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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
232
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Posted - 2013.08.31 09:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
people talk about it being a skill weapon when it is in fact it is the least skilled weapon in the game. you simply point in general direction and fire and it will hit. have 4 or 5 of your squad with these and you can kill most mercs with 1 volley and the rest with 2 volleys. if the enemy are grouped within a MD radius which is quite large then they can wipe out entire squads in that 1-2 volleys. now that is OP.
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
12
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Posted - 2013.08.31 09:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
since CCP fixed the flaylock it is most certainly a skill weapon so you dont seem to know what your talking about also someone may have mentioned but I didn't see the Laser Rifle up here which is most certainly a weapon requiring skill, yes you AR taks a degree of ability to use but has O downsides, as with every other weapon AR = EZ mode |
Shadow Archeus
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
124
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ar and MD are both noobs weapons.....splash damage on one and the easiest weapon in the game to use.....try hmg at any range and u will get beat by are every time unless u get a jump on people.....or try forge gunning a target up on a hill you'd have to hit the target to kill him.....or try the laser rifle before the sights get fixed........the fact of the matter is ar users don't want anything better than their precious Douvolles and MD users want to sit high up and rain grenades at objectives to get kills |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1306
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Burntface man112 wrote:AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....
Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.
But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...
If aiming was the only skill to speak of in this game, you'd have a point.
But it isn't, so you don't. |
MarasdF Loron
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
102
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
AR requires skill?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Oh wait, you're actually serious...? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
346
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
Akdhar Saif wrote:Either reduce the MDs Clip size or rate of fire. Or just increase it's fitting req so you can't use anything else. You realize MD already has like 3rd smallest clip and ROF, and the 2nd highest fitting cost.
Do you even dust bro?
It needs a definate splash reduction (-1m like in 1.0,) if after testing we find that isn't enough, then a possible splash damage reduction. TBH the MD is nowhere near what the TAC/Flay problem was. You can't really spam an MD contrary to popular belief. Modded controller spammed Tac, 3 explosion in less than a second from flay? MD issue is that it was made to destroy armor, which is slowest suit, and then has a HUGE radius, making it near impossible to get away. |
R'adeh Hunt
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
370
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
Burntface man112 wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! You are aware that AR are in every Shooter in history right, as a matter of fact in real life too.... So how is a weapon which is the most commonly understood weapon be not skillful when everyone understand precision is key to skillful shooting...
Just because so many use it doesn't mean it's a skill weapon. It's ROF is high enough to allow you to simply swipe over enemies...some bullets are bound to hit. So yeah, it doesn't have splash...but you can just swipe which doesn't take as much skill as hitting someone with a scrambler pistol for example. |
Jimbo1337
Pure Innocence. EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Honestly the AR is not a skilled weapon. Its not as easy as a mass driver but its still not a skilled weapon. Sniper guns sure are but i wish they had to account for wind and bullet drop.
Sniper guns are? Sniper guns are? Go play a game like MAG where you have to lead the bullet and then come back to me.
A game like MAG is what this game will never be. |
Jimbo1337
Pure Innocence. EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people talk about it being a skill weapon when it is in fact it is the least skilled weapon in the game. you simply point in general direction and fire and it will hit. have 4 or 5 of your squad with these and you can kill most mercs with 1 volley and the rest with 2 volleys. if the enemy are grouped within a MD radius which is quite large then they can wipe out entire squads in that 1-2 volleys. now that is OP.
"you simply point in the general direction and fire and it will hit"
So does that make every gun in this game "the least skilled weapon". Give me an example of a weapon in this game where you wont hit the person if you "simply point in the general direction and fire" |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
987
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit!
With the MD you just have to hold R1... don't need to swipe across the enemy. Just shoot "anywhere" as something will die.... |
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R'adeh Hunt
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
371
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Posted - 2013.09.01 09:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! With the MD you just have to hold R1... don't need to swipe across the enemy. Just shoot "anywhere" and something will die....
You need to lead shots way more with the MD and take the slow bullet travel time under consideration. Also, on a DPS basis the AR outclasses it hands down. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
993
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Posted - 2013.09.01 09:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! With the MD you just have to hold R1... don't need to swipe across the enemy. Just shoot "anywhere" and something will die.... You need to lead shots way more with the MD and take the slow bullet travel time under consideration. Also, on a DPS basis the AR outclasses it hands down.
I don't saying that the MD should be nerfed ...on the contrary... every game needs a "NooB Cannon", the MD fulfills that role very nicely. |
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
152
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Posted - 2013.09.01 09:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Burntface man112 wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! your an idiot, the bullets made contact with you body because i pointed it at your body.... while flaylock or MD i just gotta aim at your shoes and miss several times but you will still die....
AR with it's zero recoil recoil is not a skill weapon, it's like a laser with added damage.
Also, MD's splash is kinda funny as you can away from the said area...
Just in case you mad |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1402
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
im just going to throw something that has PS2 with what is skill and what is not skill.
http://youtu.be/xUTfVP95Rks?t=1m51s and that which is after that. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1280
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
Burntface man112 wrote:AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....
Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.
But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...
so just by the fact you called the AR a skill weapon and then continued to say that skill is defined by the ability to simply point and click proves to me that your perspective on skill is flawed |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
745
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Posted - 2013.09.01 10:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
I thought he was going to talk about the difference between ISK bought items and AUR items. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1474
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Very interesting and somewhat rather enlightening. Did notice myself getting frustrated in the last few matches of the day. However all the tanks I lost in those matches were entirely my fault. |
R'adeh Hunt
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
371
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Posted - 2013.09.01 10:11:00 -
[48] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! With the MD you just have to hold R1... don't need to swipe across the enemy. Just shoot "anywhere" and something will die.... You need to lead shots way more with the MD and take the slow bullet travel time under consideration. Also, on a DPS basis the AR outclasses it hands down. I don't saying that the MD should be nerfed ...on the contrary... every game needs a "NooB Cannon", the MD fulfills that role very nicely.
The AR doesn't require much more skill...it's not as if swiping over a red dot requires a lot of skill, not given the AR's ROF. The AR is just as much a noob tube as the MD.
Real skill weapon? Scrambler pistol! |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1402
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Posted - 2013.09.01 10:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Very interesting and somewhat rather enlightening. Did notice myself getting frustrated in the last few matches of the day. However all the tanks I lost in those matches were entirely my fault. its ok, probably technical skill which might come with time since tanks require the most of it over physical. but i don't know how you lost them. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
993
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Posted - 2013.09.01 10:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! With the MD you just have to hold R1... don't need to swipe across the enemy. Just shoot "anywhere" and something will die.... You need to lead shots way more with the MD and take the slow bullet travel time under consideration. Also, on a DPS basis the AR outclasses it hands down. I don't saying that the MD should be nerfed ...on the contrary... every game needs a "NooB Cannon", the MD fulfills that role very nicely. The AR doesn't require much more skill...it's not as if swiping over a red dot requires a lot of skill, not given the AR's ROF. The AR is just as much a noob tube as the MD. Real skill weapon? Scrambler pistol!
I use both... AR and MD.. sometimes together with the Commando suit... I stopped using the MD because i'm embarrass of how easily i kill people. Don't fool yourself ... the MD is a "NooB cannon", but like i said... every game needs one of those. |
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1402
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Posted - 2013.09.01 10:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
i love this debate over skill... the MD does take skill to use. its more mental and technical while the AR is more physical. and well a lot of the people here still do COD rushes. |
R'adeh Hunt
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
371
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Posted - 2013.09.01 10:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
At medium to long range the AR is infinitely easier to use. So calling the MD a noob tube while pretending the AR takes skill is hypocritical. It's just AR folk who want to pretend they're 'skillful".
Like I said, if you want to really say you're skillful, use the scrambler pistol or nova knife...THOSE are TRUE skill weapon.
PS: I can use both the AR/MD, to me they're both the same in terms of skill...albeit at different ranges. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
993
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Posted - 2013.09.01 10:33:00 -
[53] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:At medium to long range the AR is infinitely easier to use. So calling the MD a noob tube while pretending the AR takes skill is hypocritical. It's just AR folk who want to pretend they're 'skillful".
Like I said, if you want to really say you're skillful, use the scrambler pistol or nova knife...THOSE are TRUE skill weapon.
PS: I can use both the AR/MD, to me they're both the same in terms of skill...albeit at different ranges.
With the aiming fixes in 1.4 the MD and AR is going to became more of a "Normal" weapon.... you realize that we haven't even seen what the SCR can "really" do ? or pistols... like you said...and don't even get me started with how OP laser guns are going to be when people can aim correctly ... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4630
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Posted - 2013.09.01 11:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
You know, this is why I can't stand the majority of this community. So many people that like to label and degrade what they don't like or don't prefer adding more and more toxicity just for the sake of doing it. How about you use what the **** you want to use and let someone else use what the **** they want to use. If you don't like what they use, then shoot them in the face when you see their name on the killfeed. Last time I checked, this was a FPS and not a daytime talk show. There's no Oprah in New Eden and if there was, I'm pretty sure even she'd tell you to HTFU. |
Theex 1661
Gummibaerenbande 514
3
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Posted - 2013.09.01 12:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! Did you actually ever played the AR in this game, because you have obviously no idea at all what you are talking about!
-FACEPALM-
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:No need for precision, just swipe away! It's so easy mode even the basic starter suits come with it fitted. I'm ashamed of myself whenever I got from my scrambler pistol doing about 12/0 and pick up the easy-I-WIN-button AR and knock out a 22 kdr. It's so easymode even YOU can use it :D Are you really complaining and base your statement of that you do more kills and a higher kdr with a MAIN WEAPON, especially with an assault rifle, than with a PISTOL that is a SIDEARM???
I can just repeat "you have obviously no idea at all what you are talking about!
-FACEPALM-"
Theex 1661 |
Blaze Ashra
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.09.01 12:16:00 -
[56] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Top Two Skill weapons Scram Pistol (my main) Nova Knife
Lowest Two Skill Weapons AR Mass Driver
I base this off the fact that they take the least amount of investment to bring solid returns.
Swarm launcher? |
MarasdF Loron
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
106
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Posted - 2013.09.01 14:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
Jimbo1337 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people talk about it being a skill weapon when it is in fact it is the least skilled weapon in the game. you simply point in general direction and fire and it will hit. have 4 or 5 of your squad with these and you can kill most mercs with 1 volley and the rest with 2 volleys. if the enemy are grouped within a MD radius which is quite large then they can wipe out entire squads in that 1-2 volleys. now that is OP.
"you simply point in the general direction and fire and it will hit" So does that make every gun in this game "the least skilled weapon". Give me an example of a weapon in this game where you wont hit the person if you "simply point in the general direction and fire" Scrambler Pistol.
Panther Alpha wrote: I don't saying that the MD should be nerfed ...on the contrary... every game needs a "NooB Cannon", the MD fulfills that role very nicely.
Then tell me why it's so much easier to get kills with the damn AR? AR is the real noob weapon. |
Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
28
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Posted - 2013.09.01 15:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
Burntface man112 wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! your an idiot, the bullets made contact with you body because i pointed it at your body.... while flaylock or MD i just gotta aim at your shoes and miss several times but you will still die....
Not true. With only three missiles in a clip and only 140-160 splash damage (depending on proficiency skill level), every missile has to hit. Unless you are a scout or have not tanked anything for shields or armor, I have to reload and hit 1-3 times more. With only 1.8ish splash damage radius on the *prototype* flaylock pistol, if you are dodging and/or are not at least slightly below me, I am not guaranteed to hit every time. In the former case, you need to dodge and strike me with skill. In the latter case, you have to be smart enough to run away to gain a superior field advantage before attacking me again. In either case, the issue isn't whether the post-nerf flaylock requires skill, the issue is whether you have the skill to counter my weapon of choice. |
Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
28
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Posted - 2013.09.01 15:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
Burntface man112 wrote:AR, snipers, Scrambler, and anything which requires precision without splash damage is skillful.....
Massdrivers, and flaylocks are not skillful..... WTF is so difficult to understand about that? splash damage vs on the mark hitting your targets, but for some reason some people believe MD and Flaylocks are skill based even though it has a blast radius.... Its like if i was saying Rocket launchers in halo are skillful weapons.... holy smokes. weapons are pretty appropriate right now, maybe the mass driver could use a distance nerf and thats all. And the railgun turret (small one) could use some actually buffing.
But as of right now I feel the weapons are in their appropriate places...
I think the problem is that so many people have narrowed the definition of skill to down to what their weapon of choice requires. In the end, the mass driver is an area of denial weapon. Using an area of denial weapon skillfully is not about precise head shots, its being able to understand where to find the best firing position, what area the enemy needs to be pushed from, and coordinating with your team so they can take advantage of the change in the field.
Slow fire rate with wicked arch that requires a good eye to aim correctly at anything beyond short-medium range, means it still takes skill to fire, just not head shot precision skill. In close range, you can get hit by your own blast radius. And the blast radius only does 120ish HP of damage, so an opponent with any skill retreats effectively and changes their strategy to gain an upper hand.
I tried using the mass driver for a while and found it too unweilding to get consistently good results (either as an area denial weapon or KDR padder) so I very rarely use it and only then because I'm bored with using my AR. A friend who is more proficient at online fps than me also found it too tricky/frustrating to use so refuses to use it.
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Nonya Bizznizz
DUST University Ivy League
35
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Posted - 2013.09.01 15:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:AR doesn't require skill. Just hold R1 and swipe your hit-scan death beam across the enemy a few times ??? Profit! So your saying every weapon in DUST except for the Mass Driver and Flaylock pistols (whiched were nerfed to reasonable lengths) are non skillful weapons because all you do is hold/tap R1 and let hit-scan do the rest? |
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