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TERMINALANCE
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
142
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Complex shield extenders should increase your DB detection rate by 10% or more and increase the range you can be detected at. As you are running a more energy emitting suit you should be far easier to pick up from enemy suit scanners and from further away. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
848
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
lol a penalty for shields?
You're a brave man for suggesting this to CCP. |
TERMINALANCE
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
142
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:lol a penalty for shields?
You're a brave man for suggesting this to CCP.
I feel its a fair counter balance to Armor penalties. |
Calroon DeVil
Internal Error.
90
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP loves shields, hates armor. 10 years of EVE is a pretty good representation of that. They wont do anything about it. |
Exergonic
TeamPlayers EoN.
228
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:lol a penalty for shields?
You're a brave man for suggesting this to CCP.
CCP are the ones who made it so lol
In Eve Shield extenders increase your Signature radius...
I agree with this... Maybe make it so Shields can be detected faster by our scanners?? |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
673
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Going by EVE drawback, shield do increase your sig radius so that wouldn't seem very unlikely. Just as plates in EVE adds to your mass. |
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
611
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
You dB level is a pointless stat since everyone has a scan radius of 10 meters. Nobody is trying to sneak within 10 meters of someone's back. It needs to be substantially increased, I mean very substantially increased. Take the average distance that scouts tend to hid behind walls when sneaking into a base, and extend it to that. Now people are actually starting to get detected passively, except scouts with lower dB, and having shields increase your dB would actually be a penalty. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
658
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree, there seems to be little drawback to shields other than flux. I like the idea of giving shields a drawback similar to armor. Increasing the dB, increasing the amount of time it takes for shields to rebound after hitting zero or some type of increased resource consumption. |
Racro 01 Arifistan
The Surrogates Of War
6
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:lol a penalty for shields?
You're a brave man for suggesting this to CCP.
in eve fitting armour plates and rigs affects your speed like in dust its the same. the trade off is a speed reduction therby making it easier to hit us. for shields they get increse to shield by fitting extenders and shield rigs. the trade off is they increse thier signitur radius makeing it eaiser for them to be tracked and hit by larger guns. its basically like thier moving as fast as an armour tanked ship. |
Lucifalic
Baked n Loaded
5
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Awesome idea. Let's make scouts even more useless |
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
815
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
I can't wait for the scanning and profile update. I wonder where it is on the backlog. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
612
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:Awesome idea. Let's make scouts even more useless Scouts would still have lower dB than anyone else. Doing a system like this though would likely require changing each suit's scanning precision so it has a higher dB than your base profile signature. Along with a massive increase to scan radius and a slew of other changes that would be needed anyways to make passive scanning actually work. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
850
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
TERMINALANCE wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:lol a penalty for shields?
You're a brave man for suggesting this to CCP. I feel its a fair counter balance to Armor penalties. Yeah that's what I'm laughing about.
A penalty for shields would be nice but with a year playing this game, shields have had very minuscule penalties when compared to armor.
In Dust (not sure about EVE) it seems that they favor shields more than anything.
So hence, "You're a brave man for suggesting this." |
TERMINALANCE
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
144
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:Awesome idea. Let's make scouts even more useless
scouts have a tradeoff between running shields for less sneaky faster approach, or a slower more stealthy armor approach. Makes sense to me.
Baring the fact scouts are broken anyway should not stand in the way of fixing other game issues. Scouts will be rebalanced this in no way prevents that.
you could pretty much have every change made in this game and somehow relate it to making scouts more useless.
last thing we need is more 7 degrees of bad scouts. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2780
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
ChribbaX wrote:Going by EVE drawback, shield do increase your sig radius so that wouldn't seem very unlikely. Just as plates in EVE adds to your mass. I still don't like how the movement penalty works for armor as a flat out reduction in top speed. Instead, it should be like vehicles, where it increases how long it takes for you to get to your top speed when moving or increase stamina consumption when sprinting.
Lucifalic wrote:Awesome idea. Let's make scouts even more useless Scout suits already need some work. Even before 1.2 I've been saying that the dampening bonus needs to get a buff. This would be a good way to offset the shield penalty for the Minmatar. The Caldari, probably won't really benefit from it since it'll most likely be groomed for EWAR debuffs or sniping. |
Exergonic
TeamPlayers EoN.
229
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:Awesome idea. Let's make scouts even more useless
If you think scouts are useless you're doing it wrong...
Scouts are nano tanks.. l2strafe
Scouts have the best scanners in the game... L2pickyourfights?? You know how many are in the room faster then anyone else... A heavy doesn't win 3v1 what makes you think a scout could??
Eve is a game of counters... If dust hopes to live in New Eden it needs that as well |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
726
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
I run pure shields and fully support this idea.
It would make rechargers + regulators an interesting alternative for sneaky suits. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3275
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
The sig penalty wouldn't be a fair thing if you think about it. dB is a useless stat. What shields should do is increase your hit box. Armor makes you slower and easier to hit that way, shields don't make you slower but sitll make you easier to hit.
And add resistance modules that don't have such penalties, so we could go DFT warrioring. (It is now a verb cuz I say so) |
Exergonic
TeamPlayers EoN.
229
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The sig penalty wouldn't be a fair thing if you think about it. dB is a useless stat. What shields should do is increase your hit box. Armor makes you slower and easier to hit that way, shields don't make you slower but sitll make you easier to hit.
And add resistance modules that don't have such penalties, so we could go DFT warrioring. (It is now a verb cuz I say so)
If they go this route they need to change how damage is done...For example Nades would then be based on the Hitbox of the suit (Scouts would take less from a nade then Heavys) |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3349
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Stealth in a mostly action-oriented shooter is about two aspects that BOTH need to be present for it to be meaningful.
1. Remaining undetected. 2. moving fast when you need to move.
If you have to choose between those two things, you're breaking the viability of stealth in the game. The drawback of shields is quite simply that they give you less HP than armour. If Shield Extenders get a Profile penalty, they should also give the same HP as Plates.
The problem here ISN'T shields being OP, it's armour needing a slight buff. A little extra HP (mostly for higher-tier) or an overhaul to armour modules so higher-tier armour isn't giving larger drawbacks. |
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Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
936
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP. |
Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
279
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP.
+1 If they will not decrease armor speed penalties they need to implement this. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
863
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Posted - 2013.07.18 20:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Shields are supposed to give you a larger signature radius, which means you are easier to detect and hit. I imagine because the "field" itself is being "extended", your hitbox should also increase as long as you are within shield HP. +1 as well. That's a great idea. |
Pikachu Power
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
35
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Posted - 2013.07.18 20:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
TERMINALANCE wrote:Complex shield extenders should increase your DB detection rate by 10% or more and increase the range you can be detected at. As you are running a more energy emitting suit you should be far easier to pick up from enemy suit scanners and from further away.
I agree and im a killdari logi.
also...rah... |
Poonmunch
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
111
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Posted - 2013.07.18 21:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cool idea.
Munch |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
984
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Posted - 2013.07.18 22:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Stealth in a mostly action-oriented shooter is about two aspects that BOTH need to be present for it to be meaningful.
1. Remaining undetected. 2. moving fast when you need to move.
If you have to choose between those two things, you're breaking the viability of stealth in the game. The drawback of shields is quite simply that they give you less HP than armour. If Shield Extenders get a Profile penalty, they should also give the same HP as Plates.
The problem here ISN'T shields being OP, it's armour needing a slight buff. A little extra HP (mostly for higher-tier) or an overhaul to armour modules so higher-tier armour isn't giving larger drawbacks. Implementing the above suggestion wouldn't break stealth in this game - it would simply mean people have to think differently about how they do it. Stealth oriented players would basically have to give up any tanking capabilities but they could still 'remain undetected' and be 'fast when you need to move'.
That said, I agree that armour needs tweaking but rather than more HP, less penalty - 10% is far far too much.
Edit - oh, also, yeah, in order for the OP suggestion to actually have any impact at all, the entire passive scanning and LOS identification system needs to be overhauled so profile and precision actually mean something. |
Vavilia Lysenko
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
176
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Posted - 2013.07.18 22:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
TERMINALANCE wrote:Complex shield extenders should increase your DB detection rate by 10% or more and increase the range you can be detected at. As you are running a more energy emitting suit you should be far easier to pick up from enemy suit scanners and from further away.
Absolutely.
Shield extenders increase your Signature Radius in the rest of New Eden why not on the ground. |
Dynnen Vvardenfell
187. League of Infamy
19
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Posted - 2013.07.18 22:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
This suggestion will not make sense initially, but let me explain. Change the damage modifiers from 120% to armor and 80% to shields to 110% to shields and 90% to armor. The reason being is how fragmentation weapons work. An anti-personnel explosive weapon is designed to fragment into smaller pieces to cause as much damage to unprotected areas. Since we are all wearing armored dropsuits it would stand to reason that the armor would protect from slower moving projectiles very effectively and the kinetic energy from the explosion would be dispersed evenly over the armor. However when detonating these explosives near a shielding device, the shield field would distort the kinetic energy released from the explosion and take secondary damage from the fragmentation of the device.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=95508&find=unread
=D |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
715
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Posted - 2013.07.18 22:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
nah
Shields should make you more heavy.
Batteries weigh more then spider silk and Kevlar. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3355
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Posted - 2013.07.19 02:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Stealth in a mostly action-oriented shooter is about two aspects that BOTH need to be present for it to be meaningful.
1. Remaining undetected. 2. moving fast when you need to move.
If you have to choose between those two things, you're breaking the viability of stealth in the game. The drawback of shields is quite simply that they give you less HP than armour. If Shield Extenders get a Profile penalty, they should also give the same HP as Plates.
The problem here ISN'T shields being OP, it's armour needing a slight buff. A little extra HP (mostly for higher-tier) or an overhaul to armour modules so higher-tier armour isn't giving larger drawbacks. Implementing the above suggestion wouldn't break stealth in this game - it would simply mean people have to think differently about how they do it. Stealth oriented players would basically have to give up any tanking capabilities but they could still 'remain undetected' and be 'fast when you need to move'. That said, I agree that armour needs tweaking but rather than more HP, less penalty - 10% is far far too much. Edit - oh, also, yeah, in order for the OP suggestion to actually have any impact at all, the entire passive scanning and LOS identification system needs to be overhauled so profile and precision actually mean something. In a stealth-focused game, with real and direct advantages to sneak attacks, it would be plausible to have no tank so you can be stealthy.
Which is why I opened my post with the line "Stealth in a mostly action-oriented shooter" because that's what DUST is.
Stealth is a side-note to the core gameplay. The Last of Us does stealth by forcing a choice between stealth and speed, but stealth is a core mechanic in both single player and multiplayer, and there are very real advantages to getting the drop on your enemy. In DUST, you deal precisely ZERO bonus damage by hitting someone from behind, and are given precisely ZERO weapons that are guaranteed instant kill against an enemy because you're behind them, and precisely ZERO weapons that can incapacitate an enemy or group to facilitate quick kills. Some suits are designed so the head hitbox is nearly invisible when they're attacked from behind, negating one of the biggest advantages that CAN be claimed with a sneak attack in DUST.
DUST is an action-focused game. For stealth elements to work in DUST, they NEED to allow for some measure of defensive option WITHOUT giving up speed. |
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