there is no reason why splash damage is almost full impact damage, that's just bad, should be around 50%, 60% tops. Also, RoF could be lowered a bit, I hate being killed by 2 Flaylock rounds because I couldn't react to the second shot after the first hit near me. But since CCP is reworking the entire hit detection system, let's wait until the the system is in the game and then revisit the issue.

Splash damage isn't almost full impact damage

Splash damage isn't almost full impact damage

Maybe it needs 1 thread where everyone has already talked about it over and over again.

Just cut the ammo capacity in half and adjust the fitting costs. It could cut down on the core spam, which is what everyone is crying about.

there is no reason why splash damage is almost full impact damage, that's just bad, should be around 50%, 60% tops. Also, RoF could be lowered a bit, I hate being killed by 2 Flaylock rounds because I couldn't react to the second shot after the first hit near me. But since CCP is reworking the entire hit detection system, let's wait until the the system is in the game and then revisit the issue.

same thing happens to every weapon used by the best players in the game, the assaulters cry "nerf" because they constantly get killed by one guy using this weapon while the other guy on the other side of the map completely suck with that weapon and can only get assists

You are right, the splash is way too close to the base, I think 40% fair though, in my own opinion though. Mind if I ask where you got that info about CCP and hit detection?

As I'm sure many of you have noticed that quite a few people aren't too happy with the Flaylock, but I don't think there are really sure as to why. Here is what we know, the Flaylock is a burst damage weapon with AoE abilities, low clip size, reasonable reload speed, low spare ammo, bullet travel time and bullet falloff, now on paper that sounds like a pretty well balanced weapon.

Here ...
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1028825#post1028825

Every gun has proficiency, its not the issue at all. Its the fact that core flaylock has 2.5x the blast radius as the std version.

Name me another gun that is 2.5x as effective between std to proto? None...

Normalize splash radius to 1.5m.
Decrease splash damage by 40%
Change FP Op to increase splash damage by 5% per level.

yay balance.

You can basically stop with "burst damage weapon with AoE abilities." The burst is sufficient to kill many people in 2 shots, nevermind 3, or the fact that its a sidearm and you can carry another weapon or a second flaylock. You could give it a 30 second reload if you wanted, it wouldn't matter that much.

The flaylock should have the same reload style as the plasma cannon and reduce the clip size to one as well its a missle shooting pistol I think that might give it more balance.

On the core flaylock it's pretty damn close. Both over 200 I believe.

The flaylock should have the same reload style as the plasma cannon and reduce the clip size to one as well its a missle shooting pistol I think that might give it more balance.

Yeah lets nerf another weapon into oblivion so this game truly can be assaultrifle514 which it pretty much already is.

As I'm sure many of you have noticed that quite a few people aren't too happy with the Flaylock, but I don't think there are really sure as to why. Here is what we know, the Flaylock is a burst damage weapon with AoE abilities, low clip size, reasonable reload speed, low spare ammo, bullet travel time and bullet falloff, now on paper that sounds like a pretty well balanced weapon.

But if you look pass the gun and look at the finer details of the game we can see the real balance issue, the skill tree. The slandered FL has a base damage of 218 and a splash of 195, with a radius of 1m and a reload of 2.5, now it's proto version has Dam of 239.8 and a splash of 214.5, a radius of 2m with the same reload speed as before, in my opinion, this is one of the only proto guns that is actually worth paying for. So, now that's out of the way, the problem comes from the skill that affects the FL's damage, FL proficiency.
Now their is our culprit, at level 5 it gives the FL a 15% buff to damage, which looks like 250.7 base and 224.25 splash for the slandered, while the proto looks like 275.7 and a splash of 246.6, now if we add two Complex mods and the 20% bonus from armor damage, and well it just becomes a nightmare. But the worst part of all this is, that the FL doesn't have any real drawbacks for using it, only inconveniences, I'm not sure how, but I do know FL needs weakness other than range, which is the common problem for most weapons, putting the FL "ahead of the game".

So, lets brainstorm on ideas on how to balance the FL, maybe it needs a CPU/PG requirement, maybe it needs a slower rate of fire, or maybe it needs more bullet travel time, let's figure something out?

Nerf the splash damage down to 70-80dmg (it's a sidearm not a go to gun, also the gun should not be superior to it's primary relative The Mass Driver) ROF is too fast maybe slow it down 75% or at least 60%. Put it up there with other sidearms as far as CPU/PG req. make it shoot once than reload after each shot. A combo of a few of these or all of them would work.

Nerf the splash damage down to 70-80dmg (it's a sidearm not a go to gun, also the gun should not be superior to it's primary relative The Mass Driver) ROF is too fast maybe slow it down 75% or at least 60%. Put it up there with other sidearms as far as CPU/PG req. make it shoot once than reload after each shot. A combo of a few of these or all of them would work.

Nerf the splash damage down to 70-80dmg (it's a sidearm not a go to gun, also the gun should not be superior to it's primary relative The Mass Driver) ROF is too fast maybe slow it down 75% or at least 60%. Put it up there with other sidearms as far as CPU/PG req. make it shoot once than reload after each shot. A combo of a few of these or all of them would work.

I'm sorry, I explained it wrong, the proficiency isn't the problem, it's how damage stacking works with the FL so well that's the problem, proficiency is only a part of it, the FL's damage is just too good for the amount of damage without damage buffs from mods/skills. Changing OP into splash damage sound like a pretty cool idea, but I'm not too on the reduced radius though, and by that, I mean how much of an impact it would have on the effectiveness of the FL it would have, the last thing I would like to see is, it not being effective in it area of expertise.

the increasing splash is EXACTLY the reason we are here now.

Either an 80% reduction in splash damage, or a mild reduction in splash radius will be necessary to bring this down from god status.

I vote for rewarding player skill myself.

You always here the same things over and over with this gun.

std sucks balls, adv is pretty balanced, and pro is lolz.

what changes between the tiers?

oh yeah.. splash radius.

You shouldn't be specing all out into Sidearms.

You should really at least look at the stats before making random statements that are wrong

I'm tired if seeing the same threads 10 times a day :/

Shield up!!!

Comon', now you're surely joking!

Removing 80% of splash damage on a gun that makes it very hard to get direct hits is RIDICULOUS!!

Direct DPS is 239.8
Splash is 214.5

Hmm....let me guess..you use a flaylock and are going around taking issue with nerfing it to hell because you rely on it.
Please don't be a **** and challenge my assertions solely because you're worried CCP will nerf your crutch.

people, if we cannot agree to what a decent nerf should be we need something that hasn't been brought up before.

I suggest the flaylocks have a 2 second delay before they blow up. this way they have to be used in certain situations and not just be the be all end all to sidearms.

This will prevent people from spamming it when you run up on them in 1v1, this will make them actually use a main weapon instead of using dual flaylocks.

I have spoken.

Says who? If you're willing to deal with the trade offs, why shouldn't you be allowed to only spec into sidearms? You get lesser range, smaller clip size, smaller total ammo, bullet travel time, arcs, etc...every sidearm has disadvantages.

In EVE nothing's stopping me from fitting cruise sized guns on my BS if I want to, it adds flexibility and variety to the game. In fact, one of my favorite setup is a BS with cruiser blasters (dual repper/injector domi of doom). There too I accept certain disadvantages in return for doing that.

Actually R'adeh, its direct damage or spalsh damage, not both. That's twice you've been wrong...

Maybe its you who should check your info

SIDEARMS should not be reliable killing weapons. They wouldn't be SIDEARMS they would be PRIMARY. You are using a SIDEARM as a PRIMARY! Should not be that effective to pull that off. Sidearm is supposed to be last resort. Primary bullets run out you use. Flaylock has more than enough to outshine most if not ALL primary weapons. It needs to be broke, the people that depend on it.. GET GOOD.

Says who? If you're willing to deal with the trade offs, why shouldn't you be allowed to only spec into sidearms? You get lesser range, smaller clip size, smaller total ammo, bullet travel time, arcs, etc...every sidearm has disadvantages.

In EVE nothing's stopping me from fitting cruise sized guns on my BS if I want to, it adds flexibility and variety to the game. In fact, one of my favorite setup is a BS with cruiser blasters (dual repper/injector domi of doom). There too I accept certain disadvantages in return for doing that.

And just so we're all clear. If you got what you wanted by limiting Logis to sidearms, guess what the majority of us would be using.

SIDEARMS should not be reliable killing weapons. They wouldn't be SIDEARMS they would be PRIMARY. You are using a SIDEARM as a PRIMARY! Should not be that effective to pull that off. Sidearm is supposed to be last resort. Primary bullets run out you use. Flaylock has more than enough to outshine most if not ALL primary weapons. It needs to be broke, the people that depend on it.. GET GOOD.

Right...so if you're right, OHKs are impossible with the flaylock

Actually R'adeh, its direct damage or spalsh damage, not both. That's twice you've been wrong...

Maybe its you who should check your info

Well from what I've gathered, the best solution I've found from other peoples feedback is to make it slower and reduce it's splash damage. But I'm not sure if that would fix the "be all, end all" sidearm problem.

Std flux grenade, there's my argument.

With 2 complex damage mods??

He is right, you only get one or the other, not both.

Right...so if you're right, OHKs are impossible with the flaylock

Argument for what?

When I ran flaylocks I never fitted any damage mods...still got OHKs against scouts and badly fit non-proto suits if I got a direct hit. That wouldn't have been possible if the max damage for a direct hit is a mere 240. In short, the guy saying the difference between direct hit and splash is only around 20 dps is simply wrong

By the way, I now mostly run proto scrambler pistols...if you can aim, they're just as deadly...and more effective at range because shots connect quicker. Proto SMGs are godly too.

Again, if he's right, ppl couldn't complain about OHK given the max damage output is a mere 240 per shot.

You are aware that a FL can shoot all three shots before you even know where there coming from, right?
It's not that hard, which is the main problem with the FL, they don't magically kill things with one shot, if you shoot any advance suit(other than a Light Suit) with a FL, they will not go down in one shot, the FL can shoot three shots that can do over 200 damage, that's what kills people, this is with out damage mods or skills being applied.

The reality of the flaylock issue is we are all playing dust but want the call of duty experience. Ccp is trying to create a universe where anything goes. And they are successful in doing that. But the op'ness of the flaylock is contrary to the base demogeaphic prefference which should be the core of the experience. Glory to the rifle!

At which point he has to reload and is out of the game for a bit...during which time most opponents can continue to fire at the flaylocker. Not only that, you can't balance a proto weapon against advanced or light suits.

That's exactly the thing...they mostly complain about a PROTO weapon's damage output against mostly non-proto suits. They also don't compare the stats against other proto sidearms.

I was an SMG knifer before the respec, both proto, both godly against pretty much everything non proto. They're both still good against proto suits and don't really feel underpowered. After the respec, I did the same for the flaylock and scrambler pistol. Once you get the hang of aiming and realise the SP is more effective at range, you realise that the proto SP is just as deadly as the proto flaylock.

You just see more people speccing into proto flaylocks because it's a new gun and it's getting a lot of hype. If they nerf it like they did to the MD, ppl will switch to the SP or SMG....both of which will then be called OP at proto level. And the cycle continues i

To those saying "oh, but what about those running dual flaylocks"...well...have you tried dual proto SMGs? The amount of shots you have (and at close range you don't even need to aim well) is amazing. Same goes for dual SPs, the damage output is outright scary. But in all those cases you sacrifice range or suffer from other drawbacks, sometimes multiple drawbacks.

If I go from standard AR to proto AR, my gun is like 10-15% better. If I go from standard forge to proto forge, my gun is like 20% better. If I go from standard scrambler to proto scrambler my gun is 10-15% better.

If I go from standard flaylock to proto flaylock my gun is like 200% better.

Hmmmm.

I agree with you, we shouldn't nerf weapons just because we don't like them/latest trend, as you said, all weapons in the game have some sort of balancing point that limits it to considerable degree, but the only one that doesn't is the FL.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1014022#post1014022

Ill just leave this here.. to verify who is right.

But it has! Clip size, range, arc, bullet travel time...those are all downsides.

Also, ppl mostly seem to have an issue with the core flaylock only...which is because it's a PROTO gun, it's supposed to slaughter non-proto gear. It doesn't do that to proto suits that are properly fit.

But it has! Clip size, range, arc, bullet travel time...those are all downsides.

Also, ppl mostly seem to have an issue with the core flaylock only...which is because it's a PROTO gun, it's supposed to slaughter non-proto gear. It doesn't do that to proto suits that are properly fit.

Just remove this cheesy ass weapon

Whatever... 3 shots with prof 3 and 2 complex sidearm mods is still 600-700 damage. A cal logi can barely withstand that, until they swap guns or toss a fused locus nade.

Not even shield tankers can do anything against a skilled player using 1-2 FPs.

If you can't kill anyone in less than 2s at 20m with a core flaylock its because you lack skill.

Whatever... 3 shots with prof 3 and 2 complex sidearm mods is still 600-700 damage. A cal logi can barely withstand that, until they swap guns or toss a fused locus nade.

Not even shield tankers can do anything against a skilled player using 1-2 FPs.

If you can't kill anyone in less than 2s at 20m with a core flaylock its because you lack skill.

At 167 damage to shields, 3 DIRECT HITS would deal 751.5 if using mods and with proficiency 5. So yeah, you could kill almost anyone with 3 shots... if they all land... and they don't see you first since you just sacrificed survivability so you could 3 shot proto suits.

We call them glass cannons, it's a form of min-maxing, not necessarily OP, since it does have counters

A player would be a glass cannon if he were running a light suit, but but the people using proto FLs aren't , these cannons are made of sterner stuff.

how about make the splash damage extend to the edge of the blast radius and it gets weaker the longer the shock wave travels. im sure that would make total sence and fix any blast radius and splash damage issues

In this meta, anyone who isn't using their max possible HP (well, just shields, lol armor) is running a glass fit, and AR will kill you in less than 2 seconds if you're not good at strafing.

Honestly, people exaggerate the TTKs in this game, though that's mostly;y poor aim and bad hit detection.

Scouts aren't glass, they're sugar

Funny to see the whiny EoN guys still coming up with asinine ideas like "just remove the weapon".

Now, I do think it could use some changes

-Lower RoF, it's way too easy to spam these things
-Increase reload time
-Lower Splash damage 15-20%
-Increase direct hits by 10-15%, they aren't rewarding enough ATM
- Flatten their Splash radius...es? 1.25 for STD, 1.50 for ADV, 1.75 for PRO

These changes I think would keep it viable as a finisher after you've taken out your opponents shields, and it would make it harder to spam them and therefore people wouldn't be as inclined to use them as main weapons... let alone carry two of them (Which I still think is stupid)

Funny to see the whiny EoN guys still coming up with asinine ideas like "just remove the weapon".

Funny to see TUL guy posting 12 times to try and prove that the flaylock is balance.I think you watch to many Pyrex videos Buddy...

Funny to see the whiny EoN guys still coming up with asinine ideas like "just remove the weapon".

If you look at the damage it can do relative to a player's armor or shield, then you can pretty much two-shot anything shy of a heavy.

With 400+ shield and 150 armor, I've even been one-shotted by a flaylock. I've also been killed by a flux grenade, so go figure.

The "noob tube" mass driver is bad enough... but now everyone seems to be running with flaylocks, just like everyone was running TACs before their nerf.

At this point, I would be happy with one of the two following fixes:

1 - Fix for flaylocks
2 - Fix for murder-taxis.

A fix for both would be awesome, too.

Funny to see TUL guy posting 12 times to try and prove that the flaylock is balance.I think you watch to many Pyrex videos Buddy...

If you look at the damage it can do relative to a player's armor or shield, then you can pretty much two-shot anything shy of a heavy.