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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
88
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
jamstar saa187 wrote:So this is only for the PC corps (as the Dev blog says NPC corps will have a 0% tax rate).
You got it all wrong.
It's for normal corporations. If you're a member of an NPC corp you don't get taxed. This has nothing (well, almost) to do with contract payouts ;) |
Paradoxical Nature
Goonfeet
Top Men.
39
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
Thank you, Jovians!
CorpTaxes are great news. It's the first major step!
Now, when can we have Corp Armories and Item Trading? Mmm? |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Beyond Hypothetical Box
146
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65075/1/picture3.png
Is this a water at background? |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
Alpha Wolf Pack
121
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:So if the tax rates are supposed to be the same for Eve and Dust players - then why do Dust NPC corps only charge 0% tax to Dust players but 11% to EVE players?
Not saying you should definitely bring the Dust NPC rate all the way to 11%, but if you don't make it non-zero you'll have the same issues with incentives to be in no corp as there used to be for Eve. Please can you use the existing knowledge and experience we have from Eve in this situation and re-assess? What we mean is that if a corporation has the tax rate set it will be applied the same to DUST players and EVE players in the corporation. DUST NPC corporations are different corporations than EVE NPC corporations... they are nicer. I believe he was asking why you have the NPC tax rate set to 0%, as this DIS-incentivizes someone to leave an NPC corp for a player corp with a lower tax rate.
The NPC tax shelters will just spur many players to stay in their NPC corp than join a corp where they'll be asked to pay taxes, since more likely than not, the tax rate will be GREATER THAN ZERO.
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Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
448
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:So if the tax rates are supposed to be the same for Eve and Dust players - then why do Dust NPC corps only charge 0% tax to Dust players but 11% to EVE players?
Not saying you should definitely bring the Dust NPC rate all the way to 11%, but if you don't make it non-zero you'll have the same issues with incentives to be in no corp as there used to be for Eve. Please can you use the existing knowledge and experience we have from Eve in this situation and re-assess? What we mean is that if a corporation has the tax rate set it will be applied the same to DUST players and EVE players in the corporation. DUST NPC corporations are different corporations than EVE NPC corporations... they are nicer.
Boo! Please put at least a nominal amount of tax in so that people are use to receiving a tax!
What is the reason that you decided on a 0% NPC tax rate and the implications that brings to enticing new players into player corps? |
Nguruthos IX
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1118
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
water map?
multiple islands please? |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
200
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Is there a way to identify the revenue each individual brings into the corp?
It would be a handy way to instantly identify who's actually playing or who went dead in the corp. Maybe some corps might want to reward their most active players. Just a thought. |
mini rehak
The Southern Legion
59
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote:mini rehak wrote:That third screenshot, is that water? REQUEST swimming and underwater swimming and harpoon weapons
Cmon man it's the future, Nova Harpoon Launcher. CCP make it happen! |
jamstar saa187
Imperial Populicide Legion
Alpha Wolf Pack
46
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:jamstar saa187 wrote:So this is only for the PC corps (as the Dev blog says NPC corps will have a 0% tax rate).
You got it all wrong. It's for normal corporations. If you're a member of an NPC corp you don't get taxed. This has nothing (well, almost) to do with contract payouts ;)
my bad. i took NPC to mean Non Planetary Conquest, not Non Personal Computer, which i think is what you meant |
Nguruthos IX
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1118
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:mini rehak wrote:That third screenshot, is that water? Um... actually thats just a test map. Please don't read into it. We do stupid stuff in test maps. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING COMING OUT! :(
More like you do awesome stuff in test maps and should consider making it happen =D |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
28127
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
To be clear, ISK earned from EVE pilots will go to the EVE corporation wallet and ISK earned from DUST players will go to the DUST wallet.
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2112
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs
- It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
28127
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
jamstar saa187 wrote:DeeJay One wrote:jamstar saa187 wrote:So this is only for the PC corps (as the Dev blog says NPC corps will have a 0% tax rate).
You got it all wrong. It's for normal corporations. If you're a member of an NPC corp you don't get taxed. This has nothing (well, almost) to do with contract payouts ;) my bad. i took NPC to mean Non Planetary Conquest, not Non Personal Computer, which i think is what you meant
Non Player Character, sorry. :)
As in the corporations that don't have a player CEO versus the player run corporations.
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
619
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dust Taxes = yay
Not an automatic nominal tax on NPC corporations = FAIL
Not separate tax rates for mercs/capsuleers = MEGA FAIL |
jamstar saa187
Imperial Populicide Legion
Alpha Wolf Pack
46
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Non Player Character, sorry. :)
As in the corporations that don't have a player CEO versus the player run corporations.
thanks for the clarification.
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Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1138
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mamertine Son wrote:Is there a way to identify the revenue each individual brings into the corp?
It would be a handy way to instantly identify who's actually playing or who went dead in the corp. Maybe some corps might want to reward their most active players. Just a thought.
Good question, will player's taxes show up on the wallet archive page? |
Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
449
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs
- It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation.
Then why did they decide to implement such a change for EVE NPC corps?
At least a nominal tax rate would be appropriate, I feel. Even 1% would demonstrate that corp taxes are normal. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1138
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs
- It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation. Then why did they decide to implement such a change for EVE NPC corps? At least a nominal tax rate would be appropriate, I feel. Even 1% would demonstrate that corp taxes are normal.
I imagine that when players see the page on which they are applying to a corp and see that it has a tax rate, they won't be surprised. |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
202
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:mini rehak wrote:That third screenshot, is that water? Um... actually thats .... a .... map. Please ..... read into it. We do ...... stuff in .... maps. THIS IS ... SOMETHING COMING OUT! :)
Couldn't resist...
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BursegSardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
230
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
NPC corps should have tax of 11%, like EVE. They did it to encourage memberships in corporations (and to remove people from the war-free safety). This should totally carry over. |
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Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
167
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
I must say one thing about this, though, based on the screenshot: I really wish that it was the actual payout that was featured in the middle of the big income circle, rather than the "pre-tax" payout. It's very misleading, and I can't help but imagine that even an aspiring financier like me will slip up every once in a while and record the wrong thing on my data spreadsheet. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
28127
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
Princeps Marcellus wrote:I must say one thing about this, though, based on the screenshot: I really wish that it was the actual payout that was featured in the middle of the big income circle, rather than the "pre-tax" payout. It's very misleading, and I can't help but imagine that even an aspiring financier like me will slip up every once in a while and record the wrong thing on my data spreadsheet.
You make a very valid point, especially since that is how the SP one works. I believe we are considering this a defect and filing a report on it now. :)
It's going to be a low priority thing though, so no ETA on a fix.
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
467
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mamertine Son wrote:Is there a way to identify the revenue each individual brings into the corp?
It would be a handy way to instantly identify who's actually playing or who went dead in the corp. Maybe some corps might want to reward their most active players. Just a thought.
This would be VERY handy actually. Perhaps as a running total in their info panel.
And I'm also glad that there is an inbuilt Tax threshold of 100K before paying tax. I was worried that we'd end up taxing all a mercs earnings. They should keep most of their rewards. Any plans for a CEO to raise or lower that threshold? It'll be another way for corps to differentiate themselves. |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University
Ivy League
57
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
I think not taxing NPC corps is the right decision for Dust. It's cleaner in general, and unlike EVE, it's really hard to play solo, so you already get a lot of incentive to be part of a corporation. Also, you don't get any advantages from being in an NPC corp like you do in EVE (not being able to have war declared on you).
All money from the tax should go to something that benefits the members. So if a corporation charges tax but doesn't do anything for you to make it worthwhile, you probably shouldn't be in that corp to begin with. It's going to be up to each corp to convince potential members that they make good use of the tax. If they can't, there's always the possibility to just leave tax at 0%.
Not to mention that if NPC corps would be taxed, people would immediately set up dummy 0% tax corporations that people would join for no other reason than to avoid the tax (like they already do in EVE). |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
Alpha Wolf Pack
121
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:41:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs
- It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation. This doesn't make any sense. If it's a nerf to income because it vanishes (goes to NPCs), then why does that argument fail in Eve? Surely you realize that the economy is balanced around the NPC tax rate (or lack thereof in player corps). Just bump the isk rewards if you want a zero-sum total, and THEN you'd have your zero-sum balance AND provide a reason to join a corp, which, btw, makes Dust SO much more bearable to play.
And I'm somewhat appalled by your second point. Surely you realize that people are motivated by economic reasons. What's going to happen if this NPC tax shelter goes through is people will squad up, corporation-independent, and run "safely" from their NPC tax shelters but still enjoy the benefits of increased WPs due to squadding up, etc. People aren't going to join a corp "to feel nice" when they can just join the corp (or other group) chat channel and squad up without tax burdens from being in the player corp.
Very poor decision making here, CCP, and sketchy reasoning to boot.
-1 |
Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
449
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:NPC corps should have tax of 11%, like EVE. They did it to encourage memberships in corporations (and to remove people from the war-free safety). This should totally carry over.
Actually that's a good point about the EVE NPC tax being in place a 'cost' for the benefit of being safe from war decs. Since this doesn't apply in Dust, I no longer have an issue with the 0% NPC tax rate that is planned.
Carry on CCP. |
Kain Spero
Spero Escrow Services
1956
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Regarding not charging NPC corporations we did this for 2 reasons:
- It would be a massive nerf across the board to income, the ISK just goes missing because it goes to NPCs
- It is just not a good incentive to form social groups, we would rather people form corporations to play together, not just to avoid taxation.
The problem is you have now created an economic incentive for people to not play together to avoid taxation. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
620
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Princeps Marcellus wrote:I must say one thing about this, though, based on the screenshot: I really wish that it was the actual payout that was featured in the middle of the big income circle, rather than the "pre-tax" payout. It's very misleading, and I can't help but imagine that even an aspiring financier like me will slip up every once in a while and record the wrong thing on my data spreadsheet. You make a very valid point, especially since that is how the SP one works. I believe we are considering this a defect and filing a report on it now. :) It's going to be a low priority thing though, so no ETA on a fix.
Rather than change this, you should probably clarify the "payout." For the income screen, the big circle (including the taxes) measures the real payout received from the mission. The tax is based on that, the big circle. Meanwhile, for skillpoints, the raw, pre-booster amount is the "payout," even though the booster bonus is shown as part of the pie graph.
Really, if you want it to make sense, the pre-tax and pre-booster numbers should be the ones emphasized, because those are the only numbers derived from game performance and time spent.
Currently, the design of the skillpoint display serves no purpose except to show you if you're missing out on booster points.
Basically, the whole thing needs a redesign, and I don't think the booster display should be in pie-chart format. |
Necandi Brasil
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
288
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
As someone already said ... never been so happy with taxes before, lol |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
864
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
This brings a smile to my face.
The more transparency between Dust and Eve, the better (same as with between the Devs and the Community). |
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