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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
708
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Posted - 2013.09.15 04:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are a multitude of old issues associated with PC battles that have begun to crop up again:
- Very low frame rates, sometimes as low as ~1FPS; Some maps are worse than others
- Players getting kicked from game while experiencing the other listed effects
- Lower frame rates in general, even when not absurd
- Higher latency even on "home" servers
If this affects you, please keep the post bumped. These issues were the reason that many players quit playing Dust with Uprising 1.0, and they really drain a lot of the fun out of PC.
o7 |
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
224
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Posted - 2013.09.15 04:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah, getting some matches with terrible lag. It's a bummer to feel this frustrated. Time for a break. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
116261
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Posted - 2013.09.15 04:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
708
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Posted - 2013.09.15 04:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D
It's simply happening in every PC match to seemingly random players. This includes players who restarted their entire systems immediately prior to the match.
We are putting 16 players into team chat, and we're not able to mute people because of the mic bubble bug that randomly makes it so that people who are active in voice chat on a channel don't necessarily have a voice bubble and thus can't be muted.
In terms of reproduction, though, that's the extent of it. Certainly even if the frame rate isn't soul-crushingly bad, the performance is still kinda woeful compared to your typical pub match. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
116269
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Posted - 2013.09.15 04:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D It's simply happening in every PC match to seemingly random players. This includes players who restarted their entire systems immediately prior to the match. We are putting 16 players into team chat, and we're not able to mute people because of the mic bubble bug that randomly makes it so that people who are active in voice chat on a channel don't necessarily have a voice bubble and thus can't be muted. In terms of reproduction, though, that's the extent of it. Certainly even if the frame rate isn't soul-crushingly bad, the performance is still kinda woeful compared to your typical pub match.
Thanks for the heads up, I will pass this along and see if others are aware of it.
If you know others having this problem can you please get them to post here. The more people sharing will help a lot. :)
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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Zero Notion
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 04:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
It happened for me most recently in a game of Domination tonight, the new map where objective A is underground in a missile silo-esque area with the supply depot in the next room.
I really can't say anything strange was going on in the match. There were few drop uplinks around that I noticed. I didn't hear very many people speaking.
It's happened on both old and new maps, both skirmish and domination. I haven't had it happen in ambush yet. Individuals I'm in a squad with have noticed it, too. It's not 'consistent' and I only noticed it yesterday and today. I tried to take note of anything 'strange' and beyond someone having a lot of kills (38?) in two matches (that I noticed out of the six or so its happened) which is relatively rare to see, nothing seemed out of the norm. |
SIN MadBrute
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 05:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D
I think the fps drops are due to overuse of nanohives & uplinks.
In PC battles they are everywhere, the game has to render that pulse they emit.
The game chugs when it has to render 50+ pulses at once. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
752
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Posted - 2013.09.15 05:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Every PC battle I have ever been in, which is admittedly limited thanks to the afore mentioned issue limiting the fun of it, has had lag issues. |
X-eon
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
47
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Posted - 2013.09.15 06:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
From what I've noticed, A lot of the lag has been around structures. Not inside of them, but around them in general. |
Jade Hasegawa
Intrepidus XI
EoN.
120
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Posted - 2013.09.15 06:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D
It can also be our of region abuse, was playing last week on the euro zone server and the enemy teamwas full of folk from Brazil and Japan, no wonder I rubber banded allover the shop,not being racist here but when someone is that far away from aserver it is going to hurt the lag compensation and frame rate, not to mention the magic bullets that seem to go round corners as a result |
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McFurious
TeamPlayers
EoN.
368
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Posted - 2013.09.15 06:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
I was playing in the same PC matches as Leither today and they were laggy similar to Uprising 1.0. They were on one of the new Gallente maps and inside the city areas were the laggiest. For me the match started smoothly but quickly became laggier as the match went on. However, some players on our side were saying they experienced no lag. So I guess it's not universal.
Right after the PC matches I played on the same map but it was a pub ambush and there was no lag or hardly any. I do have 7 or 8 chat windows going but I'll have to wait until tomorrow and see if it helps to close some of them or not. |
The Attorney General
ZionTCD
894
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 07:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
A couple of days ago I lost a couple of tanks in a PC match due to what seemed like monumental frame drops.
Research lab sockets on a Spine crescent map, after about 40% of the match, my FPS went almost to zero and I was having great difficulty moving around. I made contact with a road object, the tank exploded.
Later in the same match, I was attempting to move through the depressed area by the E flag on that map configuration when the barrel of my large turret suddenly pointed straight up and the tank then exploded. All while dealing with around 6 FPS.
Additionally, railgun hit detection is the absolute worst during PC battles. Non hits, phantom markers, and even double stackers are so common that it really impedes tank v tank combat. Not sure how related it is to the low FPS in general or if it is some other factor at play. |
Cass Caul
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
96
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Posted - 2013.09.15 07:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
14 NA players + 2 EU vs 8 NA players + 8 Asia players.
Cities because 5fps
Was making an advance for a city point, got killed, then saw the shooter run around a corner to shoot me.
Edit: also, cities might be going crazy from all the forge guns, mass drivers, and grenades. |
Halfwings Warbringer
ThislsWhyimhot
44
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Posted - 2013.09.15 07:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D
it was the uplink and nanohive that make game super lag even on pub w/o team drop uplink like crazy and game start laggying badly |
Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven
74
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Posted - 2013.09.15 07:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
1.4 PC lag sucks... |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
734
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 10:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jade Hasegawa wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D It can also be our of region abuse, was playing last week on the euro zone server and the enemy teamwas full of folk from Brazil and Japan, no wonder I rubber banded allover the shop,not being racist here but when someone is that far away from aserver it is going to hurt the lag compensation and frame rate, not to mention the magic bullets that seem to go round corners as a result
You're talking about a different thing.
This thread is about client lag which means low framerate.
You're describing server lag with symptoms being rubberbanding and bad hit detection etc. |
Raven Shadowkill
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
11
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Posted - 2013.09.15 10:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Im fairly sure it due to the excess in uplinks.
The one time I experienced this it was when both teams were fightimg around one objective 10+ links on both sides, plus grenades being spammed, gunfire in all directions, and etc. At one point the frame drop disappeared. At the time I could not figure it out, but it was likely due to them pushing us off the objective; away from their links and many of our own links removed. |
Jebus McKing
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 10:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Played a PC match on Friday and in the beginning it seemed to be somewhat playable, though there is always lag for me as soon as I start playing with NA people on NA servers and voice chat is on.
(I'm from the EU and I only have 2mbit of bandwidth available.)
But later in the match performance got worse and worse. In the end whenever I was close to the objectives (and the players and deployed equipment there) frame rates dropped to ~5fps, especially inside buildings.
I'm used to the horrible performance whenever I play in PC matches but this match was just unplayable. (My first PC match in 1.4.)
But I also notice some fps drops whenever I play with a squad + voice chat in pubmatches. Not as bad as in PC matches but still noticable. There usually is no drop in performance when I play with voice chat disabled, even on NA servers. (pubmatches)
Maybe an option for a lower quality voice chat would help me get some better performance in general? |
Knight Soiaire
Better Hide R Die
2441
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP canceled our Thunderdome match last night.
I wanted to get my ass kicked in some Knife 1v1s.
 |
Zaria Min Deir
Ancient Exiles
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes, in the last couple of days there have been considerable issues with frame rate drops in pc matches. Based on what I've heard in team comms and then afterwards from members of the other teams:
1) it's always several people experiencing this at the same time, but not always the same people, when going from game to game, and not the whole team (and both EU and US people can be affected at the same time)
2) when it's occurring, it's happening to both teams at the same time (though not necessarily in equal numbers or severity)
3) doesn't seem to be tied to a specific map
4) for most people affected, the game may start smoothly (or at least tolerably), but the frame rate decreases drastically over time
not really 5) even in games where I'm not experiencing this particular type of debilitating, systematic frame rate drop, in close quarters situations with lots of explosions happening, the client performance can drop considerably, resulting in temporary bad frame rate... this however does clear up once the grenade spam ends or I move away from the area, so it is not exactly the same problem
Now, one thing all the pc matches I've observed this in the last few days have had 1 thing in common... Mix of NA and EU players on both teams... however, that shouldn't really cause client lag, should it?
(on the topic of server lag, though, haven't had any major issues in weeks, even though I am a European playing pc pretty much entirely with and against US teams... thanks for that, CCP) |
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Funkmaster Whale
Daedali Inc.
596
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 14:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
PC frame rate has always been bad, even after the supposed voice chat fixes. To tell you the truth, I didn't even notice any improvement after CCP supposedly "fixed" (aka made it impossible to mute people) voice chat. The biggest thing about PC is that it's all about quick area denial and the best way to do that is to spam the ever living hell out of uplinks/nanohives around objectives.
CCP I don't know how you guys test your maps, but in PC scenarios you typically have 3-4 dedicated Logis on top of all your Assault players dropping anywhere in the range of 3-25 uplinks per person. This means that at any given time there are literally hundreds of active equipment on the field. Now, as soon as you try and move to an area your game is struggling to render all that equipment on top of fighting players. Whatever "technical budget" you guys set is completely exceeded methinks because within a few minutes of a PC match the game goes from bearable to Microsoft PowerPoint.
This is especially notable in outposts like Biomass or Orbital Artillery. My opinion is that equipment being spammed is having a huge impact on overall performance. The ability of 1 player to spam tons of uplinks/nanohives because be can just switch fits and drop more of a different type is only exacerbated when your whole team is dedicated to doing so. I say this because the same type of lag appears in pub matches when you have players dropping tons of equipment. Granted, it doesn't happen as often in pubs but when it does it lags just as bad. Please, investigate the equipment spam. Not only does it destabilize the game gameplay wise, it creates an insane amount of lag when 100s of nanohives/uplinks are pulsing in the same area. |
Lightning xVx
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
183
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Posted - 2013.09.15 14:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D
From the PC matches I have played a number of things come into factor:
1.) Players connection/ lag/ different countries & regions.
2.) UPLINKS and Nanohives (Limit the amount on the field to 8-10, not 15-16) or radius of them smaller.
3.) Explosions
4.) City Maps
5.) Everything happening in an enclosed area. (I think this has to do with the rate of fire [ROF] from certain weapons)
6.) Possibly modded controllers/ lag switching. |
SIN MadBrute
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 15:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
There's a difference between lag and framerate drops, some of u guys should google it.
But i support that nanohives & uplinks cause framerate drops. |
virgindestroyer7
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
136
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Before, I used to be able to "manage" the lag and stil "help" out as best I could but this time its leaving me completely useless.
When I throw out a nanohive it doesn't refill my ammo. and if anyone else needs to use it the bubble is so tiny
and when I shoot people there's no hit detection. in fact, its like a neutral or blue hit detection. i see my bullets hitting them and theirs a splash but there's no damage. i think? i could be seeing things too late too. |
Funkmaster Whale
Daedali Inc.
598
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
SIN MadBrute wrote:There's a difference between lag and framerate drops, some of u guys should google it.
But i support that nanohives & uplinks cause framerate drops.
Lag is a pretty general term. There's a difference between network lag and visual lag, yes. Most people use them pretty interchangeably. I definitely think the bigger issue is frame rate loss. Considering it's a console game and you can't do anything in terms of "upgrading" to reduce performance loss it becomes pretty frustrating to deal with. |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University
Ivy League
189
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Even on public servers running solo, some things are obvious:
1) Large outposts lag*, even when nothing much is going on. It just appears to be too much geometry for the game to handle at 30 FPS.
2) Whenever I see a good squad on each team, I know that the game is going to lag. I'm not part of any of those squads, so it's not the voice coms that lag me, it must be the blobs and uplink spam as mentioned before.
3) Being near the blob is always causing lag as well.
I have never played PC yet, but the few times I've squadded up have predictably all made the situation worse. I can only imagine that the situation is even more exaggerated in PC, and frankly that kills all my interest to squad up, let alone play competitively in any form.
30 FPS is very difficult to bare to begin with, and it really isn't a sky high bar you set yourself there. The fact that the game consistently drops below this mark, often MUCH below it, is just too much for me to tolerate.
What annoys me the most is that this issue doesn't seem to be acknowledged very much. There won't be a magic bullet to suddenly make all framerate issues disappear. Unless you completely overhaul the engine, which is unlikely to happen, it will never be able to handle the geometry from the large outposts and it will always be overwhelmed by the amount of objects being rendered when two blobs battle it out.
Unless there is an obscure bug which reduces performance for many/most of us, you might never be able to fix the performance problems on the PS3 unless you take some drastic measures to reduce the amount of visible objects on screen. And the large outposts are really not acceptable either, you can't just add as much detail as you like and then say "oh well" when it doesn't meet the target framerates. If you really want to make a visuals vs. performance tradeoff, then at least give us the option to switch to low detail geometry.
Ultimately this is just really frustrating, because I play console games partly so I don't have to put up with stupid framerate issues. I'd like to see some clear acknowledgement of the problem, and at least some indication that there are plans to rectify the issue. Right now the only thing that gives me hope is the potential switch to the PS4. Please do take this seriously CCP... I don't think there is anything that would do more to improve the feel of the core mechanics than if the game would consistently run at 30 FPS.
* Whenever I say "lag" in this post, I am referring to framerate issues (visual lag), not network latency. |
Moochie Cricket
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
451
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Posted - 2013.09.15 16:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Anytime I fly a dropship in PC the framerate drops. Sometimes it is a more severe drop in framerate but there is a noticable drop the second i begin to fly. It even happens in the beginning of the match before the equipment/explosion spam begins. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3611
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
McFurious wrote:I was playing in the same PC matches as Leither today and they were laggy similar to Uprising 1.0. They were on one of the new Gallente maps and inside the city areas were the laggiest. For me the match started smoothly but quickly became laggier as the match went on. However, some players on our side were saying they experienced no lag. So I guess it's not universal.
Right after the PC matches I played on the same map but it was a pub ambush and there was no lag or hardly any. I do have 7 or 8 chat windows going but I'll have to wait until tomorrow and see if it helps to close some of them or not.
So you mean like those old super-large 5 point maps?
Didn't they find out the frame-drops in those cases were caused by a memory leak in that "blowing dust" texture? Maybe this might be related to a similar issue? |
Kazeno Rannaa
BIG BAD W0LVES
233
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Posted - 2013.09.15 17:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.
It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.
So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D
Maybe it is because your "internalized" tests are not really on the server, all of you are in the same building thereby having the same latency and ping, and your connection to the server doesn't negotiate the same number of hurdles that having two teams of 16 players apiece have to consider and negotiate? |
Zhar Ptitsaa
No Free Pass
172
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Posted - 2013.09.15 20:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
it happened to me last night, it usually happen in the city when i personally experience it. |
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