As I walk through the valley of the shadow of Dust, I will fear no murder taxi. For Lai Dai's are with me

Yeah, sometimes their acceleration is too ridiculous for words but it doesn't bother me too much outside of the occasional AV nade missing the mark, which is perfectly normal.

I would maybe be in favor of a minor tweak, for the sake of the true LAVs being lighter and more nimble than the working man's LLAV in most fits, but overall I feel like they're not terrible, just abused.

Couldn't disagree more.

They used to be coffins because a single AV nade would kill it before it got to you. They are murder taxis now because they have enough health to get through that single AV nade. Even if you're prepared for handling one, if you happen to be on about 90% of a Dust map where you're in an open field, you're looking at a pretty high likelihood of getting bumpered.

I don't think LAVs should die in a single nade. But I also don't think LAVs should be feared because of their front bumper, not the gun on top. That's why the perfect solution (that everyone seems to disagree with for some unexplainable reason) is to remove collision damage from LAVs.

LAVs weren't UP, if they were it was just barely. I think we ran them together often enough to know that.

Removing collision damage just feels like too much of a bandaid. Skydivers don't have the ability to just turn off fall damage to make it more convenient to sky dive and it would feel kind of cheap if they just removed the damage of being hit at 80mph by a 3 ton vehicle

Nah, the LLAV back then is no different from the LLAV now except for popularity and handling. Literally no one ever saw LLAVs back in Chromosome. All you saw were Starter Fits, the ones that could get taken out by one nade.

I rocked a tanked Methana in chromosome and it was no coffin on wheels at all. It had jumped up resistances and polycrystalline plates up the yin yang. The thing got me orbitals from turret kills and roadkills. It could eat up a forge and railgun shot like rice krispies.

but toning down acceleration to a median of Chromosome and Uprising seems like a close to reasonable fix before the community tears LAVs to nothing again.

Removing collision damage just feels like too much of a bandaid. Skydivers don't have the ability to just turn off fall damage to make it more convenient to sky dive and it would feel kind of cheap if they just removed the damage of being hit at 80mph by a 3 ton vehicle

Its a video game.
On that same point of "feeling kind of cheap", the lack of friendly fire 'feels kind of cheap.' I mean, you're shooting the same bullets, why does it matter what target it hits? Oh... because it would be exploited in a way that would make the game less fun?

....

This bumper cars **** is a clear example of shoddy game design. I'm sure CCP didn't expect or want it to be playing out the way that it is, but that's why they need to reconsider some things and make some gameplay improving tweaks.

Yes but you see the reason why they are so good at charging people is because they have superman acceleration right now. Chromosome, you deserved the roadkill. Uprising? Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Nah not quite, im in favor of FF myself but it hasn't been a part of this game for the longest so it's a little different IMO. Yeah I think it cheapens the game, but it's either ON or OFF so I dont think it's up for as much interpretation as the LAV's and whatnot.

Its ON for enemy bullets, grenades, turrets, etc. Its OFF for collision to promote the LAVs to be used as light armored troop transports with a gun on top.

In what way, other than the cattle cry of "it doesn't make sense", would this not totally and utterly fix LAVs to be what they're described as by CCP?

As a frontline Logi and occasional LLAV turret gunner, I think that LAVs are fine as is. Since the removal of free cars, I am seeing more Saga murder-taxi's than LLAV murder-taxi's. Yes, I DO get pissed when I am run over, BUT it reminds me to check my play style and then adapt-and-overcome. Play with a good squad and you will fear no one!!! No murder-taxi, HAV, HMG, or redline sniper!! Our squad regularly takes down all types of vehicles!! Heck, just last night we took down 2 Charybids in one match. And as an added bonus, they were in the enemy spawn AND we hacked them!! There are many more options than just sitting around getting run over and then complaining. Just my $.02 ISK.
Diabolito

Oh yeah we knew, but everyone else just didn't think like us. I'm trying to appease the community within reason to save the LAV. People are trying to remove collision damage and health!

Have you ever tried operating an LAV turret while it was moving? It's impossible, and then LAVs would be UP because the wouldn't be able to move and kill that heavy with a forge in the road. They'd have to come to a crawl for the turret to get it and by then KABOOM. People would find exploits (standing in front, getting pushed and while getting pushed headshot the driver.

I like LAVs too (don't drive em so much) but people are going to have their nerf one way or another and this acceleration nerf I propose seems like the best interest for all. Cuts down on "OPness" of LAV roadkills while keeping LAVs at a good place.

You can't fix stupid. Most of the community never learn for themselves, but instead chase the FOTM.
How much do you wanna bet lasers are next (again)?

May be good since there is the option to skill up overdrive and nitrous. This could bring the acceleration back up to what it is now allowing a 'perk' to those that decide to put all their skillpoints into vehicles.

Diabolito

That's why I said that I want the gunner to be much more protected. It makes no sense that the design of the future vehicle gives its soldiers less protection than a modern real world LAV gives. The Dust mercs are basically using Somalian Technicals.

If you have a similar amount of (or even a little more) armor, and the gunner isn't so exposed, the LAV could stop, the gunner could be used to suppress, and everyone else could jump out, capture the point, then ride off happily into the sunset. Instead of this barreling into a base, hoping to clip someone with your side view mirror for 10,000 health nonsense.

And your forge gun example is silly. You just described a situation where the LAV should lose. The whole point of the forge gun is to take out vehicles.

That's why I said that I want the gunner to be much more protected. It makes no sense that the design of the future vehicle gives its soldiers less protection than a modern real world LAV gives. The Dust mercs are basically using Somalian Technicals.

If you have a similar amount of (or even a little more) armor, and the gunner isn't so exposed, the LAV could stop, the gunner could be used to suppress, and everyone else could jump out, capture the point, then ride off happily into the sunset. Instead of this barreling into a base, hoping to clip someone with your side view mirror for 10,000 health nonsense.

And your forge gun example is silly. You just described a situation where the LAV should lose. The whole point of the forge gun is to take out vehicles.

250,000 ISK it's SMGs.
Anyways, I remember the good ol days and I like the current physics, but you know, I'm willing to compromise to prevent what happened to so many weapons and dropsuits. Nerfed out of existence.

250,000 ISK it's SMGs.
Anyways, I remember the good ol days and I like the current physics, but you know, I'm willing to compromise to prevent what happened to so many weapons and dropsuits. Nerfed out of existence.

Wanna give me my ISK right now? Went 15/3 with a completely standard laser fit; 2 deaths were because I ran out of ammo.
Dumbass AR users didn't even try getting into CQC. They just stood still and shot back at my optimal.

And force LAVs to take damage from a full speed hit. Not bumper damage but engine and underside fire damage from running over the person. Make the LAV have to pay too for a dumbed down kill.

Couldn't disagree more.

They used to be coffins because a single AV nade would kill it before it got to you. They are murder taxis now because they have enough health to get through that single AV nade. Even if you're prepared for handling one, if you happen to be on about 90% of a Dust map where you're in an open field, you're looking at a pretty high likelihood of getting bumpered.

I don't think LAVs should die in a single nade. But I also don't think LAVs should be feared because of their front bumper, not the gun on top. That's why the perfect solution (that everyone seems to disagree with for some unexplainable reason) is to remove collision damage from LAVs.

like im gona stop my LAV right when im about to kill you in the middle of the road so i can switch places from driver seat , to passanger seat and the turret so i can kill you with LAV turret...untill i do that you gone , oh and lets not forget that when you switch to turret from driver seat you get the turret camera looking back of the LAV not ahead like the turret show

like im gona stop my LAV right when im about to kill you in the middle of the road so i can switch places from driver seat , to passanger seat and the turret so i can kill you with LAV turret...untill i do that you gone , oh and lets not forget that when you switch to turret from driver seat you get the turret camera looking back of the LAV not ahead like the turret shows

you CANNOT remove damage colision

do you know the difference betewen blunt and piercing damage?

srsly , your crusade against LAV's is boring and without any valid facts

go play a FPS without vehicules or adapt

Sounds like you should go play a single player FPS, homie.

I'm all for nerfing the maneuverability in making a turn and enlarging the collision box (or whatever you call it).

Also, acceleration is way to quick. What are these things, Formula 1 race cars?

LAV's shouldn't be able to use the hardeners, resistance mods etc to pad their health WAY above what the intel states. They should be like dropsuits, if the health says 3000 HP for shields, then that is what it ought to be. Rather than how it is now, it says 3000 HP, but with all the mods activated, is really 15k worth of HP.

The sad thing is almost no LAV drivers fit them for anything other than murder taxiing. No one realizes how good the blaster on an LAV can be, 3 or 4 days ago I was gunning in my corp mates LAV and went 48-1. Saga, 2 damage mods, protoblaster and I don't even have any of the small turret skills the funny thing was my one death was a redline suicide when we got greedy trying to get a sniper.

LAV driver in both chrome and uprise here.

Here's the problems and differences I see.

First, in chrome LLAV was level 5 LAV x8 multiplier which next to no one went for due to meths and sagas unlocking at level 1 and there being no advantage to level 2, 3, and 4. It was a hell of an SP sink for something that was considered a moving death trap.

Second. I had pimped out meths and sagas. Running close to 200k. These things were beast and most games that I pulled them out I would keep them. However, there was no return, and there was another trap that I'll touch on next.

Third. In chrome, often an enemy would get stuck in your grill immobilizing you until he faded out. You were a sitting duck for as much as 20 seconds. This never happens now.

And last, the shield resistance on the cal LLAV is ridiculous. 36% natural? On a vehicle that can tank up to ~3k? Fitted right this think can have over 5k effective shield.

I have no problems killing armor LLAVs, but the Cal is practically indestructible.

not true. I do know the insiders who continue to use LAVs around turrets and teamwork. However I can almost guarantee; if it's Charybdis, it's a Murder Taxi.


Ok, again I don't want to talk about the merits of Health on LAVs, I want to talk acceleration talk.
However since you were a fellow LAV chromosome driver I can respect your opinion/take it seriously but I would really want your opinion on the acceleration nerf discussed in the first post because you, like your fellows, would understand better than most.

I humbly disagree. Currently, as a turret gunner in a LAV, I can regularly get 6+ kills per match. What you need is a good driver that is willing to give up his/her 'free' kill and put you right up on a target. Then they need to watch your health as you go to town, and lastly, get you out of harms way in time. The driver I ride with most of the time actually jokes about being mad at me for regularly getting more kills than him in HIS vehicle. Again, skill, good fits, and lots of practice make for a better player and les QQing. Again, my experience and YMMV.

Diabolito

I think if they brought back the mercs in wheel wells that would be enough to fix the murder taxi problem. Right now fools can call in LLAVs with little or no fear of losing a 200k investment. If they were were under the constant threat of losing that kind of ISK every time they ran over someone, the problem go away.

Has anyone tried using counter-LAVs? I've got a Methana with a compressed railgun that I bring out whenever the Reds have too many LAVs. It can take out most in just a few shots and I can occasionally snipe the driver out of his seat. The only problems I have with this tactic are those damn seat-hogging blueberries.

Everyone is wrong unless they mentioned Lavs being almost nearly impossible to drive.

Late in chromosome we discovered jovians made lavs handle with some consistency and the murder taxi was born.

av grenade fix, lav HP increase, bored tankers, all this helped make it popular.

Murder taxi was born in chromosome.

Murder taxi in Chromosome was called [Starter Fit] and was spammed because it was free but was paper soft.
Basically no one had an LAV above Militia, and even fewer with LLAVs.
Chromosome's murder taxi business was chicken **** compared to Uprising's.

My saga from chrome disagrees.

Granted you had to hit them directly with your hood or with rear tires during a slideout out of fear from the wheel well trap.

It's just gotten more popular and slightly easier. Ever wince the jovian discovery the murder taxi existed.

Talking about reworking AV and vehicles, it seems to me who has not had much experience with AV grendades but has used every other AV weapon that AV grenades are OP. If you toned down AV grenades and brought them in line with designated primary AV weapons (forge, swarm, and yes - even PC) which by definition should be more effective than AV grenades, only then can we start talking about nerfing/toning down vehicles - primarily LAVs.

Couldn't disagree more.

They used to be coffins because a single AV nade would kill it before it got to you. They are murder taxis now because they have enough health to get through that single AV nade. Even if you're prepared for handling one, if you happen to be on about 90% of a Dust map where you're in an open field, you're looking at a pretty high likelihood of getting bumpered.

I don't think LAVs should die in a single nade. But I also don't think LAVs should be feared because of their front bumper, not the gun on top. That's why the perfect solution (that everyone seems to disagree with for some unexplainable reason) is to remove collision damage from LAVs.

What was the key factor in transition from chromosome to Uprising that turned UP to "OP"?
Acceleration.
Last build LAVs did not go from 0 to 60 in 1.4 seconds, but now they do.
Last build you only got run over if you were in their way. Now it's like playing matador, you dodge them, turn and they've already turned around and going damn fast.

However we can't just send LAVs back to the dark ages, even though I found a couple successful Methana fits back then, the physics were wack and handling was terrible.

To solve this Murder Taxi business just tone down the acceleration and leave road-kill business to Scout LAVs, because at least their lack of health explains the acceleration.

Back in the day LAVs were UP. Take notes of the transition and you can identify what went wrong.
This is technically a nerf to LAVs but I think we can find acceleration nerf in good taste.
In terms of how much I'd say less acceleration than now, more than Chromosome.

2 solutions when combines would fix the murder taxi problem:

1) collision damage works both ways, since you are ramming a super suit it would make sence that the LAV should take substancial damage when ramming one, a 1:1 correlation would fix using LAV's as murder taxi's would end quick with this change.

2) On top of that CCP should bring back having the bodies of the LAV victims getting stuck in the LAV's wheels forcing the LAV to a crawl while it grinds away the reamians of the body. I think removing this mechanic is the prome reason LAV's have been so successful in Uprising. LAV's (especially LLAV's) have a tremendous amount of tank to go along with enough speed to escape even the best AV weapons. With this mechaninc in place LAV's will think twice before running into a pack of players as they might become a sitting duck for a few seconds.

Ok but lets remember the Chromosome days and what not to fall back on.

People say collision damage should be remove or mutual etc, but think of collision attacks as no more than the Vehicle melee. Let's also remember that:
LAV Health > The Best Heavy's Health

I think that collision mechanics are just a part of the world of vehicles, I've been run over by a tank for god's sake (did not appear on radar fast enough). Now I understand LAVs chief protection is their speed and agility but you can't nerf the LAV health without boosting speed/agility.

Back in early chromosome, I outfitted a Jovian on my Methana and discovered that I could outrun swarm launchers.
That is not very possible anymore and people speak of nerfing the health of LAVs, primarily because of LLAVs.



People are not roadkilled because of vehicle health. If that was so, the HAV would be the roadkill king. The root of roadkilling is speed and agility. So here's my suggestion:
-Reduce overall acceleration of LAVs, let Scout LAVs remain untouched. Nerf to between Chromosome and Uprising.
-Reduce top speed and acceleration off LLAVs further. Their health must come at a mobility price.
+Buff Acceleration Module Efficacy
-Nerf PG/CPU requirements conservatively on said modules
This way acceleration is not deleted from the books but it comes as an alternative to health. Allow these modules to outrun swarms so mobility is still available if not even more so but it comes at a price of health and whatnots.

Some people rely on the Light part in LAV, the agility and speed. Others rely on the Armor part in LAV, being able sustain a good amount of damage before bookin' it (when I say rely on armor I mean to a degree, otherwise they'd be HAV drivers). They are Light Armor Vehicles and will always be sub-HAV health but always have superior agility and whatnot.

I like this idea, one thing still bothers me though. I thought they were called Light Attack Vehicles, not Light Armor Vehicles.

Thats fine! Nerf my LAV! I will drag your azzes to the redzone!

If collision damage is removed, then people who are hit should not be able to
-move
-shoot
-reload
-jump
-see
-throw grenades
-enter any vehicle if nearby

People who are hit should have the same thing happen to them as when a teammate rams them.

You get pushed around, its annoying as hell, then you move on with your day.

People who are hit should have the same thing happen to them as when a teammate rams them.

You get pushed around, its annoying as hell, then you move on with your day.

thats because there is no FF , crusader boy