So we had a massive thread about corp tax a while ago (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67713). We reviewed all the feedback in that and discussed it with the CPM. For such a small feature it was quite heavily consulted on.

The real catch with having an NPC tax rate in DUST is you can easily work around it by starting a 1 man corporation to earn more ISK. We don't want to incentivise players leaving NPC corps, we want to incentivise them playing and socializing with other players by joining player corps. It is a subtle but very important distinction to make and a good example of where just copying EVE should not be the default decision.

What we will continue to work on is the concept of group earning so your tax money gets put to good use and hopefully earns you a greater return than if you just played solo in an NPC corp. The whole being greater than the sum of the parts type deal. We also have plans to help corporations recruit more effectively and share their wealth with their members, but more on this later.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

Taxes are lame! DUST514's Corporation Tax is not! Learn about an upcoming new feature to be released in Uprising 1.4 in this new dev blog from CCP Foxfour! You will be able to tax your corp members! Woo! TAXES! Fun!

So we had a massive thread about corp tax a while ago (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67713). We reviewed all the feedback in that and discussed it with the CPM. For such a small feature it was quite heavily consulted on.

The real catch with having an NPC tax rate in DUST is you can easily work around it by starting a 1 man corporation to earn more ISK. We don't want to incentivise players leaving NPC corps, we want to incentivise them playing and socializing with other players by joining player corps. It is a subtle but very important distinction to make and a good example of where just copying EVE should not be the default decision.

What we will continue to work on is the concept of group earning so your tax money gets put to good use and hopefully earns you a greater return than if you just played solo in an NPC corp. The whole being greater than the sum of the parts type deal. We also have plans to help corporations recruit more effectively and share their wealth with their members, but more on this later.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

So we had a massive thread about corp tax a while ago (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67713). We reviewed all the feedback in that and discussed it with the CPM. For such a small feature it was quite heavily consulted on.

The real catch with having an NPC tax rate in DUST is you can easily work around it by starting a 1 man corporation to earn more ISK. We don't want to incentivise players leaving NPC corps, we want to incentivise them playing and socializing with other players by joining player corps. It is a subtle but very important distinction to make and a good example of where just copying EVE should not be the default decision.

What we will continue to work on is the concept of group earning so your tax money gets put to good use and hopefully earns you a greater return than if you just played solo in an NPC corp. The whole being greater than the sum of the parts type deal. We also have plans to help corporations recruit more effectively and share their wealth with their members, but more on this later.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

You make a very valid point, especially since that is how the SP one works. I believe we are considering this a defect and filing a report on it now. :)

It's going to be a low priority thing though, so no ETA on a fix.

But as an aside, I am pleased at the development of corporation tax. It's also clear that you have put a fair amount of thought, and taken into account real feedback, when considering which decision to make fro NPC taxes. And you're making strong arguments for your position. We can only praise that you will observe real metrics, though it's hard to swallow that any new players may fall between the gaps and that there's no real comparison to be made (there will be no players in taxed NPC corps) and so it'll come down to a judgement call on whether you are happy with the metrics as they stand rather than comparing 2 approaches with evidence.

I think CCP is taking a reasonable approach to this, in many aspects. Remember that corps can't really do much for the average player right now, since CREST is not available, corp depots and roles aren't available, so it's possible that they're taking the view that they'll push players harder to join corps once there's more support available to those player-run corps.

Taxes are lame! DUST514's Corporation Tax is not! Learn about an upcoming new feature to be released in Uprising 1.4 in this new dev blog from CCP Foxfour! You will be able to tax your corp members! Woo! TAXES! Fun!

Actually I will add one more thought to this discussion, our design decisions are heavily metrics based these days. We are tracking the progression of players joining player corporations and will be watching how this data is affected after this change.

If it turns out to be the wrong call and we see a big drop then we will of course review why and make additional changes.

your decisions should be player feedback based....we know better... how many times will you stick your hand in the fire before you accept it burns....

corp taxes are good... but with just a tax introduced and no incentives to join a corp...like hangars or training grounds, it will be misconstrued as a punishment for joining a corp... however if you put a high tax on NPC corps you have incentivized joining a player corp...

im sorry but your metrics are broken and lack logic.

Game design isn't a democratic process and merely adhering to players' clamour for any particular action isn't sensible.

*If* you are correct in your assertions you should look to make convincing arguments and not just tell CCP what to do and ask them to count how many other people agree.

I'm sorry, but your faculties for logic and rhetoric are lacking.

You will NOT have to reset it, the tax rate will already be set and ready to go! :D

I did make a convincing argument... also their metrics don't work better than feedback... proven.... apology accepted

Edit: sometimes a convincing argument doesn't require a wall of text... I challenge you to counter the argument I put forth instead of criticizing my valid attempt to save CCP some heartache and trouble

It's 2 decimal places in EVE, we kept it the same for consistency seeing as they are the same tax figure.

What you are me for is nonsensical. In addition your first sentence is a complete non-sequitur, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised?

I was not criticising the position you advocate; since I am actually advocating it also. So it makes no sense for you to ask me to counter your argument.

I was criticising your approach of appeal-to-the-people - where you stated that because it was player feedback then it was obviously better quality than anything else (i.e. 'metrics'). This is a fallacious argument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Instead, I am advising you to use convincing logic (and not fallacious argument) to back up your position.

I don't even see the need for discussion or feedback if the "metrics" are all CCP is concerned about. Probably the same metrics that told them 400 WP was a good idea for the Academy...

ok...you must be new... we have been ignored long enough that the niceties you request have been tried till our heads bleed from the wall we bang them into.... even the CPM acknowledges ccp's lack of any real back and forth communication do want links?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101452&find=unread

some valid threads that were ignored yet right regardless of the delivery?


https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70696&find=unread


https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70755&find=unread

my point is it has never mattered how we convey the truth...CCP is blind to it... why because they simply don't trust us.

CCP Greyscale was fairly clear on what metrics they used to determine the 400 WP total: namely, that they wanted players to be in the Academy for 3-5 matches, and the average newbro makes ~50-100 WP per match.

I think the 400 WP didn't make any sense, though, because the metrics don't likely account for players hanging out and messing around shooting their teammates deep in the redline, not leaving the MCC, etc. Changing it to 1500 and then to 2000 today are steps in the right direction. Changing it to Skirmish, well, we'll have to see. After I was very critical of the choice to make it Domination, in actuality, I think it gives some very needed direction for newbros in that there's a single objective (capture the only checkpoint) and the fact that there's a single objective means that there's going to be many targets around that checkpoint to shoot, giving newbros lots of opportunities to learn the shooting mechanics of this fledgling FPS.

With the corporate tax shelters, though, CCP is hurting competitive advantages player corps could offer, and its already been well explained that solo players wishing to do so will stay in NPC corps with 0% OR create their own corp with 0% tax either way. It's not combatting this solo behavior so much as hurting social player corps.