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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
902
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Posted - 2013.09.15 14:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Remove squads and vehicles from Ambush and you solve about a million problems. Without causing a lot of hurt, since the "core" of the game is Skirmish (and to a lesser extend Domination) anyway.
Also more ways for squads and teams to play competitively without having to walk all over randoms would go a long way.
And the matchmaking should never, ever, put a squad against no squad, that is just a big no no. Unfortunately that's hard to enforce in DUST, since squads can just leave after the initial matchmaking, or squads can form up after a solo player was seeded already... Not to mention that squads come in different sizes to begin with. Maybe those things should be given some thought as well. This is my preferred solution also. In fact, i'd be happy to keep vehicles and just stop the matchmaker from pulling pre-formed squads into the match, or pulling a squad in, breaking up the squad and distributing members evenly between the two sides and re-forming the squad at match end.
Thinking about it a little, i rally like that second mechanic for squads: pull in, break up, split evenly and reform after match end. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
903
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Posted - 2013.09.15 16:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:This **** again?
Leukoplast, seriously, you need to get some friends or SOMETHING. You have been creating the SAME thread about squads being OP for as long as I've seen you on the forums. Are you seriously that much a noob that people don't want to play with you? Are you really that antisocial that squading just isn't for you? Why do you insist on trying to turn a team based game into solo play?
Even I enjoy going lonewolf sometimes but I realize when I'm outmatched by teamwork. My recourse? Squad up and hit em back. Yours? Go on the forums and whine about the SAME topic you've made threads about dozens of times now. Seriously, give it up. Quit being such a damn scrub, find some friends, and make a squad. Stop complaining about one of the most fundamental aspects of this game: Teamwork. I'm so sick of your threads. It's the same thing every ******* time. I think this is an interim issue owing to our small playerbase. The matchmaker can't really operate in the way it was intended with such small numbers of players and a disproportionate number of high sp and isk vets who know the game inside out.
New players are the ones who pay the price for this and that's the concern. As an example, if i see a squad from one of the experienced corps with an open slot i join because i know that, without a doubt, we are gonna smash the ever-loving f*** out of the other side and then proceed to rub their noses in it for the rest of the march. Fun, no?
Until we get our numbers up to the point where the matchmaker can make teams of impoverished noobs vs. impoverished noobs and killer vets vs. killer vets i think a no-squad mode might be a good interim solution as the step that comes after the academy, with the player having the choice as to what kind of match they're looking for.
Aaaand....to give the matchmaker it's due, all my matches today have been close, brutal and hella fun. Maybe that's because there's 4900 peeps on right now? |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
905
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Posted - 2013.09.15 21:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Give a man a fish, and he's going to beg for a game mode where you hand him fish all day. Teach a man to fish like the other men, and you can all go fishing together.
Instead of making it easier to suck at Dust 514 (ie: not be in a corporation, not use a mic, not play in squads), why don't CCP just create a new player experience that shows people how to do the basic important stuff like add user channels, how to join corporations, how to create squads outside of matches, etc?
Furthermore, why isn't there also something that tells people WHY they should be doing these things? Do CCP just not understand their own game well enough to explain it to others? What's the hold up? Do they just not think that explaining all this stuff is important? Do they think most people search the web for detailed information about free game they download?
This stuff needs to be part of the core new user experience or the majority of players are going to continue to boot the game up and run solo without a mic, and then wonder why they get their ****'s smashed in. If you don't show someone what makes Dust 514 special (corporations, squad cooperation, player specialization and synergy, etc), most won't figure it out for themselves before deleting the game off their hard drives. You literally have to either accidentally stumble across someone in-game who explains it to you, or you have to search out the game online for yourself.
The game doesn't have a large enough player base to add yet another game mode for people who don't want to play the game the way it was designed and balanced to be played. Just show people why they should be in squads and corporations, and then make it easy for them to get into squads and corporations.
You don't fix a problem by making the problem the status quo. Strongly agreed re the New Player Experience. It is, without qualification, the most important next addition to DUST. We won't really start to grow our numbers or be ready for the next wave of marketing and reviews until a thorough hands-on educational walkthrough is in place.
Disagree with you on the value of a squadfree mode. I think it would give players time and space, and allow them to see the value of squadding up in-match. I think right now the strength of the experienced, high sp and wealthy corp squads is effectively 'swamping the signal' because blueberry squads get rolled the same way solo blueberries do.
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
908
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Posted - 2013.09.16 12:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I run solo a lot and it works out well enough for me. Always try and hop into a squad and leave at end of match.
My motivations for doing this are time-based. I work and life at home is busy so i have to make sure i take care of domestic bidness and fight tooth and nail to clear a window where i can play DUST. Often late at night whe i should be sleeping. When i do play it's non-stop serial grinding and most week i don't hit the cap.
Anyway, when i find myself sitting in a squad that's taking 5-10 minutes between matches it makes me freakin' crazy, so i don't corp squad for fear of offending peeps. And my corpies are a great group of clones to hang with.
That's one merc's excuse for running solo, fwiw. Other peeps have other reasons.
One of the great things about EVE's free-roam structure is peeps are truly free to play the game in their own way. In DUST, because we're married to the lobby shooter structure things are a lot more constrained.
I'm 100% with Baal Roo on the opinion that DUST is first and foremost a social team game. And for sure that's the way CCP sees things. I think that whatever mechanic we come up with should promote social gaming, but at the same time we can't penalize peeps for playing the game their way.
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
910
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Posted - 2013.09.16 13:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Real talk though... I get what you are saying, but I disagree. In terms of practicality, I do not think we have the playerbase to divide between squadded and unsquadded (see: "ambush modes merged" if you disagree). I also think the assumption that people just want to solo in a random chaotic free for all is misguided. I remember seeing old school CBT corps running around slaughtering people and personally my response as a complete and utter noob was "wow, they work really well together... I want to be like that one day" and learned how effective a solid squad with integrated tank support could be. To me that complexity is appealing... one of the main appeals of this game.
Take that away and you are left with very little. Regarding the first part, that's why I find the idea of only reserving Ambush for solo play so tempting. I do believe that we'd have enough solo players to fill Ambush, and squads would flock towards Skirmish and Domination, thus creating more squad vs. squad encounters. I'm also certain that we'd still have enough solo players choosing to play Skirmish or Domination to fill the gaps (I know I would). Regarding your second point, it seems that you are not alone in the opinion that DUST does not have much to offer without squads. But I don't think it's reasonable to base game design on that assumption. I enjoy playing solo and putting my own skills to the test. I don't enjoy walking all over randoms with a squad of superior firepower. It all comes back to "people are different". My father is currently addicted to EVE Online, and just a few days ago he told me again how what he likes most about the game is that you are really free to do your own thing, without the game dictating how you are supposed to have fun (he's a solo player by the way). I'd like us to have the same kind of freedom in DUST, and for the most part I think that we do.
o/ Csikszent Mihalyi, just on a personal note my father, at age 77, is a 5 year EVE player, and solos also. I give him hulks when he gets his blown up ;)
My intuition is also that DUST could handle a solo mode and still keep queue times reasonable. I'm typically getting skirmish matches in 3-10 seconds. Ofc prolly 50% are underway already =\
A squadless mode would probably serve to keep more new players in DUST and bring up our numbers some also. CCP's job would then be making squadding up convenient and rewarding.
@ Rogatien Merc: I've got the same concerns about splitting the playerbase - many here remember how frustrating it was to get some of the higher-tier game modes in MAG.
This is why i am not anxious to see any kind of PvE come to DUST, which might serve as a black hole that sucks in solo players rarely to be seen again. But in the case of this squadless PvP mode, my guess is that in the long run squad PvP would get a net gain from it - if CCP set it up right. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
912
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Posted - 2013.09.17 11:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Reserving ambush for solo play limits the options of people who enjoy squad play, and is even more detrimental to people who enjoy soloing in Skirmish. You are now 'tracking' people into a certain game mode based on whether or not they are solo or in a squad. Limiting the game this way just gives people fewer options.
I personally solo quite a lot, and games against teams with organized squads are often the most fun. Just sayin. +1 Agreed. |
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