GÇ£It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.GÇ¥
GÇò Chuck Palahniuk

Reg, if players like you have their way there would only be AR's. Let the game have some diversity. Nerf lasers much? Flux is lame maybe. Flaylock waaaa! Contact grenades...MOMMMMMMM!
Weapons have pros and cons. The cons to the MD are range and travel time. It is quite arrogant to claim other weapons noob because you deem so. List the pros and cons and work on constructive criticism.

I will start...the MD has travel time, I have to predict where you will be in order to be successful.(bunny hoppers hate this because gravity is predictable...bunny hop much ;(... )The MD can rarely be effective in combat unless given high ground in engagements more then 40 meters. MD reload is long and often. MD users have short supply of ammo so they become tied to nano hive or resupplies. The AR can actually kill at ranges twice the effective rate of MD...Back off bro?

I respect your play not your arrogance. I concede 1v1 your skill is rarely matched but...this is far from a 1v1 game...TEAMPLAYERS much. Your rage bleeds the truth that you only respect gameplay that only mirrors your own. For the love of diversity think before you rage.

GÇ£He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.GÇ¥
GÇò Abraham Lincoln

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity"- Abraham Lincoln

OP, the game should be balanced around assault rifles, and when you have a weapon that requires little skills to use and throws off aim each time it hits, that creates problems for people who are actually trying to aim a gun.

flux and MD is even worse of a skilless gimmick.

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity"- Abraham Lincoln

OP, the game should be balanced around assault rifles, and when you have a weapon that requires little skills to use and throws off aim each time it hits, that creates problems for people who are actually trying to aim a gun.

flux and MD is even worse of a skilless gimmick.

He is crying about it because he can't stand being killed by anything that he isn't using himself.

It's simple really. Some people don't have any tolerance for diversity. They won't be happy until they turn DUST into a1v1 dueling match so they can demonstrate their elite shooting skills.

They can't stand the thought of a messy battlefield where they may die because someone got the drop on them with a situational weapon. They rage whenever they die to anyone they don't consider as elite as themselves. They compensate by deriding anything other than their choice of weapon as "noob" weapon. That way they don't have to take responsibility for having died and their fragile ego can remain intact.

The sad thing is that they can actually be quite good shots. Skill doesn't necessarily factor into who is going to fall prey to this way of thinking. In their mind every battle should be an exactly even contest, mano a mano. If you shotgun them in the face or MD them from a roof you are lousy cheating scum who is using a noob weapon to win, because you certainly couldn't beat them if you were using their weapon (like a real man).

The only cure is to realize that DUST is modeling a messy battlefield with many different weapon systems that all have different strengths and weaknesses and if you die to one it doesn't necessarily mean you are "bad" or that your teammates should laugh at you. It shouldn't threaten your ego if you get popped by a shotgun to the face.

Just let the rage go and enjoy the diversity that is DUST.

GÇ£It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.GÇ¥
GÇò Chuck Palahniuk

Reg, if players like you have their way there would only be AR's. Let the game have some diversity. Nerf lasers much? Flux is lame maybe. Flaylock waaaa! Contact grenades...MOMMMMMMM!
Weapons have pros and cons. The cons to the MD are range and travel time. It is quite arrogant to claim other weapons noob because you deem so. List the pros and cons and work on constructive criticism.

I will start...the MD has travel time, I have to predict where you will be in order to be successful.(bunny hoppers hate this because gravity is predictable...bunny hop much ;(... )The MD can rarely be effective in combat unless given high ground in engagements more then 40 meters. MD reload is long and often. MD users have short supply of ammo so they become tied to nano hive or resupplies. The AR can actually kill at ranges twice the effective rate of MD...Back off bro?

I respect your play not your arrogance. I concede 1v1 your skill is rarely matched but...this is far from a 1v1 game...TEAMPLAYERS much. Your rage bleeds the truth that you only respect gameplay that only mirrors your own. For the love of diversity think before you rage.

GÇ£He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.GÇ¥
GÇò Abraham Lincoln

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity"- Abraham Lincoln

OP, the game should be balanced around assault rifles, and when you have a weapon that requires little skills to use and throws off aim each time it hits, that creates problems for people who are actually trying to aim a gun.

flux and MD is even worse of a skilless gimmick.

"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss

to all the whiners whining about their fits getting nerfed

"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again." --Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

George Bush

**** it!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA that was awesome.

I agree with Zdub regarding what should be done with explosives but I also am not as hopeful as Zdub that CCP will actually do the right thing.

As such I resign myself to proposing the reduction of AOE for this weapon as 8+ meter AOE is just crazy high. You can miss people so badly that you accidentally shoot the enemy MCC and still get the person you were aiming for with the splash dmg.

Question: where was all this public posting against Regnum when he was in NF?
cuz i swear when Reg and Protoman post the exact same stuff hes posting now saw alot of Yes men agreeing with everything they said. Now hes not in NF and im seeing a few NF now voicing out against some posts he has and tbh his posts havent changed.

so question why the sudden public outcry against ppl like reg?

"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again." --Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

George Bush

. "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."

I run a heavy and the flaylock and MD slay me in open fields. But in CQ often a miss or two from the MD gives me plenty of time to spray enough to make a fair battle

I honestly don't think you're convinced by what you're saying. I also don't know what you mean by a miss or two from the MD. Given the heavy's huge hit box, there is no way an MD shot would miss you, if not directly then by splash damage.

A noob tube is a noob tube, and that's that. If a game like COD doesn't give you the option to resupply its ammo, I don't know what CCP are thinking by giving it 6 rounds. It is really no different than the flaylock pre nerf. Its only "supposedly" redeeming factor is "oh but it requires CPU and PG like a main weapon" ... I say bullshit. I can't wait for the dual MD wielding commandos to surface, only then you might agree with the rest of those calling for its nerf.

Question: where was all this public posting against Regnum when he was in NF?
cuz i swear when Reg and Protoman post the exact same stuff hes posting now saw alot of Yes men agreeing with everything they said. Now hes not in NF and im seeing a few NF now voicing out against some posts he has and tbh his posts havent changed.

so question why the sudden public outcry against ppl like reg?

Doesn't change the fact that the MD is a crutch weapon.

Doesn't change the fact it is situation.
I think the Ar is the easiest slayer weapon. If in skirmish or ambush one wants to be top kills the Ar is the easiest to succeed with..given a mobile suit.

Now lets play a game of what is fact...rather theory, observable response repeated in predictable manner.

AR is on top on kill boards.
The same player using MD or AR... AR is better to be on top kill boards.
Is it a crutch weapon? What does that mean? I assume you mean a non skilled player can do better with it. But can he if he is slayed from an AR from a distance that he can not return fire from? Are you then telling me all these pros are mad that a noob can kill them? In a situation that favors the noob does it not make sense a noob should kill them? IE on a table top with a pub stomper below him.

Heaven forbid noobs discover REs and a pro gets one shotted. "Waaaaaaa, he blew me up with one hit...that weapon that killed me is noob. NERF it."

Because of the beerorcacy negative feedback was always you free to have your own view as long its the same of ours. I am not supprised at all that Nf members are speaking out. I like everyone in NF but my god it was **** if were not In with the cool kids

Nice to see posting doc. You should join foxhound very strong group it turns out :-)

LOL steady I dont know why you would say this as this is an obvious lie. I have bumped heads several times with some of the guys in NF on the forums. Honestly the problem with the MD is there is no falloff dmg based on distance from the explosive and the AOE is way too large for there to be no falloff dmg. 9 Meter radius (6 for regular MD) is just rediculous. If you cant hit someone or have a hard time hitting someone in that blast radius then you just plainly suck. I dont mind AOE weapons most of the time but when they have a rediculous AOE................it just becomes ret@rded.

Fiddle,
You run MD, so the cons of range and reload and situation balance or not balance general game play? I know sometimes you just can not fight someone...like when you have low ground...it takes a miracle to hit someone weaving on high ground. Are not these aspects of balance?

I appreciate the thoughtful responses. Perhaps the armor bonus needs a tune up. I tank on an alt and swarms destroy armor tanks. Perhaps the MD does... I just want an honest appraisal of the weapon and its many ignored weaknesses. Such as the swarm, it can not touch infantry, making a strong side arm required. So it's power against vehicles makes sense to me.

I hesitate to nerf only because of the situation strength. I run a heavy and the flaylock and MD slay me in open fields. But in CQ often a miss or two from the MD gives me plenty of time to spray enough to make a fair battle. In open field the AR teammates slay the MD. Let us look at manus peak. 3 point map. A mass driver is useless in the assault from C to B or vice versa because of the open field he has to cross. But let him guard the letter from a high point and now he is OP. Many weapons are OP in situation and UP in others.
Then there is the AR that can excel in all situations...not OP though. So 1 weapon is great in all situations (except sniper range) and then there are weapons that are OP in 1 situation but UP in another.

My concern is the removal of the OP for the sake of fairness then creating the laser situation.
You must admit the MD user sacrifices many engagements that the AR would engage but because of the dynamics of the MD they have to pass it up or die.

Why is it a bunch of whiney EoN bitches in here crying about the MD. The thing has hardly any ammo, and you have to arc it for get a hit at all but close up. If you let me get close enough to you to 2 shot you with a flux md combo you deserved to die in the first place.

LOL IF U LET FLAYLOCK GET 2 CLOSE ITS UR FAULT HURRRR DURRR

spoken like a true skilless mass driver user


LOL IF U LET FLAYLOCK GET 2 CLOSE ITS UR FAULT HURRRR DURRR

Well, duh... you gonna cry about shotguns next?

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity"- Abraham Lincoln

OP, the game should be balanced around assault rifles, and when you have a weapon that requires little skills to use and throws off aim each time it hits, that creates problems for people who are actually trying to aim a gun.

flux and MD is even worse of a skilless gimmick.

yeah i'm sure it's really easy to kill someone who's shooting rapidly at your feet, taking chunks of your HP, and throwing off your aim with each hit....while using an assault rifle that doesn't register 30%+ of it's bullets

clearly mass driver users are the epitome of skill

I do agree the nades need to be reworked....specifically the flux nade as it ignores objects between you and the nade and it does not have the 5 second fuse like it should....so its virtually a contact nade for shields.

while using an assault rifle that doesn't register 30%+ of it's bullets

Lord help us (if)when they revive the laser rifle but for now we should be careful not to murder diversity in our crusade for balance.

Claps doc you have a wonderful thread people please carry on.
My view the AR is the every man guns ok at everything but bill at nothing.

Where as the mass drive is I'm going to take point and u can't stop me. But if u engage from range here is the white flag :-)

"KDR < Everything" Michael Jackson

It is amazing at the amount of tears produced, when someone merely suggest a tweak this broken weapon.

The assault rifle... cough 60 round noob tube, is by far one stupidest weapons implemented in Dust 514. Furthermore, the fact that AR will screw up your aim is ridiculous. Furthermore, how is AR+Flux not broken? Flux nades have do need to be cooked and the AR does not need aiming skills

"KDR > Everything" Michael Jackson

It is amazing at the amount of tears produced, when someone merely suggest a tweak this broken weapon.

The mass driver... cough 6 round noob tube, is by far one stupidest weapons implemented in Dust 514. Furthermore, the fact that MD will screw up your aim is ridiculous. Furthermore, how is MD+Flux not broken? Flux nades do not need even need to be cooked and the MD does not require aim

"KDR > Everything" Michael Jackson

It is amazing at the amount of tears produced, when someone merely suggest a tweak this broken weapon.

The mass driver... cough 6 round noob tube, is by far one stupidest weapons implemented in Dust 514. Furthermore, the fact that MD will screw up your aim is ridiculous. Furthermore, how is MD+Flux not broken? Flux nades have do need to be cooked and the MD does not need aiming skills

although i am not in support of using mass drivers as they infuriate me when they kill me, an immediate argument we can bring up is how is shield tanking vs armor tanking not broken

shield tanking has no significant drawbacks, no penalties for doing so. not to mention the lack of anti shield weapons

armor tanking has several, major movement speed penalties, slow to NO armor regen without sacrificing an armor slot to a repper, most of the weapons do more damage to armor rather than shield and so on

Have you ever played a good Armour tanker?

Armour can DPS

Armour can roid mode with triage hives

shall I go on?

really? 17% more damage? you can regen fast as hell take cover for 10 secs back to full health

"KDR > Everything" Michael Jackson

It is amazing at the amount of tears produced, when someone merely suggest a tweak this broken weapon.

The mass driver... cough 6 round noob tube, is by far one stupidest weapons implemented in Dust 514. Furthermore, the fact that MD will screw up your aim is ridiculous. Furthermore, how is MD+Flux not broken? Flux nades do not need even need to be cooked and the MD does not require aim

Yup, you've definitely got it backwards. We're fine with how the MD vs. AR game is now. You're the one who's QQ'ing and crying all over the forums about how you got owned by a Mass Driver.

if they have their way dust will become a repetitive cod ripoff

CCP needs to figure out how aiming and moving works first so I doubt it.

Yup, you've definitely got it backwards. We're fine with how the MD vs. AR game is now. You're the one who's QQ'ing and crying all over the forums about how you got owned by a Mass Driver.

What AR are you using? Mine works fine, and so does my MD.

It's Hilarious
You use this weapon you're evil!
You're a (Insert weapon name) using scrub!
Forum warriors battle for three weeks...

heres an absurdly easy fix to the ARs being OP statement, just remove them. that instantly requires people to gain actual skill in a weapon that isnt a win button


edit- let the AR user hate flow in

i have a duvolle with level 5 sharpshooter and a 6400 DPI mouse.

i KNOW i'm not missing my shots, especially when I get hit markers on someone with 5 HP left and they don't die.

Make the AR become less accurate (Even with ADS) the longer it fires, lower it's range (20 meters optimal 50 effective), increase DPS make the normal AR breach weapon and make a stabilized variant that takes more PG/CPU but has the stats of the current one but is more accurate but still loses accuracy through continous fire.

Make the AR become less accurate (Even with ADS) the longer it fires, lower it's range (20 meters optimal 50 effective), increase DPS make the normal AR breach weapon and make a stabilized variant that takes more PG/CPU but has the stats of the current one but is more accurate but still loses accuracy through continous fire.

i hopped on my cousins account for him whilst he was of in lala land doing something of utmost importance, he is an AR user so i decided to try it out, something i found odd was that i was more accurate while i was strafing+hipfiring on moing and non moving targets than i was when i would crouch and ADS on non moving targets

You should see what proficency 5, 2 damage mods and sharpshooter 3 does.

Still, what about the proposed fixes?

100 m absolute range

what it is up with all of these irrelevant players complaining about the AR? have they even gone against a full 16 man game filled with pros that use the hmg's, AV work, mass drivers, ar's,ScR's, tanks,flux, cores, grenades, team work, to its full potential? bunch of arrogant noobs dont know that everything has potential they just dont see it.

the only thing that needs a buff is the damn plasma cannon that thing blows

Who are you to be talking about nobodies? Must we get Cosgar with the MD or SoTa to troll you?

lmao i am guessing you are not an AR user and i dont even know you.

Internet Connection? How often do you DC? I had a shitty modem and replacing it made my hit detection get better.

it's wired, i almost never disconnect. I guarantee it's the game's hit detection issues.

That's a pretty weak defense for the massdriver.

yeah i'm sure it's really easy to kill someone who's shooting rapidly at your feet, taking chunks of your HP, and throwing off your aim with each hit....while using an assault rifle that doesn't register 30%+ of it's bullets

clearly mass driver users are the epitome of skill

My biggest problem is the insane damage they do to armor. They 1-2 shot anyone who gets into armor no matter the amount they have. Combining this weapon with the enourmouse blast radius of the proto flux and you have a combination that makes you invincible in any engagement.

My biggest qualm with the weapon is how badly it breaks armor tanking, the weapon single handedly makes armor tanking terrible as any one player with a basic mass driver can 2 shot you if you do not omnitank. The only time an AR has an advantage over a MD in combat is when the AR has the high ground on a ledge. Doing only spash damage and not landing a single direct hit it takes 4 shots to completely deplete most shield based logi's and assault's shields (3 if they are an armor tanked race) and takes only 1 shot to finish off the armor. Leaving 1 round to completely miss. Thats a lot of damage when you consider that isn't factoring in a single direct hit, and the weapon has a 4.4m blast radius!

Really the biggest change I would like to see is a 2m blast radius and changing the effeciency to +- 5-10% on shields and armor so that it's not a free kill on all gallante.

"KDR > Everything" Michael Jackson

It is amazing at the amount of tears produced, when someone merely suggest a tweak this broken weapon.

The mass driver... cough 6 round noob tube, is by far one stupidest weapons implemented in Dust 514. Furthermore, the fact that MD will screw up your aim is ridiculous. Furthermore, how is MD+Flux not broken? Flux nades do not need even need to be cooked and the MD does not require aim

But in ten seconds, the AR does 4x the damage of theassdriver even with direct hits, let alone splash. How is the mass driver OP ILif it can never come close to the damage of the AR? Also, you can't say "you don't have to aim" because all you have to Adonis stay beyond 40m or be uphill and the mass driver is virtually useless. You're a very bad player if you have this much problem withfighting an MD....or u r armor tanked and that is your fault when shields are obviously better. You might as well spec iintoo the lolcannon while you are meeting yourself.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken." - Colonel Sanders

I love how people defend the mASS driver like its supposed to stack up to other guns 1v1. It's a no skill AOE weapon with a 4.4m blast radius. It shouldn't also be 1v1 nuke.

As an occational MD user I personally thins that it should be dialed back a bit.

Personally I would suggest 4 rounds for the standard (EXO-5 and Freedom) and 6 rounds for the assault variants.

This should come with at least a little more base ammo and a slightly quicker eload speed, 4 seconds would be too much.


The worst part is, I don't really have any points invested in it, I can only imagine how good it would be fully specced and with a full proto cal assault suit with 50+ shield regen, I would probably be unstoppable