Snipers camping on top of roofs "dominating" sockets, are 100% the easiest targets on the field, and is why I haven't used the "gimme" sniping locations provided by CCP in the past 2 builds.

Now, this comment is coming from a generally dedicated sniper, so I can see the argument that their only counter is from other snipers; which is true. But is the solution to that really to limit snipers from gaining vantage points? Or is it to make those vantage points easily accessible to other classes?

I am absolutely astounded that level design has been designed specifically so that CQC takes place in an enclosed space protected specifically from sniper fire and hack points are safe zones from snipers.

You take away any effective ability to defend and/or control a point? This was essentially the only thing that could be done well *within game mechanics* (not including obvious things like intel/spotting) aside from killing.

This has disheartened me a lot. I absolutely loathe playing the new maps with either of my primary roles (shotgun or sniper), and I will often leave and just wait for a game on the old maps. This has caused me to play a lot less, because these maps just aren't enjoyable.

I fully agree that sniper vantage points should be accessible to anyone.
...
Munch

CCP LogicLoop has been responding in this thread, so don't lose hope. Keep the feedback reasoned and constructive.

I fully agree that sniper vantage points should be accessible to anyone.

Correction: he has responded on this thread.
He has not made any new remarks since.
As soon as they spot criticism they run and hide and don;t show back up. They may change something, they might not, but they stop responding.

I am absolutely astounded that level design has been designed specifically so that
... hack points are safe zones from snipers.

Yay, hipfire crosshairs for sniper rifles! Now we can have charged rifles no-scope OHKing people all match every match! That's just what we've been needing!

Looking back on all of this, I wish they had told us that the "new direction" was going to sniper-proof big parts of the game (NULL cannons, etc) and to promote CQC inside closed structures.

Perhaps they could have gotten some feedback from us before such changes were implemented.

BUT ...

We have what we have and it is what it is.

So the way forward is to be constructive. Post in the DUST 514 Map Feedback ---> Outposts forum.

Here.

But guys, please keep it constructive or we will all get tuned out.


Munch

I find this comment particularly interesting. I understand entirely what you mean and will take this into consideration on future designs.

I would however like to ask if you had considered that you could be protecting from say people entering into those closed off areas? This way you are still assisting. You just may not have your own men in sight. Granted this opportunity may not be extremely obvious or exist in ideal locations for a sniper as well. But I still do wonder if you had considered it in general.

Covering an entry/exit point doesn't work well, because:
a) As soon as the enemy drops an uplink inside, uplink spamming starts and the fight is continuously walled (especially during domination matches)
b) These entry points are often hard to cover from the distance (100+m) that a sniper needs to stay alive. Once he's seen within this distance, he's usually dead.

Covering an entry/exit point doesn't work well, because:
a) As soon as the enemy drops an uplink inside, uplink spamming starts and the fight is continuously walled (especially during domination matches)
b) These entry points are often hard to cover from the distance (100+m) that a sniper needs to stay alive. Once he's seen within this distance, he's usually dead.

I am absolutely astounded that level design has been designed specifically so that CQC takes place in an enclosed space protected specifically from sniper fire and hack points are safe zones from snipers. These two together, to say nothing of the limitations placed on height and concealment, absolutely cripple the snipers function. You take away any effective ability to defend and/or control a point? This was essentially the only thing that could be done well *within game mechanics* (not including obvious things like intel/spotting) aside from killing.

EDIT: To those saying snipers need to "learn to play on the ground", get a ******* grip. This is not CoD, where the real role for a sniper is completely ignored. Snipers are distance killers. If i'm going to "play on the ground", I'll take up an assault rifle not a sniper rifle, because that is the role it was intended for.

Do what I do when I snipe. Use an Caldari assault suit, sniper rifle and carry an SMG that you have fairly leveled up. Pull out the SMG while traveling, travel with teammates in case of a firefight, find a spot at ground level or with moderate elevation, take a few shots, move on. Just repeat the process. The bonus is that most people don't look for snipers at ground level so you have a little bit of an element of surprise. Not only that, but you might even get a few SMG kills while moving from point to point.

maybe but alot of care-bearing was done and not all of it bad, just the important things. do you like the tower squad standing around FG objective preventing anything less then an multiple orbital strike to dislodge them? i know that gets old fast.

in research in two matches I have found 4 great sniper nests. while they might not have perfect sight lines, I can hit about a third of the map from all of them. Logicloop, love the map,

I've seen sniping decreasing a lot since the changes in the aim assist, CQC is a lot easier this patch.
The fact is sniping does good only in red line (in both teams), and since the removal of the ultra high mountain in that one map before uprising snipers haven't been much of a threat.

The problem is the Forge Gun and his overcoming power to infantry which outshines the snipers at the ranges you're giving and should get some kind of movement in 1.5 for the AV and Vehicles balance, but who knows.
Really, outside the bold Thale's snipers and those pesky ones that get on top of the MCC sniping has went down.

Maybe (just maybe) by this focus on CQC the snipers could get a new TAC AR type sniper like the minnamatar one or something but I realize this isn't a solution for what's being asked here. I joined Dust initially to be a Heavy sniper, taking shots and being a rock among the other snipers, but eventually grow tired of standing outside and going 30/0. Now snipers can't do this because of the size but I've seen the new snipers that go around killing heavies at 10 meters with scout suits that have been learning to aim fast and shoot precisely, that's why I gave that solution.

Anyways the new meta of close encounters is coming but I know the good snipers will find their way in, now I'd like to see what the next patch is having for us. CCP give a good balance to the teamwork aspect but don't forget the Lone Wolf perspective because I've enjoyed both in your game... either that or just put a damn scope on the Forge Gun already

Snipers should move where needed to attack, and then move on. The new maps do not encourage entire teams to fall back and snipe at the first sign of trouble; but ISK payouts do. Contract payment should be more heavily weighted toward active participation in battles. This would discourage AFKing to some degree.

Looks like we were "too smart". We shouldn't have done too much "thinking" and have our Forge Gun buddies join us on our perches. The fact, that a single Militia Sniper Rifle can suppress us be damned. How dare we be effective.

Just stop using the sniper rifle man.
I forum-fought on behalf of snipers for nearly a year, but it made no difference. The dedicated snipers are too small a minority, and we have no one at CCP that identifies with us, to work on our behalf as a representative during development.
The tyranny of the assault majority has won in the end, in a VERY big way. Every future map to ever be designed will deliberately further limit a sniper's capability?

I'm astonished. That's a defeat in every possible way.
That's like God saying, "Not only am I going to curse you. I'm going to curse every single one of your fkin children until your bloodline is destroyed. Don't worry. You'll survive if you think."

Like hell we would. We barely finally managed to start flourishing at the end of Chromosome and into Uprising, just for this crap to start.
That said, I'm wondering just WHAT POSSIBLE METRIC made Snipers look so damn overpowered? Snipers had decent perches, they could effect a game if a sniper was GOOD. But they never guaranteed a victory, and more often than not, the team with snipers lost.

What convinced CCP to go with an anti-sniper level design? What?
It COULD NOT have been the complainers, because you have more people complaining about the Assault Rifle than you do people that complain about Snipers.

I want to know WHAT the snipers did to deserve getting an ENTIRE DESIGN PHILOSOPHY geared against them?

I believe a squad mate said it best (can't remember who): Those GD snipers need a grenade from behind, they aren't pushing up and we're the only f'n squad on the dam map everyone else is redline sniping the cowards!!!

The vast majority of the people who were sniping were doing it from their militia grade starter suits and just anoying everyone else that wasn't sniping and instead were running around in proto gear wiping the floor with the other team until more than one squad would come to objectives. This is a gameplay issue where a militia suit is favored over a paid for suit because it is still somewhat effective to get kills without much risk (behind the redline).

Most likely it was a multiple high kill count player doing this activity when running solo trying to Cap out in the little time remaining before a weekly reset. TBH my most hated weapon last build was the Militia Sniper Rifle.

I can appreciate an Ishukone Sniper one shotting me but when a noob suit militia suit is used in the middle of capping an objective it gets annoying really quick.

It can be done. Use tactics, use strategy, coordinate with your team / squad, and find good locations. Strategy, tactics, teamwork.

They already nerfed MLT Sniper Rifle in this build. It used to be 5 shots and was reduced to 3 for Uprising.

They already nerfed MLT Sniper Rifle in this build. It used to be 5 shots and was reduced to 3 for Uprising.

I guess if you're a ****** sniper you can't find a spot, but... just because the op can't watch a plantzone doesn't mean there aren't good sniper positions.

Define "good sniper", then you'll figure out what the problem is.

You are correct. These rules were put in place as we started the development of the Research Facility. What you are seeing is the transition to these new hard requirements. Eventually all sockets will have this put into place.