Implying everyone who wants a respec also wants to follow FOTM.

I just want to be able to pay money (support CCP) to be able to respecialize a good portion of my SP into Dropships.

respecs hurt the game.... and im talking specificly about the cal logi atm

How do respecs hurt the game?

because it changes the whole dynamic of the game... instead of having to live with your choices and having those choices matter in a persistant world, dust becomes a sort of Barbie play house where you can change your roles like she can change her clothes.
it makes the whole process thoughtless.
look at the game now...

EXAMPLE: flaylocks are OP lets all spec into them, no diversity on the field nerf comes, everyone specs into the next fotm nerf comes everyone specs into the next fotm nerf comes etc....if you didn't have to live with that choice and you could just respect at will or for a paltry fee imagine how broken this game would be then...

Choices matter in Dust as much as choices matter in Battlefield and Call of Duty. The only difference is that it takes longer to unlock guns in Dust than in other games. You don't even have OPTIONS in this game! Your choices are to grind SP, grind SP, or uninstall dust 514 (which is what most people did).

If "living with your choices like in real life" makes your ovaries tingle, then maybe you shouldn't buy a respec. No one will force you to buy a respec.

The "FOTM" argument is not sound. All overpowered weapons will eventually be balanced. Read the last two dev blogs; Cal lolgisk LLAVs, and you can also assume the Flaylock will also get a balance pass. So no, not "everyone" will buy a respec to to skill into callogi-flaylock-wielding-llav-drivers. Another good solution to prevent this is to give Respecs a 90 or 180 day cool down timer.

Oh, and this game is already thoughtless.

because it changes the whole dynamic of the game... instead of having to live with your choices and having those choices matter in a persistant world, dust becomes a sort of Barbie play house where you can change your roles like she can change her clothes.
it makes the whole process thoughtless.
look at the game now...

EXAMPLE: flaylocks are OP lets all spec into them, no diversity on the field nerf comes, everyone specs into the next fotm nerf comes everyone specs into the next fotm nerf comes etc....if you didn't have to live with that choice and you could just respect at will or for a paltry fee imagine how broken this game would be then...

I don't understand why people are calling Dust a persistent world when that vision is not yet put on practice. Choices don't matter in Dust in it's current state.

the moment you compared this to COD and battlefield you proved youre one of the idiots who need to quit...

the door is that way

The moment you completely missed the point of my previous post shows that you need to improve your reading comprehension and that you are a fanboy who is so in-love with the idea and potential of this game that you are blind to how the game actually is and plays.

I was with you until you compared this to COD and battlefield buddy

im not a fanboy I just understand what this game is... you apparently dont

There are only 3 things that set Dust 514 apart from COD and Battlefield:

Considerably longer grind to unlock content

Planetary conquest

and last (and definitely LEAST) it's "potential". (it's potential may even be debatable considering CCPs track record so far)


Tell me, what are you seeing that i'm not?

Recpes aren't just about flavors of the month.

When I decided to invest in a logi suit I spent well over a week sitting on my SP comparing the pros and cons of every racial suit at every level.

Based on the information provided and the cost analysis I decided that my goal would be running advanced suits over prototype suits and my ideas racial would be Minmatar because it effectively balanced high, low and equipment slots.

Now suddenly Amarr advancved logi suits, already with their 3 high and low slots, get their sidearm and a third equipment slot with nothing lost. All the analysis that lead me to picking and wasting SP on Minmatar go down the drain and I get to suck it up start all over in a new racial tree.

Recpes aren't just about flavors of the month.

When I decided to invest in a logi suit I spent well over a week sitting on my SP comparing the pros and cons of every racial suit at every level.

Based on the information provided and the cost analysis I decided that my goal would be running advanced suits over prototype suits and my ideas racial would be Minmatar because it effectively balanced high, low and equipment slots.

Now suddenly Amarr advancved logi suits, already with their 3 high and low slots, get their sidearm and a third equipment slot with nothing lost. All the analysis that lead me to picking and wasting SP on Minmatar go down the drain and I get to suck it up start all over in a new racial tree.

why are you so butt hurt man?

Bravo! Bravo! I request an encore once more!

The show isn't over yet.


@seymor

I know where dust is supposed to be headed. I've been playing this game listening to CCPs marketing for a year and 5 months. So I believe, if CCPs vision is realized, that all the decisions and consequences will be much more than just SP. But as it stands currently, SP is all we have. It's not enough to hold together a decent player base. So many people have already quit, and many more are burned out and thinking about quitting.

SP respecs is a viable short term solution for people who are bored with this game and have a little money to spend. Give it a cool down timer so it's not abused, make only available until CCP introduces PVE, improved FW, Goals/missions to achieve, markets to play, social spaces to gather, and most importantly introduce all racial weapons/suits/vehicles.

my reply...patients and CCP doesn't care who stays and who goes at this point.... because rats in a lab test are supposed to die....

I literally just got my cal logi 5, knew this was coming, and don't care....
...
the nerf isn't that big after all its a LOGI suit not an assault suit and CCP is trying to make it work as intended so shame on you frontliners for trying to exploit their honest mistakes... youre getting what you deserve, and if that drives you to quit then you weren't worth the time of the community anyway and I say good effing riddance.

I love the rest of you

Yeah, the problem start when you killed all the rat's and you dont have the cure...

Agreed.

It's a shame when people see a small change coming they cry for a respec.

This. I don't get why the hell some people think they deserve a respec when they train to use a suit supposed to fill a support role, use it as an assault and then the suit is changed to actually do what it is supposed to do. I mean, wtf dude, it is named "Logistics Suit", if you want to fill an assault role go look at the "Assault Suit". Or at least don't complain because the logi suits are being changed to do what they're supposed to do in the first place. wtf.

respec is not only that.

i want a respec so i can go from Amar logi (suit buffed) to amar commando. Hell i have a better KDR with my amar logi but you know, i found the commando more fun.

I have 13 mil sp and I run all bp fits still... I realize everyone doesn't have the real$$ to spend to get bps but you don't need proto or adv gear to be viable....

I run a dren shot gun a dren logi and the only thing I pay for are 2 sets of remote explosives std and adv.... my suit is under 9k....

my KDR without trying is 1.3....

my point run cheaper suits and suck it up

skill over gear

There are only 3 things that set Dust 514 apart from COD and Battlefield:

Considerably longer grind to unlock content

Planetary conquest

and last (and definitely LEAST) it's "potential". (it's potential may even be debatable considering CCPs track record so far)


Tell me, what are you seeing that i'm not?

Seriously? Someone running bps is telling people to run cheaper suits?

How about you put down the credit card and play the game like all of the normal people that don't feel the need to dish out cash to lord over other players, then come back and talk.

Not demanding respec but have a serious question:

What will warrant a respec? We are changing slot layout, changing available PG/CPU, and racial bonuses. To what extent must things change?

The Cal Logi got a deserved nerf but the Amarr Logi a really nice buff. Going off the information we had you may have foresaw a change but to what extent?

CCP provides the information, all we can do is go off that but also we are expected to guess at the nerf/buff?

just spend the time to earn the sp.....

Yeah, and thats is right when your " live with your choice" fail, simply because it's only a matter of time till i have both, so i need to do choice, but with the right time choice dosent matter.

You think the people using the flylock used the respecc for it? they simply put 500.000 sp on it. when the fly will be nerfed, they simply fall back to their original weapon and wait to find another OP weapon.

So,right now, choice dosent matter, if you have time. and with SP passive system, time is not a problem

Cuts

Their 10 year track record with EVE, the game is good. It has its problems but what game doesn't? Their track record shows that they do listen to feedback, they do try to balance in a way that makes things interesting, they do learn from their mistakes and they do try to do what is best for the game. I think their record is pretty good.

but think about this... why did they choose the flaylock?

because they new how easymode it was.... pure and simple that was their choice... and if they did their research they would know the consequence of that choice is that anerf will eventually come... so my argument is still valid im afraid

The problem is that Dust isn't EVE. Dust is an FPS and for gain SP you need to KILL the enemy and win the match.

In Eve if they nerd your ship you can do PVM till you have enough SP to skill another. In Dust you cant. If you can't Kill or win match you quit the game,
If many people quit the game, the game simply die.

We are talking not for Cal.Logi respec, but for respec in general

I was with you until you compared this to COD and battlefield buddy

im not a fanboy I just understand what this game is... you apparently dont

This game is extremely similar to CoD and Battlefield... or at least as similar to each as they are to one another.

There's nothing revolutionary or new going on in Dust 514. It's an average, casual, low player count, lobby shooter.

Let me read EULA... dust514.com/eula/

Ah that's right:


=

I literally just got my cal logi 5, knew this was coming, and don't care....

lesson to the FOTM chasers...

stop chasing

actually learn to play the game and quit depending on your equipment to carry you

then when the nerf bat swings it wont shatter your tiny world.

to all the QQers who want respecs and are threatening to quit... I say quit

you knew the suit was OP and you road the wave with glee. now you have the audacity to complain?
youre pathetic and you drive the overall I.Q. of the player base down.

the nerf isn't that big after all its a LOGI suit not an assault suit and CCP is trying to make it work as intended so shame on you frontliners for trying to exploit their honest mistakes... youre getting what you deserve, and if that drives you to quit then you weren't worth the time of the community anyway and I say good effing riddance.

I love the rest of you

im afraid you are wrong again dust is part of eve... it is not just an fps and if you read my post at the bottom of page 1 you would understand this

There are only 3 things that set Dust 514 apart from COD and Battlefield:

Considerably longer grind to unlock content

Planetary conquest

and last (and definitely LEAST) it's "potential". (it's potential may even be debatable considering CCPs track record so far)


Tell me, what are you seeing that i'm not?

just remember guys... for all of you who don't get it... think this is just a crap lobby shooter... we don't need you so quit

CCP doesn't care I don't care and the hardcore community doesn't care...

your tears have been a wonderful meal

No, right now, Dust is an FPS based on EVE Univers.

Seeing ship in the sky is not Dust=EVE

and i belive in this game, i bought aurum and elite pack just to support CCP and their vision. But i also think a respec is necessary for an FPS.

CUT

The argument that "eventually everything will be balanced" is a more epic fail argument than people supporting it think the FOTM argument is.

If at any point in EVE Online's 10 year history, there had EVER been a point where everything was balanced, there might be a vague hint of the possibility that your argument had the beginnings of the ground it needs to stand on. Maybe enough to perch your big toe on for a second before it collapses under the weight of an expansion a month after that moment of perfect balance.

Even if, by some miracle, CCP get around to balancing everything currently in the game perfectly against the other items, it won't happen until after they've added new weapons and equipment, some of which will be OP and some of which will be in dire need of a buff. All our existing things we see right now will be fine, but there will be at least 3 or 4 items that are flat-out better than everything we have now, and probably a handful more that make the current (now balanced) items look OP in comparison.

Scouts will be awesome and useful, but Pilot suits might have no PG/CPU and expensive modules required to make them useful, meaning you can make your tank a TINY amount stronger, but if you're ever caught without it, cou can barely fit a Sidearm on your suit. And while our Amarr Sentinels and Commando suits will be great, the Caldari models will have Scout levels of armour and not enough shield HP to balance them out, while the Gallente model will only give up 200 shield HP and gain 500 armour or something just so CCP can prove they don't hate armour tankers. Also, the Gallente Commando will have a Heavy and a Light slot and get its Grenades back, but at the cost of the usual Commando bonus of an Equipment slot. HAVs will be balanced really well, and LAVs won't be stupid and broken like they are now, but MTACs will be out, and the game will have turned into Titanfall because none of the other vehicles are remotely competent in comparison. They'll be solo-piloted and have a Heavy vehicle weapon mounted on each arm, they'll be able to run almost as fast as LAVs drive, and will deal extra damage while taking less from collisions with other vehicles, and if you manage to step on an enemy soldier, you'll squash him flat. The new "splat" sound effect will be very satisfying, however.

And even if they manage to get all that new stuff balanced BEFORE releasing anything else, it'll only happen about a week before the next update, with the next OP FOTM item for all to... uhhh... "enjoy"?

If we get to respec, whether purchased or just time-based, there will ALWAYS be a FOTM option to spec into, and there will ALWAYS be people exploiting the respec system to keep themselves on top as much as possible and for as long as possible. It may be that new items are coming out every 6 months, and you only get to respec once a year. That's fine, respec right after the update, after giving yourself time to see what the current most OP item is, and skill into the NEXT-most OP item instead, to give yourself a bit of extra time before you get nerfed into oblivion... and when that happens, stop playing until they re-buff you or you're up for your next respec, then repeat the process.

No, we won't see everyone doing this in public games and in the casual tiers of players, but on a competitive level, a solid majority will ALWAYS be running the most powerful items in EVERY COMPETITIVE MATCH, except when (like Flaylocks) the big names agree not to use an item because it's THAT far beyond the rest of the metagame. When Tac ARs were the top-tier weapon, all the top Corps ran them - not exclusively, but FAR more than every other weapon combined. Back when tanks were OP instead of barely-functional, every major Corp had a solid tank group. Now that LLAVs are the best vehicle in the game, decent LAV drivers are finding it easy to come by Corp offers. If you could quickly look through, work out what's OP (because there will always be something) and skill into it after having spent all your points randomly all over the place for a laugh, that would remove the one aspect where DUST is living up to its promise of lasting consequences.

just remember guys... for all of you who don't get it... think this is just a crap lobby shooter... we don't need you so quit

CCP doesn't care I don't care and the hardcore community doesn't care...

your tears have been a wonderful meal

Go ask all MAG player, where the people on the forum say "Go leave, we dont need you)" then all player leave and the game become crap.

you had to latch on to that to feel superior huh?..... shame on you.... not the fact I have 13 mil sp? cal logi 5?.... youre sad...

Oh, I know how the rest of this will play out!

Protocake JR: *insert rebuttal; re-explaining why it is just a crap lobby shooter and why CCP does need us*

Seymor Krelborn: *regurgitate marketing talking points; daydream about what this game will be like in 30 years; call everyone a CODFAG and tell them to leave*

Then the PS4 comes out, we actually do leave, and Seymor Krelborn is left to play with 300 12 year olds and Evetards (the entire worldwide playerbase).

I literally just got my cal logi 5, knew this was coming, and don't care....

lesson to the FOTM chasers...

stop chasing

actually learn to play the game and quit depending on your equipment to carry you

then when the nerf bat swings it wont shatter your tiny world.

to all the QQers who want respecs and are threatening to quit... I say quit

you knew the suit was OP and you road the wave with glee. now you have the audacity to complain?
youre pathetic and you drive the overall I.Q. of the player base down.

the nerf isn't that big after all its a LOGI suit not an assault suit and CCP is trying to make it work as intended so shame on you frontliners for trying to exploit their honest mistakes... youre getting what you deserve, and if that drives you to quit then you weren't worth the time of the community anyway and I say good effing riddance.

I love the rest of you

Go ask all MAG player, where the people on the forum say "Go leave, we dont need you)" then all player leave and the game become crap.

I tried having a rational discussion with you.... I was right in my initial estimation of your personality type though.... I did however forego my initial judgment and gave you the opportunity to present yourself as a rational human being....how sad for both of us...

>Disagree with Seymor
>No longer a rational human being
>wat

The difference between you and I, is that you are willing cast aside a large portion of the (tiny) playerbase just on the principle of honoring what this game "might" become,

where as I, being a realist, see that honoring the games EVE mentality at it's current state is far more harmful to it's success than (temporarily) giving in and actually making this game slightly more fun to play.

love your post.... for those who didn't read... basicly balance is like chasing a white whale... and he is right.... no game ever really achieves true balance... eve never has and neither will dust... again great post!

seriously?... cause ill be serious if you don't dismiss my comments out of hand....

im seeing EVE... and yes I play it.... if you don't go do some research.... I realize the integration is a bit off but it is coming ... IT IS COMING... make no mistake.... dust is a hybrid fps, mech, mmo, rpg, in 18 months it wont resemble its current iteration... in 5 years ( and yes the devs said from the jump they have a 5 year development plan) it will be a drastic deviation from what it is now... so yes they could just make it what people expect it to be now, but that's not where they are headed with it which is why it isn't looking like a COD/ battlefield fps... its not because they cant do it... its because that's not their intention... it never was....eventually eve and dust will be a new I.P. called new eden... the devs have said this more or less, accessable from multiple devices in multiple ways.... it will be something completely different from the traditional game model... dust right now is just a demo, a test... we are the rats

Irrelevant reply is irrelevant. What makes you think Dust can survive 10 years? Remember,

it's FREE TO PLAY (so most people will play this game without paying a dime),
and it has a tiny, dwindling, playerbase (F2P titles need high playercounts to be profitable),
It also happens to be competing in a market SATURATED with FPS games. People log on, see it's a **** game, then go back to playing the 100 other shooters that play better than this game.

Please don't let this games potential cloud your judgement. It's fun to daydream about what this game can become one day, but it's more important to snap back to reality and see the game for what it is TODAY. If only to provide good, relevant, feedback.

then why are you here if you see that this game is so terrible? it is bad, but at least I have patients to wait for something to happen.

No, there will be no offering of respecialization in the coming 1.3 update.

Well

Everything that console players said from the beggining of Beta happened - poor reviews, small playerbase. Are you happy with your SP rate, slow movement , nerf everything, grinding approach ?

This game should be fun. Part of the fun is diversity. Diversity is not there due to related grind and SP costs.

I shouldn't have to make alts just to play heavy or scout or gods forbid a tanker.

People should stop associating respecs with FOTM-users, you all miss out what's wrong with the game.

The truth is that this game isn't finished yet. CCP is finally picking up on their 'let's fix things and change things u'-game.
Maybe they released this crapbuild so Sony could finally give CCP their freedom to do these quick changes, maybe not...all I know is that this game needs more work and testing untill a decent build of the game is accomplished. Don't feel stupid if they decide to give a respec after that process.

If CCP chooses to give a respect at some point it will be warranted....

it will probably be a few builds down the road and after a major content release.

im guessing around 18 months from now....

and if they do it it would be with the hard core community's blessing because of a major overhaul

not because a logi suit finally works a little closer to as intended....

People should stop associating respecs with FOTM-users, you all miss out what's wrong with the game.

The truth is that this game isn't finished yet. CCP is finally picking up on their 'let's fix things and change things u'-game.
Maybe they released this crapbuild so Sony could finally give CCP their freedom to do these quick changes, maybe not...all I know is that this game needs more work and testing untill a decent build of the game is accomplished. Don't feel stupid if they decide to give a respec after that process.

This sounds like you think I'm saying this based on the upcoming Caldari Logi changes.....I think you misinterpretted me big-time if that's the case.

Alright, honest question, no trolling...

From somebody with about 5 mil SP.

No Proto gear.

No Cal Logi suit.

No Core Flaylock.

First ... all of this stuff about how your choices matter in New Eden, and about how important those SP are, and about how everyone needs to HTFU ... it's all kind of ridiculous, especially considering that this is a video game. I mean ... really. It's a video game.

But more than that ... how could resepcs be such a terrible idea? I'm saying this from a player's perspective, not as a member of the FOTM crowd. How can somebody sit down and compare the suits, the weapons, the gear, and make any kind of informed decision when the ground can shift so quickly under your feet? Everyone wants to sell the grind, but why grind when you really can't even be sure that what you're grinding for is going to be there when you are? Or worse, that it'll end up significantly changed a week after you bought it? Why waste the time? Why ever spend your precious SP? On anything..?

Again ... I'm not trolling. For the most part, I'm happy with what I've spent SP on. And I have no Cal Logi buddies that I am taking up the fight for. I'm just sort of perplexed by all this overreaction to the very mention of a respec.

Implying everyone who wants a respec also wants to follow FOTM.

I just want to be able to pay money (support CCP) to be able to respecialize a good portion of my SP into Dropships.

I was with you until you compared this to COD and battlefield buddy

im not a fanboy I just understand what this game is... you apparently dont

seriously?... cause ill be serious if you don't dismiss my comments out of hand....

im seeing EVE... and yes I play it.... if you don't go do some research.... I realize the integration is a bit off but it is coming ... IT IS COMING... make no mistake.... dust is a hybrid fps, mech, mmo, rpg, in 18 months it wont resemble its current iteration... in 5 years ( and yes the devs said from the jump they have a 5 year development plan) it will be a drastic deviation from what it is now... so yes they could just make it what people expect it to be now, but that's not where they are headed with it which is why it isn't looking like a COD/ battlefield fps... its not because they cant do it... its because that's not their intention... it never was....eventually eve and dust will be a new I.P. called new eden... the devs have said this more or less, accessable from multiple devices in multiple ways.... it will be something completely different from the traditional game model... dust right now is just a demo, a test... we are the rats

If you don't think this game is extremely similar to CoD and Battlefield, then you probably haven't played CoD or Battlefield... and you clearly aren't very knowledgeable in regards to FPS.

Dust 514 is clearly very similar to both. It's a casual lobby shooter, plain and simple. Anything more that you're daydreaming about is just that, a daydream.



You can't build a game with rainbows and good intentions, and that's all they've got right now. Every developer would love to make the game CCP daydreams about making, but until they actually make that game we're stuck with Dust 514. Other developers are simply more experienced, and have a better understanding of what can and can't be done on a PS3. Do you really think CCP are the first company to have this pipedream? I don't. I think they're the first company to make such huge promises that clearly can't be kept.

What they've actually built, is a low player count, unbalanced, low-diversity, casual, lobby shooter. That's the reality. I'll agree that what they say they'd like to do sounds awesome, but it doesn't even vaguely resemble the actual game they have delivered.

Get your head out of the clouds and try giving a critical look to what they've actually delivered, not the pie in the sky that they talk about in interviews.


p.s. I highly recommend losing all of the ellipses.

to your last part 1st... read my reply to this post here:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=95599&p=2

and you will see my head isn't in the clouds

I have played many of the iterations of COD...I have not played battlefield but I have watched multiple youtube vids of it... and of COD for that matter... and no im not saying that's the same as playing... not by a long shot but I do have familiarity with them...and other than the fact that they are in the 1st person and that they are shooters I don't personally think they share much in common

I think some of the weapons are similar and some of the roles are similar but they deviate greatly in how those roles are shaped

and if you remember COD 1 it has nothing on MW3 that's over 10 years of game development right there so my head is not in the clouds with DUST... dust deserves the same time

a challenge for you...

name a 1st class FPS that just came out that isn't part of a franchise that is effing awesome when compared with the greats...

well the complex skill tree for one and the integration into the EVE universe for another.... I agree though for now its not much else but eve wasn't what it was when it 1st came out either .....

you didn't read my other post in that other thread if you think im a fanboy... but yes I am a fan of what CCP has done so far with eve and what they are trying to do with dust.... personally im giving them 18 months from now to deliver on the general structure of what they promised at that point if its still like this im out as well to be honest because fan or not I can only take so much and im not ecstactic with what we have now... but im far from the "dust is dead" crowd and te "this isn't eve its dust" crowd.... those people don't see the big picture... whether or not CCP can paint that picture remains to be seen... I agree

by the greats I meant games that in the harsh judgment of public opinion stand up to COD battlefield and HALO

But, by that definition, any game I list would already be part of "the greats" and thus ineligible for listing.

There are so many great multiplayer FPS games that come out on a regular basis and get much more solid reviews than Dust 514, that it's hard to even know where to start. This is why I find your argument so irritating, your questions and viewpoints make it pretty clear that you don't know much about the genre, or else you wouldn't be asking the questions or making the points you are making in the first place. Your stance seems to be practically self-refuting.

I never meant to give the impression im some hardcore FPS vet.... im not.... im a hard core gamer... I know what I like and I have a good grasp on the scope of gaming and its history.... im no self proclaimed expert or anything....

YOU however keep trying to pigeonhole this game as an FPS and that's what im refuting at the moment... its not just an FPS...

it is right now very FPS like and not much else but if CCP delivers on dust the way it has with EVE it will not just be an FPS and will resemble less and less COD/battlefield 18 months from now and beyond and the foundation for those differences are here already....

you call that fanboy head in the clouds BS... I would say you are right if people like you had not said the same thing about EVE 10 years ago and got proven wrong.... I believe they can deliver again.... that doesn't make me a fanboy anymore for CCP than it does for my favorite restaurant everytime I order food and expect to get good food...

and like I said before if CCP effs this up .... with ps4 and destiny and elderscrolls online and dark souls 2 and so many other great games coming.... I will move on...im just not willing to write them off prematurely.