AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit!

AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit!

They require the basic human motor skill of hand eye coordination that is all.

You are aware that AR are in every Shooter in history right, as a matter of fact in real life too.... So how is a weapon which is the most commonly understood weapon be not skillful when everyone understand precision is key to skillful shooting...

No need for precision, just swipe away! It's so easy mode even the basic starter suits come with it fitted. I'm ashamed of myself whenever I got from my scrambler pistol doing about 12/0 and pick up the easy-I-WIN-button AR and knock out a 22 kdr. It's so easymode even YOU can use it :D

lmao yes i can use it because it so easy than i point and shoot your body... but MD and flaylocks are godmode easy since i dont even need to point at your body to get the hit i just gotta shoot your feet 2 meters away from you....

We can run in circles about this buddy but which is easier?? shooting directly at your body, or shooting 2 meters away from your body and still hitting you....... please tell me you have the common sense to give the correct answer

Honestly the AR is not a skilled weapon. Its not as easy as a mass driver but its still not a skilled weapon. Sniper guns sure are but i wish they had to account for wind and bullet drop.

I'd like to see you hit a moving target at a slightly higher elevation from 50 yards with an MD.

Who cares about that? What about when theres 2 or 3 of them right in front of you?

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

Honestly the AR is not a skilled weapon. Its not as easy as a mass driver but its still not a skilled weapon. Sniper guns sure are but i wish they had to account for wind and bullet drop.

Back in the beta, there was a test Sniper Rifle you could buy that had a physics system. I never sniped enough to get around to messing with it myself, but some people thought it was fun; mostly it was considered a hassle I think. Sort of like how dropships are now flying bricks that seldom see any meaningful use versus the fun helicopters they used to be.

AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit!

That also applies to the SMG, HMG, assault scrambler rifle, laser rifle, large and small blaster turrets, and in the future likely the magsec smg and a possible assault variant of the combat rifle and rail rifles

So quit being salty just because you were killed

basic which is the key word

your an idiot, the bullets made contact with you body because i pointed it at your body.... while flaylock or MD i just gotta aim at your shoes and miss several times but you will still die....

To be fair, when not used in CQC the MD does require a slight bit of skill but that skill is simply getting used to the firing arch and the travel time at various distances. However most don't use it that way; most just hop around like a jack rabbit 1-15 meters away from you while shooting in the direction of your feet.

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

Either reduce the MDs Clip size or rate of fire. Or just increase it's fitting req so you can't use anything else.

You are aware that AR are in every Shooter in history right, as a matter of fact in real life too.... So how is a weapon which is the most commonly understood weapon be not skillful when everyone understand precision is key to skillful shooting...

Honestly the AR is not a skilled weapon. Its not as easy as a mass driver but its still not a skilled weapon. Sniper guns sure are but i wish they had to account for wind and bullet drop.

people talk about it being a skill weapon when it is in fact it is the least skilled weapon in the game. you simply point in general direction and fire and it will hit. have 4 or 5 of your squad with these and you can kill most mercs with 1 volley and the rest with 2 volleys. if the enemy are grouped within a MD radius which is quite large then they can wipe out entire squads in that 1-2 volleys. now that is OP.

AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit!

With the MD you just have to hold R1... don't need to swipe across the enemy. Just shoot "anywhere" and something will die....

You need to lead shots way more with the MD and take the slow bullet travel time under consideration. Also, on a DPS basis the AR outclasses it hands down.

your an idiot, the bullets made contact with you body because i pointed it at your body.... while flaylock or MD i just gotta aim at your shoes and miss several times but you will still die....

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

im just going to throw something that has PS2 with what is skill and what is not skill.

http://youtu.be/xUTfVP95Rks?t=1m51s and that which is after that.

I don't saying that the MD should be nerfed ...on the contrary... every game needs a "NooB Cannon", the MD fulfills that role very nicely.

Very interesting and somewhat rather enlightening. Did notice myself getting frustrated in the last few matches of the day. However all the tanks I lost in those matches were entirely my fault.

The AR doesn't require much more skill...it's not as if swiping over a red dot requires a lot of skill, not given the AR's ROF. The AR is just as much a noob tube as the MD.

Real skill weapon? Scrambler pistol!

At medium to long range the AR is infinitely easier to use. So calling the MD a noob tube while pretending the AR takes skill is hypocritical. It's just AR folk who want to pretend they're 'skillful".

Like I said, if you want to really say you're skillful, use the scrambler pistol or nova knife...THOSE are TRUE skill weapon.

PS: I can use both the AR/MD, to me they're both the same in terms of skill...albeit at different ranges.

AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit!

No need for precision, just swipe away! It's so easy mode even the basic starter suits come with it fitted. I'm ashamed of myself whenever I got from my scrambler pistol doing about 12/0 and pick up the easy-I-WIN-button AR and knock out a 22 kdr. It's so easymode even YOU can use it :D

Top Two Skill weapons
Scram Pistol (my main)
Nova Knife

Lowest Two Skill Weapons
AR
Mass Driver

I base this off the fact that they take the least amount of investment to bring solid returns.

"you simply point in the general direction and fire and it will hit"

So does that make every gun in this game "the least skilled weapon". Give me an example of a weapon in this game where you wont hit the person if you "simply point in the general direction and fire"

I don't saying that the MD should be nerfed ...on the contrary... every game needs a "NooB Cannon", the MD fulfills that role very nicely.

your an idiot, the bullets made contact with you body because i pointed it at your body.... while flaylock or MD i just gotta aim at your shoes and miss several times but you will still die....

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit!

You know, this is why I can't stand the majority of this community. So many people that like to label and degrade what they don't like or don't prefer adding more and more toxicity just for the sake of doing it. How about you use what the **** you want to use and let someone else use what the **** they want to use. If you don't like what they use, then shoot them in the face when you see their name on the killfeed. Last time I checked, this was a FPS and not a daytime talk show. There's no Oprah in New Eden and if there was, I'm pretty sure even she'd tell you to HTFU.

So, people complain about the AR being used so much because it is easier to use. Wrong, it is used so much because everyone knows how to use one because almost every FPS starts you off with a basic AR.

I believe the flaylock does require some skill to be viable now.

The blast radius is quite small, and with 3 rockets per mag, you should only use it to finish someone off.

The other reason that people use AR's a lot is because it is probably the most diverse weapon. It can still be used to some effect at medium range, and sprays bullets from the hip while dancing with an enemy in CQC like a less effective SMG. With my logi fit, the AR means I don't miss a sidearm to augment the short comings of my primary weapon.

I noted that it is "effective in most combat situations" but "suffers at shotgun range (about 5 metres)"

Meaning, it is very versatile but lacks a bit in CQC situations :)

There are four weapons that require quite a bit of player skill to excel with in this game.

Laser Rifle (current, pre 1.4)
Shotgun
Plasma Cannon
Nova Knives (competitively, not against noobs)


Everything else, you're playing DUST on easy mode. Going 30/0 means comparatively little with an AR or HMG. Going 30/0 with Nova Knives or Plasma Cannon means you're god skill.

We're all scrubs here trying to sound less scrubby than one other.

Honestly the AR is not a skilled weapon. Its not as easy as a mass driver but its still not a skilled weapon. Sniper guns sure are but i wish they had to account for wind and bullet drop.

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

I'd like to see you hit a moving target at a slightly higher elevation from 50 yards with an MD.

The Mass Driver is the epitome of the phrase " A minute to learn, a lifetime to master", because maining the MD requires you to always manage your optimal range. The MD is the most affected by elevation; your weapon gets a hell of alot better, or a hell of alot worse even with slight elevation differences. Knowing exactly where to shoot above 25 meters without wasting shots is important, especially as a Logi, since you die after 6-8. Then there are the blindshooting tactics to avoid snipers and in PC placing your shots where your allies aren't harmed by them(Assault MD especially)

The MD takes more skill to survive, especially the Assault and Breach. You may can get by with the standard alot of situations, but with the Assault and Breach you're in optimal, or you suck.

Honesty though, skill doesn't matter, weapon balance does. You can complain about getting killed by Ryu's Hadoken spam, good players beat them.

You need to lead shots way more with the MD and take the slow bullet travel time under consideration. Also, on a DPS basis the AR outclasses it hands down.

The AR doesn't require much more skill...it's not as if swiping over a red dot requires a lot of skill, not given the AR's ROF. The AR is just as much a noob tube as the MD.

Real skill weapon? Scrambler pistol!

Not true. With only three missiles in a clip and only 140-160 splash damage (depending on proficiency skill level), every missile has to hit. Unless you are a scout or have not tanked anything for shields or armor, I have to reload and hit 1-3 times more. With only 1.8ish splash damage radius on the *prototype* flaylock pistol, if you are dodging and/or are not at least slightly below me, I am not guaranteed to hit every time. In the former case, you need to dodge and strike me with skill. In the latter case, you have to be smart enough to run away to gain a superior field advantage before attacking me again. In either case, the issue isn't whether the post-nerf flaylock requires skill, the issue is whether you have the skill to counter my weapon of choice.

I think the problem is that so many people have narrowed the definition of skill to down to what their weapon of choice requires. In the end, the mass driver is an area of denial weapon. Using an area of denial weapon skillfully is not about precise head shots, its being able to understand where to find the best firing position, what area the enemy needs to be pushed from, and coordinating with your team so they can take advantage of the change in the field.

Slow fire rate with wicked arch that requires a good eye to aim correctly at anything beyond short-medium range, means it still takes skill to fire, just not head shot precision skill. In close range, you can get hit by your own blast radius. And the blast radius only does 120ish HP of damage, so an opponent with any skill retreats effectively and changes their strategy to gain an upper hand.

I tried using the mass driver for a while and found it too unweilding to get consistently good results (either as an area denial weapon or KDR padder) so I very rarely use it and only then because I'm bored with using my AR. A friend who is more proficient at online fps than me also found it too tricky/frustrating to use so refuses to use it.

since CCP fixed the flaylock it is most certainly a skill weapon so you dont seem to know what your talking about also someone may have mentioned but I didn't see the Laser Rifle up here which is most certainly a weapon requiring skill, yes you AR taks a degree of ability to use but has O downsides, as with every other weapon
AR = EZ mode

If aiming was the only skill to speak of in this game, you'd have a point.

But it isn't, so you don't.

"you simply point in the general direction and fire and it will hit"

So does that make every gun in this game "the least skilled weapon". Give me an example of a weapon in this game where you won't hit the person if you "simply point in the general direction and fire"

AR requires skill?!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Oh wait, you're actually serious...?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You realize MD already has like 3rd smallest clip and ROF, and the 2nd highest fitting cost.

Do you even dust bro?

It needs a definate splash reduction (-1m like in 1.0,) if after testing we find that isn't enough, then a possible splash damage reduction. TBH the MD is nowhere near what the TAC/Flay problem was. You can't really spam an MD contrary to popular belief. Modded controller spammed Tac, 3 explosion in less than a second from flay? MD issue is that it was made to destroy armor, which is slowest suit, and then has a HUGE radius, making it near impossible to get away.

This is your definition of skill? Accuracy only? Lol to this

AR with it's zero recoil recoil is not a skill weapon, it's like a laser with added damage.

Also, MD's splash is kinda funny as you can away from the said area...

Just in case you mad

Honestly the AR is not a skilled weapon. Its not as easy as a mass driver but its still not a skilled weapon. Sniper guns sure are but i wish they had to account for wind and bullet drop.

So this kills me. MD users don't aim. So splash is what ~125 dmg? So say you have 600 ehp, that's 4-6 shots depending on shield or armor. If you can't kill a MD user of equal ehp within 4-6 seconds with an AR, your bad. If the MD user is killing you in less than 4-6 shots, your being direct hit, so aiming?

The point about cover is just a bad arguement. The MDs job is to push people out of cover, so the AR guys can slaughter them. So working as intended?

has anyone managed to excel at the plasma cannon? I have never tried it. I occasionally see someone on my team using one, but have never been killed by one in the last 3 months of playing regularly

Oh please.

You dont need skill to use me, I'm so sexy () that anyone that uses me automatically becomes effective in combat situations.

Your lord has spoken, bow down to your supreme overlord!

You are aware that AR are in every Shooter in history right, as a matter of fact in real life too.... So how is a weapon which is the most commonly understood weapon be not skillful when everyone understand precision is key to skillful shooting...

there is no optimal range for the MD because its a explosive weapon.... its limited by the range of its explosion, and gaining higher elevation is a fair tactics, but trajectory drop in this game with the MD is not that skillful considering how games like Battlefield 3 has bullet drop for every weapon including Rifles. So again how is splash damage for skillful than on the mark hitting your target

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

later today, I was killed by a plasma cannon for the first time.....

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

Honestly the AR is not a skilled weapon. Its not as easy as a mass driver but its still not a skilled weapon. Sniper guns sure are but i wish they had to account for wind and bullet drop.

was it me? i have gone over 10 kills now with it in a single match w/o using my sidearm.

Read this whole thread, laughing the whole way. The reason the AR has been and will be the most used weapon, because it is easy to use. Seeing a surge in MD lately? Good. That is called diversity. Getting killed by it often? Yeah, it doesn't shoot hugs. It is amusing to me to see so many pick it up (still less than AR) because a large majority are not good with it. If you fight in close proximity to a MD, the fight isn't in your favor. Same way if they are above you. At its core its a SURPRESSIVE weapon. If you insist on running into surpessive fire, be my guest.

ROFL as your...."its a suppressive weapon"...yea thats why when I run with the MD I charge at 3 guys and laugh as I blow them all the smitherins.......yea its definitely a suppressive fire weapon and cannot be used effectively in run n gun situations....




Oh wait yes it can because the majority of the times its used in PC its being used as a run n gun weapon because its extremely effective in this role..........

In some situations it is suppresive, but is a breaching tool (ala description) which means it is designed for short range group combat, because the fact an ar only needs 40% accuracy to beat it isn't enough!!

Yea and the obvious fact that you all fail to even comprehend is that if the MD hits an AR user once in its AOE the MD user can then continue to pump out rounds without fear of being shot back due to the aim jerk the explosive creates. I have played with MD enough to know that as long as the 3 AR users stay within the blast radius of my MD I will not even take 1 shot from them once I start hitting them with AOE. You act like its so difficult...whats so difficult about a weapon that....lets say....cycles every second but creates a stunning/ineffective aiming effect on your enemy for about 1.5 seconds?

I could care less if there are 3 ppl with ARs shooting my direction once I hit them I am basically invincible from taking any further dmg from them as their aim jerks up and becomes completely ineffective for the duration of my clip. I have even faced HMGs in CQC with the heavy being at full HP and completely destroyed the heavy due to this ability to creat a weapon jerk (it seems to be less noticeable on heavies but it still exists).

Put it this way if the ar had 30 round mag, and requires more than 50% accuracy, then it requires moderate skill, if the md had a smaller blast radius it would require moderate skill, no weapon takes skill, this is how they are designed you reckon the army fields them over lsw s because they require more skill, or because they are cheap, simple and easy to maintain?

Im in no way saying its difficult, nor am I saying its easy, but you realise the barrel jerk applies to ads, and it happens with all weapons not just mass driver, the only difference is we kick up a little dust.

If your beating 3 ar s in cqc its not a problem with the md, there just poor, three people require 2 shots each a second and the md user will drop dead, surely 3 people can manage 6 shots out of 36 hitting while hip firing??

CHeap.....simple......

You apparently know nothing about the M16, M4 or any of the M# weapons for the US military. Easy to maintain??? Hardly the M16s and M4s have a history of being one of the worst ARs ever made. They are horrible about jamming have tons of parts that need to be cleaned and they are not very rugged.

You wanna know why the AK47 is perhaps the most prolific....well known.....and copied weapon? Easy...Its simple, effective, and you can basically beat it up and it will continue to shoot effectively. The M16s/etc.....you mistreat them and they will throw a fit and not work properly for you.


I understand the point your trying to make and honestly if the AR clip was to be brought down 45 would be ok....30 is too few when you include hit detection issues which would cause about 1/4-1/3 of the bullets to just disappear into the void. But to be fair if you lower the AR mag size then you need to lower the, Laser rifle, scrambler rifle, HMG, SMG mag size as well.

AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....


Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.

But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...

No only explosive weapons create a barrel jerk.

Test it then and post a video here and ill eat my hat!!
Its there just not as noticable because it doesn't blow up!!

No video recording device....nor do I care enough to take the time out of my day to prove this.......I know that when I am hit with other weapons I dont have a huge aim jerk that requires time to recover from like the MD.

Oh and LOL I didnt even think about the fact that you could be talking about another military......

Edit: And if I was to do this then you will need to post a video of you cooking up and eating your hat......just sayin

Yea and the obvious fact that you all fail to even comprehend is that if the MD hits an AR user once in its AOE the MD user can then continue to pump out rounds without fear of being shot back due to the aim jerk the explosive creates. I have played with MD enough to know that as long as the 3 AR users stay within the blast radius of my MD I will not even take 1 shot from them once I start hitting them with AOE. You act like its so difficult...whats so difficult about a weapon that....lets say....cycles every second but creates a stunning/ineffective aiming effect on your enemy for about 1.5 seconds?

I could care less if there are 3 ppl with ARs shooting my direction once I hit them I am basically invincible from taking any further dmg from them as their aim jerks up and becomes completely ineffective for the duration of my clip. I have even faced HMGs in CQC with the heavy being at full HP and completely destroyed the heavy due to this ability to creat a weapon jerk (it seems to be less noticeable on heavies but it still exists).

We're all scrubs here trying to sound less scrubby than one other.