cost effort would be too high to use place holders

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

Poor Heavies, you definately should get some assistance from CCP.

Side Note: have you tried the commando suit and if so how is it?

I'm using the Advanced Commando Suit and love it despite some stupidities with the pricing and racial bonus. Though I don't really consider myself a heavy.

Any comments on good weapon combonations?

Any comments on good weapon combonations?

I'm using the Advanced Commando Suit and love it despite some stupidities with the pricing and racial bonus. Though I don't really consider myself a heavy.

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

You really should not trust anything Iron Wolf says.

I want to agree

But he IS a cpm - who else can we trust?

Fire this ******* guy and prove him wrong or prove him right and watch me quit this piece of **** game.

Always thought it was balance to why we never got racial suits - shield tanks would be hard as hell to kill - but nope - CCP just doesn't want to work on it to save cash to fix what they broke on uprising.

GG

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

You guys have lots of health and super Gatling gun with a Kamehameha gun. How are you not loved?!?

You guys have lots of health and super Gatling gun with a Kamehameha gun. How are you not loved?!?

slow+short range=picked off from afar

not to mention all the easy counters to armor + armor plates being trash.

There's a reason we're crying for B-type suits back.

Do you even Dust bro?

Probably not anymore.

And are you really saying armor tanking infantry is viable? LOL

SoTa_PoP: Ironwolf: I just told you I like hay and corn.

And btw, go ahead and continue to sell your fantasy CCP hates heavies, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

I was thinking that the code to load the given models/textures would be put in the game, but everywhere it asks for the model/texture... load the exact same pre-existing suit. No extra work, just the code that will be there later, with the commands pointing to the pre-existing file.

I think a little same-ness in heavy/light appearance is fine in the service of earlier access to skills.

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

Question. Is he not just saying that investing in place holders would take the same resources that are working on actual content that won't have to be redone?

As for why heavies and scouts are currently suffering... it seems like a self-reinforcing problem. There aren't enough of us to focus that much dev effort on them right now and hence they get used less.

The only thing they would need to re-do would be the models... *Snip and replace*

Maybe they are still focused on game mechanics?

blah blah blah.....
As for placeholders, when recolored by their specializations and supposive race they're belonging too you're going to wind up with a bunch of guys looking the same on the battlefield and decisions you're making is getting you killed because you thought you saw the wrong shade of blue or green on a gallente sentinel and threw a flux grenade expecting a caldari heavy instead of something more appropriate and the time you just wasted got you killed in that engagement.

Blah blah.....

Poor Heavies, you definately should get some assistance from CCP.

Side Note: have you tried the commando suit and if so how is it?

As a stark reminder, Heavies are not the only people playing this game. There are so many other things to address for every play style of the game just about that just because one class doesn't have any love doesn't really mean it's underpowered or overpowered or not on the minds of the developer for adjustments.

Dust 514 studio is not that large and time spend doing things purposely wrong the first time around is not an efficient use of staff and CCP would rather spend the resources right giving you guys the racial heavies instead 3 new suits that are amarr heavies. After all we seen how CCP has some difficulties pipelining removal of items in the past, no need to get plagued by more script accidents.

As for placeholders, when recolored by their specializations and supposive race they're belonging too you're going to wind up with a bunch of guys looking the same on the battlefield and decisions you're making is getting you killed because you thought you saw the wrong shade of blue or green on a gallente sentinel and threw a flux grenade expecting a caldari heavy instead of something more appropriate and the time you just wasted got you killed in that engagement.

All and all, CPM had pushed for it (months ago) CCP basically said 'No, we rather to it right.' and left it at that while other things got focused on.

Now it may be disheartening to see that there is no mention of new gear suits equipment or vehicles on the 6 month roadmap but CCP Wolfman basically said that new content hasn't been paused for the roadmap so the chances of seeing new things is definitely there when they're ready and it can be anything from new guns to new suits including the missing racials. Afterall things like these can fall under balancing, which itself on the roadmap itself.

And btw, go ahead and continue to sell your fantasy CCP hates heavies, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

ok then why is it all the other classes got scramblers and flaylocks and shield energizers and all different variants and we got .... the commando ... oh and ... yea looking for it ... hold on ... yea nothing

Explains why other classes have racial variants to chose from...

'no we'd rather do it right"

....

in 2-3 years? Come on CCP... if the option is colored variants or waiting 2-3 years for racial heavies... I think we'd all agree we'll take looking at the wrong shade of green for a while.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Like any one looks at suit colors and says hmmm I should run to the supply depot and change my suit cause this guys color tells me I need a flux grenade. Derp.

No you shoot the dude with what ever your carrying.

Seriously hope you don't offer advice like that?

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

and heres and ideal ... gallente heavys = blue ok minmatar = purple = caldiri = white how hard is that im pretty sure I can go into freaking paint and figure something out . I mean im a novice with the ue3 engine and autodesk maya but damn you guyz have how many devs how many scripters

Traditionally
Gallente Green
Caldari Blue
Minmatar Red
Amarr Gold/Yellow

Sentinels are Olive Green, Commandos are Maroon Red, and Prototypes are black.

The when combined under environmental light the shades can be close enough to be confusing. They're going have to go the more obnoxious spectrum of the color pallet in order to get the visual advertisment going.

Traditionally
Gallente Green
Caldari Blue
Minmatar Red
Amarr Gold/Yellow

Sentinels are Olive Green, Commandos are Maroon Red, and Prototypes are black.

The when combined under environmental light the shades can be close enough to be confusing. They're going have to go the more obnoxious spectrum of the color pallet in order to get the visual advertisment going.

Overall doing placeholders would be like painting siding on a house before going in and replacing the siding with bricks.

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

Overall doing placeholders would be like painting and repairing siding on a house before tearing it down and going in and replacing the siding with bricks.

It's more work for what it is not worth. Should have done the bricks thing in the first place.

Overall doing placeholders would be like painting and repairing siding on a house before tearing it down and going in and replacing the siding with bricks.

It's more work for what it is not worth. Should have done the bricks thing in the first place.

So CCP messed up, but instead of fixing it, or even a temp fix, they just gonna ignore the matter till they ready to "place bricks"...gotcha.

glad i spent money on this game. Certainly seeing the value for my bucks

You've been here how long? And you expect basic content in this game?

Lmao, good one bro.

a brick is singular.
brick is plural

jus sayin

wut in the blue **** (see wut i did there?) do colors have to do with ANYTHING?????

thats got to b the flakiest cop-out BS excuse ive heard for retardation ive ever heard

and that comes with a big fat DERP!!!

give us our damn racial suits already

Less about colors more about shapes advertising what you are and what you are doing and what threats you are likely mostly going to provide. Color is typically the worst advertiser in Dust 514 and when you start throwing in adaptive colors (color that match the environment) or custom colors well the whole idea goes out the window of using recolors.

Also in better design you wouldn't just be a heavy player but a specific race's heavy, there are quite a few assaults who only identify themselves as one race just right now you guys are lacking some choices however, and despite if given a second option you guys would still be undervalued for having a crappy HMG, being slow as molasses, and not enough utilization of what extremely few slots you guys get to be topped off with an entirely effing useless skill for a weapon that doesn't exist yet. I rather get these fixed and addressed. So when they finally do add a second, third or fourth option you won't be sitting there antagonizing as to why all four races heavies are gawd awful and making you wonder why you even picked heavy anything in the first place.

Things for the heavies needs to improve in a very balanced manner on all fronts.

Content is what keeps a game fresh. No wonder heavies are so few in numbers these days. Who's gonna stick with a game that gives you nothing but talk and punishes you for choosing a class that's a minority.

Less about colors more about shapes advertising what you are and what you are doing and what threats you are likely mostly going to provide. Color is typically the worst advertiser in Dust 514 and when you start throwing in adaptive colors (color that match the environment) or custom colors well the whole idea goes out the window of using recolors.

Also in better design you wouldn't just be a heavy player but a specific race's heavy, there are quite a few assaults who only identify themselves as one race just right now you guys are lacking some choices however, and despite if given a second option you guys would still be undervalued for having a crappy HMG, being slow as molasses, and not enough utilization of what extremely few slots you guys get to be topped off with an entirely effing useless skill for a weapon that doesn't exist yet. I rather get these fixed and addressed. So when they finally do add a second, third or fourth option you won't be sitting there antagonizing as to why all four races heavies are gawd awful and making you wonder why you even picked heavy anything in the first place.

Things for the heavies needs to improve in a very balanced manner on all fronts.

Brick as plural only counts when Brick is being refered to as a building material.
as plural Bricks could be used.

i like the enthusiasm, but unfortunately, some of us here won't be around for that miraculous day heavies get anything significant. Paying customers don't stick with an inferior product.

Regardless of how much potential this game has, people not going to wait 3-5 years to see a glimmer of that potential. PS4 out in a couple of months, but before that GTA5.

A huge amount of people stopped playing for TLoU... imagine the migration for GTA 5 and eventually the PS4. There's no incentive for people to stick with DUST. For more promises and pipe dreams?

No offense to CCP and its staff, i know they're working hard, but the big boys over at CCP should have hired better people to deal with the core FPS mechanics of the game, cuz at the moment that's what holding back content.

Content is what keeps a game fresh. No wonder heavies are so few in numbers these days. Who's gonna stick with a game that gives you nothing but talk and punishes you for choosing a class that's a minority.

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

i dont think CCP has yet understood that console players are NOT pc players..........

I think the idea with placeholders was to put in the skill framework using the current suit. People talked about coloring them this way or that, and that sort of thing IS extra work. It's coming up with some sort of scheme to set apart heavies as different races before the suits all exist. That's bad. That is a waste of time.

I was thinking that the code to load the given models/textures would be put in the game, but everywhere it asks for the model/texture... load the exact same pre-existing suit. No extra work, just the code that will be there later, with the commands pointing to the pre-existing file.

I think a little same-ness in heavy/light appearance is fine in the service of earlier access to skills.

From what I'm told on IRC - Us being upset about what's been said in my OP makes us 'entitled' and 'spoiled'

They want to concentrate on fixing what they broke in uprising and don't have the money or time to deal with us fatties.

Smh.

Fatties could skill into other things if they have the excess SP probalbly best if they choose someting that will help them transverse the battlefield quicker LAV, or DS'es(needs armor/shield hardeners to actually survive longer than 1 second in the air)

From what I'm told on IRC - Us being upset about what's been said in my OP makes us 'entitled' and 'spoiled'

They want to concentrate on fixing what they broke in uprising and don't have the money or time to deal with us fatties.

Smh.

From what I'm told on IRC - Us being upset about what's been said in my OP makes us 'entitled' and 'spoiled'

They want to concentrate on fixing what they broke in uprising and don't have the money or time to deal with us fatties.

Smh.

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

Anyone that uses Light frame suits could make the same argument, really.

Anyone that uses Light frame suits could make the same argument, really.

Guys - they want to fix the core elements first before adding in new suits!

Balance > content

Which makes absolute sense - if it didn't mean we're stuck as amarr for another half year with FP/MD/Nade spam everywhere making armor tanking as useless as the armor mods.

Wouldn't having more heavy suits and heavy weapons make balancing even easier? More heavy suits/weapons = heavies being balanced amongst their class vs being scaled down to the standards of smaller frames.

at least they have a choice between the 2

They don't agree and flat out call me stupid.

and both choices are considered bad atm which is probably the other point I am trying to drive home.

I mean what if they got all four races dropships in and fixed nothing else? Heavies are in a very similar position.

I'm having trouble grasping the point of the CPM, honestly. CCP doesn't even know what goes out in their own patches, why exactly do we need a middle group to speak for us when we don't really even have much of a say over what they speak about?

O.o

I'm having trouble grasping the point of the CPM, honestly. CCP doesn't even know what goes out in their own patches, why exactly do we need a middle group to speak for us when we don't really even have much of a say over what they speak about?

O.o

Even if our variants are bad - at least we'd have a choice... and a choice between shield tanking and armor tanking would be great... and honestly - fair.

Actually we told SoTa to go to bed since he was drunk.

Not really I hardly notice the difference when forge gunning an armor drop ship or a shield dropship.

Not really I hardly notice the difference when forge gunning an armor drop ship or a shield dropship.

OMFG..........IWS just QUIT already. You are so f***ing irrelevant it actually makes me physically ill everytime you type/speak. You aren't a presence ingame, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to just about ANYTHING, and what little "Information" you provide is often misinformation & regurgitated misdirection. You are CCPs f***ing lap dog..... Whatever BS PR Spindig they fecal toss your way you immediately gobble it down & drool out the leftovers for the "Community".

From a Tactical Standpoint you often only see the Size/Shape of the Avatar before an Engagement. You then decide to Shoot or Run based upon the presented Scenario. The Color of the Suit & details of the "Skin" are often the last thing on your mind in a heated firefight, you simply Fight or Flight. And if you had enough time to stare at the Nipple Rings or Crotch Curvature of a Dropsuit for "Tactical Purposes" then you probably had enough time to ADS & read the Analysis/Scan of the ACTUAL DATA, which is far more informative as it contains all of the Data you need at a glance (& is extremely simple to add in).

Placeholders are hardly expensive.... You slap a Color (Or don't, who cares) on a Dural Suit & give it Stats & Slots, a Name, & an Skill Node to sink SP into & viola, new f***ing Dropsuits. Modeling is not needed so the Art Department can take their sweet ass time playing Dress-up or making New Models for New Content (MTAC, Jet, etc) & then play the Crayola Game w/ the Skins afterwards. I mean....are you seriously this dunce & blind of a Fanboy Pet that you defend this POS excuse??? I take it as yes....you are.

Placeholders allow for there to be room to breathe while the Community enjoys Critiquing & Metagaming the **** out of their new toys. Stat Balancing can be done @ a proper pace w/ more Community Involvement as we will have gained experience with the Synergies berween the Variants, thus allowing better informed Balancing Discussions at an accelerated pace. What we have now is a Logistical mess with no Balance while slow trickles of New Suits are thrown into the mix. Commando Suit, Pilot Suit, Weapons, hell even Modules & Equipment that are NEW are being introduced.....yet the Core Variants are left on the backburner.

This now excessively elongates the Balancing Duration & forces a significant chunk of the already burnt-out Community to remain Spec'd into something that is so far off of their chosen Career Path only to retain relevance on the Battlefield. Anyone who hoardes SP for 3 Years, remaining at the bottom of the "Food Chain" & being barred from Competitive Play, still clinging onto "Hope" as they live to be PUBstomped while eagerly awaiting their desired Fitting to be made.....is a Masochistic Blind Fanboy Freerunner. So not only do these ignoramus not contribute to the Developers/Producers/Directors/Etc. (& if they do...they are further gone mentally for Paying to Wait). they also attemp to derail Valuable Discussions by claiming those who don't follow their Mantra of what they call "Patience" to be deserving of wasting their SP.

So not only will introducing Placeholders, promptly followed by a Respec, be significantly more Cost Effective in the long run.....it also frees up Developmental Effort/Time that may further focus on Core & Balancing, allows a feeling of Near-Completion/Variety which boosts Community Morale & Player Retension, prevents a feeling of immediate need for Respec & Reinbursement in the future, & generally enables more valuable Well-Informed Discussions now rather than "SoonGäó". But what the hell do I know.....I haven't had my nasal cavity so far up the rectal orifice that I can smell last week's dinner :P

Not really I hardly notice the difference when forge gunning an armor drop ship or a shield dropship.

OMFG..........IWS just QUIT already. You are so f***ing irrelevant it actually makes me physically ill everytime you type/speak. You aren't a presence ingame, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to just about ANYTHING, and what little "Information" you provide is often misinformation & regurgitated misdirection. You are CCPs f***ing lap dog..... Whatever BS PR Spindig they fecal toss your way you immediately gobble it down & drool out the leftovers for the "Community".

From a Tactical Standpoint you often only see the Size/Shape of the Avatar before an Engagement. You then decide to Shoot or Run based upon the presented Scenario. The Color of the Suit & details of the "Skin" are often the last thing on your mind in a heated firefight, you simply Fight or Flight. And if you had enough time to stare at the Nipple Rings or Crotch Curvature of a Dropsuit for "Tactical Purposes" then you probably had enough time to ADS & read the Analysis/Scan of the ACTUAL DATA, which is far more informative as it contains all of the Data you need at a glance (& is extremely simple to add in).

Placeholders are hardly expensive.... You slap a Color (Or don't, who cares) on a Dural Suit & give it Stats & Slots, a Name, & an Skill Node to sink SP into & viola, new f***ing Dropsuits. Modeling is not needed so the Art Department can take their sweet ass time playing Dress-up or making New Models for New Content (MTAC, Jet, etc) & then play the Crayola Game w/ the Skins afterwards. I mean....are you seriously this dunce & blind of a Fanboy Pet that you defend this POS excuse??? I take it as yes....you are.

Placeholders allow for there to be room to breathe while the Community enjoys Critiquing & Metagaming the **** out of their new toys. Stat Balancing can be done @ a proper pace w/ more Community Involvement as we will have gained experience with the Synergies berween the Variants, thus allowing better informed Balancing Discussions at an accelerated pace. What we have now is a Logistical mess with no Balance while slow trickles of New Suits are thrown into the mix. Commando Suit, Pilot Suit, Weapons, hell even Modules & Equipment that are NEW are being introduced.....yet the Core Variants are left on the backburner.

This now excessively elongates the Balancing Duration & forces a significant chunk of the already burnt-out Community to remain Spec'd into something that is so far off of their chosen Career Path only to retain relevance on the Battlefield. Anyone who hoardes SP for 3 Years, remaining at the bottom of the "Food Chain" & being barred from Competitive Play, still clinging onto "Hope" as they live to be PUBstomped while eagerly awaiting their desired Fitting to be made.....is a Masochistic Blind Fanboy Freerunner. So not only do these ignoramus not contribute to the Developers/Producers/Directors/Etc. (& if they do...they are further gone mentally for Paying to Wait). they also attemp to derail Valuable Discussions by claiming those who don't follow their Mantra of what they call "Patience" to be deserving of wasting their SP.

So not only will introducing Placeholders, promptly followed by a Respec, be significantly more Cost Effective in the long run.....it also frees up Developmental Effort/Time that may further focus on Core & Balancing, allows a feeling of Near-Completion/Variety which boosts Community Morale & Player Retension, prevents a feeling of immediate need for Respec & Reinbursement in the future, & generally enables more valuable Well-Informed Discussions now rather than "SoonGäó". But what the hell do I know.....I haven't had my nasal cavity so far up the rectal orifice that I can smell last week's dinner :P

Are... you comparing killing a DS to giving heavies a shield variant? >_>

To be fair, we don't have an armor OR shield variant, we have a hybrid that you can tip in one direction or the other (unless you went sentinel lmfao).

I shield tank my heavy and it's pretty nasty.

Yeah I wished they would swap sentinel and commando suit bonuses they seem to fit each other a hell lot better.

Yeah I wished they would swap sentinel and commando suit bonuses they seem to fit each other a hell lot better.

Quick Question about shield tanking a heavy do you use a extender and energizer or just two extenders?

Yeah I wished they would swap sentinel and commando suit bonuses they seem to fit each other a hell lot better.

I propose we give commando's to the medium frames, and just bump them ol' logis up to heavies. It fits the single heavy philosophy, because we only have to have one variant: the caldari. BOOM. Now logi's are fixed, commandos are where they belong, and all is well in no one gives a ****'s ville.

Sarcasm aside, I wish they would scrap basically all the bonuses they have and completely rethink them, nothing feels valuable or unique enough to actually care in most cases.

From IronWolfSaber on IRC:

GG Heavies - we cost too much for them to care about.

I see the Commandos as specialty soldiers able to adapt to the situations in the battlefield

minnesota?

I see Commandos as something that look better on paper than they do in practice, and currently serve no more useful role than mobile AV specialists. (actually, they honestly can't even do that, because who AVs without AV grenades? O.o) The Commando is an SP sink hole through and through :/ ) They'd make halfway descent redline snipers at least.

You're welcome to test it out on the battlefield, my basic Heavy frame vs your Commando. I'll bring my AR, you bring...whatever. Bring friends. I probably won't, but the more the merrier

Hmmm... give me a little bit of time...

it cost ccp 1 million dollars per placeholder which they have to pay sony because Sony owns the system, btw the pilot placeholders are costing ccp alot because they are still there. so they are begging sony to remove them so they don't have to pay for them. well this is what goes off in my mind anyways and probably has some truth because PS2 has everything i as a vehicle user wanted and still have balance. Sony will smite everyone! run for the hills. to bad PS2 is only on PC because mines not that great but hey it only cost 400$.

So let me get this straight:

CPM Tried to get place-holders - got told to eff off - so stopped bringing it up? Regardless of CCP's position it should be hammered the importance of those place holders. You fail as our reps when you give into CCP's fail-logic of "Too much work and money."

I have an idea - take away all the suits variants and put them in the same boat as heavy and watch them be humbled by "Sorry too cost effective" and "Sorry - we don't think it would balance current game."

I'm sure people will just throw money left and right at CCP over it.

Like I said if I had to pick between fighting for placeholders or fighting for new suits I rather fight for getting new heavy suits out. Because CCP cannot stomp on that at all because it is on their to do list. Where as placeholders have been stomped down on and I am not willing to refight that. Now if CCP said like we're getting racial MMCs out before racial heavies I would certainly throw a tantrum then as MCCs are not gameplay objects yet.

I'd just like to be clear that I don't want placeholders.

I want the suits.

And if CCP aims to make me wait another half a year to get them, then they best DAMN make sure they refund the racial SP for Heavy and Scout suits when their racial variants are released.

I'd just like to be clear that I don't want placeholders.

I want the suits.

And if CCP aims to make me wait another half a year to get them, then they best DAMN make sure they refund the racial SP for Heavy and Scout suits when their racial variants are released.

Changing their colors is expensive? Bro, I could do it on Paint.

Item creation and then removal is probably more expensive.

Is it even confirmed that the only thing that holds heavies back is the art department?

To put placeholders into the game we first need them to be essentially finished in design apart from art and i haven't seen anything that suggests that.

Item creation and then removal is probably more expensive.

Are you High, Tired, or Drunk?

Item creation and then removal is probably more expensive.

are you talking about the art department making the models? because last time i checked, removal is free its creating them that cost money. placeholders shouldn't be all the costly since that is the simple part. oh BTW 50$ says the pilot models look just like the rest of the scout models and they are toying with vehicle users because all that is really needed is to code their bonuses in which i am betting is done already and has been. and no one in CPM or CCP uses vehicles to any real use other then to get from point A to point B then recall it never to be used again in that match so that is why its not getting pushed like it should.

are you talking about the art department making the models? because last time i checked, removal is free its creating them that cost money. placeholders shouldn't be all the costly since that is the simple part. oh BTW 50$ says the pilot models look just like the rest of the scout models and they are toying with vehicle users because all that is really needed is to code their bonuses in which i am betting is done already and has been. and no one in CPM or CCP uses vehicles to any real use other then to get from point A to point B then recall it never to be used again in that match so that is why its not getting pushed like it should.

I honestly don't see the point of placeholder suits without a full range of racial heavy weapons.

The idea of using placeholder weapon models has been tossed around before I believe

Heh, pretty ******* sad isnt it that stuff that would have only been acceptable as short term closed beta type fixes are being suggested by the playerbase as a good idea after the commercial release

This is the beta for Dust on PS4.

I hear you had a fun night last night?

As for verifying that comment, it is not something I work on so not something I talk about. :)