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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
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CCP Mintchip
C C P C C P Alliance
496
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey! Do you like graphs? How about math?! Are you excited to talk about the balancing of Planetary Conquest? I bet you are! Me too! I hope you jog on over to this new dev blog iterating a lot of graphs and math all about it! Brought to you by our very own shoeless companion, professional football player, and balancing extraordinaire CCP FoxFour. Tell us what you think in the comments below, he's here ready to chat with you about it!
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep |
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2-Ton Twenty-One
Internal Error. League of Infamy
668
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
No one does dev blogs like Foxfour
Probably because they normally hide the crayons and glitter from him |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25007
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Looking forward to discussing this all with you guys! CCP Nullarbor is around as well to answer questions you guys might have. :D |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1706
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Graphs are hot.
So is feedback on this stuff, let us know what you think because we want to deploy it all Thursday :-) |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
537
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
All your planets are belong to us! |
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
R.I.f.t
22
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Two Days?!? What is this madness? You guys really are insane. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25171
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Two Days?!? What is this madness? You guys really are insane.
Don't know if anyone ever said we were sane... :P |
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CCP Mintchip
C C P C C P Alliance
503
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
In case you'd like to enjoy the live footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7D8V_oZuDU
<3 FoxFour
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep |
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
51
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm loving the changes you guys are making to attack/defending. As it stands now taking a district is such a tedious multi-day process that it makes it seem like a job. The new changes will make it much more convenient for corporations to be able to launch attacks in a more timely manner. I've had battles where the enemy corp effectively gave up and it took multiple days to take a district that no one was even showing up to. This will definitely alleviate that problem.
As far as the changes in prices, I'm thinking we will start to see a lot more smaller corps trying to take districts which will be very helpful. Right now there is too much of a delicate power struggle between giant alliance conglomerates and not enough competition. The cheaper costs in attacking will incentivize those corps that just want to battle and have fun.
With that said, what I'd really like to see is a variation in game types for PC, or at least some sort of progressive battles. Right now taking districts can be rather monotonous because we fight the same game type on the same map multiple times until an arbitrary number (clones) reaches zero. It would be nice if after winning one battle, a slider of sorts would progress the attackers into the next stage. Effectively this could allow corps to win districts in two ways: slaughtering all the clones until there is no one left, or taking the strategic approach by conquering the map objectives. I'm probably not elucidating as clear as I could, but what I'm really hoping for in PC is some kind of dynamic besides "kill all the clones". In real battles, you don't fight until you have no one left. Sometimes you have to run and something like this could allow corps to "retreat" and allow their clones to survive and defend another nearby district.
Other than that, great changes CCP! |
reydient
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
26
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think this is a really good move, especially in the profit section- War is not suppose to be cheap but at the victory line I want to come out of it feeling I made a profit,- My biggest concern has been that I will continue to grind ambush for isk to afford to participate in PC because lets face it- everyone is wearing "sunday's best dress" into PC battles . I like that a victorious defender can now have a day to rest from the attacker- The big question now is- in an alliance oriented world- if corporation A has a subcorp "little a" whats to keep "little a " from attacking the same district after corp A.
Better yet- if you defend your district successfully are you safe from all attackers or just the one particular? It seems that the intention was to keep larger corps with larger isk wallets from beating another corp due to attrition ( which is a great war tactic). |
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RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. League of Infamy
209
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Wow, for once I cant find something to complain about. All of this stuff looks pretty damn good. I especially like the attrition changes, it makes the research lab a possible asset whereas before there were really only two options for a surface infrastructure. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
552
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ok, PC is officially being broken more.
You're actually increasing the passive income generation?
So you really want this to become a good ol' boys club with vassals? |
Theresa Rohk
The Cuddlefish Templis Dragonaors
1
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 for graph fetish, and use of the phrase "Winsauce" in a public document.
Any updates on new suit content or fleshing out of the race lines? |
Nightbird Aeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries
213
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Question - Can/will the defender purchase a gen-pack to buff up the clones available within the district?
Also... having a research lab does wonders for clone survival in transit. Will any of the other structures have similar bonuses.... what will they be and when are they due out?
Also.... what about increasing the economic gain from holding all of a planet instead of just districts. Gives incentives to hold whole planets, and a joyful grief factor in breaking up blocks... |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
236
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
July 9th 2013
I failed to see in all their useless charts about the cost of PC battles did they once address the game's problem with how many players were disconnected, or had some game ruining glitch happen...be it frame rate drop or the problems with using a comm channel with too many active mics? How many players started and finished without a re-login to the battle?
"Remember push to talk is your Friend" line from the Dev's.... funny how that is just being swept under the rug....plans for a Comm channel system that works when officers want to talk? (but then again I like telling my buddy that 3 enemies are coming for him because seeing XXX (core flaylocked) Wakko03 just doesn't cut it to properly warn them and I didn't have time in the middle of the gun battle to hit the P2T button.
Not even going to discuss when I might be able to hit back against the ship in orbit, sure they can bomb me on the ground...where is my answer to that?
How about we discuss something like, I don't know ... say how many matches took place across multiple servers? How about the LAG... maybe players were spending so much money on the win/loss because they thought if they had the good stuff they could overcome a LAG problem. So in the instances where it was say America vs Europe or Europe vs Asia who did the lag favor more? With teams made of mixed groups Americans with Europeans and Asians vs say a team of all Europeans (vs Asians, Americans etc.)? |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25176
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
reydient wrote: if you defend your district successfully are you safe from all attackers or just the one particular?
All we are doing is saying if the attacker loses the battle they lose their exclusivity. Which was the only thing that let them get an attack in the following day. It effectively means anyone can now attack the district, including the attacking corporation that just lost, but the battle will not happen for at least 47 hours. |
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1864
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
I like that attackers can potentially take a district overnight, awesome step in the right direction by making battles more visceral and tense, as well as meaningful.
However, I personally think you guys killed attrition rates and took a lot of the risk out of moving clones. The old values, imo, were fine and the new values should be what they are from Research Labs. The new values (especially with research labs) take a lot of the thought process out of attacking as theres very little risk involved. Essentially, attacks can come from entire constellations away with very little attrition, and I think that takes a lot of the importance of proximity away.
Choke points might as well be non-existant without high attrition as enemies can just skip over systems and go right for the heart without even touching the fortified perimeter, and thats not quite how things should be as theres no way to stop it. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Internal Error. League of Infamy
668
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Just finished chewing thorough the whole thing and I support the changes. +1
I think it will breathe some much needed life into PC and do wonders for immersion and add tempo so you feel like you are fighting kinetic operations not just punch carding every 24 hours, its welcome.
The changes to attack and defense of districts should make things far more rewarding and stacked up with the new rewards and pricing it is certainly tempting for getting scraps going.
The only prob I see right now with this is that sure there are great rewards to get but what do I need the ISK for? I'm not a dragon. We need stuff to spend our ISK on and right now me and every other pro player is so bloated with cash I might as well buy the new FoxFour Ferrari LAV.
Really at this point what do I need ISK for? Incremental number Increase fetish? You might want to think about adding some things to the game for me to spend my half a billion personal ISK on.
As for the dev blog itself. Huge thumbs up from me. You gave us a decent amount of raw data explained what you felt you where seeing and what you wanted to see and what changes you where planing on implementing and what was being implemented when.
I hope to see more dev blogs in the future hand down more raw data and the thought processes that go into changes.
Hopefully the combat balance teams can take a page from this and we can see more raw data on combat/weapons in the future along with graphs and balancing processes for other parts of Dust 514.
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Spectral Clone
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
74
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dem graphs!!
This is very nice! It-¦s definately gonna cause some chaos :D |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
577
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
I love it, although I think that you should be able to attack again even after a loss immediately.
There are going to be a ton more fights from this, but I think the only downtime should be after a district trades hands. |
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Shadowswipe
WarRavens League of Infamy
138
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
If they have a cargo hub, they can withstand 3 attacks before losing the district. Does this mean that we can have 3 battles in one day as long as we have 100 clones left after the second battle? Or is it limited to only two fights a day? |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
549
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
They are hot. Thanks it was a fun read. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1717
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:July 9th 2013
I failed to see in all their useless charts about the cost of PC battles did they once address the game's problem with how many players were disconnected, or had some game ruining glitch happen...be it frame rate drop or the problems with using a comm channel with too many active mics? How many players started and finished without a re-login to the battle?
"Remember push to talk is your Friend" line from the Dev's.... funny how that is just being swept under the rug....plans for a Comm channel system that works when officers want to talk? (but then again I like telling my buddy that 3 enemies are coming for him because seeing XXX (core flaylocked) Wakko03 just doesn't cut it to properly warn them and I didn't have time in the middle of the gun battle to hit the P2T button.
Not even going to discuss when I might be able to hit back against the ship in orbit, sure they can bomb me on the ground...where is my answer to that?
How about we discuss something like, I don't know ... say how many matches took place across multiple servers? How about the LAG... maybe players were spending so much money on the win/loss because they thought if they had the good stuff they could overcome a LAG problem. So in the instances where it was say America vs Europe or Europe vs Asia who did the lag favor more? With teams made of mixed groups Americans with Europeans and Asians vs say a team of all Europeans (vs Asians, Americans etc.)?
Disconnects and frame rate are absolutely being worked on, in fact we had a performance test last night with the guys from Subdreddit and SyNergy Gaming who have been helping us out stress testing PC battles while we monitor what goes on. None of that is mentioned in this dev blog though because we have other teams doing that work and IIRC there will be a blog specifically explaining some of those performance changes.
As for the regional issues you mentioned? That is just part of life in a single shard game, we have reinforce timers to help dictate when (and thus physically where for the purposes of network latency) but sometimes the laws of physics cannot be circumvented and players will need to organize around that. We are keeping track of latency in PC battles and making improvements to how the game performs when players are further away. We also spend a lot of time thinking about ways to make cross regional warfare easier to manage, but that may be better left for a different blog as well. |
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1864
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I love it, although I think that you should be able to attack again even after a loss immediately.
There are going to be a ton more fights from this, but I think the only downtime should be after a district trades hands.
Would take away the importance of winning, imo. Theres minimum clone loss so why fight at 110% when you can just burn the enemy out on defending? I like that defenders can get a moment to breathe before being attacked again if they worked hard to keep their district, especially with the threat of multiple attackers over other districts. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1717
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:If they have a cargo hub, they can withstand 3 attacks before losing the district. Does this mean that we can have 3 battles in one day as long as we have 100 clones left after the second battle? Or is it limited to only two fights a day?
You can have 3 fights in a row yes. |
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
577
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:Just finished chewing thorough the whole thing and I support the changes. +1
I think it will breathe some much needed life into PC and do wonders for immersion and add tempo so you feel like you are fighting kinetic operations not just punch carding every 24 hours, its welcome.
The changes to attack and defense of districts should make things far more rewarding and stacked up with the new rewards and pricing it is certainly tempting for getting scraps going.
The only prob I see right now with this is that sure there are great rewards to get but what do I need the ISK for? I'm not a dragon. We need stuff to spend our ISK on and right now me and every other pro player is so bloated with cash I might as well buy the new FoxFour Le Mans LAV.
Really at this point what do I need ISK for? Incremental number Increase fetish? You might want to think about adding some things to the game for me to spend my half a billion personal ISK on.
As for the dev blog itself. Huge thumbs up from me. You gave us a decent amount of raw data explained what you felt you where seeing and what you wanted to see and what changes you where planing on implementing and what was being implemented when.
I hope to see more dev blogs in the future hand down more raw data and the thought processes that go into changes.
Hopefully the combat balance teams can take a page from this and we can see more raw data on combat/weapons in the future along with graphs and balancing processes for other parts of Dust 514.
I hear what you are saying about the isk thing, but it's certainly not the case for non pro players. I think a majority of guys have to grind in BPOs or AFK to build large piles of isk.
Grinding in BPOs doesn't interest me.
And Pro players should earn more isk. I think this is a realistic scenario.
I'm sure someday there will be things you can blow money on.
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1864
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:Just finished chewing thorough the whole thing and I support the changes. +1
I think it will breathe some much needed life into PC and do wonders for immersion and add tempo so you feel like you are fighting kinetic operations not just punch carding every 24 hours, its welcome.
The changes to attack and defense of districts should make things far more rewarding and stacked up with the new rewards and pricing it is certainly tempting for getting scraps going.
The only prob I see right now with this is that sure there are great rewards to get but what do I need the ISK for? I'm not a dragon. We need stuff to spend our ISK on and right now me and every other pro player is so bloated with cash I might as well buy the new FoxFour Le Mans LAV.
Really at this point what do I need ISK for? Incremental number Increase fetish? You might want to think about adding some things to the game for me to spend my half a billion personal ISK on.
As for the dev blog itself. Huge thumbs up from me. You gave us a decent amount of raw data explained what you felt you where seeing and what you wanted to see and what changes you where planing on implementing and what was being implemented when.
I hope to see more dev blogs in the future hand down more raw data and the thought processes that go into changes.
Hopefully the combat balance teams can take a page from this and we can see more raw data on combat/weapons in the future along with graphs and balancing processes for other parts of Dust 514. I hear what you are saying about the isk thing, but it's certainly not the case for non pro players. I think a majority of guys have to grind in BPOs or AFK to build large piles of isk. Grinding in BPOs doesn't interest me. And Pro players should earn more isk. I think this is a realistic scenario. I'm sure someday there will be things you can blow money on.
ISK for vanity/aurum items. But like... a boat load of ISK. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
577
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I love it, although I think that you should be able to attack again even after a loss immediately.
There are going to be a ton more fights from this, but I think the only downtime should be after a district trades hands. Would take away the importance of winning, imo. Theres minimum clone loss so why fight at 110% when you can just burn the enemy out on defending? I like that defenders can get a moment to breathe before being attacked again if they worked hard to keep their district, especially with the threat of multiple attackers over other districts.
If they don't have 100 clones they wouldn't be able to.
In other words you could attack with 300 clones. Lose the first battle, but have 150 clones remaining. Technically you could win the 2nd and still have 100 clones remaining to fight a 3rd.
This sounds interesting to me. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1868
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Posted - 2013.07.09 18:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I love it, although I think that you should be able to attack again even after a loss immediately.
There are going to be a ton more fights from this, but I think the only downtime should be after a district trades hands. Would take away the importance of winning, imo. Theres minimum clone loss so why fight at 110% when you can just burn the enemy out on defending? I like that defenders can get a moment to breathe before being attacked again if they worked hard to keep their district, especially with the threat of multiple attackers over other districts. If they don't have 100 clones they wouldn't be able to. In other words you could attack with 300 clones. Lose the first battle, but have 150 clones remaining. Technically you could win the 2nd and still have 100 clones remaining to fight a 3rd. This sounds interesting to me.
Yeah but wheres the line get drawn exactly? I mean, defenders have to rally up a team, fight and then have to fight again no matter what just because the attackers launched an attack from a cargo hub on a research facility? Theyd lose just because of clone loss as theres no way to fend off the larger amount. Wed just see endless cargo hubs all over the place, especially with the new reduced attrition numbers. |
reydient
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
27
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Posted - 2013.07.09 18:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:reydient wrote: if you defend your district successfully are you safe from all attackers or just the one particular? All we are doing is saying if the attacker loses the battle they lose their exclusivity. Which was the only thing that let them get an attack in the following day. It effectively means anyone can now attack the district, including the attacking corporation that just lost, but the battle will not happen for at least 47 hours.
Thats a big breath of fresh air ! |
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