oh now look what camp is QQing..

"the tear jar the tear jar the tear jar"

fgts crying because they're crutch is being removed.. now go tell the vets to QQ some more about aim assist- oh wait never mind. they already did and CCP saw the err in their ways.

no one will play/is playing this niche game if CCP doesnt do something about the aim bot you noobs are so in love with

They're not removing it, just nerfing it. God stop whining.

But why do we need aim assist at all?
If you miss, then you should miss. Not have the game engine compensate for your ineptitude - aww here let me do that for you. Well done!

Mollycottled generation is just that.

Pretty sure aim assistance existed in the earliest days of shooters like wolfenstein 3d and doom 1.

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

Like, for real the fact that devs are already discussing changes to Aim Assist -FOUR DAYS- after it's implemented is abyssmal..

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

Well, i really hope this time you decided to listen to commonsense.

- Aim-assist stays, all NooB weapons have to go.
- Aim-assist is remove, keep all the NooB weapons...maybe even add few more.

Except NooB weapons don't get aim assist. Splash weapons and Sniper Rifles don't get Aim Assist, in case you didn't know.

Except NooB weapons don't get aim assist. Splash weapons and Sniper Rifles don't get Aim Assist, in case you didn't know.

oh now look what camp is QQing..

"the tear jar the tear jar the tear jar"

fgts crying because they're crutch is being removed.. now go tell the vets to QQ some more about aim assist- oh wait never mind. they already did and CCP saw the err in their ways.

no one will play/is playing this niche game if CCP doesnt do something about the aim bot you noobs are so in love with

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

Thank you.

I refer you to the Kotaku articles regarding community feedback.

WoundedBum said, "I'd be interested to know how much interaction he feels a developer should have with the community during game development - obviously there needs to be communication between the two, but is it possible to have too much? Should the developers have a clear vision of what should and shouldn't be done in their game and tweak it accordingly, or should they be completely open to the communities wants and needs? It's interesting because with movies, the community has next to no input on what will be done, but with gaming it's a long development period and things can be more easily changed and affected."

Yes, it is absolutely possible to have too much community input in game development. Probably the scariest thing that can happen is that a developer will cater to the ultra-hardcore, super vocal community members. The problem is that these players usually do not represent the average player, and request things that don't appeal to most people.

For instance, we received a lot of useful feedback from the Hybrid beta. However, some things were just completely out of scope or were not what the game is about. There was someone petitioning for vehicles in the game, but that doesn't fit with Hybrid's design.

Also, during development, people don't necessarily know what they want until they see it. Henry Ford said it best: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." Ultimately community input is very important, but like anything, moderation is best. We do this for a living, so trust us to make the best game possible!

Source

Pretty sure aim assistance existed in the earliest days of shooters like wolfenstein 3d and doom 1.

Take this opportunity to further level the playing field, implement tiercide.

I would imagine tiercide will complement this new aim-assist very well, because:

Tiercide promotes ROLES which have strengths and also WEAKNESSES. This means players who play to their strengths are guaranteed improved performance, whilst not doing so leads to burning ISK for no good reason.

Since killing the enemy has always been a main objective even in Skirmish, aim assist alienates many because the style of killing has changed. Killing an enemy now comes down to position and, I daresay, teamwork and communication rather than bunny hopping and strafing.

Tiercide further pushes for this kind of play, since dropsuits are equalised. You NEED to think before making your move, or you risk dying for nothing.

But that is not how CCP does things, you want a Portable Nuclear Weapon ? No problem ! talk about it ALL the time, give lots of excuse to have one... and CCP will give you one. Why you think we are in this mess in the first place ?

Killing the enemy have always come down to who have the BIGGEST weapon...My BOON ! BOOM ! is better than yours !! And my Dropsuit is more shiny than yours !!

Aiming have NEVER been a important factor in Dust.

Aiming have NEVER been a important factor in Dust.

Having assorted devs communicating with us as they do sometimes shows their lack of communication and vision between each other. This just makes us upset and we then lose confidence that they're going to be able to do a good job.

It's not often the devs talk directly to a community that uses their product, it's usually some sort of product director. Not sure DUST 514 has one, but if it does, I think it would be good for them to be involved talking to us all the time. It's nice to have devs talk too though, don't misunderstand!

If we understood the vision for DUST 514, now and future, things like whether or not the aim-assist and other polarising gameplay mechanics or weapons are working as intended might be clearer.

I for one don't like the aim-assist, and that's because I like to be in control, not the computer. I also feel we're dying *way* too fast. That said, if DUST 514 is supposed to have it and it is working as intended, I can decide whether or not this is the sort of game I want to play knowing what it's trying to be.

---

TL;DR

DUST 514 needs a product director to be continuously communicating about the game's vision, past, present and future, and which mechanics / weapons are working as intended. That should give us confidence about where it's going.

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

That is exactly my point. What is the point on having aim-assist, when the majority of good weapons don't need aiming?

Sniper rifle doesn't counts... it have actually become a Skilled weapon. Not as easy to use as some people thinks it is.

Because splash weapons don't need Aim assist, you have noticed that Mass Drovers are less common right? They didn't even nerf the stats, they made other weapons better, which indirectly nerfed the Mass Driver.

If splash weapon got Aim Assist, they would be insanely OP.

Snipers have the same aim assist. In fact they have had it all along. There is a "drag" when they pass over an enemy that was present before 1.4. That is why snipers don't say anything about AA.

Splash weapons need AA? GTFO.

One more thing, WHAT THE F ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

---

TL;DR

DUST 514 needs a product director to be continuously communicating about the game's vision, past, present and future, and which mechanics / weapons are working as intended. That should give us confidence about where it's going.

Pretty sure aim assistance existed in the earliest days of shooters like wolfenstein 3d and doom 1.

If every FPS developer and I mean Arma, socom, vegas, BF, ext was to listen too much to it's fan base, there would not be any of those franchises.

Those games are still massively played. But it's the devs who build the arena, get into the arena, and make changes accordingly. They take in there fans feedback, BUT TO A EXTENT.


MISTAKE NUMBER ONE WAS TRYING TO KEEP ITS BETA PLAYERS. That's MMO mentality.
Not one FPS game cares a rat's ass about keeping it's beta players. That was there for testing. testing is done, well so long. Sad, but yeah.

*But your a beta player*

I'm a FPS player. and keep a knowledge that FPS games are gladiator games. I want to understand the rules, but otherwise I'm here to fight.

As a fighter, I don't beg to change the rules. But do offer suggestions. as such should always be treated as that.

It's easy to view the fact that most devs don't listen to its player base as a "con". But you sure that it's not actually a "pro?"

They wouldn't be where they are now if it was actually a "con".

A REAL CON IS HAVING A NICHE GAME WITH ONLY 2000 PLAYERS. And that's just sad.

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

I'm happy it's their.
It's made fights challenging no matter who I've faced.

People fight from behind cover. Instead of strafing around in front of each other.

For the first time in a whie, the aim assist and hit detection fixes made this game feel like a quality shooter.
I had another friend of mine decide he may start playing again today, because I told him awesome the matches are now...

If we end up going back to how things were, our blueberries will end up being useless again, and pub-stomping will go back to full strength.

I really don't want to go back to aiming before 1.4. Don't dial back anything close to what aiming was during 1.3 or before.

Many of these people b itching now, are the same ones that were qqing about how bad the aiming and hit detection was before.


Apparently, they only wanted aiming and hit detection fixes to work for them, and not the noobs they were pub-stomping.

If possible look at the metrics for how close battles are since 1.4
Or look at the metrics for KDR for the last few days if you can.

This is really something that you should just look at your metrics for.
Please, don't fall for the whining of players that don't understand that in a FPS, aiming is an equal-opportunity right.
It shouldn't take more than a couple hours for a new player to hop into a shooter and get familiar with its aiming mechanics. That's exactly what you guys have finally enabled.

Well, i really hope this time you decided to listen to commonsense.

- Aim-assist stays, all NooB weapons have to go.
- Aim-assist is remove, keep all the NooB weapons...maybe even add few more.

Pretty sure aim assistance existed in the earliest days of shooters like wolfenstein 3d and doom 1.

Whoa!

You want Mintchip dropping "Cheer Ups!" in response to our every suggestion and concern!?

If you ask for a product director, you're gonna get PR . And the Devs that make sh*t happen ... we'll never see or hear from them again. I kinda like how each of the Devs (like Logic Loop) responds to suggestions and feedback relevant to his role.

Not to say your idea is a poor one, Duncan. Simply playing devil's advocate.

- Shotty

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

Thank you.

I refer you to the Kotaku articles regarding community feedback.

WoundedBum said, "I'd be interested to know how much interaction he feels a developer should have with the community during game development - obviously there needs to be communication between the two, but is it possible to have too much? Should the developers have a clear vision of what should and shouldn't be done in their game and tweak it accordingly, or should they be completely open to the communities wants and needs? It's interesting because with movies, the community has next to no input on what will be done, but with gaming it's a long development period and things can be more easily changed and affected."

Yes, it is absolutely possible to have too much community input in game development. Probably the scariest thing that can happen is that a developer will cater to the ultra-hardcore, super vocal community members. The problem is that these players usually do not represent the average player, and request things that don't appeal to most people.

For instance, we received a lot of useful feedback from the Hybrid beta. However, some things were just completely out of scope or were not what the game is about. There was someone petitioning for vehicles in the game, but that doesn't fit with Hybrid's design.

Also, during development, people don't necessarily know what they want until they see it. Henry Ford said it best: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." Ultimately community input is very important, but like anything, moderation is best. We do this for a living, so trust us to make the best game possible!

Source

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

The ONLY people complaining about the Aim Assist are "wanna-be" proto-stompers.

The true pub-stompers are still stomping, don't need proto to do it, and have nothing to complain about.
The newer players are happy that they can hit targets in a panic.

You have this segment of players that somehow feel that their mastery of broken aiming mechanics is a mark of skill...
...as if they're entitled to play recklessly and not get shot. It blows my mind, how crooked their reasoning is.

This is the thing I don't understand.


Why say that it give skilled players an unfair advantage or it makes them more OP...? That doesn't make any sense - in fact, it has nothing to do with Aim Assist, if they were skilled before they're still going to be skilled.

Try turning it on for yourself and give it a shot, it's not like the option isn't there for you. According to that logic, the only thing it's going to do is make you a better player.

So in your opinion, all Mass Drivers, Forge Guns, Tanks, Grenades, and installations needs to go? Thanks. I'm glad you're not one of CCP's design team.

Just adding a better counter

Just adding a link that I think is relevant to this thread and hopefolly to CCP also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w&list=LLRPnCh1W4oujblWxjFnWPmg

I recommend for people to watch the whole video as it is really interesting.. But at 2:30 that is the part that I feel that is the most interesting.

Hmm, I don't recall having aim assist. Might have to boot it up and see.

Well, i really hope this time you decided to listen to commonsense.

- Aim-assist stays, all NooB weapons have to go.
- Aim-assist is remove, keep all the NooB weapons...maybe even add few more.

If every FPS developer and I mean Arma, socom, vegas, BF, ext was to listen too much to it's fan base, there would not be any of those franchises.

Those games are still massively played. But it's the devs who build the arena, get into the arena, and make changes accordingly. They take in there fans feedback, BUT TO A EXTENT.


MISTAKE NUMBER ONE WAS TRYING TO KEEP ITS BETA PLAYERS. That's MMO mentality.
Not one FPS game cares a rat's ass about keeping it's beta players. That was there for testing. testing is done, well so long. Sad, but yeah.

*But your a beta player*

I'm a FPS player. and keep a knowledge that FPS games are gladiator games. I want to understand the rules, but otherwise I'm here to fight.

As a fighter, I don't beg to change the rules. But do offer suggestions. as such should always be treated as that.

It's easy to view the fact that most devs don't listen to its player base as a "con". But you sure that it's not actually a "pro?"

They wouldn't be where they are now if it was actually a "con".

A REAL CON IS HAVING A NICHE GAME WITH ONLY 2000 PLAYERS. And that's just sad.

I just hope they still leave a little for the Laser Rifle AT LONG RANGES.

It can be a pain to mantain the laser on someone AT ITS OPTIMAL DAMAGE RANGE for more than 2-4 seconds to get some damage in... : /

OVer than at Optimal range i dont care a lot for aim assist anyways either.... (specially with weapons taht can already spray)
but you remove the AA, you get mass drivers again.so i don t know...)

They really need to take another look at it's fall off range...

AR Optimal: 40m
Falloff - well up to 100m

Laser Rifle Optimal: Around 65-70 if memory serves
Laser Rifle Falloff: 90m

100m+ and the Laser Rifle just dies in damage dealing. Anything less than optimal is the same way. Seems a little ridiculous imo.

We use sight lines, the rule set I discussed earlier, and general layouts to encourage effective game play from each role. Strategy and tactics entails using logic, and planning, coordination with others, effective dropsuit fittings, and weapons load-outs. What we are encouraging is "thinking".

ITT

Baddies who couldn't get a kill in 1.3 defend aimbot assist like it's their firstborn.

We are not making decisions on aim assist yet. But we are discussing your feedback.

Like, for real the fact that devs are already discussing changes to Aim Assist -FOUR DAYS- after it's implemented is abyssmal.

Honestly, why is it that we don't even have time to get used to certain things before we pull the plug on them? Tactical Assault Rifles had three weeks.

For real dude, it's insanely annoying when people complain on the forums about something being under-powered, it gets buffed and all of a sudden it's OP - to which we immediately pull the plug on it before anyone even has the opportunity to made legitimate comments instead of knee jerk QQ reactions.

You CANNOT accurately balance something unless you give it time to settle - you're just going to fluctuate between breaking things over and over again; bouncing back and forth between under powered and over powered until you maybe accidentally get it correctly three months later.

What does this solve, exactly, save for making a few terrible players happy?

Because it's not just Dust 514 that has this phenomenon.

Call of Duty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT2fuXnmNbQ
- Forum post: http://www.callofduty.com/thread/200733582#.UizwgsZwo7Y

Battlefield 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxiECgBWAA
- Forum Post: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490116884663/

Halo Reach (cross hair off): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYrZvRy8x0w

Get real, it's like this in every game - only the players of Dust 514 know that the Devs will listen if they yell at their mailbox loud enough.

Before 1.4 - Some had good aim, others had poor aim. As a scout escape was a tactical option.

After 1.4 with aim assist - Virtually everyone is now a keen ranged marksman and can track like no other up close. HP tank is now much preferable over speed.

Now if we could strike a balance in-between that would be great.

Aim assist isn't the disease, it's a symptom.

Scouts were broken long before Aim Assist ever came into the picture but it certainly drove a long nail into the coffin of speed tanking.

They needed to implement cloaking ages ago - needed to buff Scouts ages ago - they needed to do -SOMETHING- ages ago. Now, Scouts can't even be considered a factor when balancing other things, especially not Aim Assist. A long time ago I did the math on tracking and proved that it was absolutely impossible to out-strafe another player at any range, even with a scout. So, unless you're sprinting out of their tracking range to get a microsecond firing window, it's a pointless endeavor no matter what.

They only thing they have going for them anymore is stealth and with TacNet gone, Active Scanners are taking precedence - meaning that it's far more difficult to successfully be "stealthy" on the field. Despite this, Logistics and Assault suits are more capable to do so as they have extended slot layouts which allow them to fit more complex profile dampeners and still retain a measure of survivability without sacrificing anything.

To top it off the bonuses are nigh useless, reduced profile isn't that big of a difference (as explained before) and the Gallente scout's increased scan range only works for him now that TacNet is gone.

Suffice to say, the best thing for the Scout at this point would be to just outright remove it and reimburse the SP to players so that they can explore other options. It's going to take months to get it into a feasible position and at that point we'll have seen the Pilot drop suit which would be a more prominent role for the frame.

Dumb video. If you made every game an equal playing feild the noobs would be REQUIRED to get better because they would have no choice. Things that make "skill" easier, are things that RUIN the ability for noobs to get better anyway.

When I played SOCOM, I didn't complain when I got raped, I simply tried 10x as hard to be come better, watched the best players play while I was dead and over time, became a Tier0 player myself. Noobing crap (aim- assist, noob-tubes, etc.), like welfare, only helps to further enslave the noobs to a life of perpetual mediocrity. MAN UP and grow your skills.

I couldn't agree more. I remember lots of request back in chromosome to give scouts a bit more CPU/PG so they can benefit from their 6 H/L slots. Well CCPs solution was to remove 1 slot H/L + 1 Equipmentslot.

Now regarding the bonus, the 5% profiledampening isn't all that bad and the 5% damage boost to Nova knifes is nice but highly situational. The scanradius bonus of the gallente was a bad joke right from the beginning because every suit started with 10 m scanradius. Now with the removal of teamview CCP completely removed the role of the gallente scout as he can't get any use of his crappy bonus. Now there is no longer any benefit...from beeing a scout

I was complaining about how sniping doesn't work the same way anymore.
Here's what CCP LogicLoop told me, and as much as it bugs me to admit, he/she was 100% correct:


We were discussing sniping, but it's interesting to note that "each role" was said.
You need to "think more" when you go into a fight now, and this definitely applies to VETERAN players.
Basically, ALL of us, need to HTFU.

The old ways of running matches are gone, and GOOD riddance.
Snipers don't have total domination over certain maps anymore. + Assaults don't have the freedom to run around in the open and strafe shoot with reckless abandon anymore.

Two things that were breaking the game for a lot of people have been fixed.

And isn't a thinking shooter what everyone was after to begin with?
I personally don't care about AA either way, all I care about is the end result being more emphasis on strategy and forcing the effective use of cover for survival.

Snipers have the same aim assist. In fact they have had it all along. There is a "drag" when they pass over an enemy that was present before 1.4. That is why snipers don't say anything about AA.

Splash weapons need AA? GTFO.

One more thing, WHAT THE F ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Suffice to say, the best thing for the Scout at this point would be to just outright remove it and reimburse the SP to players so that they can explore other options. It's going to take months to get it into a feasible position and at that point we'll have seen the Pilot drop suit which would be a more prominent role for the frame.

Like, for real the fact that devs are already discussing changes to Aim Assist -FOUR DAYS- after it's implemented is abyssmal.

Honestly, why is it that we don't even have time to get used to certain things before we pull the plug on them? Tactical Assault Rifles had three weeks.

For real dude, it's insanely annoying when people complain on the forums about something being under-powered, it gets buffed and all of a sudden it's OP - to which we immediately pull the plug on it before anyone even has the opportunity to made legitimate comments instead of knee jerk QQ reactions.

You CANNOT accurately balance something unless you give it time to settle - you're just going to fluctuate between breaking things over and over again; bouncing back and forth between under powered and over powered until you maybe accidentally get it correctly three months later.

What does this solve, exactly, save for making a few terrible players happy?

Because it's not just Dust 514 that has this phenomenon.

Call of Duty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT2fuXnmNbQ
- Forum post: http://www.callofduty.com/thread/200733582#.UizwgsZwo7Y

Battlefield 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxiECgBWAA
- Forum Post: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490116884663/

Halo Reach (cross hair off): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYrZvRy8x0w

Get real, it's like this in every game - only the players of Dust 514 know that the Devs will listen if they yell at their mailbox loud enough.

@celesta. You do know that this will never be a free roaming game right? Game is already made. and anything added to it, will be in the confines of a.... wait for it... LOBBY SHOOTER. You can P.I.S.S. in the cup all you want, but it will never taste like apple juice.


But right now This is the player number count

*but school started!*

Yeah.. just like "It's summer" It's almost fall now. then what reasons will people use for the player count?

2000 player niche game. eve players will have their wish.


Winter is coming lads. And for dust it's going to be a long cold one. But to those that will stay to bare it, may the force be with you.

It's funny, we get a good mechanic like strafing (by accident) and everyone raised hell for a hot fix. When we get a powerful aim-assist and hit boxes the size of barns, you want things to settle. Pathetic.

You can't out-Call of Duty Call of Duty.

But why do we need aim assist at all?
If you miss, then you should miss. Not have the game engine compensate for your ineptitude - aww here let me do that for you. Well done!

Mollycottled generation is just that.

You've obviously never sniped in this game before. Either stop making a fool of yourself or show me an exact quote where CCP said the sniper rifle has AA.

So we should remove aim assist then?

Aeon,

What say you to substantially increased recoil and dispersion for automatic ARs?

I understand doing so wouldn't fit your request to "leave things sit", but I'm interested in your opinion on how one might bring into balance Assault Rifles if aim-assist were to be held constant.

Thanks,
Shotty

Cover and thinking shooters are few in existence - twitch shooters already exist and you cannot compete them.

You can't out-Call of Duty Call of Duty.

I don't think you understand what side of the argument I'm on...

You would be slaughtered by mouse and keyboard

Mouse and Keyboard is going to slaughter you ? and me thinking that people played this game.

For the last time... A mouse and a Keyboard are Tools, that "everyone" in the game can use. You don't need lots of SP, or AUR, or lots of real cash, you don't need to be special, or a VIP, you don't need a different Console, or any extra equipment.

I just a ******* device that you can plug in your PS3, and use it.

Exactly. Everyone I know that plays Dust 514 with Mouse and Keyboard says using it in 1.4 is absolutely terrible but then again, it's always been terrible. I tried it but honestly it still feels.... Bleh.

People forgets exactly that, mouse support in Dust have NEVER been right. It's just that some people got used to it faster than others ( for whatever reasons, not discussing that ) the same way as some people are better with the DS3 than others.

.
.
OP POST
.
.

If there's a secret, let me know. I'd like to get back to MKB at some point.

DPS per Weapon:

Duvolle AR: 467.5
Carthum ASR: 465.69

http://i.imgur.com/4QNoPGN.png

But, to answer your question directly in regards to increasing the dispersion and recoil of the weapon? No, I don't think that it's the way to go because it's not going to hallmark on the weapon's strengths and weaknesses. It needs to have low range in exchange for high firepower and right now it's got the high firepower aspect down - it just needs it's range bumped down a bit to pave the way for other weapons.