= Dust iWin button.

Something really needs to be done about squads in pub matches. Yes this is a team-based game, I get it, but you know even if I am playing solo I still try to play as a team-player. Most others do as well from what I have noticed. But as soon as a 6 (or less) organized squad enters the other team, all hell breaks loose and a once balanced match turns into a mass suicide mission.

Players who use the defense that this is a team-based game, should be thrilled at the aspect of squad-free modes, which means if they decide to squad-up they will only face other organized squads of equal skill. But realistically they just want easy kills, so they try to keep it as it is now.

OB's also add insult to injury in the case of squads vs no squads, IMO the requirement for OB's need to increase dramatically, especially since the WP requirement hasn't changed from the 4-player squads of Chromosome to the now 6-player squads. I think the majority of my deaths tonight came from being OB'ed just because I happened to be near the blob of blues when one went off. Or even worse is spawning at the default spawn only to get rained on by a OP OB strike mere seconds after spawning.

The most fun and balanced matches come from 100% random vs 100% random, or squads vs squads (somewhat equal in skill), but putting squads of organized players with mics into matches vs mostly randoms greatly unbalances matches.

The new MM has been used and tested out, which still equates in squad domination. So can we PLEASE consider squad-free modes CCP?

= Dust iWin button.

Something really needs to be done about squads in pub matches. Yes this is a team-based game, I get it, but you know even if I am playing solo I still try to play as a team-player. Most others do as well from what I have noticed. But as soon as a 6 (or less) organized squad enters the other team, all hell breaks loose and a once balanced match turns into a mass suicide mission.

Players who use the defense that this is a team-based game, should be thrilled at the aspect of squad-free modes, which means if they decide to squad-up they will only face other organized squads of equal skill. But realistically they just want easy kills, so they try to keep it as it is now.

OB's also add insult to injury in the case of squads vs no squads, IMO the requirement for OB's need to increase dramatically, especially since the WP requirement hasn't changed from the 4-player squads of Chromosome to the now 6-player squads. I think the majority of my deaths tonight came from being OB'ed just because I happened to be near the blob of blues when one went off. Or even worse is spawning at the default spawn only to get rained on by a OP OB strike mere seconds after spawning.

The most fun and balanced matches come from 100% random vs 100% random, or squads vs squads (somewhat equal in skill), but putting squads of organized players with mics into matches vs mostly randoms greatly unbalances matches.

The new MM has been used and tested out, which still equates in squad domination. So can we PLEASE consider squad-free modes CCP?

Are you moaning that orbitals are OP? They always have been and always will be, thats the idea!

If an organised squad tears you a new one then make your own squad to counter it.

However, I do sympathise a little, it would be nice if there were game modes for running solo, as well as game modes for small squads as well as FULL TEAMS like corp battles again etc. Hell PC with 6 man squads too.

join game, corp or alliance squads on enemy side, leave and re que.

all you need to get most of what you want. no one is forcing you to go up against a full squad or team.

If an organised squad tears you a new one then make your own squad to counter it.

= Dust iWin button.

Something really needs to be done about squads in pub matches. Yes this is a team-based game, I get it, but you know even if I am playing solo I still try to play as a team-player. Most others do as well from what I have noticed. But as soon as a 6 (or less) organized squad enters the other team, all hell breaks loose and a once balanced match turns into a mass suicide mission.

Players who use the defense that this is a team-based game, should be thrilled at the aspect of squad-free modes, which means if they decide to squad-up they will only face other organized squads of equal skill. But realistically they just want easy kills, so they try to keep it as it is now.

OB's also add insult to injury in the case of squads vs no squads, IMO the requirement for OB's need to increase dramatically, especially since the WP requirement hasn't changed from the 4-player squads of Chromosome to the now 6-player squads. I think the majority of my deaths tonight came from being OB'ed just because I happened to be near the blob of blues when one went off. Or even worse is spawning at the default spawn only to get rained on by a OP OB strike mere seconds after spawning.

The most fun and balanced matches come from 100% random vs 100% random, or squads vs squads (somewhat equal in skill), but putting squads of organized players with mics into matches vs mostly randoms greatly unbalances matches.

The new MM has been used and tested out, which still equates in squad domination. So can we PLEASE consider squad-free modes CCP?

People are stupid, when playing solo make a squad or always join one, type what gear your using an make a squad, for example " squad up, I got scanners and a logi, hives an links lets get a ob"
Lol then snipe, jk.

Typing usually helps

= Dust iWin button.

Something really needs to be done about squads in pub matches. Yes this is a team-based game, I get it, but you know even if I am playing solo I still try to play as a team-player. Most others do as well from what I have noticed. But as soon as a 6 (or less) organized squad enters the other team, all hell breaks loose and a once balanced match turns into a mass suicide mission.

Players who use the defense that this is a team-based game, should be thrilled at the aspect of squad-free modes, which means if they decide to squad-up they will only face other organized squads of equal skill. But realistically they just want easy kills, so they try to keep it as it is now.

OB's also add insult to injury in the case of squads vs no squads, IMO the requirement for OB's need to increase dramatically, especially since the WP requirement hasn't changed from the 4-player squads of Chromosome to the now 6-player squads. I think the majority of my deaths tonight came from being OB'ed just because I happened to be near the blob of blues when one went off. Or even worse is spawning at the default spawn only to get rained on by a OP OB strike mere seconds after spawning.

The most fun and balanced matches come from 100% random vs 100% random, or squads vs squads (somewhat equal in skill), but putting squads of organized players with mics into matches vs mostly randoms greatly unbalances matches.

The new MM has been used and tested out, which still equates in squad domination. So can we PLEASE consider squad-free modes CCP?

Remove squads and vehicles from Ambush and you solve about a million problems. Without causing a lot of hurt, since the "core" of the game is Skirmish (and to a lesser extend Domination) anyway.

Also more ways for squads and teams to play competitively without having to walk all over randoms would go a long way.

And the matchmaking should never, ever, put a squad against no squad, that is just a big no no. Unfortunately that's hard to enforce in DUST, since squads can just leave after the initial matchmaking, or squads can form up after a solo player was seeded already... Not to mention that squads come in different sizes to begin with. Maybe those things should be given some thought as well.

This **** again?

Leukoplast, seriously, you need to get some friends or SOMETHING. You have been creating the SAME thread about squads being OP for as long as I've seen you on the forums. Are you seriously that much a noob that people don't want to play with you? Are you really that antisocial that squading just isn't for you? Why do you insist on trying to turn a team based game into solo play?

Even I enjoy going lonewolf sometimes but I realize when I'm outmatched by teamwork. My recourse? Squad up and hit em back. Yours? Go on the forums and whine about the SAME topic you've made threads about dozens of times now. Seriously, give it up. Quit being such a damn scrub, find some friends, and make a squad. Stop complaining about one of the most fundamental aspects of this game: Teamwork. I'm so sick of your threads. It's the same thing every ******* time.

If we are going with teamwork is OP idea

Then why not combine this with the other complaints and give a mode that does all of the following

No Squads, No OB, No Vehicles, Militia Only. We could call the game mode Cordial Operating District.

That is like 5 birds with one stone while the rest of us duke it out in low sec

Teamwork OP


^This applies to Dust also.

Im now facefisting at this post good ol leuky is crying about team work af@#kingen ,wow you really dont like running on a squad in a team based game. Can you even understand what part of that sentence implies you should be on squad. You really are in the wrong game I really do think you should just biomass yourself give up and go play cod. Please for the love of god and all thats sacred just biomass yourself and go . No one will miss you I promise.

You heard it here, first, folks: DJINN Luek thinks teamwork is OP and orbitals kill his dropsuit too fast.

Orbitals for the winning team make no sense. The losing team would call in what is essentially artillery support to try and get a leg up. The winning team using it is just a troll feature.

The rich get richer and the poor stay poor. That is how EVE works too and it why CCP can't build a player base beyond a core group of regulars with temp players filtering in for a little while.

The problem is also proto gear. You'll see squads that are working together with blueberries joining in and putting up a good, organized fight only to lose due to simply being shot down quicker and therefore the respawn time keeping the numbers down long enough for the other proto team to overcome a position.

I said it before and will keep on saying it:

Variety and versatility should win over sheer gear power. Forget module power and simply allow for what roles a suit can fulfill.

You can win based on basic infantry assault overpowering an opponent or you can win on strategy with support roles.

Atm it is still a basic proto stomp element that wins games. Everyone else ends up being carried until they can get to the proto gear stage.

If we are going with teamwork is OP idea

Then why not combine this with the other complaints and give a mode that does all of the following

No Squads, No OB, No Vehicles, Militia Only. We could call the game mode Cordial Operating District.

That is like 5 birds with one stone while the rest of us duke it out in low sec

We could call it "Plain Vanilla Cake Mode"

No no, no

C ordial
O perating
D istrict

is much better

= Dust iWin button.

Something really needs to be done about squads in pub matches. Yes this is a team-based game, I get it, but you know even if I am playing solo I still try to play as a team-player. Most others do as well from what I have noticed. But as soon as a 6 (or less) organized squad enters the other team, all hell breaks loose and a once balanced match turns into a mass suicide mission.

Players who use the defense that this is a team-based game, should be thrilled at the aspect of squad-free modes, which means if they decide to squad-up they will only face other organized squads of equal skill. But realistically they just want easy kills, so they try to keep it as it is now.

OB's also add insult to injury in the case of squads vs no squads, IMO the requirement for OB's need to increase dramatically, especially since the WP requirement hasn't changed from the 4-player squads of Chromosome to the now 6-player squads. I think the majority of my deaths tonight came from being OB'ed just because I happened to be near the blob of blues when one went off. Or even worse is spawning at the default spawn only to get rained on by a OP OB strike mere seconds after spawning.

The most fun and balanced matches come from 100% random vs 100% random, or squads vs squads (somewhat equal in skill), but putting squads of organized players with mics into matches vs mostly randoms greatly unbalances matches.

The new MM has been used and tested out, which still equates in squad domination. So can we PLEASE consider squad-free modes CCP?

The point is not that teamwork is OP. Rather, all present game modes give artificial bonuses for playing in a five or six man squad over and above any teamwork, namely:

1. Squad WP pooled for OBs, whereas solo player WP is not pooled and is therefore almost always wasted (<5% of players hit 2500WP solo regularly).
2. Extra WP (defend circle jerk), which exacerbates point 1 and also provides a little extra SP and ISK.
3. Vision shared with squad, whereas solo players are 'flying blind'.

None of these points reflects any plausible battlefield considerations. Why would war barge gunners only fire when a squad amassed a certain amount of WP? Why is your kill considered more valuable when the squad has been told to defend you? Why would the dropsuit sensors be hardwired to deny intel to non-squad friendlies?

Furthermore, none of these points concerns 'teamwork'. You don't need to communicate with your squad to get any of these bonuses, or even pay any attention to what they are doing. If your squad's teamwork is so great, why do you need all these non-teamwork bonuses in every gamemode?

I squad most of the time, and prefer to play the game that way. OBs are cool and I can't think of a better way of rewarding them. But I can't see what harm there is in also having a squadless option. Call it Gun Game Mode. Sometimes I don't have the time to make a squad and want a few quick games without landing in pubstomp after pubstomp. More importantly, new players usually don't have the choice of making a squad with competent players. You already have 10-20 times their SP, do you really need OBs and squad vision to beat them?

Teamwork OP


^This applies to Dust also.

the proto suits and vehicles is not the problem, it's the squads. 2 to 3 squads on one side is just wrong. makes for a boring match. no harm in making a solo mode.

You heard it here, first, folks: DJINN Luek thinks teamwork is OP and orbitals kill his dropsuit too fast.

Teamwork is so op. I was curious to why they had a big battle map on the war barge that could not be interacted with and a person in my squad told me it used to be interactive but they removed that aspect because it gave an "unfair" advantage to experienced players. CCP seriously nerfed teamwork this is a team based game keep it the way it is it gives incentive for blueberries to join squads.

We should also remove aiming while we're at it. Core mechanics that have a chance to defeat me seriously ought to be taken out of the game.

I usually play by myself and get an average of 2500 wp.

AVERAGE.

It's not that hard to earn an orbital by yourself.
Then again, I do agree with what you're saying.

However, teamwork isn't OP...it's the fact that no teamwork is UP
Especially when Logistics have an even harder time finding players to help.

Give a man a fish, and he's going to beg for a game mode where you hand him fish all day. Teach a man to fish like the other men, and you can all go fishing together.



Instead of making it easier to suck at Dust 514 (ie: not be in a corporation, not use a mic, not play in squads), why don't CCP just create a new player experience that shows people how to do the basic important stuff like add user channels, how to join corporations, how to create squads outside of matches, etc?

Furthermore, why isn't there also something that tells people WHY they should be doing these things? Do CCP just not understand their own game well enough to explain it to others? What's the hold up? Do they just not think that explaining all this stuff is important? Do they think most people search the web for detailed information about free game they download?

This stuff needs to be part of the core new user experience or the majority of players are going to continue to boot the game up and run solo without a mic, and then wonder why they get their ****'s smashed in. If you don't show someone what makes Dust 514 special (corporations, squad cooperation, player specialization and synergy, etc), most won't figure it out for themselves before deleting the game off their hard drives. You literally have to either accidentally stumble across someone in-game who explains it to you, or you have to search out the game online for yourself.


The game doesn't have a large enough player base to add yet another game mode for people who don't want to play the game the way it was designed and balanced to be played. Just show people why they should be in squads and corporations, and then make it easy for them to get into squads and corporations.


You don't fix a problem by making the problem the status quo.

But I think we all know that the majority of squaded players are against this idea because they love being the only squad in a game and getting to massacre pubs, to the point where I've seen squads leave battle when faced with a squad that will give them a good run for their money.

I vaguely recall a discussion being held regarding removing Orbitals from public matches.

To the countless posters saying "If you want to counter an organized squad, create your own!"

Creating a squad of random people from a LFG channel, or inviting in game, is absolutely nowhere near as effective or organized as squadding with people you know, who you know don't suck, and who you know all have Mics and gear that mesh's with each others loadouts.

It's really a bad argument to make.

Furthermore, pub games are mostly random people looking for matches. Allow squads in goes counter to their point, which is to go in and have a fun game against people of relatively equal skill. Pre-made Squads completely unbalance the equation.

Personally, i'd prefer to see Premade's limited to PC and FW. Pub matches should be solo people or in-match squads only(ones made from people on the team, which get disbanded at the match end)

Randoms squadding up isn't the same as a team that actually knows each other and plays on a comparable level. Especially if that level happens to be "high"...

I think there's a lot of validity to your argument.

I'd actually really like to see Pub matches restricted to solo play, and FW/PC restricted to squads only.

Of course, this would need to include some better incentives for participating in FW and PC in the first place. I still firmly believe that the main thrust of the game should be to get people into corporations, and thus into squads, as soon as possible.

I agree that random squads aren't much better than no squad at all, but I don't think most people are arguing for "random" squads. In subdreddit, for example, the norm is to squad up and to have a mic. If someone doesn't have a mic, they are strongly urged to spend the $10 on one. The whole point for us is playing together and forming a community. The game is pretty damn awful otherwise. Most people don't ever even get a chance to experience what being in a properly functioning corporation is like, because they don't even understand what a corporation is, or what function it serves, in the first place.

At this point, there are already a myriad of corps that would likely match up in one way or another with most player's sensibilities. CCP just needs to find a way to bring finding a corporation to the forefront, and give players the information they need to do so. It's tough to make your own corporation, but it's pretty easy to join one... and all but the most anti-social of the anti-social will end up enjoying themselves more and performing better in a corp than not.

This is supposed to be an MMO afterall.

Real talk though... I get what you are saying, but I disagree. In terms of practicality, I do not think we have the playerbase to divide between squadded and unsquadded (see: "ambush modes merged" if you disagree). I also think the assumption that people just want to solo in a random chaotic free for all is misguided. I remember seeing old school CBT corps running around slaughtering people and personally my response as a complete and utter noob was "wow, they work really well together... I want to be like that one day" and learned how effective a solid squad with integrated tank support could be. To me that complexity is appealing... one of the main appeals of this game.

Take that away and you are left with very little.

= Dust iWin button.

Something really needs to be done about squads in pub matches. Yes this is a team-based game, I get it, but you know even if I am playing solo I still try to play as a team-player. Most others do as well from what I have noticed. But as soon as a 6 (or less) organized squad enters the other team, all hell breaks loose and a once balanced match turns into a mass suicide mission.

Players who use the defense that this is a team-based game, should be thrilled at the aspect of squad-free modes, which means if they decide to squad-up they will only face other organized squads of equal skill. But realistically they just want easy kills, so they try to keep it as it is now.

OB's also add insult to injury in the case of squads vs no squads, IMO the requirement for OB's need to increase dramatically, especially since the WP requirement hasn't changed from the 4-player squads of Chromosome to the now 6-player squads. I think the majority of my deaths tonight came from being OB'ed just because I happened to be near the blob of blues when one went off. Or even worse is spawning at the default spawn only to get rained on by a OP OB strike mere seconds after spawning.

The most fun and balanced matches come from 100% random vs 100% random, or squads vs squads (somewhat equal in skill), but putting squads of organized players with mics into matches vs mostly randoms greatly unbalances matches.

The new MM has been used and tested out, which still equates in squad domination. So can we PLEASE consider squad-free modes CCP?

Regarding the first part, that's why I find the idea of only reserving Ambush for solo play so tempting. I do believe that we'd have enough solo players to fill Ambush, and squads would flock towards Skirmish and Domination, thus creating more squad vs. squad encounters. I'm also certain that we'd still have enough solo players choosing to play Skirmish or Domination to fill the gaps (I know I would).

Regarding your second point, it seems that you are not alone in the opinion that DUST does not have much to offer without squads. But I don't think it's reasonable to base game design on that assumption. I enjoy playing solo and putting my own skills to the test. I don't enjoy walking all over randoms with a squad of superior firepower. It all comes back to "people are different".

My father is currently addicted to EVE Online, and just a few days ago he told me again how what he likes most about the game is that you are really free to do your own thing, without the game dictating how you are supposed to have fun (he's a solo player by the way). I'd like us to have the same kind of freedom in DUST, and for the most part I think that we do.

Reserving ambush for solo play limits the options of people who enjoy squad play, and is even more detrimental to people who enjoy soloing in Skirmish. You are now 'tracking' people into a certain game mode based on whether or not they are solo or in a squad. Limiting the game this way just gives people fewer options.

I personally solo quite a lot, and games against teams with organized squads are often the most fun. Just sayin.