Dearest ccp it is equipment spam that causes the lag.the animation on the map mini and large, and the animation around the equipment itself is just too much when in mass, as chuncks of red equipment spam are rendered the individual starts to lag more and more.i would say though blue equipmemt does it also but not as harshly, ccp spam equipment red and blue as far as the glow cam be seen amd take a walk from one socket to another and back, and watch the lag factory work, do it with 32 ppl and half will lag and 6 will dc

Dearest ccp it is equipment spam that causes the lag.the animation on the map mini and large, and the animation around the equipment itself is just too much when in mass, as chuncks of red equipment spam are rendered the individual starts to lag more and more.i would say though blue equipmemt does it also but not as harshly, ccp spam equipment red and blue as far as the glow cam be seen amd take a walk from one socket to another and back, and watch the lag factory work, do it with 32 ppl and half will lag and 6 will dc

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

We have people looking into it, but please do keep giving feedback. Anything can be useful in tracking these type of things down.

Do you experience it more with lots of uplinks/nanohives?
When you say the city which one? There are a few of them.
Was it a full server?
Were you in a squad?
Were you on voice? If so which channels and with how many people?

To test PC lag you would need matches for 10 - 20 minutes atleast. With CCP devs on your side no match would last more than 3 minutes. Gotto even it out bro!

I will pay the 36 mil from my wallet and request a squad of devs to Play PC with US. I'll either attack Nayan San's, AE or some other CORP in a different region. I'll grab players from my CORP who live in different countries, ie; UK, AUS.... Then they can have a proper first hand experience of how an everyday PC feels like. Why people are calling it garbage and are leaving PC alone. Not calling Nayans, AE or any other CORP lag switchers or anything. Cause it isn't possible and it isn't their fault. Can't enjoy a good fight against a worthy opponent. Can't decide who is good or who isn't if the other team is handicapped with 9-10 players down (Can't move or hugging the walls) Would also ask the opponent team to do the Equipment spamming. MD and nade spamming and anything that's on the hate list

So please let us know the date and time and i'd gladly arrange it.

I will pay the 36 mil from my wallet and request a squad of devs to Play PC with US. I'll either attack Nayan San's, AE or some other CORP in a different region. I'll grab players from my CORP who live in different countries, ie; UK, AUS.... Then they can have a proper first hand experience of how an everyday PC feels like. Why people are calling it garbage and are leaving PC alone. Not calling Nayans, AE or any other CORP lag switchers or anything. Cause it isn't possible and it isn't their fault. Can't enjoy a good fight against a worthy opponent. Can't decide who is good or who isn't if the other team is handicapped with 9-10 players down (Can't move or hugging the walls) Would also ask the opponent team to do the Equipment spamming. MD and nade spamming and anything that's on the hate list

So please let us know the date and time and i'd gladly arrange it.

'LAST time'???


this is an every day, damn near ever MATCH occurrence

here's a novel idea.. initiate a spectator mode for devs to pop in on some PC matches, or find some sap that will actually let you play. on the servers we play on, not 'internal' ones...

I really had no idea you guys were so oblivious to an issue that has been at the forefront of all things PC since, o, I dunno.. May

Maybe the voice chat just takes up to much memory? I mean it's super clear, must cost alot of ram. Other games voice chat is low quality but decent frame rates.

Put 32 players on team chat and a gazzilion nanohive and uplinks . Self explanatory. Maybe the voice chat just takes up to much memory? I mean it's super clear, must cost alot of ram. Other games voice chat is low quality but decent frame rates.

It's simply happening in every PC match to seemingly random players. This includes players who restarted their entire systems immediately prior to the match.

We are putting 16 players into team chat, and we're not able to mute people because of the mic bubble bug that randomly makes it so that people who are active in voice chat on a channel don't necessarily have a voice bubble and thus can't be muted.


In terms of reproduction, though, that's the extent of it. Certainly even if the frame rate isn't soul-crushingly bad, the performance is still kinda woeful compared to your typical pub match.

Even though it prolly isn't the only reason, there's no need to have that kind of fancy-pansy soap bubble effect for hives.

CCP canceled our Thunderdome match last night.



I wanted to get my ass kicked in some Knife 1v1s.

I think the fps drops are due to overuse of nanohives & uplinks.
In PC battles they are everywhere, the game has to render that pulse they emit.
The game chugs when it has to render 50+ pulses at once.

we can ALL agree that gameplay in PC is pathetic. providing the highest competition on the game in the absolute worst conditions on the game IS what has made MANY people leave, and many more (like myself) to really not have any interest in PC

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

For reference -

10 Months ago - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTVIChCepvs

8 Months ago - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V17grt9ijrs

6 Months ago -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKlGMq-QA8w

JUST A WEEK AGO -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxip2n9VXjo

I Urge you to watch the last one. CCP your game has game breaking bugs and issues.


EDIT - Can we get any confirmation if people with SSD or Upgraded / big buffer fast 7200+ rpm hdd have this same issue?

People have been saying upgrading to SSD removes this issue, standard slow hdd may be the issue. OR rather the issue is that the game is simply asking too much of the system.

'LAST time'???


this is an every day, damn near ever MATCH occurrence

here's a novel idea.. initiate a spectator mode for devs to pop in on some PC matches, or find some sap that will actually let you play. on the servers we play on, not 'internal' ones...

I really had no idea you guys were so oblivious to an issue that has been at the forefront of all things PC since, o, I dunno.. May

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

To reiterate what my corp member had stated, we have found that there are corps out there that are abusing ping timing when fighting in PC's. We have found a member of a specific corp, i.e. kamakazi- TanKer, who has stated that he forces himself to become HOST of the PC, and adds himself and his PC mates to a "Firewall" in order to heighten the ping of the opposing side.

It would be in CCP's best interest to have a centralized PC server to have better ping timing for all members of a PC battle. We apologize for what our corp-mate had stated in the language he had used, he was very upset about this, and was talked to about his posting.

Thank you all for understanding, and good fighting!

There are a multitude of old issues associated with PC battles that have begun to crop up again:

- Very low frame rates, sometimes as low as 1FPS; Some maps are worse than others

- Players getting kicked from game while experiencing the other listed effects

- Lower frame rates in general, even when not absurd

- Higher latency even on "home" servers



If this affects you, please keep the post bumped. These issues were the reason that many players quit playing Dust with Uprising 1.0, and they really drain a lot of the fun out of PC.

o7

We have people looking into it, but please do keep giving feedback. Anything can be useful in tracking these type of things down.

Do you experience it more with lots of uplinks/nanohives?
When you say the city which one? There are a few of them.
Was it a full server?
Were you in a squad?
Were you on voice? If so which channels and with how many people?

Don't think its the internet connection. i have a 50mbps adsl connection, never had any trouble with any game and for the last few days the lag in dust has been very intence for me. Had to stop playing a few times and to tell the truth it hasn't been this bad since beta, so imo ccp needs to get there act together and fix it asap.

We had at least one member who could do nothing the entire battle to. In this case though I don't think it was from uplink/nanohive spam. It's not the only cause but it's a major one IMO. Regarding connection i'm not sure since it seems some people are more prone to it then others.

Had painfully bad lag last night in a PC vs Dark legion. The beginning half of the match was fine, but then the end half I couldn't move anywhere I had to sit it out almost. As bad as 1 FPS for sure. I was with a full team of SVER, it was around 22:00 GMT (UK time) and my details and texture is on low, there weren't that many uplinks and comms wasn't even too bad either.

?

Thanks for the heads up, I will pass this along and see if others are aware of it.

If you know others having this problem can you please get them to post here. The more people sharing will help a lot. :)

We found it to be equipment related... We had several matches in PC where we had the other side not show up. We then spammed our max equipment each mercenary could with a supply depot assistance x 16 mercenaries..

The latency and frame rate loss was felt from the inside of the city where the spam was isolated to the MCC spawn location where people where racing LAV's around.

Personally I haven't had a PC match for several patches where the frame rate and latency by the end of the match wasn't something to have to be "tolerated"
A huge reason grenade spam in PC's have become so prevalent is because they still somewhat perform under those circumstances... Where non explosive weaponry is left under performing in most circumstances.

SSD's seem to also improve the immediate performance losses others experience. for what ever technical reason I am not savy to.

A player made a comparison video between public matches and PC matches.. And from asked around is the consensus an average PC user get's when playing in those matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRUPRUJ0wIQ

If this affects you, please keep the post bumped. These issues were the reason that many players quit playing Dust with Uprising 1.0, and they really drain a lot of the fun out of PC.

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

The PC matches I've played in the past few months (not a lot) has had tolerable framerate for me. I've seen some hefty lag in pubs a couple of times, though.

Some of the times, it happened when a lot of grenade and mass driver spam was going on in a concentrated area.

The worst framerate has always been coupled to a proliferation of equipment and players in a small area. The equipment seems to be the worst sinner. On a couple of these occasions, I've seen 30 to 40 pieces of enemy equipment within a 40 meter diameter or so. Once I've cleared out about 75% of that equipment with my fluxes and stuff, the framerate has bounced right up again.

I think the best place to start while trying to fix this would be to have some sort of limitations on equipment. The equipment spam is really lame strategy-wise anyway, and increases the chances of stomping and redlining. So placing restrictions on active equipment based on general type (rather than specific model) and/or requiring them to have, say, at least 20 meters between each piece would improve gameplay in any case - and might help the framerate issues.

Also, I'd take a look at optimizing the deployed equipment itself. A nanohive, for example, has to do at least three things that might affect performance:

• Render the bubble effect
• Check if anyone is inside the bubble and have them restocked and/or repaired
• Play the sound effect

Multiply that by 30-40-50-60 within the player's immedate vicinity, and the potential for performance issues skyrockets. Maybe make nanohives not play the sound effect if there are more than 5 within a radius of x meters? Make the bubble effect slightly less demanding to render? And so on.

We have people looking into it, but please do keep giving feedback. Anything can be useful in tracking these type of things down.

Do you experience it more with lots of uplinks/nanohives?
When you say the city which one? There are a few of them.
Was it a full server?
Were you in a squad?
Were you on voice? If so which channels and with how many people?

There are a multitude of old issues associated with PC battles that have begun to crop up again:

- Very low frame rates, sometimes as low as 1FPS; Some maps are worse than others

- Players getting kicked from game while experiencing the other listed effects

- Lower frame rates in general, even when not absurd

- Higher latency even on "home" servers



If this affects you, please keep the post bumped. These issues were the reason that many players quit playing Dust with Uprising 1.0, and they really drain a lot of the fun out of PC.

o7

Yeah I agree that the new outpost really destroys performance, especially when people start throwing equipment and explosions everywhere.

I seriously think the Unreal engine just isn't optimized well enough for the PS3 because I've played online games with waaaay better graphics that don't nearly have as much frame rate lag as DUST. CCP made a bad decision (in my opinion) choosing the Unreal engine for this game. Alas...

To give proper feedback:

Performance loss persists regardless of in or out of squad. Voice chat does not affect it. Lag persists in full squad, no squad , 16v16 or anything below. Lag is exacerbated tremendously by equipment and explosions (MDs, Grenades, etc.). My input is KB/M so quick movements really feel stutter. I have an SSD installed so load time isnt the issue either. All effects set to Low in game.

Close combat is bearable but nowhere near optimal. It's definitely frame rate and not network latency because hit detection is not an issue, though actually hitting becomes difficult because of visual lag. Lag becomes worst inside Gallente Research and Orbital Artillery, less so on Biomass and Communications. Vehicles are almost always present but don't really present a difference with or without.

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

Even on public servers running solo, some things are obvious:

1) Large outposts lag*, even when nothing much is going on. It just appears to be too much geometry for the game to handle at 30 FPS.

2) Whenever I see a good squad on each team, I know that the game is going to lag. I'm not part of any of those squads, so it's not the voice coms that lag me, it must be the blobs and uplink spam as mentioned before.

3) Being near the blob is always causing lag as well.

I have never played PC yet, but the few times I've squadded up have predictably all made the situation worse. I can only imagine that the situation is even more exaggerated in PC, and frankly that kills all my interest to squad up, let alone play competitively in any form.

30 FPS is very difficult to bare to begin with, and it really isn't a sky high bar you set yourself there. The fact that the game consistently drops below this mark, often MUCH below it, is just too much for me to tolerate.

What annoys me the most is that this issue doesn't seem to be acknowledged very much. There won't be a magic bullet to suddenly make all framerate issues disappear. Unless you completely overhaul the engine, which is unlikely to happen, it will never be able to handle the geometry from the large outposts and it will always be overwhelmed by the amount of objects being rendered when two blobs battle it out.

Unless there is an obscure bug which reduces performance for many/most of us, you might never be able to fix the performance problems on the PS3 unless you take some drastic measures to reduce the amount of visible objects on screen. And the large outposts are really not acceptable either, you can't just add as much detail as you like and then say "oh well" when it doesn't meet the target framerates. If you really want to make a visuals vs. performance tradeoff, then at least give us the option to switch to low detail geometry.

Ultimately this is just really frustrating, because I play console games partly so I don't have to put up with stupid framerate issues. I'd like to see some clear acknowledgement of the problem, and at least some indication that there are plans to rectify the issue. Right now the only thing that gives me hope is the potential switch to the PS4. Please do take this seriously CCP... I don't think there is anything that would do more to improve the feel of the core mechanics than if the game would consistently run at 30 FPS.



* Whenever I say "lag" in this post, I am referring to framerate issues (visual lag), not network latency.

I played a PC match earlier, and the frame rate was downright terrible. I may have actually killed someone if it wasn't so bad (please do not take this to mean that I am blaming my lack of kills on the frame rate, I still would've sucked) but I was just completely useless.

Someone in this thread before said, "It may be because people spam uplinks and nanohives in aPC, and 50 pulses per second is a lot for it to handle." (I apologize, as I know that most of this is incorrect, but cannot recall the statement right now, and I am too lazy to find it again lol) But this match there were not as many "spammed uplinks and nano hives."

The frame rate for PC is just downright terrible. It is worse in the complexes on the certain maps that have them, but it can still be terrible on the outside as well.

This needs to be fixed.

Lag is a pretty general term. There's a difference between network lag and visual lag, yes. Most people use them pretty interchangeably. I definitely think the bigger issue is frame rate loss. Considering it's a console game and you can't do anything in terms of "upgrading" to reduce performance loss it becomes pretty frustrating to deal with.

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

I was playing in the same PC matches as Leither today and they were laggy similar to Uprising 1.0. They were on one of the new Gallente maps and inside the city areas were the laggiest. For me the match started smoothly but quickly became laggier as the match went on. However, some players on our side were saying they experienced no lag. So I guess it's not universal.

Right after the PC matches I played on the same map but it was a pub ambush and there was no lag or hardly any. I do have 7 or 8 chat windows going but I'll have to wait until tomorrow and see if it helps to close some of them or not.

There's a difference between lag and framerate drops, some of u guys should google it.
But i support that nanohives & uplinks cause framerate drops.

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

It can also be our of region abuse, was playing last week on the euro zone server and the enemy teamwas full of folk from Brazil and Japan, no wonder I rubber banded allover the shop,not being racist here but when someone is that far away from aserver it is going to hurt the lag compensation and frame rate, not to mention the magic bullets that seem to go round corners as a result

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D

It's simply happening in every PC match to seemingly random players. This includes players who restarted their entire systems immediately prior to the match.

We are putting 16 players into team chat, and we're not able to mute people because of the mic bubble bug that randomly makes it so that people who are active in voice chat on a channel don't necessarily have a voice bubble and thus can't be muted.


In terms of reproduction, though, that's the extent of it. Certainly even if the frame rate isn't soul-crushingly bad, the performance is still kinda woeful compared to your typical pub match.

Can you give us any specific reproduction steps? We had a hell of a time tracking down the lag last time and it was mostly related to voice chat. Having lots of people on voice was the biggest issue last time.

It took us a long time to figure that out, and it wasn't something we hit with our internal play tests as you guys do it differently than we do.

So yea, if you can give us any details that would be AWESOME! :D