. Enforcers already take up the higher damage for lower survivability role. If we were to put them back in then the only sidegrade left would be more defense for less speed, which would not be a Marauder in EVE terms. If we just bring back the old Marauders, which WERE flat out better, then we wouldn't be able to counter them except with a second Marauder, which the first would shoot out of the sky. The OP didn't ask for new tanks, or a new kind of tank, or even a new set of racial tanks. He specifically asked for the Marauders from Chromosome. That, as I stated and you ignored, is a bad idea. As I stated, tanks do need something. Maybe a tankier kind of tank, maybe a slight numbers tweak, but not bringing back the Marauder class HAVs out of whatever CCP did to remove them. Could have been as simple as flipping them off the market when they did the equipment liquidizing. I also did not insult you. You are a one-sided tank pundit. You only see things from the HAV point of view, you like driving HAVs, and you are very vocal about your love of HAVs. Not a word of that was false. You however did insult me by making a blanket statement detracting my intelligence. the stacking penaltys do not work out like they do in Eve, your calculations are wrong. With the resistance skill maxed(10%) and the 3 proto passive sheild resistors (15%) each my total shield resist is 39.47%. Yes, i could remove one of those (then at 32.27%) for an active hardner, but they last for 10 seconds and cool for 30. it is not worth the endevor at all. With how much damage proto AV did and does and sheild tanks repping so little the sagaris required 2 ppl with forges to destroy effectively. And it was very effective, but no one in chrome had proto AV or worked together. it was glorious i know that A) most of the code for the tanks are still in the game as there are some people whoo still have sagarises and suryas in their inventory B) the effectiveness of the tanks themselves will only be slightly more considering the amount of AV on the field in any given battle. C) i remember when i first came onto dust and these tanks literally made you WANT to be a tanker. they were so big and cool looking and you were literally scared to see one. D)It would be good for the game to have these back even if it's just for a SHORT WHILE AS A BAND-AID FOR TANKERS. that is all im suggesting. throw them a bone. they deserve it. They've been waiting patienly all build running maddys. Sag and Surya were taken out of the game. Nobody has them in their inventory. If they did, they'd take them out during a redline stomp. I haven't seen them since Chromosome.
DJINN Rampage Ancient Exiles 283	Posted - 2013.10.02 05:00:00 - [68] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DJINN Rampage wrote: Exmaple Core wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I know that there are resistance stacking penalties, but in comparison to a standard tank it would be as if a standard had severe resistances. 99% has a nice ring to it, and no one on the forums reacts to anything but gross exaggeration. That said, VERY high resistances are very possible, less possible in EVE where my corpie has a 95%~ omnitanked Rohk, but still quite high. A single active shield hardener boosts resistances by 30%. The skill behind it does not alter that, but the shield skill itself adds a 10% bonus. This leads to a 40% base bonus. If the stacking penalties are the same as EVE, the first module goes down to 50%. This means that two active can get 55%. Add a third at a 35% reduction, then you have 65.5%, only 10.5% by this point and kind of a wasted slot. Marauders had about twice the HP level of their basic brethren. This all adds up to an immensely high amount of EHP for no losses besides cost. They also had more slots, but I haven't got solid numbers there. A Marauder needs to be a sidegrade, but there is no room for a MARAUDER anymore. Enforcers already take up the higher damage for lower survivability role. If we were to put them back in then the only sidegrade left would be more defense for less speed, which would not be a Marauder in EVE terms. If we just bring back the old Marauders, which WERE flat out better, then we wouldn't be able to counter them except with a second Marauder, which the first would shoot out of the sky. The OP didn't ask for new tanks, or a new kind of tank, or even a new set of racial tanks. He specifically asked for the Marauders from Chromosome. That, as I stated and you ignored, is a bad idea. As I stated, tanks do need something. Maybe a tankier kind of tank, maybe a slight numbers tweak, but not bringing back the Marauder class HAVs out of whatever CCP did to remove them. Could have been as simple as flipping them off the market when they did the equipment liquidizing. I also did not insult you. You are a one-sided tank pundit. You only see things from the HAV point of view, you like driving HAVs, and you are very vocal about your love of HAVs. Not a word of that was false. You however did insult me by making a blanket statement detracting my intelligence. the stacking penaltys do not work out like they do in Eve, your calculations are wrong. With the resistance skill maxed(10%) and the 3 proto passive sheild resistors (15%) each my total shield resist is 39.47%. Yes, i could remove one of those (then at 32.27%) for an active hardner, but they last for 10 seconds and cool for 30. it is not worth the endevor at all. With how much damage proto AV did and does and sheild tanks repping so little the sagaris required 2 ppl with forges to destroy effectively. And it was very effective, but no one in chrome had proto AV or worked together. it was glorious i know that A) most of the code for the tanks are still in the game as there are some people whoo still have sagarises and suryas in their inventory B) the effectiveness of the tanks themselves will only be slightly more considering the amount of AV on the field in any given battle. C) i remember when i first came onto dust and these tanks literally made you WANT to be a tanker. they were so big and cool looking and you were literally scared to see one. D)It would be good for the game to have these back even if it's just for a SHORT WHILE AS A BAND-AID FOR TANKERS. that is all im suggesting. throw them a bone. they deserve it. They've been waiting patienly all build running maddys. Sag and Surya were taken out of the game. Nobody has them in their inventory. If they did, they'd take them out during a redline stomp. I haven't seen them since Chromosome. like i said, MOST of the code is in their, however to keep people from using them (like Radar) they have made it so it cannot be fitted.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 946	Posted - 2013.10.02 05:05:00 - [69] - Quote DJINN Rampage wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: DJINN Rampage wrote: Exmaple Core wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I know that there are resistance stacking penalties, but in comparison to a standard tank it would be as if a standard had severe resistances. 99% has a nice ring to it, and no one on the forums reacts to anything but gross exaggeration. That said, VERY high resistances are very possible, less possible in EVE where my corpie has a 95%~ omnitanked Rohk, but still quite high. A single active shield hardener boosts resistances by 30%. The skill behind it does not alter that, but the shield skill itself adds a 10% bonus. This leads to a 40% base bonus. If the stacking penalties are the same as EVE, the first module goes down to 50%. This means that two active can get 55%. Add a third at a 35% reduction, then you have 65.5%, only 10.5% by this point and kind of a wasted slot. Marauders had about twice the HP level of their basic brethren. This all adds up to an immensely high amount of EHP for no losses besides cost. They also had more slots, but I haven't got solid numbers there. A Marauder needs to be a sidegrade, but there is no room for a MARAUDER anymore. Enforcers already take up the higher damage for lower survivability role. If we were to put them back in then the only sidegrade left would be more defense for less speed, which would not be a Marauder in EVE terms. If we just bring back the old Marauders, which WERE flat out better, then we wouldn't be able to counter them except with a second Marauder, which the first would shoot out of the sky. The OP didn't ask for new tanks, or a new kind of tank, or even a new set of racial tanks. He specifically asked for the Marauders from Chromosome. That, as I stated and you ignored, is a bad idea. As I stated, tanks do need something. Maybe a tankier kind of tank, maybe a slight numbers tweak, but not bringing back the Marauder class HAVs out of whatever CCP did to remove them. Could have been as simple as flipping them off the market when they did the equipment liquidizing. I also did not insult you. You are a one-sided tank pundit. You only see things from the HAV point of view, you like driving HAVs, and you are very vocal about your love of HAVs. Not a word of that was false. You however did insult me by making a blanket statement detracting my intelligence. the stacking penaltys do not work out like they do in Eve, your calculations are wrong. With the resistance skill maxed(10%) and the 3 proto passive sheild resistors (15%) each my total shield resist is 39.47%. Yes, i could remove one of those (then at 32.27%) for an active hardner, but they last for 10 seconds and cool for 30. it is not worth the endevor at all. With how much damage proto AV did and does and sheild tanks repping so little the sagaris required 2 ppl with forges to destroy effectively. And it was very effective, but no one in chrome had proto AV or worked together. it was glorious i know that A) most of the code for the tanks are still in the game as there are some people whoo still have sagarises and suryas in their inventory B) the effectiveness of the tanks themselves will only be slightly more considering the amount of AV on the field in any given battle. C) i remember when i first came onto dust and these tanks literally made you WANT to be a tanker. they were so big and cool looking and you were literally scared to see one. D)It would be good for the game to have these back even if it's just for a SHORT WHILE AS A BAND-AID FOR TANKERS. that is all im suggesting. throw them a bone. they deserve it. They've been waiting patienly all build running maddys. Sag and Surya were taken out of the game. Nobody has them in their inventory. If they did, they'd take them out during a redline stomp. I haven't seen them since Chromosome. like i said, MOST of the code is in their, however to keep people from using them (like Radar) they have made it so it cannot be fitted. You have access to CCP's code?
DJINN Rampage Ancient Exiles 283	Posted - 2013.10.02 05:10:00 - [70] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DJINN Rampage wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: DJINN Rampage wrote: Exmaple Core wrote: A Marauder needs to be a sidegrade, but there is no room for a MARAUDER anymore. Enforcers already take up the higher damage for lower survivability role. If we were to put them back in then the only sidegrade left would be more defense for less speed, which would not be a Marauder in EVE terms. If we just bring back the old Marauders, which WERE flat out better, then we wouldn't be able to counter them except with a second Marauder, which the first would shoot out of the sky. The OP didn't ask for new tanks, or a new kind of tank, or even a new set of racial tanks. He specifically asked for the Marauders from Chromosome. That, as I stated and you ignored, is a bad idea. As I stated, tanks do need something. Maybe a tankier kind of tank, maybe a slight numbers tweak, but not bringing back the Marauder class HAVs out of whatever CCP did to remove them. Could have been as simple as flipping them off the market when they did the equipment liquidizing. I also did not insult you. You are a one-sided tank pundit. You only see things from the HAV point of view, you like driving HAVs, and you are very vocal about your love of HAVs. Not a word of that was false. You however did insult me by making a blanket statement detracting my intelligence. the stacking penaltys do not work out like they do in Eve, your calculations are wrong. With the resistance skill maxed(10%) and the 3 proto passive sheild resistors (15%) each my total shield resist is 39.47%. Yes, i could remove one of those (then at 32.27%) for an active hardner, but they last for 10 seconds and cool for 30. it is not worth the endevor at all. With how much damage proto AV did and does and sheild tanks repping so little the sagaris required 2 ppl with forges to destroy effectively. And it was very effective, but no one in chrome had proto AV or worked together. it was glorious i know that A) most of the code for the tanks are still in the game as there are some people whoo still have sagarises and suryas in their inventory B) the effectiveness of the tanks themselves will only be slightly more considering the amount of AV on the field in any given battle. C) i remember when i first came onto dust and these tanks literally made you WANT to be a tanker. they were so big and cool looking and you were literally scared to see one. D)It would be good for the game to have these back even if it's just for a SHORT WHILE AS A BAND-AID FOR TANKERS. that is all im suggesting. throw them a bone. they deserve it. They've been waiting patienly all build running maddys. Sag and Surya were taken out of the game. Nobody has them in their inventory. If they did, they'd take them out during a redline stomp. I haven't seen them since Chromosome. like i said, MOST of the code is in their, however to keep people from using them (like Radar) they have made it so it cannot be fitted. You have access to CCP's code?[/quote] no, but being a code monkey myself and also knowling what you are capable to do with the sagaris as far as having one in the inventory and being able to see the model of it, as well as it's information, that the item is still in the game. meaning that the code behind it is there as well. you can also go and try to make a it but anything you put on it is invalid, meaning that they have manipulated it so that you cannot make a fitting ergo you cannot use it. it's called a brain moron, use it.

Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 946	Posted - 2013.10.02 05:24:00 - [71] - Quote DJINN Rampage wrote: no, but being a code monkey myself and also knowling what you are capable to do with the sagaris as far as having one in the inventory and being able to see the model of it, as well as it's information, that the item is still in the game. meaning that the code behind it is there as well. you can also go and try to make a it but anything you put on it is invalid, meaning that they have manipulated it so that you cannot make a fitting ergo you cannot use it. it's called a brain moron, use it. It's called not all of us code, not all of us are cut out for IT, it's called not all of us had the SP spare to skill into either the Sagaris or Surya. I had some as salvage. CCP gave me the ISK worth for those. I don't have them anymore. Therefore, if I don't have them anymore, nobody has them anymore. CCP did this for everybody. You might have had one or 2 of those hulls as salvage, but you don't have them anymore, because CCP removed them from the game. Variations are listed in the information about the hulls.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Beyond Hypothetical Box 178	Posted - 2013.10.02 20:09:00 - [72] - Quote DJINN Rampage wrote: CCP, i know your havng trouble with getting the vehicles rehashed and out for the most undervalued people in the game in accordance to pub stompers. but as a PC vet i need my tankers and i love to see them on the other side. Vehicles dominate how you control an objective. in order to not make them all rage quit, the answer is simple. bring back the tanks from chromosome that were always good. Sagarises and Suryas. not only would the tankers rejoice it would be cool to see these guys back and have the new guys experience getting stomped by the prettiest darn tank you'll ever see. Don't be that guy CCP. Don't make our precious tankers leave. Sagaris and Suryas was pretty much same as STD HAV with 1 extra slot and 300HP more. They were weak. What we really need is sige module on those tanks.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1066	Posted - 2013.10.04 06:06:00 - [73] - Quote johnhonorcrest2 wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The Saggy and Surya shouldn't be brought back, not now that we have active hardeners. You could very well push the thing's resistance into 99% and then some. The old Sag and Sur are far too powerful, birthed from the no-longer-CCP BLAM's feverish notion that vehicles do not need infantry support and that they are the endgame. If they were to bring them back, they would need to alter them heavily. Their attack bonus is obviously now taken by the Enforcer, and having too much defensive power without something lost, namely speed, would make them as uncrackable as they used to be. I'm sure they would eventually still die, put a moron at the helm and a Jovian Mothership is toast, but the old Marauders have no place in the current DUST514. I do, however, believe that tankers and vehicle users in general need something. Not anything, but something. Hell, we all need something after 1.4.2 You don't know anything it seems. I hope people don't read your post and take it to other threads. I know enough you one-sided tank pundit. The Sag and Sur have far too much EHP. If we were to insert them here unaltered, then they would be leagues better than any other tank on the market. Not better bexause of flawed design choices, or better due to circumstance, but flat out better. They were labeled as Marauders, but most players knew of the Sag and Sur as Prototype Tanks due to how much better they were in every area, and areas where they weren't better they were at the very least on par. Marauders need to have a role to fit in to the new DUST system, and seeing as Enforcers are the fast and hard hitters, the Marauders need to be the slow and tanky ones. The Heavy to the Enforcer's Scout. If they are entered in as they were, they just wouldn't die. If you're having tank problems, I feel for you. I've been a Logi since Mordu, back when Logi suits were a 16x skill, and I get shafted every few updates because boosters leech my class and because Assaults used the Caldari version as a supersuit. But I've seen what tanks can do. My tanker buddy does 32-0 standard in a Soma. Give him a Surya and you will make an unsinkable abortion of science. and why shouldnt tankers have proto tanks? why is it all about infintry? ive seen guys running proto suits get the ssame amount of kills as tanks and not die yet when a tank does it its op? When did I say I wanted proto anything? I dislike the tiered method we have in DUST in it's entirety, which you could have inferred when I said vehicles not having a set of tiers was 'progressive.' You just decided to roll out the 'infantry have tiers so should we' argument against me. Furthermore, your comment just proves my point; namely that Marauders were never a sidegrade, and were so powerful as to be mistaken for proto-tier tanks back when 'prototype' meant 'holcrapbuiltinHP'
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1066	Posted - 2013.10.04 06:15:00 - [74] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I know that there are resistance stacking penalties, but in comparison to a standard tank it would be as if a standard had severe resistances. 99% has a nice ring to it, and no one on the forums reacts to anything but gross exaggeration. That said, VERY high resistances are very possible, less possible in EVE where my corpie has a 95%~ omnitanked Rohk, but still quite high. A single active shield hardener boosts resistances by 30%. The skill behind it does not alter that, but the shield skill itself adds a 10% bonus. This leads to a 40% base bonus. If the stacking penalties are the same as EVE, the first module goes down to 50%. This means that two active can get 55%. Add a third at a 35% reduction, then you have 65.5%, only 10.5% by this point and kind of a wasted slot. Marauders had about twice the HP level of their basic brethren. This all adds up to an immensely high amount of EHP for no losses besides cost. They also had more slots, but I haven't got solid numbers there. A Marauder needs to be a sidegrade, but there is no room for a MARAUDER anymore. Enforcers already take up the higher damage for lower survivability role. If we were to put them back in then the only sidegrade left would be more defense for less speed, which would not be a Marauder in EVE terms. If we just bring back the old Marauders, which WERE flat out better, then we wouldn't be able to counter them except with a second Marauder, which the first would shoot out of the sky. The OP didn't ask for new tanks, or a new kind of tank, or even a new set of racial tanks. He specifically asked for the Marauders from Chromosome. That, as I stated and you ignored, is a bad idea. As I stated, tanks do need something. Maybe a tankier kind of tank, maybe a slight numbers tweak, but not bringing back the Marauder class HAVs out of whatever CCP did to remove them. Could have been as simple as flipping them off the market when they did the equipment liquidizing. I also did not insult you. You are a one-sided tank pundit. You only see things from the HAV point of view, you like driving HAVs, and you are very vocal about your love of HAVs. Not a word of that was false. You however did insult me by making a blanket statement detracting my intelligence. the stacking penaltys do not work out like they do in Eve, your calculations are wrong. With the resistance skill maxed(10%) and the 3 proto passive sheild resistors (15%) each my total shield resist is 39.47%. Yes, i could remove one of those (then at 32.27%) for an active hardner, but they last for 10 seconds and cool for 30. it is not worth the endevor at all. With how much damage proto AV did and does and sheild tanks repping so little the sagaris required 2 ppl with forges to destroy effectively. And it was very effective, but no one in chrome had proto AV or worked together. it was glorious I'd like to state that my math IS right. I did it for the ACTIVE hardeners. You did it for the PASSIVE ones, and are also right. In fact, I checked your math and came up a bit short using the EVE stacking penalties of 100%, 50%, 35%, I think DUST has a 40% instead of 35. I hope that active tanking will be more feasible after Wolfman's rehaul, which will hopefully add Capacitors, but until then I stand firm by the notion that flicking on a pair of Active hardeners after being shot with significant damage will give you enough time to flee to safety, especially on the newer maps.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1066	Posted - 2013.10.04 06:24:00 - [75] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Two fatties from a dropship with proto forges could rip a Sagaris a new hole in less than 4 seconds. Drop, nades, shot. You know, before DS's got screwed even more with uprising. Two Tornadoes can get cynoed on top of a Rokh and tear it a new hole. What is your point exactly? In either scenario, it's a three-to-one fight, with the larger, more powerful guy being torn apart by numbers and tactics. If the numbers were even, then the HAV/Rohk could probably easily counter the assault.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1066	Posted - 2013.10.04 06:37:00 - [76] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: If either of you read all of my posts in this thread, all of which were made before you made your posts, you would look a little less like morons right now. I wouldn't throw around the word moron so much after calling lurch a one sided tank pundit, hes one of the more balanced tankers that bother the talk on these subjects, to the point he probably puts more holes in the buff tanks crowd than a shrill doucheburger like you could ever hope to manage. I never called Lurch a moron, I called those who couldn't be arsed to read the entire thread before commenting morons. It is an understandable position, yes? Furthermore, I understand that tanks need a buff, but Lurch is very much a one-sided tank pundit because he is smart. Unlike the King of QQ, he doesn't go into self-parody, and I respect him for that. However, he does understand that if tanks are over-buffed then they'll go right back on the chopping block. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down, and never has that been truer than in this game, as Chromosome tankers or Flaylock spammers can attest. It is a joy to actually argue a point with someone on the forums when most of its occupants are quite content with one sentence fits of rage, but it helps to try and see everyone's agenda. This is New Eden after all, everyone is either smart enough to have plans within plans, or is gloriously, incurably insane. To put it another way, I'm sure most AR users would love a damage buff, but the Lurches of ARs are smart enough to know that if that happened they would get nerfed passed their original damage output. Also, 'doucheburger'... that's a new one, and not a very appetizing thought.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1065	Posted - 2013.10.04 07:25:00 - [77] - Quote Have you even done the math on these new tanks? Running two complex shield hardeners will give you 75% resistance. Then tack on an extra 20% vs dreaded swarm launchers and av grenades and they do 5% damage. Basically, we get back invincibility modules. Calm down and open up excel. Did you do theath for turrets, either? Shield tanks are back to chrome style of glass cannons ruling the day? Do you have any idea what 1885(1.3)+(((1885(1.3*0.87))-1885) comes out to? Armor and shield tanks will be balanced again. Also consider that one heavy booster restores >1900shields instantly. How about 4 missiles with 2 damage mods hitting with > 3000 dmg and hit at 250m. How about that armor tanks have even better hardeners than shields and a constant regent of HP? also, we have 3/2 layout to make room for true proto tanks. Our complex PG upgrades give us 20% more PG and nitrous modules DOUBLE speed (48m/s). Yeah, tanks are better. Do math before you whine, gents.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1065	Posted - 2013.10.04 07:26:00 - [78] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: If either of you read all of my posts in this thread, all of which were made before you made your posts, you would look a little less like morons right now. I wouldn't throw around the word moron so much after calling lurch a one sided tank pundit, hes one of the more balanced tankers that bother the talk on these subjects, to the point he probably puts more holes in the buff tanks crowd than a shrill doucheburger like you could ever hope to manage. I never called Lurch a moron, I called those who couldn't be arsed to read the entire thread before commenting morons. It is an understandable position, yes? Furthermore, I understand that tanks need a buff, but Lurch is very much a one-sided tank pundit because he is smart. Unlike the King of QQ, he doesn't go into self-parody, and I respect him for that. However, he does understand that if tanks are over-buffed then they'll go right back on the chopping block. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down, and never has that been truer than in this game, as Chromosome tankers or Flaylock spammers can attest. It is a joy to actually argue a point with someone on the forums when most of its occupants are quite content with one sentence fits of rage, but it helps to try and see everyone's agenda. This is New Eden after all, everyone is either smart enough to have plans within plans, or is gloriously, incurably insane. To put it another way, I'm sure most AR users would love a damage buff, but the Lurches of ARs are smart enough to know that if that happened they would get nerfed passed their original damage output. Also, 'doucheburger'... that's a new one, and not a very appetizing thought. I am the king of qq. Hear me roar.
DJINN Rampage Ancient Exiles 295	Posted - 2013.10.04 14:13:00 - [79] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DJINN Rampage wrote: no, but being a code monkey myself and also knowling what you are capable to do with the sagaris as far as having one in the inventory and being able to see the model of it, as well as it's information, that the item is still in the game. meaning that the code behind it is there as well. you can also go and try to make a it but anything you put on it is invalid, meaning that they have manipulated it so that you cannot make a fitting ergo you cannot use it. it's called a brain moron, use it. It's called not all of us code, not all of us are cut out for IT, it's called not all of us had the SP spare to skill into either the Sagaris or Surya. I had some as salvage. CCP gave me the ISK worth for those. I don't have them anymore. Therefore, if I don't have them anymore, nobody has them anymore. CCP did this for everybody. You might have had one or 2 of those hulls as salvage, but you don't have them anymore, because CCP removed them from the game. Variations are listed in the information about the hulls. CCP Removed them from the game if you took the respec and liquidated your assets with the update my friend never logged in for the update nor the respec, and so he was able to keep his sagaris. cool right? yes very cool. long story short their still in the game just not usable.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 647	Posted - 2013.10.04 15:23:00 - [80] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Two fatties from a dropship with proto forges could rip a Sagaris a new hole in less than 4 seconds. Drop, nades, shot. You know, before DS's got screwed even more with uprising. Don't forget about the Shoot-Cancel l337 Skill with Forge Guns, it's like having an Ofiicer Assault Forge.



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