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SoTah Pawp
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
387
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Posted - 2013.08.02 04:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
"I Kissed a girl and I liked it." - Katy Perry. |
Rupture Reaperson
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
264
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Posted - 2013.08.02 04:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
"HODOR" -Hodor |
THE GREY CARDINAL
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
185
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Posted - 2013.08.02 05:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
"Itchy. Tasty..." - Umbrella researcher, Arklay Lab, Racoon City. |
Witness The End
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.08.02 06:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
"The quickest way to a girls bed is through her parents, have sex with them and you're in" -Zapp Brannigan |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
273
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Posted - 2013.08.02 06:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
STFU - Random internet poster, circa 2000 |
miahus
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
88
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Posted - 2013.08.02 08:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote: I run a heavy and the flaylock and MD slay me in open fields. But in CQ often a miss or two from the MD gives me plenty of time to spray enough to make a fair battle
I honestly don't think you're convinced by what you're saying. I also don't know what you mean by a miss or two from the MD. Given the heavy's huge hit box, there is no way an MD shot would miss you, if not directly then by splash damage.
A noob tube is a noob tube, and that's that. If a game like COD doesn't give you the option to resupply its ammo, I don't know what CCP are thinking by giving it 6 rounds. It is really no different than the flaylock pre nerf. Its only "supposedly" redeeming factor is "oh but it requires CPU and PG like a main weapon" ... I say bullshit. I can't wait for the dual MD wielding commando's to surface, only then you might agree with the rest of those calling for its nerf.
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lDocHollidayl
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
221
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Posted - 2013.08.02 14:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
miahus wrote:lDocHollidayl wrote: I run a heavy and the flaylock and MD slay me in open fields. But in CQ often a miss or two from the MD gives me plenty of time to spray enough to make a fair battle I honestly don't think you're convinced by what you're saying. I also don't know what you mean by a miss or two from the MD. Given the heavy's huge hit box, there is no way an MD shot would miss you, if not directly then by splash damage. A noob tube is a noob tube, and that's that. If a game like COD doesn't give you the option to resupply its ammo, I don't know what CCP are thinking by giving it 6 rounds. It is really no different than the flaylock pre nerf. Its only "supposedly" redeeming factor is "oh but it requires CPU and PG like a main weapon" ... I say bullshit. I can't wait for the dual MD wielding commandos to surface, only then you might agree with the rest of those calling for its nerf.
In a 1v1 where both of us see each in CQ it is equal. If he is behind me and hits me a couple then I lose...I do not find the MD OP...in many many CQ situations MD kill them selves.
Are you saying the cons to the MD do not justify the pros? Read and digest the post. I can not use CoD as a standard to be measured against. Look at the weapon diversity..that is what this topic is about. Most games present weapon diversity as different colored ARs and RoF or burst fire etc. To have totally different weapons with the paper, rock , scissor style of game play is what Dust offers. I am merely attempting to educate against stripping the game of this uniqueness. |
Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
413
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Posted - 2013.08.02 14:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Doesn't change the fact that the MD is a crutch weapon. |
steadyhand amarr
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
1024
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Posted - 2013.08.02 14:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:lDocHollidayl wrote:GÇ£It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.GÇ¥ GÇò Chuck Palahniuk
Reg, if players like you have their way there would only be AR's. Let the game have some diversity. Nerf lasers much? Flux is lame maybe. Flaylock waaaa! Contact grenades...MOMMMMMMM! Weapons have pros and cons. The cons to the MD are range and travel time. It is quite arrogant to claim other weapons noob because you deem so. List the pros and cons and work on constructive criticism.
I will start...the MD has travel time, I have to predict where you will be in order to be successful.(bunny hoppers hate this because gravity is predictable...bunny hop much ;(... )The MD can rarely be effective in combat unless given high ground in engagements more then 40 meters. MD reload is long and often. MD users have short supply of ammo so they become tied to nano hive or resupplies. The AR can actually kill at ranges twice the effective rate of MD...Back off bro?
I respect your play not your arrogance. I concede 1v1 your skill is rarely matched but...this is far from a 1v1 game...TEAMPLAYERS much. Your rage bleeds the truth that you only respect gameplay that only mirrors your own. For the love of diversity think before you rage.
GÇ£He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.GÇ¥ GÇò Abraham Lincoln
Question: where was all this public posting against Regnum when he was in NF? cuz i swear when Reg and Protoman post the exact same stuff hes posting now saw alot of Yes men agreeing with everything they said. Now hes not in NF and im seeing a few NF now voicing out against some posts he has and tbh his posts havent changed. so question why the sudden public outcry against ppl like reg?
Because of the beerorcacy negative feedback was always you free to have your own view as long its the same of ours. I am not supprised at all that Nf members are speaking out. I like everyone in NF but my god it was **** if were not In with the cool kids
Nice to see posting doc. You should join foxhound very strong group it turns out :-)
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
1008
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Posted - 2013.08.02 14:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
really the only thing I see that may need addressing with the MD is the splash radius and possibly tweaking its effectiveness vs armor, as we can all agree its devastating.
the big reason this is coming to the forefront is simply because some MD users have gotten really good with it. just as AR users like regnum are extremely good with their weapon of choice.
achieving balance with diversity is always a tricky thing.
we have all seen CCP agreeing with us that tweaks are needed, but all too often have gone off the deep end in the tweaks.
I think the most recent tweak with fused and flaylocks was probably their best effort to date regarding balancing the weapons, but with their track record I agree we need to tread lightly and be very specific on input rather than leaving it open ended and then they go too far.
the MD is annoying, always has. throwing off your aim is the biggest thing, and adding to that the strength of the weapon in the right hands is what gives it this 'OP' feeling |
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lDocHollidayl
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
222
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Posted - 2013.08.02 14:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Azura Sakura wrote:Doesn't change the fact that the MD is a crutch weapon.
Doesn't change the fact it is situation. I think the Ar is the easiest slayer weapon. If in skirmish or ambush one wants to be top kills the Ar is the easiest to succeed with..given a mobile suit.
Now lets play a game of what is fact...rather theory, observable response repeated in predictable manner.
AR is on top on kill boards. The same player using MD or AR... AR is better to be on top kill boards. Is it a crutch weapon? What does that mean? I assume you mean a non skilled player can do better with it. But can he if he is slayed from an AR from a distance that he can not return fire from? Are you then telling me all these pros are mad that a noob can kill them? In a situation that favors the noob does it not make sense a noob should kill them? IE on a table top with a pub stomper below him.
Heaven forbid noobs discover REs and a pro gets one shotted. "Waaaaaaa, he blew me up with one hit...that weapon that killed me is noob. NERF it."
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
452
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Posted - 2013.08.02 15:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
"I pi$$ excellence."
~Ricky Bobby |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers EoN.
295
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Posted - 2013.08.02 15:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
Most players take more than a clip to kill without flux. That is > 10 seconds. Here I am shooting Angel Sunshine 5 times and they still aren't in armor. No flux, no kill. The vast majority of the game is still shield tanked. Mass driver is not the least bit overpowered without flux. Actually I would say that without flux, it is rather weak compared to the AR.
Throw in a flux and most people take 2-3 shots. Tell me. Is it the gernades that are overpowered or the mass driver? Been saying it since the release of chromosome (Pretty sure the throwing arc sucked before chrome). Gernades are overpowered. Too large a splash, too much damage, too many gernades. Fused were one element of that. Mass driver is just really effective at cleaning up after them. |
Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
413
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Posted - 2013.08.02 15:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:Azura Sakura wrote:Doesn't change the fact that the MD is a crutch weapon. Doesn't change the fact it is situation. I think the Ar is the easiest slayer weapon. If in skirmish or ambush one wants to be top kills the Ar is the easiest to succeed with..given a mobile suit. Now lets play a game of what is fact...rather theory, observable response repeated in predictable manner. AR is on top on kill boards. The same player using MD or AR... AR is better to be on top kill boards. Is it a crutch weapon? What does that mean? I assume you mean a non skilled player can do better with it. But can he if he is slayed from an AR from a distance that he can not return fire from? Are you then telling me all these pros are mad that a noob can kill them? In a situation that favors the noob does it not make sense a noob should kill them? IE on a table top with a pub stomper below him. Heaven forbid noobs discover REs and a pro gets one shotted. "Waaaaaaa, he blew me up with one hit...that weapon that killed me is noob. NERF it." Hmm... Throw flux and 1 shot. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
710
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Posted - 2013.08.02 17:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:lDocHollidayl wrote:GÇ£It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.GÇ¥ GÇò Chuck Palahniuk
Reg, if players like you have their way there would only be AR's. Let the game have some diversity. Nerf lasers much? Flux is lame maybe. Flaylock waaaa! Contact grenades...MOMMMMMMM! Weapons have pros and cons. The cons to the MD are range and travel time. It is quite arrogant to claim other weapons noob because you deem so. List the pros and cons and work on constructive criticism.
I will start...the MD has travel time, I have to predict where you will be in order to be successful.(bunny hoppers hate this because gravity is predictable...bunny hop much ;(... )The MD can rarely be effective in combat unless given high ground in engagements more then 40 meters. MD reload is long and often. MD users have short supply of ammo so they become tied to nano hive or resupplies. The AR can actually kill at ranges twice the effective rate of MD...Back off bro?
I respect your play not your arrogance. I concede 1v1 your skill is rarely matched but...this is far from a 1v1 game...TEAMPLAYERS much. Your rage bleeds the truth that you only respect gameplay that only mirrors your own. For the love of diversity think before you rage.
GÇ£He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.GÇ¥ GÇò Abraham Lincoln
Question: where was all this public posting against Regnum when he was in NF? cuz i swear when Reg and Protoman post the exact same stuff hes posting now saw alot of Yes men agreeing with everything they said. Now hes not in NF and im seeing a few NF now voicing out against some posts he has and tbh his posts havent changed. so question why the sudden public outcry against ppl like reg? Because of the beerorcacy negative feedback was always you free to have your own view as long its the same of ours. I am not supprised at all that Nf members are speaking out. I like everyone in NF but my god it was **** if were not In with the cool kids Nice to see posting doc. You should join foxhound very strong group it turns out :-)
LOL steady I dont know why you would say this as this is an obvious lie. I have bumped heads several times with some of the guys in NF on the forums. Honestly the problem with the MD is there is no falloff dmg based on distance from the explosive and the AOE is way too large for there to be no falloff dmg. 9 Meter radius (6 for regular MD) is just rediculous. If you cant hit someone or have a hard time hitting someone in that blast radius then you just plainly suck. I dont mind AOE weapons most of the time but when they have a rediculous AOE................it just becomes ret@rded. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers EoN.
296
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 17:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:lDocHollidayl wrote:GÇ£It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.GÇ¥ GÇò Chuck Palahniuk
Reg, if players like you have their way there would only be AR's. Let the game have some diversity. Nerf lasers much? Flux is lame maybe. Flaylock waaaa! Contact grenades...MOMMMMMMM! Weapons have pros and cons. The cons to the MD are range and travel time. It is quite arrogant to claim other weapons noob because you deem so. List the pros and cons and work on constructive criticism.
I will start...the MD has travel time, I have to predict where you will be in order to be successful.(bunny hoppers hate this because gravity is predictable...bunny hop much ;(... )The MD can rarely be effective in combat unless given high ground in engagements more then 40 meters. MD reload is long and often. MD users have short supply of ammo so they become tied to nano hive or resupplies. The AR can actually kill at ranges twice the effective rate of MD...Back off bro?
I respect your play not your arrogance. I concede 1v1 your skill is rarely matched but...this is far from a 1v1 game...TEAMPLAYERS much. Your rage bleeds the truth that you only respect gameplay that only mirrors your own. For the love of diversity think before you rage.
GÇ£He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.GÇ¥ GÇò Abraham Lincoln
Question: where was all this public posting against Regnum when he was in NF? cuz i swear when Reg and Protoman post the exact same stuff hes posting now saw alot of Yes men agreeing with everything they said. Now hes not in NF and im seeing a few NF now voicing out against some posts he has and tbh his posts havent changed. so question why the sudden public outcry against ppl like reg? Because of the beerorcacy negative feedback was always you free to have your own view as long its the same of ours. I am not supprised at all that Nf members are speaking out. I like everyone in NF but my god it was **** if were not In with the cool kids Nice to see posting doc. You should join foxhound very strong group it turns out :-) LOL steady I dont know why you would say this as this is an obvious lie. I have bumped heads several times with some of the guys in NF on the forums. Honestly the problem with the MD is there is no falloff dmg based on distance from the explosive and the AOE is way too large for there to be no falloff dmg. 9 Meter radius (6 for regular MD) is just rediculous. If you cant hit someone or have a hard time hitting someone in that blast radius then you just plainly suck. I dont mind AOE weapons most of the time but when they have a rediculous AOE................it just becomes ret@rded.
Don't even mention the boundless splash area. Nobody is using the boundless... It is inferior. There should be falloff to the splash. Should do full damage to 1/4th its current splash, 75% at half its current splash, 50% to 3/4ths current and 25% to its current splash. Damage values will probably need to be increased for it to remain viable.
Nerf ALL grenade equips (except fused, good job on fused) and add fall off. The gun isn't really overpowered right now, but I would like to see splash reworked anyway. |
lDocHollidayl
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
225
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Posted - 2013.08.02 18:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fiddle, You run MD, so the cons of range and reload and situation balance or not balance general game play? I know sometimes you just can not fight someone...like when you have low ground...it takes a miracle to hit someone weaving on high ground. Are not these aspects of balance? |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
577
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Posted - 2013.08.02 18:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
re: Mass Drivers
- Leave the splash radius - Reduce the direct and splash damage - Make is so the farther you are away from the impact of the MD round, the lower the effect is on you, damage should not be the same throughout the radius
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Friedrich Nietzsche |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers EoN.
297
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Posted - 2013.08.02 18:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:Fiddle, You run MD, so the cons of range and reload and situation balance or not balance general game play? I know sometimes you just can not fight someone...like when you have low ground...it takes a miracle to hit someone weaving on high ground. Are not these aspects of balance?
It is very effective from a vantage point. Haven't really played that style much since chromosome (The 3.3 splash on a freedom was sufficient to nerf it so that it was no longer effective in that capacity), but it has regained that ability since the fix. The slow projectile speed coupled with the lack of splash made the guessing game too difficult. Didn't matter how well you aimed it, if they didn't go where they were "supposed" to, no dice.
With all the caldari spam it is ONLY effective with flux. It is usually effective against scouts and heavies(but I have been getting my **** pushed in by Jacobi and the majority of your heavies), but through a caldari logi up and you better hope you have enough fluxes or you will lose 100% of the time.
If you get the jump on someone( READ: cook a flux and throw it at their feet) you will win most engagements. If you miss one shot you will lose a fair fight. If they have >5meters in elevation on you, you are going to lose. You *CAN* hit them from far below, but only if they are stationary. High ground with a railing isn't going to happen. Railings in general kinda mess you up quite a bit.
It is more effective at great range than most guns (Might just be me... It is like the only thing I am really good at, level elevation long shots). At short range you run the risk of killing yourself and do quite frequently. People will try to close range on you from less than 8 meters... I give them the people's elbow at that point or try to barely hit them with the splash on their back side. Sometimes I accidently direct impact and we both die.
Takes 1 too many shots to kill a drop uplink.
Pretty balanced overall, except for flux +2 shot... Paradoxically, the armor tanks that complain about it are better off in most of the situations where it is overpowered. I feel like the grenade equipment is far too powerful overall, and that needs to be fixed before any reworking of the mass driver should be done. If there is a problem with it, it is surely the flux grenade. I don't really think there IS a problem with it, but have seen a few people that camp and cook fluxes that have done really well. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1279
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Posted - 2013.08.02 19:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
I need popcorn. Imp vs Imp.
(Reg will always be an Imp, no matter what corp he moves on to) |
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1279
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Posted - 2013.08.02 19:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:I appreciate the thoughtful responses. Perhaps the armor bonus needs a tune up. I tank on an alt and swarms destroy armor tanks. Perhaps the MD does... I just want an honest appraisal of the weapon and its many ignored weaknesses. Such as the swarm, it can not touch infantry, making a strong side arm required. So it's power against vehicles makes sense to me.
I hesitate to nerf only because of the situation strength. I run a heavy and the flaylock and MD slay me in open fields. But in CQ often a miss or two from the MD gives me plenty of time to spray enough to make a fair battle. In open field the AR teammates slay the MD. Let us look at manus peak. 3 point map. A mass driver is useless in the assault from C to B or vice versa because of the open field he has to cross. But let him guard the letter from a high point and now he is OP. Many weapons are OP in situation and UP in others. Then there is the AR that can excel in all situations...not OP though. So 1 weapon is great in all situations (except sniper range) and then there are weapons that are OP in 1 situation but UP in another.
My concern is the removal of the OP for the sake of fairness then creating the laser situation. You must admit the MD user sacrifices many engagements that the AR would engage but because of the dynamics of the MD they have to pass it up or die.
Great analysis sir. +1 |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1077
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 20:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
"I have nothing to contribute to this discussion, but felt the need to speak anyway." -- Himiko Kuronaga |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers EoN.
298
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Posted - 2013.08.02 20:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
The way I see it, each of the benefits of the gun is matched with a disadvantage. Effective from height, ineffective from below. Effective at range, suicide up close. Great vs multiple players, Large risk of FF + Less 1v1 DPS than an AR. Great vs armor, awful vs shields (This one here is the one that needs further analysis) Good vs Heavies and scouts, not as good against assault and logi.
Dual tanking is the best way to counter a mass driver. Armor AND shields. If you sell out shields, you will get fluxed and die in 1-2 shots. If you sell out armor, you won't even need to be fluxed and you will die in 3-5 shots. Mass drivers shouldn't be effective against shields-- flux grenades and grenades in general are a problem. They ruin CQC play, just like the flaylock did.
Compounded with grenades it is too effective against shields and too effective against multiple players. But that is the problem with the GERNADES not the MD.
I am defintatly not the best MD user in the game, but I play at a decent level and have seen a great deal of high level matches. Been using it exclusively since the last SP restart.
A list of people who's opinion on the mass driver I would look to for input: Kaughst Regular Trooper Mcfurious Gloo Gloo I would even consider asking Dark Cloud and Alldin about it. I haven't really played against anyone else in EoN. that use it, but I am sure they are there... Blue Donut for the win! |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2592
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 21:02:00 -
[54] - Quote
"QQ and QQ the AR users do, when they'll stop, nobody knows... " - Your Papi |
Big miku
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
259
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 21:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach." ~Adolf Hitlestine |
Paran Tadec
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1262
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Posted - 2013.08.02 21:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Why is it a bunch of whiney EoN bitches in here crying about the MD. The thing has hardly any ammo, and you have to arc it for get a hit at all but close up. If you let me get close enough to you to 2 shot you with a flux md combo you deserved to die in the first place.
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semperfi1999
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
711
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Posted - 2013.08.02 21:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
I do agree the nades need to be reworked....specifically the flux nade as it ignores objects between you and the nade and it does not have the 5 second fuse like it should....so its virtually a contact nade for shields. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
944
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 21:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Why is it a bunch of whiney EoN bitches in here crying about the MD. The thing has hardly any ammo, and you have to arc it for get a hit at all but close up. If you let me get close enough to you to 2 shot you with a flux md combo you deserved to die in the first place.
spoken like a true skilless mass driver user
LOL IF U LET FLAYLOCK GET 2 CLOSE ITS UR FAULT HURRRR DURRR |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2592
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 21:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
King Kobrah wrote: LOL IF U LET FLAYLOCK GET 2 CLOSE ITS UR FAULT HURRRR DURRR
Well, duh... you gonna cry about shotguns next? |
BOOOGERTRON BORTZORG
Expert Intervention Caldari State
347
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Posted - 2013.08.02 21:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
You blame most of the people in this thread for ruining Dust so go away and stop posting. |
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