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If armor makes you slower Shields should make you more detectable

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Beren Hurin K-A-O-S theory 742	Posted - 2013.07.19 02:56:00 - [31] - Quote Just wait for the anti shield heavy weapon. the plasma and laser heavy weapon will be awesome.
Logi Stician The Vanguardians 45	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:24:00 - [32] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP. Kinda like in Dune, on Arakis, wearing a shield belt would attract the attention of sand worms! I'm reading Dune. It's good.
Konohamaru Sarutobi Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 510	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:27:00 - [33] - Quote Hahahaha You can't detect LAVs & HAVs in the middle of your butt and you want to detect a person hahahahaha
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2564	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:00:00 - [34] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: Complex shield extenders should increase your DB detection rate by 10% or more and increase the range you can be detected at. As you are running a more energy emitting suit you should be far easier to pick up from enemy suit scanners and from further away. Cat_Merc and I put together a thread suggesting that Shield Extenders give a very slight increase to hitbox as a penalty. Thus, both modules increase your hitpoints, but have the downside of making you easier to hit.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 92	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:09:00 - [35] - Quote someone beat me to my comment, but I agree shields should increase your hit box
NOAMIzzzzz The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 3	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:38:00 - [36] - Quote +1
Zekain Kade TeamPlayers EoN. 1255	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:45:00 - [37] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP. +1 as well. That's a great idea. No it's not. You'll have people shooting 4 feet from the actual target, and still be able to hit them. It's a stupid idea, and removes the skill from the game. Why Even aim at the target, when you can just spray and pray, and land every shot because of his increased hit box? SERIOUSLY. ****. THINK DAMNIT.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 92	Posted - 2013.07.19 05:09:00 - [38] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP. +1 as well. That's a great idea. No it's not. You'll have people shooting 4 feet from the actual target, and still be able to hit them. It's a stupid idea, and removes the skill from the game. Why Even aim at the target, when you can just spray and pray, and land every shot because of his increased hit box? SERIOUSLY. ****. THINK DAMNIT. This would even affect shield vehicles, and I don't think the nerfed gunnlogis, and any shield Dropship pilot would like being able to be easier to hit. Slower smaller hitboxes (armor) vs Faster Larger hitboxes (shields), the trade off is practically the literal definition of fair, and I shield tank myself so I"m not here to destroy shield tankers. It would also put more strategy for those who decide to not tank at all. Also for vehicles, the balance of shield and armor does not follow the same as dropsuits due to the fact that its armor>shields for vehicles, so they already operate by different rules, thus we can modify different rules to balance them.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2566	Posted - 2013.07.19 05:37:00 - [39] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP. +1 as well. That's a great idea. No it's not. You'll have people shooting 4 feet from the actual target, and still be able to hit them. It's a stupid idea, and removes the skill from the game. Why Even aim at the target, when you can just spray and pray, and land every shot because of his increased hit box? SERIOUSLY. ****. THINK DAMNIT. This would even affect shield vehicles, and I don't think the nerfed gunnlogis, and any shield Dropship pilot would like being able to be easier to hit. You realize we're not talking larger numbers here, right? I'm talking differences in the inch category. Also, that hitbox bonus would go away as soon as your shields went down.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI EoN. 156	Posted - 2013.07.19 06:05:00 - [40] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: Complex shield extenders should increase your DB detection rate by 10% or more and increase the range you can be detected at. As you are running a more energy emitting suit you should be far easier to pick up from enemy suit scanners and from further away. While we are at it, Lets just slap a giant "HEY I'M RIGHT HERE" flag on every scout in the game. Seriously. So many people run medium suits, it seems like nobody every goes and asks themselves, "what would this do to heavies though? Or maybe even Scouts?" Here is the answer. Nearly every scout is a shield tank. Armor tanking ain't worth sh*t, and who wants a slow scout in the first place? Ferroscale SHOULD have fixed that problem, except they are pretty expensive CPU/PG-wise and we don't have much of that to spare. And they suck anyways (Seriously, it only saves you from one extra AR round each time, and they have 59 more to spare). IMHO it is still a bad choice for medium suits (see below), and would demolish most scouts, or at least negate their racial bonus. Heavies? They should be fine. Everybody can already see you, so you might as well announce your arrival ahead of time with a nice shield tank, with very little side effects. Medium Suits? IMHO it's still a bad choice. The only reason you want to be undetected is to sneak up on people. You also have to be fast. So you dump shields and pick up armor. Great. Now you are slow. Also, if you really wanted to, you could just Shield Tank anyways, and then run profile dampeners. Remember those freaking awesomely placed high slots? Makes Shields EXTREMELY versatile, as low slots run the customization game, and the only use for high slots are damage mods, shields, and re-chargers (shield based)

Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 951	Posted - 2013.07.19 09:58:00 - [41] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP. +1 as well. That's a great idea. No it's not. You'll have people shooting 4 feet from the actual target, and still be able to hit them. It's a stupid idea, and removes the skill from the game. Why Even aim at the target, when you can just spray and pray, and land every shot because of his increased hit box? SERIOUSLY. ***. THINK DAMNIT. This would even affect shield vehicles, and I don't think the nerfed gunnlogis, and any shield Dropship pilot would like being able to be easier to hit. People don't like* being easier to hit or slower to move in Eve, either. But that doesn't mean it isn't a good mechanic.
Xender17 Intrepidus XI EoN. 344	Posted - 2013.07.19 10:29:00 - [42] - Quote Calroon DeVil wrote: CCP loves shields, hates armor. 10 years of EVE is a pretty good representation of that. They wont do anything about it. Tankers would say otherwise...
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2013.07.19 10:39:00 - [43] - Quote And while they're at it: Shields: Add shield repair tool Nerf unmodified shield recharge significantly to make it more reliant on modules and shield repair tools. Make shield recharge refill shields at a constant rate instead of in pulses (though you'd still have to wait for the delay) Add shield booster module (like an armor repairer, except for shields, and repairs in small pulses even under fire) Both: Add shield and armor resistance modules for infantry: 3, 5 and 10% resistance respectively (counters damage mods directly) Armor: Increase Ferroscale plate HP to match shield extenders (shield can fit biotics to go faster, armor can fit damage mods). Reduce speed penalty on regular plates to 1, 3 and 5% respectively. Rename Reactive Plates to Regenerative Plates: same speed penalty as regular plates, increases armor HP by 30, 60, 90 and gives 1, 3 and 5 HP/s repair rate. Completely reinvent Reactive Plates: same speed penalty as regular plates, increases armor HP by 40, 70, 100 and resistance by 1, 3, 5%. Increase repair rate of Armor Repairers: 3, 5, 10 HP/s Just a personal list of changes I'd like to see to make Armor and Shields more competitive with each other.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 988	Posted - 2013.07.19 11:43:00 - [44] - Quote J-Lewis wrote: And while they're at it: Shields: Add shield repair tool Nerf unmodified shield recharge significantly to make it more reliant on modules and shield repair tools. Make shield recharge refill shields at a constant rate instead of in pulses (though you'd still have to wait for the delay) Add shield booster module (like an armor repairer, except for shields, and repairs in small pulses even under fire) It sounds like you just want to make shields and armour exactly the same, which would just make having the 2 options absolutely pointless and would be better just going to an overall HP system. No. We don't need most of your suggestions here.
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition 33	Posted - 2013.07.19 11:46:00 - [45] - Quote I'm like "Yea-eah, ninja scout suit nerf"
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2013.07.19 12:12:00 - [46] - Quote Django Quik wrote: J-Lewis wrote: And while they're at it: Shields: Add shield repair tool Nerf unmodified shield recharge significantly to make it more reliant on modules and shield repair tools. Make shield recharge refill shields at a constant rate instead of in pulses (though you'd still have to wait for the delay) Add shield booster module (like an armor repairer, except for shields, and repairs in small pulses even under fire) It sounds like you just want to make shields and armour exactly the same Absolutely not. I'm asking for active shield tanking to be a thing.
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 173	Posted - 2013.07.22 06:04:00 - [47] - Quote bump
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 260	Posted - 2013.07.22 06:47:00 - [48] - Quote Whoah... Heavies have naturally high shield HP. Is OP suggesting that Heavies get detected even faster: like across the map type of thing?!
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 176	Posted - 2013.07.22 06:50:00 - [49] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Whoah... Heavies have naturally high shield HP. Is OP suggesting that Heavies get detected even faster: like across the map type of thing?! No we are talking about taking your current base DB and have it be added to like armor moduals slow movement. so shield extenders and the like have a penalty that increases your DB signature.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 260	Posted - 2013.07.22 06:57:00 - [50] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: Whoah... Heavies have naturally high shield HP. Is OP suggesting that Heavies get detected even faster: like across the map type of thing?! No we are talking about taking your current base DB and have it be added to like armor moduals slow movement. so shield extenders and the like have a penalty that increases your DB signature. Sweet, then I fully support your suggestion.

CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 96	Posted - 2013.07.22 07:43:00 - [51] - Quote Could you not change the local close range scanner of suits to be range based? From its max scan power close in, slowly fading out as the range increases? My thinking here is scouts with lower signatures will be able to sneak up closer than any other suit. AND depending on your suit and modules, it would depend what scan power you have at what range.
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.07.22 07:54:00 - [52] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Could you not change the local close range scanner of suits to be range based? From its max scan power close in, slowly fading out as the range increases? My thinking here is scouts with lower signatures will be able to sneak up closer than any other suit. AND depending on your suit and modules, it would depend what scan power you have at what range. How scanning works in dust could use allot more thought put into it, that way the way you build your suit can have more effects felt other then just combat, Shields mods for more active scan faster sneak and armor plates for a more stealthy slower approach.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 419	Posted - 2013.07.22 08:13:00 - [53] - Quote Xender17 wrote: Calroon DeVil wrote: CCP loves shields, hates armor. 10 years of EVE is a pretty good representation of that. They wont do anything about it. Tankers would say otherwise... Unfortunately Armor Tanks are good because the Large Armor Repair is bugged and CCP already stated that it will be "fixed". So, yeah CCP are all shield lovers.
Dynnen Vvardenfell 187. League of Infamy 24	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:36:00 - [54] - Quote Django Quik wrote: J-Lewis wrote: And while they're at it: Shields: Add shield repair tool Nerf unmodified shield recharge significantly to make it more reliant on modules and shield repair tools. Make shield recharge refill shields at a constant rate instead of in pulses (though you'd still have to wait for the delay) Add shield booster module (like an armor repairer, except for shields, and repairs in small pulses even under fire) It sounds like you just want to make shields and armour exactly the same, which would just make having the 2 options absolutely pointless and would be better just going to an overall HP system. No. We don't need most of your suggestions here. I'd rather have them exactly the same instead of one being so much better than the other.
Killar-12 Intrepidus XI EoN. 235	Posted - 2013.07.22 22:09:00 - [55] - Quote Why should Armor tankers be penalized for better plates? There should be three types of plates in addition to Ferros and Reactives Reactive plates Should retain current PG/CPU, repping rates, and movement penalties Basic Reactive Plates 50 HP Enhanced Reactive Plates 75 HP Complex Reactive Plates 80HP Ferro Plates should have PG/CPU of current Basic plates Basic Ferro Plates 40 HP Enhanced Ferro Plates 60 HP Complex Ferro Plates 80HP Light armor plates 3% movement penalty across the board x.5 CPU x.6 PG used for scout who want more protection than a Ferroscale plate Basic Light Plates 60 HP Enhanced Light Plates 90 HP Complex Light Plates 120HP Medium Armor plates 5% movement penalties Same as current PG/CPU needs for medium suits Basic Medium Plates 90 HP Enhanced Medium Plates 130 HP Complex Meduim Plates 170 HP Heavy Plates 10% movement penalty triple PG needs x1.5 CPU needs, for heavies Basic Heavy Plates 125 HP Enhanced Heavy Plates 200 HP Complex Heavy Plates 275 HP Light Shield Extenders x.5 PG x.6 CPU cost, for scouts 3% inccrease in signiture Basic Light Extenders 15 HP Enhanced Light Extenders 30 HP Complex Light Extenders 45 HP Medium Shield Extenders Same PG/CPU Costs 5% increase to signiture Basic Medium Extenders 20 HP Enhanced Medium Extenders 40 HP Complex Medium Extenders 70 HP Heavy Shield Extenders x1.5 PG x 2.5 CPU use for heavies 15% increase in signiture Basic Heavy Shield Extenders 70 HP Enhanced Heavy Shield Extenders 100 HP Complex Heavy Shield Extenders 130 HP Shield Regenerators increase= increase to base Regen rate Basic Shield Regenerators 25% increase Enhanced Shield Regenerators 50% increase Complex Shield Regenerators 75% increase Shield Energizers Basic Shield Energizers 40% increase -4% shields Enhanced Shield Energizers 80% increase -8% shields Complex Shield Energizers 120% increase -12% shields Also a x2 boost to heavy PG and CPU Comments? Concerns? Questions?
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 169	Posted - 2013.07.22 22:55:00 - [56] - Quote I'm not a fan of shields merely giving increase signature ie easier to be seen on radar that's just enough of a penalty. Also not the greatest fan of larger hitboxes. It just seems weird that you shoot at someone missing their body completely and yet you still cause damage, plus at 0 does your hitbox magically return to normal? Personally I think shields should add time you are on radar after someone has "spotted" you with their LOS. If you've played BF you'll no what I mean by spotting. Assuming now the base is 0 (meaning the second after you break LOS you are removed from radar) then an Extender should add 1 sec (open for discussion) to time you remain on radar after LOS is broken. One issue with shields is that you must retreat and wait for the delay before regen starts. This means you must "hide." Adding to the spot time makes "hiding" harder making the delau that much more difficult to deal with.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 206	Posted - 2013.07.23 00:31:00 - [57] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: lol a penalty for shields? You're a brave man for suggesting this to CCP. This is the way Eve works, I'm actually surprised it is different in Dust.
Courier VII Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:13:00 - [58] - Quote This is one of the funnier posts out there. I would like to point out the obvious: shield extenders don't give you as much shield as armor plates. Also, shields have a lapse in recharge time as opposed to armor repairers, which start immediately. Essentially, armor fits want to have their cake and eat ours too. All these complaints about armor being slow ignore the fact that armor fits can hold nearly 100 more HP than most shield fits can. A Caldari Assault Proto holds 518 shields at maximum. So I'm fine with shield extenders that have negative impacts on a fit if we get the same amount of shield HP out of them. Otherwise, you sound like a bunch of Anti-Caldari whiners who just wanna be the first to find the next OP weapon or fit to take advantage of.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 107	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:37:00 - [59] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: Complex shield extenders should increase your DB detection rate by 10% or more and increase the range you can be detected at. As you are running a more energy emitting suit you should be far easier to pick up from enemy suit scanners and from further away. Sounds good to me. After all even in Eve Online Shields have a downside: Bigger signature.
Lucifalic Baked n Loaded 9	Posted - 2013.07.23 23:37:00 - [60] - Quote Exergonic wrote: Lucifalic wrote: Awesome idea. Let's make scouts even more useless If you think scouts are useless you're doing it wrong... Scouts are nano tanks.. l2strafe Scouts have the best scanners in the game... L2pickyourfights?? You know how many are in the room faster then anyone else... A heavy doesn't win 3v1 what makes you think a scout could?? Eve is a game of counters... If dust hopes to live in New Eden it needs that as well play against me and see if im scouting wrong ;)



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