Your new maps are totally sniper unfriendly. No high points, most facilities have fences on the roof and around the building. So snipers have to find a spot where they can watch for targets, because a sniper rifle is absolutely no good as an assault weapon, and the scout suits are so weak, in shield and armor.

Now add on to this that we have to actually take a step, or fire our weapon, which can give away our position because just scanning an area zooming in and out looking for a target trips the "TACNET sessions will expire if no action is taken" and if we see something coming through the buildings (so we don't want to give away our position) we are kicked out!

This is absolutely **! I played a long time to get to lvl 5 scout so I could use it for sniping. A LOT of time and also money to try to have something to enjoy playing the game.

What a waste. If I could, I would want all my money that I put into the game back, and would even like to get paid for the wasted time.

Please do something about this timer, at least for snipers. You created the suit, yet you continuously ignore the pleads of those using the scout suit - but you gladly listen to and respond to everyone who cries about afk'rs and the op sniper. A scout (especially a sniper using a scout suit) needs to be able to use the equipment that you make them work so hard to try to get leveled into, yet is then crippled even more by whiners that you listen to and want to take care of - not thinking about those of us that need to lay still, or move slowly.

Addendum: Not fair that you add any deaths to my count, but not the kills if I leave or am kicked trying to snipe. If Imust loose equipment and have that death tallied, then I should also get credit for any kills.

UP AND WAIT UNTIL YOU GET MORE MAPS THAT DO SUPPORT SNIPERS.

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in there movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in their movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

Your new maps are totally sniper unfriendly. No high points, most facilities have fences on the roof and around the building. So snipers have to find a spot where they can watch for targets, because a sniper rifle is absolutely no good as an assault weapon, and the scout suits are so weak, in shield and armor.

Now add on to this that we have to actually take a step, or fire our weapon, which can give away our position because just scanning an area zooming in and out looking for a target trips the "TACNET sessions will expire if no action is taken" and if we see something coming through the buildings (so we don't want to give away our position) we are kicked out!

This is absolutely **! I played a long time to get to lvl 5 scout so I could use it for sniping. A LOT of time and also money to try to have something to enjoy playing the game.

What a waste. If I could, I would want all my money that I put into the game back, and would even like to get paid for the wasted time.

Please do something about this timer, at least for snipers. You created the suit, yet you continuously ignore the pleads of those using the scout suit - but you gladly listen to and respond to everyone who cries about afk'rs and the op sniper. A scout (especially a sniper using a scout suit) needs to be able to use the equipment that you make them work so hard to try to get leveled into, yet is then crippled even more by whiners that you listen to and want to take care of - not thinking about those of us that need to lay still, or move slowly.

Addendum: Not fair that you add any deaths to my count, but not the kills if I leave or am kicked trying to snipe. If Imust loose equipment and have that death tallied, then I should also get credit for any kills.

right.... some how i don't believe that is true with the older maps, maybe with the newer ones to some degree or another but its not really snipers that worry me its the forge gunners using then like sniper rifles to stop any and all hacks on objectives.

You are correct. These rules were put in place as we started the development of the Research Facility. What you are seeing is the transition to these new hard requirements. Eventually all sockets will have this put into place.

You are correct. These rules were put in place as we started the development of the Research Facility. What you are seeing is the transition to these new hard requirements. Eventually all sockets will have this put into place.

We have goon confirmation that the AFK system can be defeated with a rubber band.

that is all. snipers are safe.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

Im gonna get lynched for this, but dude, this is care-bear tier of balance.
This is just wrong on so many levels.

maybe but alot of care-bearing was done and not all of it bad, just the important things. do you like the tower squad standing around FG objective preventing anything less then an multiple orbital strike to dislodge them? i know that gets old fast.

Id that that over 6 aimbot-DuvCalLogi in CQB.

You are correct. These rules were put in place as we started the development of the Research Facility. What you are seeing is the transition to these new hard requirements. Eventually all sockets will have this put into place.

You created the suit, yet you continuously ignore the pleads of those using the scout suit - but you gladly listen to and respond to everyone who cries about afk'rs and the op sniper. A scout (especially a sniper using a scout suit) needs to be able to use the equipment that you make them work so hard to try to get leveled into, yet is then crippled even more by whiners that you listen to and want to take care of - not thinking about those of us that need to lay still, or move slowly.

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in their movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

I've spent 14mil sp into a scout and feel as I am militia grade. I've spent frustrating hours trying to compete, I seriously have to try hard. I don't use ARs I don't use grenades, not the MD. As you can see there is a knifing community, so fix our knives. The only sure kills are ppl standing still. You are killing me CCP, you are killing me over and over.

Your new maps are totally sniper unfriendly. No high points, most facilities have fences on the roof and around the building. So snipers have to find a spot where they can watch for targets, because a sniper rifle is absolutely no good as an assault weapon, and the scout suits are so weak, in shield and armor.

Now add on to this that we have to actually take a step, or fire our weapon, which can give away our position because just scanning an area zooming in and out looking for a target trips the "TACNET sessions will expire if no action is taken" and if we see something coming through the buildings (so we don't want to give away our position) we are kicked out!

This is absolutely **! I played a long time to get to lvl 5 scout so I could use it for sniping. A LOT of time and also money to try to have something to enjoy playing the game.

What a waste. If I could, I would want all my money that I put into the game back, and would even like to get paid for the wasted time.

Please do something about this timer, at least for snipers. You created the suit, yet you continuously ignore the pleads of those using the scout suit - but you gladly listen to and respond to everyone who cries about afk'rs and the op sniper. A scout (especially a sniper using a scout suit) needs to be able to use the equipment that you make them work so hard to try to get leveled into, yet is then crippled even more by whiners that you listen to and want to take care of - not thinking about those of us that need to lay still, or move slowly.

Addendum: Not fair that you add any deaths to my count, but not the kills if I leave or am kicked trying to snipe. If Imust loose equipment and have that death tallied, then I should also get credit for any kills.

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in their movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

Im gonna get lynched for this, but dude, this is care-bear tier of balance.
This is just wrong on so many levels.

First off, I'm confused why a whine about anti-AFK measures, has a first post that has virutally no mention of AFK, but keeps whining about what a lousy sniper the OP is.

but anyway, back to the AFK issue: totally broken, **BY DESIGN**.
The design is inherently broken. So long as you keep making it possible for a player to passively get SP, just for existing, there will be ways to game it.

Yesterday, I saw some bozo, who had rigged his char to just repeatedly jump up and down, firing at a wall.
Fairly easy to do.

The only real fixes:

1. No passive SP gain while you are behind your own redline.
This is the minimum change that will actually do something

2. no passive SP gain at all. Make it so you only gain SP for combat related actions.
ie: expending bullets ON A TARGET. Not just "firing your weapon in the air".
Taking damage should also continue to count towards SP.
Then, INCREASE the amount of SP that these things give you.

Benefits of this system:
These would be even more newb friendly: many newbs cant actually get a kill, but do manage to get a few bullets on target before they die.

Additionaly, it would drastically cut down on redline sniping.
Which in one way is good, but in another way is bad. More maps need to have 400m out locations. 300-400m is the appropriate deployment distance for a sniper.
Some of the smaller maps, the only way you can get 400m out, is to go into redline.

First off, I'm confused why a whine about anti-AFK measures, has a first post that has virutally no mention of AFK, but keeps whining about what a lousy sniper the OP is.

but anyway, back to the AFK issue: totally broken, **BY DESIGN**.
The design is inherently broken. So long as you keep making it possible for a player to passively get SP, just for existing, there will be ways to game it.

Yesterday, I saw some bozo, who had rigged his char to just repeatedly jump up and down, firing at a wall.
Fairly easy to do.

The only real fixes:

1. No passive SP gain while you are behind your own redline.
This is the minimum change that will actually do something

2. no passive SP gain at all. Make it so you only gain SP for combat related actions.
ie: expending bullets ON A TARGET. Not just "firing your weapon in the air".
Taking damage should also continue to count towards SP.
Then, INCREASE the amount of SP that these things give you.

Benefits of this system:
These would be even more newb friendly: many newbs cant actually get a kill, but do manage to get a few bullets on target before they die.

Additionaly, it would drastically cut down on redline sniping.
Which in one way is good, but in another way is bad. More maps need to have 400m out locations. 300-400m is the appropriate deployment distance for a sniper.
Some of the smaller maps, the only way you can get 400m out, is to go into redline.

Then HARDEN THE **** UP AND WAIT UNTIL YOU GET MORE MAPS THAT DO SUPPORT SNIPERS.

Where snipers fail, and I see this more than I see the previous two, is running out, redlining, and then trying to get a "big kill count! FTW!" when it isn't the objective, they aren't helping their team, and all they manage to do is annoy those that are actually playing.

Sniping should have a purpose beyond getting a kill count.

Yeah, right! Its people like you that make the game no longer fun. I've seen your other posts and see that you like bragging yourself up while telling others to get better.

Im gonna get lynched for this, but dude, this is care-bear tier of balance.
This is just wrong on so many levels.

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in their movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

You are correct. These rules were put in place as we started the development of the Research Facility. What you are seeing is the transition to these new hard requirements. Eventually all sockets will have this put into place.

The afk fix works just a little too well . I was out on squad 2 days ago and one of my squad mates had to answer his phone and by the time he got back he was booted allong with his tank. Only gone for a few mins not long really.

Your new maps are totally sniper unfriendly. No high points, most facilities have fences on the roof and around the building. So snipers have to find a spot where they can watch for targets, because a sniper rifle is absolutely no good as an assault weapon, and the scout suits are so weak, in shield and armor.

Now add on to this that we have to actually take a step, or fire our weapon, which can give away our position because just scanning an area zooming in and out looking for a target trips the "TACNET sessions will expire if no action is taken" and if we see something coming through the buildings (so we don't want to give away our position) we are kicked out!

This is absolutely **! I played a long time to get to lvl 5 scout so I could use it for sniping. A LOT of time and also money to try to have something to enjoy playing the game.

What a waste. If I could, I would want all my money that I put into the game back, and would even like to get paid for the wasted time.

Please do something about this timer, at least for snipers. You created the suit, yet you continuously ignore the pleads of those using the scout suit - but you gladly listen to and respond to everyone who cries about afk'rs and the op sniper. A scout (especially a sniper using a scout suit) needs to be able to use the equipment that you make them work so hard to try to get leveled into, yet is then crippled even more by whiners that you listen to and want to take care of - not thinking about those of us that need to lay still, or move slowly.

Addendum: Not fair that you add any deaths to my count, but not the kills if I leave or am kicked trying to snipe. If Imust loose equipment and have that death tallied, then I should also get credit for any kills.

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in their movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

I tested the afk system today.

The only reason it will trigger that message is if you are not moving. Just move side to side occasionally and it shouldn't show up.

-- snipped, not sniped -- .

For the sniping rules. Remember. This applies to sockets only.

For those believing we need a better system where players are the solution to snipers, we also believe this. Game design will be working something for this out eventually. I have discussed this before on IRC at least and possibly here on the forums. The design team would like to come up with something effective that makes the players a part of that experience. For example, and I stress this is an "example" idea only. A player can laser sight a sniper location allowing other players to more easily hit a sniping location with mortars.

With that being said, take into consideration again, the rule only applies to sockets. With height variations in terrain, and sockets sitting on various heights, other variously sized objects on the terrain not inside actual sockets, and the variations of terrain in of its self, the snipers have plenty of locations to snipe from still.

Sniper - definition "a marksman who shoots at people from a concealed place"

1. This can't be done anymore at long range because of your new parameters.
2. The actual operation of the sniper rifle in-game prevents it from being used effectively at closer ranges.
3. Once spotted, the sniper is always within range of other weapons. Sniper survivability plummets by this.
4. The sniper rifle needs the ability to engage combatants at mid-range mobility combat, in order to compete with the current rules.

It can be done. Use tactics, use strategy, coordinate with your team / squad, and find good locations. Strategy, tactics, teamwork.

It can be done. Use tactics, use strategy, coordinate with your team / squad, and find good locations. Strategy, tactics, teamwork.

Sniper teams were already doing that.

The new design principle is penalizing this, I've you clearly stated.

Good snipers were hurt more by this than bad ones.
The forge sniping was the problem, not general sniper positioning.

What's done is done. Sniping is dead.

This is the direction that leadership wants this, because they have a vision of what the game play is to be for every role

Honestly, they should just change the redline mechanic so that they still exist, but friendlies have 30 seconds to a minute to exit it. Once they leave the redline, it applies the same timer to friendlies as well as enemies (same way it works for enemies now). This ensures that people have a safe place to be dropped in but a hostile place to stay.

While you may think we are trying to prevent you from playing your role, we are not. You do not even know the actual meter count, or ranges that make up the rules. You only know that we have taken measures to ensure snipers are not in mass dominating an entire map (like Manus Peak).

This is the direction that leadership wants this, because they have a vision of what the game play is to be for every role, and how each role supports one another. The sniper is not dead.

Our goal, and it has been achieved with this socket set, is preventing entire areas from being completely dominated by snipers. Biomass and Communications is another great example. Where the only access to those top areas is a dropship, and an army of snipers reside there. Dominating an entire outpost. This is not "fun" for the people who are playing the game the way we intended it to be played.

We use sight lines, the rule set I discussed earlier, and general layouts to encourage effective game play from each role. Strategy and tactics entails using logic, and planning, coordination with others, effective dropsuit fittings, and weapons load-outs. What we are encouraging is "thinking".

You can still snipe, you can still be useful to your team. If you so desire to try and play with your squads and other players in an effective way.

Good post is good. I'm all for snipers, and as a non-sniper and I have *definitely* seen an improvement in accessibility to enemy snipers when I need to go hunt them down.

Just means they'll need to be on their toes. Maybe invest in dropsuit scan skills, and stay alert to their radars. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm fairly sure that's what he meant by "thinking".

Snipers aren't dead. No risk/low risk snipers are dead. And good riddance.

High risk snipers = useless snipers.

That "improvement" in just how easily you can reach them is proof of that.

No one gives a fk about balance. As long as they don't get sniped anymore.

This is the direction that leadership wants this, because they have a vision of what the game play is to be for every role.

For the sniping rules. Remember. This applies to sockets only.

For those believing we need a better system where players are the solution to snipers, we also believe this. Game design will be working something for this out eventually. I have discussed this before on IRC at least and possibly here on the forums. The design team would like to come up with something effective that makes the players a part of that experience. For example, and I stress this is an "example" idea only. A player can laser sight a sniper location allowing other players to more easily hit a sniping location with mortars.

With that being said, take into consideration again, the rule only applies to sockets. With height variations in terrain, and sockets sitting on various heights, other variously sized objects on the terrain not inside actual sockets, and the variations of terrain in of its self, the snipers have plenty of locations to snipe from still.

For the sniping rules. Remember. This applies to sockets only.

For those believing we need a better system where players are the solution to snipers, we also believe this. Game design will be working something for this out eventually. I have discussed this before on IRC at least and possibly here on the forums. The design team would like to come up with something effective that makes the players a part of that experience. For example, and I stress this is an "example" idea only. A player can laser sight a sniper location allowing other players to more easily hit a sniping location with mortars.

With that being said, take into consideration again, the rule only applies to sockets. With height variations in terrain, and sockets sitting on various heights, other variously sized objects on the terrain not inside actual sockets, and the variations of terrain in of its self, the snipers have plenty of locations to snipe from still.

Your new maps are totally sniper unfriendly. No high points, most facilities have fences on the roof and around the building. So snipers have to find a spot where they can watch for targets, because a sniper rifle is absolutely no good as an assault weapon, and the scout suits are so weak, in shield and armor.

Now add on to this that we have to actually take a step, or fire our weapon, which can give away our position because just scanning an area zooming in and out looking for a target trips the "TACNET sessions will expire if no action is taken" and if we see something coming through the buildings (so we don't want to give away our position) we are kicked out!

This is absolutely **! I played a long time to get to lvl 5 scout so I could use it for sniping. A LOT of time and also money to try to have something to enjoy playing the game.

What a waste. If I could, I would want all my money that I put into the game back, and would even like to get paid for the wasted time.

Please do something about this timer, at least for snipers. You created the suit, yet you continuously ignore the pleads of those using the scout suit - but you gladly listen to and respond to everyone who cries about afk'rs and the op sniper. A scout (especially a sniper using a scout suit) needs to be able to use the equipment that you make them work so hard to try to get leveled into, yet is then crippled even more by whiners that you listen to and want to take care of - not thinking about those of us that need to lay still, or move slowly.

Addendum: Not fair that you add any deaths to my count, but not the kills if I leave or am kicked trying to snipe. If Imust loose equipment and have that death tallied, then I should also get credit for any kills.

Our goal, and it has been achieved with this socket set, is preventing entire areas from being completely dominated by snipers. Biomass and Communications is another great example. Where the only access to those top areas is a dropship, and an army of snipers reside there. Dominating an entire outpost. This is not "fun" for the people who are playing the game the way we intended it to be played.

might i suggest the option to carry a module to pop the scope off and turn it to a 3 round AR (assault rifle not armalite)

I don't have as much a problem with the high up snipers as I do the redline guys. They **** me off. Can you make it so they don't get credit for kills behind the redline?

Or, much simpler.. just GIVE US A SIGHT MARKER for hipfire, like EVERY SINGLE OTHER WEAPON?!?!!?!?!
A Tac variant sniper rifle is somewhat useful from hip. (even a regular one, but less so). I have very rarely managed to save myself with some "no-scope" action, but it would be much more frequent with a sight marker.

(Hmm... tac rifle, with hip fire aim assist. OOOooohhh... i think some people might like to actually spec into sniper rifle for that )

Yay, hipfire crosshairs for sniper rifles! Now we can have charged rifles no-scope OHKing people all match every match! That's just what we've been needing!

Allow me to quote myself from another sniper thread:

Hm.. "The Force (of sarcasm) is strong with this one.."

Let me point out first of all, that "charged" and "hipfire" dont really go well together.

But if you insist that this is a thing, and would be bad... the only "solution" to that, would be to disable hipfire entirely.
(which would be Very Wrong)

Currently, people who really want to abuse this sort of thing (and dang it, now I'm one of them! ) can do it already.
They can make their own "reticule" and use it. Just a small neon sticky-fragment stuck to your monitor works Real Gud.

Do what I do when I snipe. Use an Caldari assault suit, sniper rifle and carry an SMG that you have fairly leveled up. Pull out the SMG while traveling, travel with teammates in case of a firefight, find a spot at ground level or with moderate elevation, take a few shots, move on. Just repeat the process. The bonus is that most people don't look for snipers at ground level so you have a little bit of an element of surprise. Not only that, but you might even get a few SMG kills while moving from point to point.

i'm not sure how it happened but during one match I had a single black dot on my screen where my reticule would normally be, I thought I had a dead pixel, but It worked as a reticule and it didn't help much at all, if you hip-fire a sniper rifle it has a massive spread.

But what was your sniper skill? Methinks 0 or 1.
Remember that sniper rifles have a lot of sway at low skill levels. I'm wondering if spread is less at higher levels.
Will have to check this out tonight.

PS to Blind Shot:
"run and gun snipers", aka short range snipers, shouldnt be carrying sniper rifles. they should use scrambler rifles.

Charged shot when convenient (and great OHK headshot capability), or 6-8 rapidfire burst WITH AUTO-AIM when not.

Well boys, dedicated sniper here.

I think some of you know me because I'm on so many of your in-game hate-mail lists (it comes with the territory when you are a sniper).

Lots of the hackable stuff is inside the new sockets, on top of structures, underground or on hills. It's dangerous enough for snipers to hack the old types of objectives because when we do it we are behind the action with no-one to cover us. Now it is a bit more of a gamble because I have to run up or down stairs and around corners.

Well boys, dedicated sniper here.

I think some of you know me because I'm on so many of your in-game hate-mail lists (it comes with the territory when you are a sniper).

I'd like to offer a few thoughts.

I believe one of the best solutions to the sniper problem is to move the redlines out, so they they overlap more. I'm not a fan of redline sniping myself. It seems unsporting and artificial. Anyone in the game should be able to CQC me when I'm sniping. Also, make playable areas bigger on the old maps. Man, I'd love to get behind an enemy team and snipe them from an unexpected direction. Big risk to me but potential big payoff for my team.

Maps where the CQC is in a bowl completely surrounded by mountains are bad, bad, bad, in my opinion. Some broken terrain with hills or outcrops here and there would be better. A few maps have stretches of terrain like this but there are no objectives on them. These areas are wasted space.

The absolute best defence against sniping is counter-sniping. A ton of my kills are other snipers. It is a whole meta-game in itself. I love it when the guys in my corp ask me to hunt one down. Or when two snipers know each other are out there and it becomes a grudge match interspersed with sniping the red CQC guys.

A second excellent defence against snipers are scouts with shotguns. Or anyone who cares to walk over to me with any weapon. I'm usually always scoped in. Boom! Sniper paste.

I haven't found any ladders or otherwise climbable tall features on the new maps and there are lots of wide open spaces. There may be some perches but I can't control the map rotations to give myself a chance to find them. This doesn't mean I'll give up looking, though. The dropship solution is not a bad one but unless the pilot is on comms I can't ask to be let off on a building or mountain. He may not even realize I'm a sniper. And let's be honest, blueberry dropships are usually a place where you wait around, doing nothing before you die.

Lots of the new sockets are completely enclosed. This is ok but many of the doors, entrances and areas around them are hidden or are impossible to see from large parts (and often all parts) of the map. I guess this means I can't cover my team when they jump in for a hack or cover the site after it has been hacked. Isn't that sort of what I'm supposed to do?

I'd like to help scout for my team but the new scanners (the ones I've used) don't have the range I need to snipe and scan properly. Sniping is usually done at a range of about 400m. There may be some scanner variants that can scan up to 400m, so I might be wrong. I can still use my eyeball but I can't really take in big movements, now I'm usually just reporting stragglers, snipers or people at the fringe of the map. Very occasionally I can spot a bigger group that my team isn't aware of. To be clear: I don't want squad vision back, I'm just pointing out things I notice.

Lots of the hackable stuff is inside the new sockets, on top of structures, underground or on hills. It's dangerous enough for snipers to hack the old types of objectives because when we do it we are behind the action with no-one to cover us. Now it is a bit more of a gamble because I have to run up or down stairs and around corners. I always seem to run into sentinels with big, nasty guns and worse attitudes. HTFU you say? Ok, that's fair. I'll stay put until I can grind myself to a decent skill level with a CQC weapon. But wait, that means I can't also carry my sniper rifle unless I use a commando drop suit. Commando suits aren't noted for their big slot arrays, so I can't fully prep the suit for either role. HTFU you say? Ok, that's fair. I'll stay put.

Snipers aren't usually packing the top of the killboards to my knowledge. Are we that big of a problem? Players just need to move randomly. It's a pain in the keister to snipe them when they randomly shift around. I think everyone knows this, if not I just gave away the biggest secret in the game. Sorry other snipers.

High risk snipers = useless snipers.

That "improvement" in just how easily you can reach them is proof of that.

No one gives a fk about balance. As long as they don't get sniped anymore.

How awful it would be if you'd actually *gasp* die to something other than a countersnipe!

ok this snipers can't play on the ground myth has to go........... if you play back man to your team you can push with an assualting force and be very devastating support fire. I've seen many people do it and have done it my self, and I ******* suck at sniping, if you keep an SMG off hand you can push in with your teammates when they push where you can no longer snipe and be extremely effective still.

Snipers need to learn to adapt and learn to play on the ground ... **** im gonna have to level up SR in my alt to start proving this aren't I??

I don't know the specific numbers off hand either. What the big problem was, was the rooftop camping with many snipers completely owning a socket. That's a huge issue we wanted to address. Now when we talk about better sniper perch placements, and having some more of them, then were talking logically and reasonably. And I am for supporting that in level designs. So I look forward to hearing constructive feedback on that. I hope you would be sure to do that in the outposts thread when you feel you are ready.

I haven't found any ladders or otherwise climbable tall features on the new maps and there are lots of wide open spaces. There may be some perches but I can't control the map rotations to give myself a chance to find them. This doesn't mean I'll give up looking, though. The dropship solution is not a bad one but unless the pilot is on comms I can't ask to be let off on a building or mountain. He may not even realize I'm a sniper. And let's be honest, blueberry dropships are usually a place where you wait around, doing nothing before you die.

Ladders were at least on this map a hard requirement to not use. We still have some technical issues with ladders as well. This is a big part of why you see less of them now. Also we are not fans of having players climb extremely long distances (like to the top of some of those buildings in OA for example.) We hope to get another method for scaling buildings in the future..

I've spent 14mil sp into a scout and feel as I am militia grade. I've spent frustrating hours trying to compete, I seriously have to try hard. I don't use ARs I don't use grenades, not the MD. As you can see there is a knifing community, so fix our knives. The only sure kills are ppl standing still. You are killing me CCP, you are killing me over and over.

That is a horrible place to be, as a sniper.
Its centralized location, relatively high position to the map itself, and low clearance (distance from pipeline to ground) make it one of the best placed for Drop Up-Link deployment. This results in many people focusing their attention there, while being in range of nearly every weapon, as people try to make their way there themselves for it's team-oriented benefits. Laser Rifles and Scrambler Rifles are better suited for that position than the Sniper Rifle.

Fracture Road (thanks for the name) lacks any common path. The map itself is so large and spread apart that it necessitates the use of vehicles. The map constantly has the vehicle quota reached. The hit-detection while in LAVs is still pitiful. So much of their body is exposed, yet so little can actually take damage. While Dropships protect their cargo by flying with the nose or aft facing a sniper.

I'm no stranger to Combat Sniping (the act of sniping from within AR range), that was my bread and butter of Ambush in Beta. Ashland was very good for this. Skirmish point "A" and the catwalk for the pipelines. There were many good spots on that map, all within the range of an HMG (with Sharp-Shooter). Line Harvest as well. From the table-top itself to many positions on the ground around it.

These new maps have no such area where people need to travel, except the vast distances between each multi-layered installation. And there are a great deal of different paths you can take, typically staying in cover. Until a single head-shot from a Tactical Sniper Rifle can kill a suit of the same tier, the Sniper Rifle will never be an area-denial weapon again. The new design philosophy of "no long range access" to null cannons means it can't be a point defense either.

The most tactically advantageous point on each of the new maps would be on top of those turbines... only they cause damage to anyone atop of them.

Much like the HMG needs a bottleneck in close quarters to maximize its defensive capabilities, the sniper rifle needs a bottleneck on open terrain.

maths.

Ishukone Sniper Rifle: 229.5 base damage. proficiency 5, +15%. 5 complex damage mods +31.34%, head-shot bonus +75%

229.5*1.15= 263.925 * 1.3134 = 346.369 * 1.75 = 606.6 damage

In PC, the charge time on the Charged Sniper Rifle is just too long. Doing point defense or area denial just isn't viable with it. it can get a bunch of kills in pub matches, but that's because most people aren't running full proto. Though it can do a lot of damage, requiring it to be a head-shot to kill is a bit ludicrous. The tiny bumps in on most of the maps make that precision very hard, and if people know a sniper is out there then they will dance around and not just travel in a perfectly straight line.

321.86 is the Charge's base
max possible damage to Head-shot is 850


and 355.3 for the Thales... so 939. But that really shouldn;t be taken into consideration when talking about balance. it is drastically underpowered compared to the bonuses that the Balac's the Krin's, or the Gastuns' give to their weapons
Nor should damage modifiers be used to balance the weapon. You don;t hear people screaming that the 'Exile' and 'Toxin' ARs are over powered because you can stack damage mods on suits with those. it is only when talking about sniper people cry out about Damage Modifiers (and Ishukone Breach Forge Gun :/ ) being unfair and being too high. I should be able to use a sniper rifle on a Gallente Scout (single high slot) just as well as on a Caldari Assault suit (4 high slots), or many favored Amarr Logistics suits (3 highs).

The charge Sniper Rifle needs to have a base damage ranging from 400 to 450. The whole point of sacrificing Rate of Fire is to do massive amounts of damage. Which is the amount it does currently with damage mods and high proficiency.

The Ishukone and Kaalakiota similarly need that boost in raw damage output. so around 335-350 for the Ishukone and 275-300 for the Kaalakiota. A buff to the ADV variants to bring them into the middle of current STD vaules (which are good for STD weapons) and modified proto values.

As well as a return to the original head shot modifier of 195%

EDIT: Scout suit math. Base Shield = 70, Base armor =130. Complex plate = 145. So a Scout couldn't actually take that with 5 damage mods, but they could/did with only a single complex damage modifier. Unless of course, you run 2 armor plates and then you can

Reduce the Forge Gun's anti-infantry ability and none of this would be the problem you think it is.
Hundreds of PC matches i've been in have been focused on who can get their forge gunners to the high point on the map first, not who can have a sniper guard a point.

A better way to deter sniping from the red-line in public contracts would be far better for the community as a whole than the method of keeping Null Cannons protected from snipers.

Looks like we were "too smart". We shouldn't have done too much "thinking" and have our Forge Gun buddies join us on our perches. The fact, that a single Militia Sniper Rifle can suppress us be damned. How dare we be effective.

Just stop using the sniper rifle man.
I forum-fought on behalf of snipers for nearly a year, but it made no difference. The dedicated snipers are too small a minority, and we have no one at CCP that identifies with us, to work on our behalf as a representative during development.
The tyranny of the assault majority has won in the end, in a VERY big way. Every future map to ever be designed will deliberately further limit a sniper's capability?

I'm astonished. That's a defeat in every possible way.
That's like God saying, "Not only am I going to curse you. I'm going to curse every single one of your fkin children until your bloodline is destroyed. Don't worry. You'll survive if you think."

Like hell we would. We barely finally managed to start flourishing at the end of Chromosome and into Uprising, just for this crap to start.
That said, I'm wondering just WHAT POSSIBLE METRIC made Snipers look so damn overpowered? Snipers had decent perches, they could effect a game if a sniper was GOOD. But they never guaranteed a victory, and more often than not, the team with snipers lost.

What convinced CCP to go with an anti-sniper level design? What?
It COULD NOT have been the complainers, because you have more people complaining about the Assault Rifle than you do people that complain about Snipers.

I want to know WHAT the snipers did to deserve getting an ENTIRE DESIGN PHILOSOPHY geared against them?

The fact, that a single Militia Sniper Rifle can suppress us be damned. How dare we be effective.

. . .


What convinced CCP to go with an anti-sniper level design? What?
It COULD NOT have been the complainers, because you have more people complaining about the Assault Rifle than you do people that complain about Snipers.

I want to know WHAT the snipers did to deserve getting an ENTIRE DESIGN PHILOSOPHY geared against them?

Snipers camping on top of roofs "dominating" sockets, are 100% the easiest targets on the field, and is why I haven't used the "gimme" sniping locations provided by CCP in the past 2 builds.

Now, this comment is coming from a generally dedicated sniper, so I can see the argument that their only counter is from other snipers; which is true. But is the solution to that really to limit snipers from gaining vantage points? Or is it to make those vantage points easily accessible to other classes?

I am absolutely astounded that level design has been designed specifically so that CQC takes place in an enclosed space protected specifically from sniper fire and hack points are safe zones from snipers.

You take away any effective ability to defend and/or control a point? This was essentially the only thing that could be done well *within game mechanics* (not including obvious things like intel/spotting) aside from killing.

This has disheartened me a lot. I absolutely loathe playing the new maps with either of my primary roles (shotgun or sniper), and I will often leave and just wait for a game on the old maps. This has caused me to play a lot less, because these maps just aren't enjoyable.

I fully agree that sniper vantage points should be accessible to anyone.
...
Munch

CCP LogicLoop has been responding in this thread, so don't lose hope. Keep the feedback reasoned and constructive.

I fully agree that sniper vantage points should be accessible to anyone.

Correction: he has responded on this thread.
He has not made any new remarks since.
As soon as they spot criticism they run and hide and don;t show back up. They may change something, they might not, but they stop responding.

I am absolutely astounded that level design has been designed specifically so that
... hack points are safe zones from snipers.

Yay, hipfire crosshairs for sniper rifles! Now we can have charged rifles no-scope OHKing people all match every match! That's just what we've been needing!

Looking back on all of this, I wish they had told us that the "new direction" was going to sniper-proof big parts of the game (NULL cannons, etc) and to promote CQC inside closed structures.

Perhaps they could have gotten some feedback from us before such changes were implemented.

BUT ...

We have what we have and it is what it is.

So the way forward is to be constructive. Post in the DUST 514 Map Feedback ---> Outposts forum.

Here.

But guys, please keep it constructive or we will all get tuned out.


Munch

I find this comment particularly interesting. I understand entirely what you mean and will take this into consideration on future designs.

I would however like to ask if you had considered that you could be protecting from say people entering into those closed off areas? This way you are still assisting. You just may not have your own men in sight. Granted this opportunity may not be extremely obvious or exist in ideal locations for a sniper as well. But I still do wonder if you had considered it in general.

Covering an entry/exit point doesn't work well, because:
a) As soon as the enemy drops an uplink inside, uplink spamming starts and the fight is continuously walled (especially during domination matches)
b) These entry points are often hard to cover from the distance (100+m) that a sniper needs to stay alive. Once he's seen within this distance, he's usually dead.

Covering an entry/exit point doesn't work well, because:
a) As soon as the enemy drops an uplink inside, uplink spamming starts and the fight is continuously walled (especially during domination matches)
b) These entry points are often hard to cover from the distance (100+m) that a sniper needs to stay alive. Once he's seen within this distance, he's usually dead.

I am absolutely astounded that level design has been designed specifically so that CQC takes place in an enclosed space protected specifically from sniper fire and hack points are safe zones from snipers. These two together, to say nothing of the limitations placed on height and concealment, absolutely cripple the snipers function. You take away any effective ability to defend and/or control a point? This was essentially the only thing that could be done well *within game mechanics* (not including obvious things like intel/spotting) aside from killing.

EDIT: To those saying snipers need to "learn to play on the ground", get a ******* grip. This is not CoD, where the real role for a sniper is completely ignored. Snipers are distance killers. If i'm going to "play on the ground", I'll take up an assault rifle not a sniper rifle, because that is the role it was intended for.

Do what I do when I snipe. Use an Caldari assault suit, sniper rifle and carry an SMG that you have fairly leveled up. Pull out the SMG while traveling, travel with teammates in case of a firefight, find a spot at ground level or with moderate elevation, take a few shots, move on. Just repeat the process. The bonus is that most people don't look for snipers at ground level so you have a little bit of an element of surprise. Not only that, but you might even get a few SMG kills while moving from point to point.

maybe but alot of care-bearing was done and not all of it bad, just the important things. do you like the tower squad standing around FG objective preventing anything less then an multiple orbital strike to dislodge them? i know that gets old fast.

in research in two matches I have found 4 great sniper nests. while they might not have perfect sight lines, I can hit about a third of the map from all of them. Logicloop, love the map,

I've seen sniping decreasing a lot since the changes in the aim assist, CQC is a lot easier this patch.
The fact is sniping does good only in red line (in both teams), and since the removal of the ultra high mountain in that one map before uprising snipers haven't been much of a threat.

The problem is the Forge Gun and his overcoming power to infantry which outshines the snipers at the ranges you're giving and should get some kind of movement in 1.5 for the AV and Vehicles balance, but who knows.
Really, outside the bold Thale's snipers and those pesky ones that get on top of the MCC sniping has went down.

Maybe (just maybe) by this focus on CQC the snipers could get a new TAC AR type sniper like the minnamatar one or something but I realize this isn't a solution for what's being asked here. I joined Dust initially to be a Heavy sniper, taking shots and being a rock among the other snipers, but eventually grow tired of standing outside and going 30/0. Now snipers can't do this because of the size but I've seen the new snipers that go around killing heavies at 10 meters with scout suits that have been learning to aim fast and shoot precisely, that's why I gave that solution.

Anyways the new meta of close encounters is coming but I know the good snipers will find their way in, now I'd like to see what the next patch is having for us. CCP give a good balance to the teamwork aspect but don't forget the Lone Wolf perspective because I've enjoyed both in your game... either that or just put a damn scope on the Forge Gun already

Snipers should move where needed to attack, and then move on. The new maps do not encourage entire teams to fall back and snipe at the first sign of trouble; but ISK payouts do. Contract payment should be more heavily weighted toward active participation in battles. This would discourage AFKing to some degree.

Looks like we were "too smart". We shouldn't have done too much "thinking" and have our Forge Gun buddies join us on our perches. The fact, that a single Militia Sniper Rifle can suppress us be damned. How dare we be effective.

Just stop using the sniper rifle man.
I forum-fought on behalf of snipers for nearly a year, but it made no difference. The dedicated snipers are too small a minority, and we have no one at CCP that identifies with us, to work on our behalf as a representative during development.
The tyranny of the assault majority has won in the end, in a VERY big way. Every future map to ever be designed will deliberately further limit a sniper's capability?

I'm astonished. That's a defeat in every possible way.
That's like God saying, "Not only am I going to curse you. I'm going to curse every single one of your fkin children until your bloodline is destroyed. Don't worry. You'll survive if you think."

Like hell we would. We barely finally managed to start flourishing at the end of Chromosome and into Uprising, just for this crap to start.
That said, I'm wondering just WHAT POSSIBLE METRIC made Snipers look so damn overpowered? Snipers had decent perches, they could effect a game if a sniper was GOOD. But they never guaranteed a victory, and more often than not, the team with snipers lost.

What convinced CCP to go with an anti-sniper level design? What?
It COULD NOT have been the complainers, because you have more people complaining about the Assault Rifle than you do people that complain about Snipers.

I want to know WHAT the snipers did to deserve getting an ENTIRE DESIGN PHILOSOPHY geared against them?

I believe a squad mate said it best (can't remember who): Those GD snipers need a grenade from behind, they aren't pushing up and we're the only f'n squad on the dam map everyone else is redline sniping the cowards!!!

The vast majority of the people who were sniping were doing it from their militia grade starter suits and just anoying everyone else that wasn't sniping and instead were running around in proto gear wiping the floor with the other team until more than one squad would come to objectives. This is a gameplay issue where a militia suit is favored over a paid for suit because it is still somewhat effective to get kills without much risk (behind the redline).

Most likely it was a multiple high kill count player doing this activity when running solo trying to Cap out in the little time remaining before a weekly reset. TBH my most hated weapon last build was the Militia Sniper Rifle.

I can appreciate an Ishukone Sniper one shotting me but when a noob suit militia suit is used in the middle of capping an objective it gets annoying really quick.

It can be done. Use tactics, use strategy, coordinate with your team / squad, and find good locations. Strategy, tactics, teamwork.

They already nerfed MLT Sniper Rifle in this build. It used to be 5 shots and was reduced to 3 for Uprising.

They already nerfed MLT Sniper Rifle in this build. It used to be 5 shots and was reduced to 3 for Uprising.

I guess if you're a ****** sniper you can't find a spot, but... just because the op can't watch a plantzone doesn't mean there aren't good sniper positions.

Define "good sniper", then you'll figure out what the problem is.

You are correct. These rules were put in place as we started the development of the Research Facility. What you are seeing is the transition to these new hard requirements. Eventually all sockets will have this put into place.

This is a redline problem. Removing sniping platforms from the neutral area of the map does NOTHING to fix this.



This is exploitation of starter fits, not caused by having sniper platforms in the neutral area of the map.



If you got shot by a sniper while you're hacking an objective, that sniper was doing their job, regardless of what equipment/suit they were using.