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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
933
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:NPC corps should have tax of 11%, like EVE. They did it to encourage memberships in corporations (and to remove people from the war-free safety). This should totally carry over.
And they should be giving incentive to new players to join corps. New players are much more likely to stick with the game if they are in a corp. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1566
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 18:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
SO you released a dev blog after the patch is content locked
Once again the dust 514 devs make it obviously clear what they think of "player feedback"
guys nothing we say in this thread can change anything it's already done they can not change a thing.
I still love the change and I'm glad it's making it in but it doesn't nothing to restore my faith they care about feedback. |
R F Gyro
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
468
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:01:00 -
[63] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:SO you released a dev blog after the patch is content locked
Once again the dust 514 devs make it obviously clear what they think of "player feedback"
guys nothing we say in this thread can change anything it's already done they can not change a thing.
I still love the change and I'm glad it's making it in but it doesn't nothing to restore my faith they care about feedback. Don't be silly |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1138
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs - It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation. The problem is you have now created an economic incentive for people to not play together to avoid taxation.
The assumption is that you will make less isk as a result of not being in a corp. I've not been in an NPC corp lately, but generally when I squad (with my corp) I make more isk than not having squaded (especially as a logi).
If there is an incentive, its more that players not commit to a corporation rather than not play together. Nuanced yes. But that means that it will be the corporation's responsibility to create content that people will value above the % they give to corp. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1566
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 19:05:00 -
[65] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs - It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation. The problem is you have now created an economic incentive for people to not play together to avoid taxation. I'm guessing this mean they didn't even tell you guys about the change ahead a time... |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1566
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:SO you released a dev blog after the patch is content locked
Once again the dust 514 devs make it obviously clear what they think of "player feedback"
guys nothing we say in this thread can change anything it's already done they can not change a thing.
I still love the change and I'm glad it's making it in but it doesn't nothing to restore my faith they care about feedback. Don't be silly
how am I being sily? people are giving feedback and all CCP can say is "Sorry we will fix that but no eta"
In eve when a dev blog is released it's to gain feedback to change a feature before it's content locked. |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
203
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Mamertine Son wrote:Is there a way to identify the revenue each individual brings into the corp?
It would be a handy way to instantly identify who's actually playing or who went dead in the corp. Maybe some corps might want to reward their most active players. Just a thought. Good question, will player's taxes show up on the wallet archive page?
Just want to bump this idea before it gets lost in shuffle.
A 'no' is fine, I can handle it. It would be at least nice to know that it made it onto someone's white paper napkin before it got used as a coster for their coffee mug.
In general, though, corp directors/CEO's should be able to quickly acquire more relevant data on their members.
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Kain Spero
Spero Escrow Services
1961
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
The CPM actually made it position know on the pitfalls of not including a base tax on NPC corps, but CCP in then end can choose to not listen to feedback. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
934
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
You can certainly tell that many free market ideals are not quite understood by CCP. They certainly do not understand anything about incentives. I know they have a successful game in Eve so they must be doing something right, but I think even Eve is held back because there isn't much incentive to get out and fight. There are many things to do in Eve besides fight, but most of those things are very boring and tedious (to say the least).
Even when they write about what they believe will happen when they do a certain thing, it's the complete opposite reaction a human being would have. |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
204
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:The CPM actually made it position know on the pitfalls of not including a base tax on NPC corps, but CCP in then end can choose to not listen to feedback.
Corp tax isn't enough of reason NOT to join a corp. There are clear disadvantages with staying in an NPC corp like playing an FPS with random nobodies all day that don't even have mics.
I seem to be missing something on this NPC tax debate. |
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Waruiko DUST
G I A N T EoN.
122
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
only complaint is that npc corps won't have tax. In EVE getting away from the 11% npc tax rate is part of the reason to join a corp. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1718
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
Pretty cool stuff FoxFour!
Thanks! |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7583
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
I didn't argue for npc corps to have taxes on the simple fact regular player corporations don't have enough benefits rolling for them to force players to avoid taxation via corp exiting. Once corps have far better tools such as armories, roles, and the like then I can see pushing for a npc tax increase as corps can reliably provide better services than the npc counter parts. |
pink FLUFF
Goonfeet Top Men.
54
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:31:00 -
[74] - Quote
As of this note I am creating a Dust corp Called "Low Rate". With a 1% tax incentive!!!! When CCP finally realizes their errors, this new corp will be for all the dust boys and girls to freely enjoy the benefits of a free game with historically low taxes never seen before! Jump on this chance to enjoy the low tax!
Feel free to apply. |
Silas Swakhammer
GamersForChrist Orion Empire
69
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs - It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation. The problem is you have now created an economic incentive for people to not play together to avoid taxation. Would it be possible to implement a tax rate for mercs in NPC corps once those mercs have reached a certain amount of total WPs? I can understand the reasons for not having a NPC corp tax rate, but I was still greatly surprised to read about the lack of tax for generic corps. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
602
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:What's going to happen if this NPC tax shelter goes through is people will squad up, corporation-independent, and run "safely" from their NPC tax shelters but still enjoy the benefits of increased WPs due to squadding up, etc. People aren't going to join a corp "to feel nice" when they can just join the corp (or other group) chat channel and squad up without tax burdens from being in the player corp. Ah, but on the other hand people will become exclusive, not allowing people from other corporations to join their squad because they won't be generating tax revenue for the corp. |
Drevenger
DUST University Ivy League
21
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:The CPM actually made it position know on the pitfalls of not including a base tax on NPC corps, but CCP in then end can choose to not listen to feedback.
Because sometimes, feedbacks are bad.
Seriously, just put your tax rate at 0% or .5% if you are concerned. Ask for donations instead, problem solves.
Can't wait to see the tears on another wave of Awoxing.
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
866
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:37:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mamertine Son wrote:Kain Spero wrote:The CPM actually made it position know on the pitfalls of not including a base tax on NPC corps, but CCP in then end can choose to not listen to feedback. Corp tax isn't enough of reason NOT to join a corp. There are clear disadvantages with staying in an NPC corp like playing an FPS with random nobodies all day that don't even have mics. I seem to be missing something on this NPC tax debate.
No, there aren't.
If you're in the NPC corp all you're really in is a chat channel with a bunch of random nobodies that you can totally ignore for Player made chat channels where all of your friends are.
You can drop an LFS in there and get a Squad invite to play with your friends who are also in NPC corps enjoying a 0% tax rate and piling up ISK with no fear of some Director or the CEO saying "ok, we're doing a 100% tax day".
No disadvantage whatsoever to being in an NPC corp at all. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
122
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:42:00 -
[79] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:What's going to happen if this NPC tax shelter goes through is people will squad up, corporation-independent, and run "safely" from their NPC tax shelters but still enjoy the benefits of increased WPs due to squadding up, etc. People aren't going to join a corp "to feel nice" when they can just join the corp (or other group) chat channel and squad up without tax burdens from being in the player corp. Ah, but on the other hand people will become exclusive, not allowing people from other corporations to join their squad because they won't be generating tax revenue for the corp. Presuming that you can get people to join your exclusive club in the first place. NPC tax rate could have been lowered at a later date once the other player corp incentives were introduced (armories, etc.). But as it is now, what is to stop me from making "Vespa's Tax Free Squad Chat," having everyone join that, squad up, etc., and everyone just plays tax free in safety in our NPC tax shelters while still reaping the benefits of the increased WPs from squadding? I know my corp doesn't do any PC at the moment, and I know I personally am a member of several "chat cooperatives" where people from many corps join, more often than not, to make complete squads for, again, WPs and other benefits like Orbital Strikes. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:44:00 -
[80] - Quote
I like how the community is told that its feedback isn't valuable to the dev team because CCP is doing rocket science here, and then the community goes on to find to find two issues with a devblog within a few minutes of the devblog being posted.
Addendum: Let me be clear that I don't think showing the gross instead of net profit in the payout window and the economic effects of the zero tax rate is a sign of bad work at all. These are just things you can better judge when you're the person being affected. |
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Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
451
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
It's worth pointing out that with an NPC corp tax of 0%, CCP have removed entirely the ability for any CEO to fish for newbies with the 'worm' of a lower tax rate and get them 'hooked' on the social interactions of playing with friends.
If Dust is going to succeed it needs more people being hooked.
I think this powerful argument alone should be enough to warrant an NPC tax rate. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1209
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:46:00 -
[82] - Quote
omfg time stamps!!!1 finally!! |
Robert Lanate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:48:00 -
[83] - Quote
Taxes and death |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University Ivy League
57
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:52:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nothing is stopping you from making corps with 0% tax rates. If you charge taxes, you better have a good reason for it, and that reason is going to benefit all members (e.g. reimbursement programs and planetary conflict). If your corp does not provide any such benefits to its members, then it does not have any business charging taxes to begin with.
If you don't have any interests in such benefits, then you join a corp that does not offer them but a 0% tax rate instead. I really don't see the problem.
And again, it's different from EVE because (among other reasons), in EVE you get a valuable advantage by staying in an NPC corp by becoming invulnerable to war declarations. There is no incentive whatsoever to stay in an NPC corp in Dust (and tax isn't one either, because there will be plenty of corps that will charge no tax). |
Lord Echo Prime
We Who Walk Alone
6
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:54:00 -
[85] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:This brings a smile to my face.
The more transparency between Dust and Eve, the better (same as with between the Devs and the Community).
EDIT: As far as tax on NPC corps is concerned, I am still of the opinion that the tax on NPC corps should be draconian high (50% plus).
The reasoning for this is that we are little more than meat with guns, property of our corporations so why should we expect to get paid at all?
This should be the incentive for joining/making corps. 0% corp tax on NPC corps will lead to what others have already noted, people using chat channels to group up with their friends while all are in NPC corps to protect their ISK margins.
I agree with Alaika! In terms of the 0% Corp Tax of NPC corps that CCP has proposed, that doesn't even exist in the real world! A corporation makes money/ ISK from its employees working for that corporation. We are all taxed, whether it is State, Federal, or other. And as we all know, working for Big Corp XYZ may offer some benefits, but it often is at a steep price (taxes, long work hours, little vacation, etc.). Going draconian on the NPC Corp Tax of 30%-45% would become a HUGE incentive to join a PC corp or even create your own. If anything, you can bet Corporate taxes WILL become a common subject of discussion in ALL social chats, DUST and EVE alike, regardless.
As for the whole corporate taxing coming in Uprising 1.4, I welcome it! Thank you, CCP! |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
254
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
+1 to corporate taxation Please increase payouts from INSTANT BATTLES |
Kain Spero
Spero Escrow Services
1967
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Posted - 2013.08.21 20:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:It's worth pointing out that with an NPC corp tax of 0%, CCP have removed entirely the ability for any CEO to fish for newbies with the 'worm' of a lower tax rate and get them 'hooked' on the social interactions of playing with friends.
If Dust is going to succeed it needs more people being hooked.
I think this powerful argument alone should be enough to warrant an NPC tax rate.
Exactly this. Player corps are the life blood of player retention over a long time frame and economic incentives can be powerful tools and ammunition in the belts of player corp recruiters. |
Derrith Erador
Pradox One
43
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Posted - 2013.08.21 20:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:mini rehak wrote:That third screenshot, is that water? Um... actually thats just a test map. Please don't read into it. We do stupid stuff in test maps. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING COMING OUT! :(
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! why no water stuff? |
Zyanic
Fenrir's Wolves
17
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Posted - 2013.08.21 20:21:00 -
[89] - Quote
FINALLY!!! Its better than having a weekly or daily reminders going out to donate to the Corp, so now we can donate AND tax our members for ISK without having to cap Districts or empty our entire wallets out. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
123
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Posted - 2013.08.21 20:24:00 -
[90] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:I like how the community is told that its feedback isn't valuable to the dev team because CCP is doing rocket science here, and then the community goes on to find to find two issues with a devblog within a few minutes of the devblog being posted.
Addendum: Let me be clear that I don't think showing the gross instead of net profit in the payout window and the economic effects of the zero tax rate is a sign of bad work at all. These are just things you can better judge when you're the person being affected. I think if the payout meter started at 0 and went up to the maximum, 200k in the screenshot, then subtracted the corporate tax, where the final total would be the net, that system would be fine. It would work EXACTLY as the sp total window does, except instead of adding the "sp booster amount," it would subtract the corporate tax, so in the end, the totals reflect the actual payouts and sp gains.
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