DUST Search - 6 player squad + mics + active scanner + OB

Baal Roo wrote:

Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:

To the countless posters saying "If you want to counter an organized squad, create your own!"

Creating a squad of random people from a LFG channel, or inviting in game, is absolutely nowhere near as effective or organized as squadding with people you know, who you know don't suck, and who you know all have Mics and gear that mesh's with each others loadouts.

It's really a bad argument to make.

Furthermore, pub games are mostly random people looking for matches. Allow squads in goes counter to their point, which is to go in and have a fun game against people of relatively equal skill. Pre-made Squads completely unbalance the equation.

Personally, i'd prefer to see Premade's limited to PC and FW. Pub matches should be solo people or in-match squads only(ones made from people on the team, which get disbanded at the match end)

I think there's a lot of validity to your argument.

I'd actually really like to see Pub matches restricted to solo play, and FW/PC restricted to squads only.

Of course, this would need to include some better incentives for participating in FW and PC in the first place. I still firmly believe that the main thrust of the game should be to get people into corporations, and thus into squads, as soon as possible.

I agree that random squads aren't much better than no squad at all, but I don't think most people are arguing for "random" squads. In subdreddit, for example, the norm is to squad up and to have a mic. If someone doesn't have a mic, they are strongly urged to spend the $10 on one. The whole point for us is playing together and forming a community. The game is pretty damn awful otherwise. Most people don't ever even get a chance to experience what being in a properly functioning corporation is like, because they don't even understand what a corporation is, or what function it serves, in the first place.

At this point, there are already a myriad of corps that would likely match up in one way or another with most player's sensibilities. CCP just needs to find a way to bring finding a corporation to the forefront, and give players the information they need to do so. It's tough to make your own corporation, but it's pretty easy to join one... and all but the most anti-social of the anti-social will end up enjoying themselves more and performing better in a corp than not.

This is supposed to be an MMO afterall.


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Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 185	Posted - 2013.09.15 11:25:00 - [1] - Quote Remove squads and vehicles from Ambush and you solve about a million problems. Without causing a lot of hurt, since the "core" of the game is Skirmish (and to a lesser extend Domination) anyway. Also more ways for squads and teams to play competitively without having to walk all over randoms would go a long way. And the matchmaking should never, ever, put a squad against no squad, that is just a big no no. Unfortunately that's hard to enforce in DUST, since squads can just leave after the initial matchmaking, or squads can form up after a solo player was seeded already... Not to mention that squads come in different sizes to begin with. Maybe those things should be given some thought as well.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 186	Posted - 2013.09.15 11:53:00 - [2] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: join game, corp or alliance squads on enemy side, leave and re que. all you need to get most of what you want. no one is forcing you to go up against a full squad or team. If I leave, the game often puts me into the same game two or three times in a row. It's a huge waste of time. I rarely bother now and just do what I can, whether my team is redlining or being stomped, whatever. I can deal with it, but I also agree with Leukoplast in that the matches by average are a lot more fun with randoms on each side. Even more so than squads vs. squads, because the latter often turns into lagfests due to all the blobs and uplinks (but that's another issue).
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 187	Posted - 2013.09.15 14:34:00 - [3] - Quote What always bothers me in discussions like this is the people who think that winning is all that matters. Squad vs. randoms is boring, no matter on which side we play. I do alright now playing solo, why would I want to stack the decks by squadding up? What do I stand to gain, other than making the game easier to play? I don't see how that is more fun. Generally I love playing squad vs. squad, and that's the majority of what I did when I used to play competitive shooters on the PC. Back then, the mere idea of taking a competitive squad to a public server to own some random newbs would have been ridiculed. I didn't want to do it back then, and I don't want to do it now. Winning is NOT everything.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 187	Posted - 2013.09.15 14:35:00 - [4] - Quote OZAROW wrote: People are stupid, when playing solo make a squad or always join one, type what gear your using an make a squad, for example " squad up, I got scanners and a logi, hives an links lets get a ob" Lol then snipe, jk. Typing usually helps Randoms squadding up isn't the same as a team that actually knows each other and plays on a comparable level. Especially if that level happens to be "high"...
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 196	Posted - 2013.09.16 08:38:00 - [5] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: To the countless posters saying "If you want to counter an organized squad, create your own!" Creating a squad of random people from a LFG channel, or inviting in game, is absolutely nowhere near as effective or organized as squadding with people you know, who you know don't suck, and who you know all have Mics and gear that mesh's with each others loadouts. It's really a bad argument to make. Furthermore, pub games are mostly random people looking for matches. Allow squads in goes counter to their point, which is to go in and have a fun game against people of relatively equal skill. Pre-made Squads completely unbalance the equation. Personally, i'd prefer to see Premade's limited to PC and FW. Pub matches should be solo people or in-match squads only(ones made from people on the team, which get disbanded at the match end) I think there's a lot of validity to your argument. I'd actually really like to see Pub matches restricted to solo play, and FW/PC restricted to squads only. Of course, this would need to include some better incentives for participating in FW and PC in the first place. I still firmly believe that the main thrust of the game should be to get people into corporations, and thus into squads, as soon as possible. I agree that random squads aren't much better than no squad at all, but I don't think most people are arguing for "random" squads. In subdreddit, for example, the norm is to squad up and to have a mic. If someone doesn't have a mic, they are strongly urged to spend the $10 on one. The whole point for us is playing together and forming a community. The game is pretty damn awful otherwise. Most people don't ever even get a chance to experience what being in a properly functioning corporation is like, because they don't even understand what a corporation is, or what function it serves, in the first place. At this point, there are already a myriad of corps that would likely match up in one way or another with most player's sensibilities. CCP just needs to find a way to bring finding a corporation to the forefront, and give players the information they need to do so. It's tough to make your own corporation, but it's pretty easy to join one... and all but the most anti-social of the anti-social will end up enjoying themselves more and performing better in a corp than not. This is supposed to be an MMO afterall. Keep in mind though, that people are different. I enjoy fixed squads in a competitive setting, but it's not my choice when I just want to chill and have a good time. Region issues, performance issues, delays for forming the squad and in between rounds while players ready up, and not being able to do whatever I want whenever I want, are all reasons why I have more fun playing solo. Not to mention that the game really isn't too hard, so I have no incentive to make things easier. I hate being in a team that's red lining the other and I'd rather play as David vs Goliath. Also MMO does not mean that you have to play in groups. Most MMOs can be played solo just fine, and that includes EVE online. I would like to see a stronger focus on competitive group play, but also an improvement to the solo experience. I really don't think that at least one solo public mode would be unreasonable. Even if ambush would be the solo mode, I would still play more skirmish because I like it. But solo ambush would be a nice break, and a place to retreat to when the try hard proto squads lock down the publics (which is really only a problem because the relatively low player count makes it hard to avoid them).
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 197	Posted - 2013.09.16 12:40:00 - [6] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Real talk though... I get what you are saying, but I disagree. In terms of practicality, I do not think we have the playerbase to divide between squadded and unsquadded (see: "ambush modes merged" if you disagree). I also think the assumption that people just want to solo in a random chaotic free for all is misguided. I remember seeing old school CBT corps running around slaughtering people and personally my response as a complete and utter noob was "wow, they work really well together... I want to be like that one day" and learned how effective a solid squad with integrated tank support could be. To me that complexity is appealing... one of the main appeals of this game. Take that away and you are left with very little. Regarding the first part, that's why I find the idea of only reserving Ambush for solo play so tempting. I do believe that we'd have enough solo players to fill Ambush, and squads would flock towards Skirmish and Domination, thus creating more squad vs. squad encounters. I'm also certain that we'd still have enough solo players choosing to play Skirmish or Domination to fill the gaps (I know I would). Regarding your second point, it seems that you are not alone in the opinion that DUST does not have much to offer without squads. But I don't think it's reasonable to base game design on that assumption. I enjoy playing solo and putting my own skills to the test. I don't enjoy walking all over randoms with a squad of superior firepower. It all comes back to "people are different". My father is currently addicted to EVE Online, and just a few days ago he told me again how what he likes most about the game is that you are really free to do your own thing, without the game dictating how you are supposed to have fun (he's a solo player by the way). I'd like us to have the same kind of freedom in DUST, and for the most part I think that we do.