Keep splash damage at 1m across all models.

Done.

Clearly you haven't used the standard flaylock...else you wouldn't make game breaking suggestions like this.

Give it a rest. You're the only person on these forums who doesn't think the weapon is OP. All other conversations are on how best to nerf it.

Fact is, the majority of whiners simply seem to suck at the game who don't have enough brain cells to come up with counters. Not only that, they also double down by making stupid suggestions like changing the splash range to 1m

Give it a rest. You're the only person on these forums who doesn't think the weapon is OP. All other conversations are on how best to nerf it.

He's talking the truth, the Flaylock is fine, the Mass Driver kills me alot more often, but neither is OP. 2m of Splash damage is NOTHING. The splash damage in this entire game is pathetic, if anything, buff splash damage on all explosives.

make it av

Except some people look at overall stats and the state of the game, particularly in the top end matches.

How often a pubbie gets killed in a pub match by ANY weapon is NOT a good indication of balance. Except LAVs. Because **** LAVs.

OMFG he just said buff splash damage on explosives.

I'm out.

stay out

Hmm, the top corps must really suck at this game since they all seem to use the flaylock so much

Ohhhhh, you meant counter the flaylock WITH the flaylock.

My bad. Brilliance.

Keep the splash radius the same, but drastically lower its splash damage and increase the projectile speed. Bam. Requires skill to use, but can still be used as a suppressive weapon or used to mop up wounded enemies.

A balance suggestion is just that, a suggestion, quit getting so bent out of shape; you act like we're shooting you with a flaylock or something.

R'adeh Hunt we're still waiting on your "research"...

No, I didn't say "counter the flaylock with the flaylock"...there are plenty of counters available if you just switch on your brain. I posted plenty of counters in the other thread, but I guess actually having to think is harder than to whine on the forums

Your "counters" always revert to namecalling...it seems you are just trying to avoid to finally prove your point, but don't worry I can be patient.

This.
The Flaylock is short range weapon, if you get up close with a shotgun and it kills you in one hit, is that OP? Take them out from a distance and stop being such a bad player.

Shotgun is a light weapon
Shotgun requires speed to get up close quickly
Shotguns don't deal damage when you miss
Shotguns have significantly longer reload
Shotguns suffer much more from hit detection

These arguments are mostly pointless because the majority of Flaylock defenders lack the ability to see that it's a SIDEARM, and that it is significantly easier to use effectively than SMGs, Scrambler Pistols, or Nova Knives.

Shotgun is a light weapon
Shotgun requires speed to get up close quickly
Shotguns don't deal damage when you miss
Shotguns have significantly longer reload
Shotguns suffer much more from hit detection

These arguments are mostly pointless because the majority of Flaylock defenders lack the ability to see that it's a SIDEARM, and that it is significantly easier to use effectively than SMGs, Scrambler Pistols, or Nova Knives.

1) Don't move in predicable ways.
2) Don't stand still.
3) Use cover.
4) Use the "only 3 shots" to your advantage when engaging a flaylocker.
5) Don't approach a flaylocker in a straight line (this is one of the key mistakes ppl make btw).
6) Keep your distance.
7) Don't expect to win against CQC weapon like the flaylock when using an AR

It's easier to use than SMGs? I can mow down a heavy in one clip from my SMG, in several seconds, my fittings are split 50/50 between SMG and Flaylock. Yes, it's a sidearm, yes, it's powerful, if you skill up to ADV, even Proto with proficiency, and rightly so, it should be, we've worked for it. The shotgun has 6 OHK's in the clip, the Flaylock has ONE kill in the clip, by the time you reload, if you're against more than one person, you are dead. It's not as easy to use as people are making out, the splash range is pitiful AND it's ALREADY been nerfed, the core used to have 3m splash radius, now it has two.

Plasma Cannon Sidearm, is that what you people want? ****.

Dale Templar will be happy once he can kill multiple people with a flaylock. Please buff the flaylock.

Keep splash damage at 1m across all models.

Done.

So now you admit that you can't even read?

1) Don't move in predicable ways.
2) Don't stand still.
3) Use cover.
4) Use the "only 3 shots" to your advantage when engaging a flaylocker.
5) Don't approach a flaylocker in a straight line (this is one of the key mistakes ppl make btw).
6) Keep your distance.
7) Don't expect to win against CQC weapon like the flaylock when using an AR

I guess that's too challenging for you and not being able to run at someone in a straight line while "spraying and praying" is too much of an issue

1.) Generic rabble, it's a splash damage weapon. You can only move so quickly in so many ways, and many of those ways fit within the corelocks splash radius if aimed just a little.
2.) Generic rabble. We know this, this applies to anything in game. Also, you have a splash damage weapon with high direct damage, so even if they stand still, AND you miss, you'll still do damage
3.) Generic rabble. We know this, it's part of the game. You have a splash damage weapon, which largely negates much of what counts for cover on these maps if aimed properly.
4.) This is reasonable advice, though the reload is lightning fast, and many people are starting to carry 2
5.) This again doesn't matter because splash damage. I use the advanced one from time to time and I never ever have an issue hitting people strafing me, and I'm a freaking Heavy
6.) Generic rabble / partway useful advice. We know to keep distance, unless we run CQC builds, which are largely negated by this sidearm weapon. Keeping your distance does help to throw of flaylock shots, because it's harder for them to get a height advantage on you.
7.) Flaylock is a sidearm that works at extreme close to medium / midlong range (if above) AR requires you to constantly track while strafing and trying to get headshots. The recoil still isn't high enough, and we could use a jam / overheat on the guns, but overall, the two battles are drastically different.

I can't wait for your butthurt when they nerf the Flaylock into oblivion

I will drink your QQ tears.

Shotgun is a light weapon
Shotgun requires speed to get up close quickly
Shotguns don't deal damage when you miss
Shotguns have significantly longer reload
Shotguns suffer much more from hit detection

These arguments are mostly pointless because the majority of Flaylock defenders lack the ability to see that it's a SIDEARM, and that it is significantly easier to use effectively than SMGs, Scrambler Pistols, or Nova Knives.

It's easier to use than SMGs? I can mow down a heavy in one clip from my SMG, in several seconds, my fittings are split 50/50 between SMG and Flaylock. Yes, it's a sidearm, yes, it's powerful, if you skill up to ADV, even Proto with proficiency, and rightly so, it should be, we've worked for it. The shotgun has 6 OHK's in the clip, the Flaylock has ONE kill in the clip, by the time you reload, if you're against more than one person, you are dead. It's not as easy to use as people are making out, the splash range is pitiful AND it's ALREADY been nerfed, the core used to have 3m splash radius, now it has two.

Plasma Cannon Sidearm, is that what you people want? ****.

nerf the Flaylock into oblivion

Don't buff the Flaylock, Don't nerf the Flaylock, the Flaylock is fine was my general point.

My only question here is how in the actual **** are you killing a heavy with an SMG faster than you are with a flaylock?

Don't get me wrong, you're preaching to the choir about SMGs, I've used them as a primary in the past on my scout (back when they were ABSURD, kind of like the flaylock is right now, actually....) Even so, I use my SMG as well. I've used just about every weapon and vehicle in this game to a reasonable extent over the past 13 months, and I've watched things get buffed and nerfed and I know what's a silly weapon compared to a reasonably balanced one.

You're welcome to continue blowing smoke for your amusement, but I give it two months tops (though likely sooner) before it's brought back in line in some way.

I think the rate of fire needs adjusting.

You were telling us that you can kill a heavy with one clip of a SMG, this seems like a 1on1 situation to me.
Then you start talking about the flaylock versus more than ONE enemy...

You're telling us that a shotgun has a 6 kill-potential and the flaylock only has a 1-kill potential with 1 clip without going into the playstyles of both weapons.

Plasma Cannon as sidearm?

I'm thinking you don't know what you are talking about....

3) To say splash damage negates cover is probably the most ridiculous thing I read on the forums today

You have a splash damage weapon, which largely negates much of what counts for cover on these maps if aimed properly.

Aim for the head?

You were telling us that you can kill a heavy with one clip of a SMG, this seems like a 1on1 situation to me.
Then you start talking about the flaylock versus more than ONE enemy...

You're telling us that a shotgun has a 6 kill-potential and the flaylock only has a 1-kill potential with 1 clip without going into the playstyles of both weapons.

I'm thinking you don't know what you are talking about....

Stopped reading here.

Most cover in this game is short and thin, for the most part. When you have a weapon with reasonable splash radius and high splash damage, you can aim just behind the corner that they're using as cover, or jumping up and shooting just behind the cover.

Either instance negates cover, and deals near optimal damage.

What I said is

In what world. Anywhere. Is aiming for the dancing head, easier than aiming for the ground?

I won't respond to your answer, have an excellent day.

Better fix is to Remove them, we already have the Mass Driver which is now better since the splash damage has been fixed.

Better fix is to Remove them, we already have the Mass Driver which is now better since the splash damage has been fixed.

We should remove any sidearm that isn't a nova knife then, at least until we get nova swords

You guys are just being ridiculous. I've engaged proto heavies with boundless hmgs which they put away to shoot core flaylocks at me. I've seen people miss all the majority of their AR shots because of a simple left to right strafe, and they pull out a flaylock to shoot at my feet for 400 dmg. This thing has totally altered the way battles go, from pubstomps to very competitive PC battles

The only time the flaylock is at a disadvantage is against other flaylocks and fast shotgunners with lots of stamina to close gap and win the ensuing bunnyhop war as flaylocks are spammed at feet, and even that can be tipped in flaylocks favor with flux grenades.

They're also at a disadvantage if there is cover around, at range, and when facing more than 1 opponent.

@Dale Templar: I was just arguing that if you try to shoot a heavy witha SMG with more enemies around you would probably end up dead too like when you face a group of people with a flaylock. Do you have to get up close with a flaylock to kill someone? Which has the potential to get you killed first? shooting from a distance or running up close?

Anyway it's fun to talk about weapons without highlighting all variables. Let us endthis discussion and wait untill R'adeh Hunt drops his "research".

Or shooting at someone on higher ground.

Linking me to the search-function doesn't help me as I already stated that I can't find the data you are referring to...maybe it doesn't exist...I don't know...so why don't you link me to that data? or are you afraid that the data isn't in your favor?

PS: what weapon isn't in disadvantage if there is cover around...it's also the first time I would see a soldier charge multiple people with a PISTOL at range...I thought you mastered pistols?

what higer ground? you guys spam all these scenarios where flaylocks are at disadvantage but we are fighting on four maps each game with fairly generic terrain. Flaylocks can camp on all but the two tallest roofs on Spine crescent, all of the roofs on line harvest along with the pipes, the roofs and pipes on ashlands... etc

Because I'm not gonna waste 20min+ to search for something I know to be true. Don't believe me? Prove me wrong (which you obviously aren't able to do). The proto SMG/SP are just as good as the proto flaylock. In some respects their better, in some others their worse...it all comes down to tactics.

As for the SP, it rocks at range compared to the flaylock.

Apparently you would like to spend more than 20min+ to convince everyone that there is nothing wrong with the flaylock just because you say so.

You have a lot of credibilty .

So the the short range on the SMG or shotgun isn't a disadvantage because you can just "close the distance", that's perfectly sound reasoning

So the the short range on the SMG or shotgun isn't a disadvantage because you can just "close the distance", that's perfectly sound reasoning

Well, what do you expect if 99% of suggestions are ridiculously stupid and the majority of people seem to dumb to adapt their tactics. Once the flaylock is nerfed, they'll simply start whining about the proto SMG...and then the SP.

Fact is, the majority of whiners simply seem to suck at the game who don't have enough brain cells to come up with counters. Not only that, they also double down by making stupid suggestions like changing the splash range to 1m

Mhhh, yeah...of course I would. If you don't believe me, look up the stats yourself. You clearly haven't used the other sidearms at proto level

Well, what do you expect if 99% of suggestions are ridiculously stupid and the majority of people seem to dumb to adapt their tactics. Once the flaylock is nerfed, they'll simply start whining about the proto SMG...and then the SP.

Fact is, the majority of whiners simply seem to suck at the game who don't have enough brain cells to come up with counters. Not only that, they also double down by making stupid suggestions like changing the splash range to 1m

Because I'm not gonna waste 20min+ to search for something I know to be true. Don't believe me? Prove me wrong (which you obviously aren't able to do). The proto SMG/SP are just as good as the proto flaylock. In some respects their better, in some others their worse...it all comes down to tactics.

As for the SP, it rocks at range compared to the flaylock.

I've been playing this game since this time last year. SMGs and Scrambler Pistols have been around that entire time and I've never seen a sustained, never mind prolific, attempt to nerf either. The Flaylock has been out little more than a month and has attracted the ire of pretty much everyone who plays PC, and most of everyone else.
So don't tell me a nerf of one sidearm will just draw that attention to the others, it's BS.
When a sidearm outdoes the efficacy of a light weapon, there is a problem that needs addressing.

A splash radius of 1m will maintain its DPS for skilled players, will hold it in keeping with its weapon type (they're rockets not grenades), and will remove the weapon's disproportionate increase in effectiveness from standard to proto.

"That's because very few people have actually bothered to skill the SMG/SP to proto level."

Plenty have. Flaylocks saw a sudden boost in activity when their use reached a critical mass of people realising how powerful they were.
Your reasoning is also backwards. People don't think it's OP because more have skilled into it. People skilled into it because it's OP.

I don't think I'll be responding to any more of your posts. You're either naive, stupid, or a troll.

You guys are saying it cant shoot up higher ranges, when in actuality it can; you guys are saying it cannot shoot down from these same elevated positions, yet it can...but I see the circle jerk has started in earnest and i cant be heard over all the slapping noises

best way to fix flaylock is to remove it :D