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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1706
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Graphs are hot.
So is feedback on this stuff, let us know what you think because we want to deploy it all Thursday :-) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1717
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:July 9th 2013
I failed to see in all their useless charts about the cost of PC battles did they once address the game's problem with how many players were disconnected, or had some game ruining glitch happen...be it frame rate drop or the problems with using a comm channel with too many active mics? How many players started and finished without a re-login to the battle?
"Remember push to talk is your Friend" line from the Dev's.... funny how that is just being swept under the rug....plans for a Comm channel system that works when officers want to talk? (but then again I like telling my buddy that 3 enemies are coming for him because seeing XXX (core flaylocked) Wakko03 just doesn't cut it to properly warn them and I didn't have time in the middle of the gun battle to hit the P2T button.
Not even going to discuss when I might be able to hit back against the ship in orbit, sure they can bomb me on the ground...where is my answer to that?
How about we discuss something like, I don't know ... say how many matches took place across multiple servers? How about the LAG... maybe players were spending so much money on the win/loss because they thought if they had the good stuff they could overcome a LAG problem. So in the instances where it was say America vs Europe or Europe vs Asia who did the lag favor more? With teams made of mixed groups Americans with Europeans and Asians vs say a team of all Europeans (vs Asians, Americans etc.)?
Disconnects and frame rate are absolutely being worked on, in fact we had a performance test last night with the guys from Subdreddit and SyNergy Gaming who have been helping us out stress testing PC battles while we monitor what goes on. None of that is mentioned in this dev blog though because we have other teams doing that work and IIRC there will be a blog specifically explaining some of those performance changes.
As for the regional issues you mentioned? That is just part of life in a single shard game, we have reinforce timers to help dictate when (and thus physically where for the purposes of network latency) but sometimes the laws of physics cannot be circumvented and players will need to organize around that. We are keeping track of latency in PC battles and making improvements to how the game performs when players are further away. We also spend a lot of time thinking about ways to make cross regional warfare easier to manage, but that may be better left for a different blog as well. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1717
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:If they have a cargo hub, they can withstand 3 attacks before losing the district. Does this mean that we can have 3 battles in one day as long as we have 100 clones left after the second battle? Or is it limited to only two fights a day?
You can have 3 fights in a row yes. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1723
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Posted - 2013.07.09 18:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
The minimum clone loss is there to make sure that non cargo hubs are taken in 2 consecutive wins and cargo hubs in 3. Reducing this increases the number of consecutive wins required which we think gives the defender too much advantage and reduces some of the volatility of these changes.
We did consider the implications of dropping the minimum loss to 100 but decided it was not worth the cons. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1723
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Posted - 2013.07.09 18:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Flyingconejo wrote:Thanks for sharing the incoming changes with us, and for trying to fix some of the problems Planetary Conquest have. That said, I can't say that I liked many of those incoming changes. I think they will make PC more static and risk averse than it is now. But I will wait and see before talking about them.
However, there is one thing that has troubled me enough to write about it now. I think you have made harder for new corps to enter PC by themselves. This is because two of the changes you have made:
1) Genolution pack gives you only 100 clones.
2) A follow up attack is only allowed if you win.
1) Means that a corp that has no districts and wants to enter PC, will have to attack at least with a 3 to 1 clone disadvantage, unless they are lucky enough to find a district that is not full.
2) Means that you need to win 2 or 3 battles in a row to take a district. If the defender wins even only one of those battles, he will have 2 reinforcement cycles (160-200 clones) before the next attack, so their clone reserves would be at full capacity again. Which means the attacker is back to the start point in most cases, and makes conquering a district against a better opponent by attrition almost impossible.
The combination of 1) and 2) makes very difficult for corps that are not already in PC to enter Molden Heath by themselves. In most cases, they have to attack with 100 clones against 300, and at least win 2 battles in a row to conquer a district. It is cheaper, yes, but their chances of being successful are lower. They may pull it off if they are a very good corps, but lets be honest here, the very good corps are already in PC.
So you have to deal with this already because losing a fight sets you back 80-100 clones on your war of attrition, costing another clone pack to finish the job. The real big change is the geno packs are now only 30mil instead of 80 so the net result is cheaper even counting a loss along the way. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1734
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Posted - 2013.07.09 19:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ani X wrote:Will Uprising 1.3 also improve technical issues we had in Planetary Conquest battles?
Yes we have teams working on frame rate and stability alongside these changes, you already saw some of that work in 1.2 and more will be rolled out over the next few releases as well. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1758
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Posted - 2013.07.09 21:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote:Promising changes yet I see a potential problem having another battle take place 5 minutes after the first one finishes (assuming the attacker has their 100+ clones remaining from the last match). That gives very little time to basically take a breath and go over what went right/wrong in the previous match.
I say have the next match start ATLEAST 15-20 minutes After so that way both sides can breathe, restock any fittings, devise any alterations to strategies, etc.
You get 5 minutes + a 10 minute warbarge timer again. Making it longer increases the risk of overlapping timers which we are trying to somewhat avoid (but not entirely). |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1758
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Posted - 2013.07.09 21:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:The new defense system seems even more carebear than before.
Why should a single failed attack from one corp make a district impervious of attack from other cops for 2 days? All that happens is that if the attacker loses they lose their exclusivity for re-attack and the promise of a fight the next day. After they lose if they chose to re-attack the same district they will have to wait the same period as if they attacked any other district for the first time. So we are not really giving the district an extra defence, we are removing the attackers buff if they fail. Just to clarify this say attacking corp looses, their ally corp initiates follow up attack does corp number 2 also have to wait the 48 hours or would they be able to attack within 24 hours? Essentially being able to tag team a defending district?
They would need to wait 48 hours like everyone else. The exclusivity is only granted for 1 hour from the start of the battle and ONLY if the attacker wins. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1758
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Posted - 2013.07.09 21:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:How exactly is clone stealing going to work with the new "100+ clones means you get to attack again" deal. What if as the attacker I win, thereby stealing a number of clones (let's say 40), but only have 61 clones left after the battle? Does the 40 I stole get added to 61, thus giving me 101 clones and a chance to attack again right away? Clones stolen because of a win go straight back to the district the attack was launched from. They are not counted towards the 100 minimum. They cannot be used in the immediate follow up attacks. What about the followup attack can do you get a second round of clones to steal?
No only the first attack steals the clones, you basically take the next days worth of production cycle and prevent it from generating anymore. Attacking it again straight away does not produce anymore clones. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1758
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Posted - 2013.07.09 21:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Regarding the attrition, we want to create localized warfare which was the reason behind the attrition in the first place. However we feel it was too much of a penalty with the current values, we instead have some other ideas for later on which will make location more of a factor especially when we roll out additional regions. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1835
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Posted - 2013.07.11 12:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Ok. This are just my thoughts.
I'm a reasonably smart guy. I work in a bookies and I work with numbers daily basis. So the numbers being flung about so far is something I understand. And as I'm reading them in the new blog I had something of an epiphany.
This is incredibly dull.
The level of understanding required to get the most of your districts, risk/reward determinations, profit and loss, attrition rates blah blah bla.........snooze.
I know that their are players and corp that eat this all up with a ladle. But maybe I'm going out on a limb here to say this, I'm guessing these are in the minority.
The vast majority of players just want to shoot things. Nothing more complicated than that. And what they have right now are three options that are in fact just one.
An increasingly stale parade of Pub matches. Too infrequent Faction Warfare that offers nothing as a reward for participation. And Planetary Conquest, so convoluted in its complexity and of such value to an ISK starved economy that corporations are unwilling to allow anyone but their very best players in it, denying a majority access to develop their skill to level where they could participate in PC.
I know a lot of work has gone into PC. But I'm concerned that in is desire to provide consequence in the world of the Dust Mercenary, they've given us a consequence that a majority care little about, because the personal rewards are not tangible enough and the rewards for a corp are too ethereal.
I believe that in terms of engaging and keeping in the game new players and fresh blood, PC is ill conceived as a game mechanic and is more likely to turn them off.
Hopefully the new monthly point build cycle will bring us rapid progress on developing game modes other than the four we have in Pub matches, better rewards for Faction Warfare (gear as salvage that can only be gained in Faction Warfare and unavailable I the market place would be the first way to start) and as for PC....
Every fix so far has been broken by the players and the latest one before it even launched. It's off putting to new players and the latest iteration is going to do nothing to help prevent burnout of players. It's a game, not a second job.
The NPE, corp mechanics, balancing issues, murder taxis, Dropships becoming viable again... these are matters that should've been fixed already before PC was looked at.
I still love playing the game and I'll be here till the servers pack up but I'm just concerned that a priorities need to be realigned before further iteration on PC.
Work on PC is not done at the exclusion of the other things you mentioned. In fact these changes took less than a days work, we are otherwise very busy working on the upcoming releases.
Prioritization of work is more complicated than just what is most important to the players right now. We need to consider alignment with teams doing work on systems that may intersect with the design, resolving dependencies between teams and finding places we can have a big impact for a small amount of effort. PC changes now are just good timing in the interest of shaking things up a bit. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1835
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Posted - 2013.07.11 13:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Calroon DeVil wrote:All I can hear is "wahh wahh wahh, our job is so hard". Good for you. Other people also have complicated jobs and you don't see them explaining themself.
Get things in order, better and faster. No one wants to listen to excuses.
Not making excuses or complaining, just trying to explain why we made these changes to Kevall who has the impression we are doing this instead of the other things he mentioned. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1835
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Posted - 2013.07.11 21:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:If we want to make eve players care about Dust, we need to start being able to go after their stuff and make a lot more more ISK doing it.
FoxFour and myself have been getting into deep design discussion about the future of Planetary Conquest which we hinted at in the last developer blog. Splitting the ISK earning from clones and creating a demand in EVE for a new commodity is going to be key to getting EVE players to care about what happens in PC. The CPM and CSM have also been speaking together about this very topic and we have some, lets say interesting, plans to make PC a little more open and "sandbox like" as well as unique from instant battles.
For now though, we will be watching to see if these changes are enjoyed by those corps who want to put in the effort required to play in the deep end of the pool. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1864
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Posted - 2013.07.14 14:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:If you loose the 5 minute reup attack are the attackers supposed to be able to keep the 1 hour attack dibs?
If so when does this 1 hour attack dibs begin? when we enter the MCC on the reupped attack?
Currently we are having issues on issuing the 3rd attack after loosing the bonus round.
No your reattack was the second attack. You need to win the second battle as well to earn a 3rd reattack. |
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