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Forge Guns are Broken

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Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 577	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:21:00 - [151] - Quote The problem with the FG is that there is absolutely no shot deviation to it. It's exactly this which makes the FG unbalanced. It's essentially a sniper rifle that you can hip fire and be as accurate as the shooter. Except that it has splash damage, much higher damage per shot, and is effective against vehicles as well. There needs to be shot deviation. Heavy weapons are supposed to be high damage output, low precision weapons. If you can't ADS with it, then perhaps it's not intended for long range. But right now it's extremely reliable at long ranges. And I don't understand why people want to defend this aspect of the FG. It is breaking the game.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2141	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:18:00 - [152] - Quote Every time I read PC vs. Console casual I kept thinking "Planetary Conquest" and that's not exactly casual play. DUST isn't Tetris, it's a FPS and those will be competitive by nature. Folks will do what they can to be as competitive as possible. As far as the reticle making the FG into a SR, it's ALREADY a SR. It tracks straight and true with no deviation which is the main attribute of a SR. You can't remove that quality by slapping a bad reticle on it especially when all it takes is a sharpie to give you a "red dot" sight. A bad reticle is a half assed way to "nerf' a SR that is simply too easy to overcome in a completely undetectable way. Is CCP going to come to your home to make sure you aren't placing a dot on your screen? They couldn't even prevent someone from using a modded controller. What was the solution to that? Change the basic stats on the weapon so it didn't matter. Likewise if the SR like accuracy is an issue alter that, not the reticle.
Funkmaster Whale Daedali Inc. 643	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:27:00 - [153] - Quote Skihids wrote: Every time I read PC vs. Console casual I kept thinking "Planetary Conquest" and that's not exactly casual play. DUST isn't Tetris, it's a FPS and those will be competitive by nature. Folks will do what they can to be as competitive as possible. As far as the reticle making the FG into a SR, it's ALREADY a SR. It tracks straight and true with no deviation which is the main attribute of a SR. You can't remove that quality by slapping a bad reticle on it especially when all it takes is a sharpie to give you a "red dot" sight. A bad reticle is a half assed way to "nerf' a SR that is simply too easy to overcome in a completely undetectable way. Is CCP going to come to your home to make sure you aren't placing a dot on your screen? They couldn't even prevent someone from using a modded controller. What was the solution to that? Change the basic stats on the weapon so it didn't matter. Likewise if the SR like accuracy is an issue alter that, not the reticle. I've been trying to hammer this point the entire thread but everyone has been so caught up about me using a KB/M and artificial crosshair that they are simply refusing to see the actual point of this entire thread. Everyone tried to justify and discredit what I did but in this case it's the results that matter not the means...
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2141	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:39:00 - [154] - Quote The new maps with few tower spots will mitigate the issue somewhat, but the fact remains that it's a OHK SR and any spot that is good for a sniper is going to be good for a sniping FG. The only way I can think of to keep its AV capability while reducing its AI is to reduce the splash radius and add a bit of random deflection (inaccuracy). That will give you some misses against long range AI kills and keep those misses from splashing folks to death. Meanwhile a small bit of deviation won't affect your ability to hit the broad side of a barn that is a tank or dropship. It won't even affect your ability to OHK infantry close to mid range.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 452	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:46:00 - [155] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: (Note: Wouldn't have been possible without my beastly logibro ONE-EYE GOON) In other words: "I had to exploit a high ground, a repair guy who was providing me hives and repairs in order to put out numbers like this" That makes your entire argument invalid. A dedicated logistics player can cause *ANY WEAPON* to perform that well. Way to rumor monger. I hope CCP locks this thread.
DootDoot Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 65	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:03:00 - [156] - Quote The Forge Gun was massively different then it is now... CCP did something in uprising that made the charge trace in the centre of the crosshair every time... The Forge gun before there would always be some deviation in the crosshair's to where the charge would go... allowing you to hit large targets such as vehicles... but miss finer targets 300m away.... For some reason CCP removed that on the forge gun, a fail safe they installed in the first place.... I can only assume they just felt bad for the Heavy class... But this was not the answer
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 47	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:26:00 - [157] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: I do this pretty regularly when I snipe (like I mentioned before, I'm pretty accurate).. Considering that you always have the crosshairs shown on your screen this is not an accomplishment. It reminds me of when I would do RS3 competitively and my clan would all have dots taped to our screen and be in a conference call so that when you were eliminated you could watch other peoples backs via the free 3rd person cam. Honestly, you are a scrub, a well organized scrub but still a scrub. Remove all your mechanical advantages and post a vid of your ground game. I am willing to bet you will not go 60-0.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1013	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:59:00 - [158] - Quote Jastad wrote: Sorry Doc but i disagree with you back in cromo the FG was the same as it's now, the only difference is that there was a skylimit so scrubs (sniper or fg) cant hide on towers. I'm a ground forger and i forge on x=0 or on a high with ladders and easy accessible (not to mention at AR range) Tower snipin ( Thale or FG) need to go to hell Back in Chromo, FG's were much more OP than now, people just don't remember correctly. They had double the current range, slightly less damage, but there were many rooftops where they could not be OB'd once they got up there. And when rendering was actually functioning, you could pick people off from long range like it was nothing.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 285	Posted - 2013.09.20 21:05:00 - [159] - Quote remove the splash make it direct it only,it still kills infantry though
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1757	Posted - 2013.09.20 21:32:00 - [160] - Quote Make forge guns heavy shotguns Have them do 30% at long range but 110% upclose Forgeguns fire unstable charges, lose enegry while traveling over time. Great for shooting landing dropships and tanks around corners. Killing other dropsuits within medium range

Patrick57 Ametat Security Amarr Empire 292	Posted - 2013.09.20 22:22:00 - [161] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: In case you didn't see my earlier post, I was in a Dom match with you, and you were holding the objective pretty tight, so I called in a DS to try and kill you, so I tried to jump out, killing myself in the process, and then the DS landed on you and some other guy :D You don't seem like a "new" forge gunner. Quote. I will keep quoting myself until you respond, Funk
Funkmaster Whale Daedali Inc. 643	Posted - 2013.09.20 22:40:00 - [162] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Patrick57 wrote: In case you didn't see my earlier post, I was in a Dom match with you, and you were holding the objective pretty tight, so I called in a DS to try and kill you, so I tried to jump out, killing myself in the process, and then the DS landed on you and some other guy :D You don't seem like a "new" forge gunner. Quote. I will keep quoting myself until you respond, Funk Acknowledged. You did kill me. I remember. Good suicide run I need to make a list of all the people who say I'm a scrub and add them to the watch list. I'd love to see how such people fare on the battlefield.
SgtDoughnut M.E.R.C. Elite 143	Posted - 2013.09.20 22:52:00 - [163] - Quote All his extra stuff aside he still brings up a very valid point, the FG is too strong against infantry, even more so on elevated positions. I do not understand why people thing AV weaponry should have a huge splash in the first place. All current Anti-armor rounds use a delayed trigger shaped charge that force 90% of the energy from the explosion into the armor of the vehicle. This makes the round incredibly effective against armor but about damn near useless against infantry, unless of course its a direct hit and well that foot soldier is toast. They need to change the FG to direct hit only if it is going to have zero deviation from shot to shot. This way if you directly hit a tank or infantry it will do a massive amount of damage but it punishes you heavily if you miss.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 1764	Posted - 2013.09.20 23:40:00 - [164] - Quote It makes about zero sense for the FG to have spash in the first place. From a balance perspective, it's damage is balanced an anti tank weapon (Dropships be damned). When firing at a tank, you don't use the spash. You either hit it or you miss it. Unless you're firing vertically down in which case the spash really won't affect much compared to the 2500 damage it'll be doing. So pray tell, why does this AV weapon need spash for killing tanks?
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3205	Posted - 2013.09.20 23:49:00 - [165] - Quote The stats of an individual are never enough to go off of. Even if there was heavy evidence that forge guns were almost always performing well, there are other factors- poor map design (for the older maps/outposts) is one of them.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Top Men. 1308	Posted - 2013.09.21 07:06:00 - [166] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The stats of an individual are never enough to go off of. Even if there was heavy evidence that forge guns were almost always performing well, there are other factors- poor map design (for the older maps/outposts) is one of them. CCP is moving away from maps that allow snipers to just find a high point and be lazy for the rest of the match. This affects the problems people have with forge guns and force them to engage. this will bring down the problem quite a lot.


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