I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider.

In my honest opinion though,

More speed
More stealth

speeds is ok to me. especially once you get speed mods.

I just dont think CCP know what to do with the scout class in general - the changes since E3 have been dramatic for them. Are they supposed to be engaging in the battlefield or scouting? If the latter we have no maps/ gameplay for this class (unless it is coming).

I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider.

In my honest opinion though,

More speed
More stealth

Well CCP knows the scout has been underperforming lately and are scheduling it some love, how or what is beyond me atm but I am sure they're going to look into the class more and try to properly place it on the battlefield.

Dont know though if its base HP or holes in PG\CPU to allow for decent fitting.

[note rough numbers] Maybe make profile and radius have an impact on LOS identification too. . . This doesn't prevent people seeing other players but stops a red chevron from showing and position being relayed to squad/teammates. Special scoped weapons and zoomed ADS could add to LOS radius for long distance spotting.

What are your thoughts on the state of scouts as of 1.2?

The intended characteristic that's supposed to keep them alive simply doesn't. With the scout, its the lack of enough speed and stealth to compensate for the loss in EHP

I realized it was more efficient to just throw a speed mod on a assault suit and use that with the shotgun instead

There's just zero doubt in my mind that CCP understands that the Scout suit is in an unhealthy place right now

I've bookmarked the thread here and added it to my notes, and will definitely be drawing on these ideas during our future discussions with whomever picks up the Scout balance project.

I think there are two ways Scouts could work

Scout as Flanker/Attacker
-This is what most people play Scout as right now, and why not with one equipment slot, you cannot do very much support anyway, this Scout is adept at CQC combat whose primary means of getting around is based around stealth. This scout either needs more speed or a little bit more eHP to be more effective. They should be fragile, but not have them teleporting all over the place, at the same time, they should be fragile but not die in 3 bullets

Scout as Support
-The other variant of the Scout, this focuses on being a faster, squishier Logistics suit, they are mainly used to drop Uplinks quick and not be seen doing so. This differs from the Logistics class, which is more frontline support. This particular scout would need more CPU/PG as well as more equipment slots.

Now I don't know which Scout CCP has in mine when they say "Scouts" but that's what I think should happen with both. I would also like to have more module slots for all scouts as they can be more varied. I think both Scout types should be an option in this game, but that's just me

...
The most practical thing I think we should focus on is getting some resolution about this lingering visibility bug. The bottom line is that if our weapons can shoot that far, and the maps are going to be this large, disappearing character models are simple unacceptable however you slice it. I think that more than ever, with the implementation of falloff damage - this needs to be addressed as soon as possble. And frankly, it fits in perfectly with "core performance" issues anyways, as this affects other weapons as well (like my forge gun).
...

Some interesting news regarding why we seem to die so much when we sprint:
Apparently, our hitbox gets bigger the faster you move.

OP is still testing at the moment, but I am inclined to believe him, due to how much you get "caught" on objects when you are sprinting. Apparently, there are some spaces that you can walk through normally, but if you try to sprint, you will get stuck. Current estimate is that our hitbox is the same as a standing heavy while sprinting.

Just wanna know if CCP can confirm or deny this research.

Sounds plausible. When you say so, I think I have experienced the same thing, but thought it was the usual environment glitch that caught me. Most of all would it explain why I so often take damage (and die) just when I think I've got around a corner as a scout. I could swear I got past, but I still take some more damage. What a cheap way to reduce the lag issue!

I think there are two ways Scouts could work

Scout as Flanker/Attacker
-This is what most people play Scout as right now, and why not with one equipment slot, you cannot do very much support anyway, this Scout is adept at CQC combat whose primary means of getting around is based around stealth. This scout either needs more speed or a little bit more eHP to be more effective. They should be fragile, but not have them teleporting all over the place, at the same time, they should be fragile but not die in 3 bullets

Scout as Support
-The other variant of the Scout, this focuses on being a faster, squishier Logistics suit, they are mainly used to drop Uplinks quick and not be seen doing so. This differs from the Logistics class, which is more frontline support. This particular scout would need more CPU/PG as well as more equipment slots.

Now I don't know which Scout CCP has in mine when they say "Scouts" but that's what I think should happen with both. I would also like to have more module slots for all scouts as they can be more varied. I think both Scout types should be an option in this game, but that's just me

Some interesting news regarding why we seem to die so much when we sprint:
Apparently, our hitbox gets bigger the faster you move.

OP is still testing at the moment, but I am inclined to believe him, due to how much you get "caught" on objects when you are sprinting. Apparently, there are some spaces that you can walk through normally, but if you try to sprint, you will get stuck. Current estimate is that our hitbox is the same as a standing heavy while sprinting.

Just wanna know if CCP can confirm or deny this research.

I just talked with CCP Wolfman and he says there is currently the game

Are you missing a word here? I don't understand :\

Thank you for chasing this up for us. +1

Are you missing a word here? I don't understand :\

Thank you for chasing this up for us. +1

interesting.

IWS, would there be another explanation for the behavior we talk about?

For example, why can cipher walk through the opening between two boxes, but not sprint?

Yep. Due to lack of easy ways to measure distance on small scales, I got creative.

On the bridge map, there is a gap that I noticed you cannot sprint through, which I thought was odd, so I investigated. Turns out all suits can walk though, but none can sprint through. I know a thing or two about programming, and decided this indicated increasing player profile size with speed. Scout's size is bigger than the gap when sprinting, Heavies can still walk through.

OK guys- at the beginning of this thread I posted 7 bullet points that interested me as a scout, and what I thought would be beneficial to approach the CPM with. I read a lot of other scouts thoughts, talked to scouts in game, as well as what was considered in this thread.And, if i left anything out, please let me know!

I wanted to put together a short and sweet item list that affects us the most right now. Something easy to digest yet touches upon the bulk of the concerns I have seen. It also is partly biased based on my experiences, so while I want to make sure I put together something that represents everyone, I'd also like to preserve the spirit of keeping it easy to read and simple.

Hopefully, CPM can talk it over, and then take it to the Devs for consideration.


The state of the scout 1.2

Endurance/speed nerf
- regeneration delay if you deplete your stamina.
- actions possibly cost more stamina.
- there is a feeling of moving slower.
- all classes of suit strafe at the same speed.
- enemies can walk backwards at the same rate of speed.

Profile dampening/scanning
- scanning range is far too short. Especially for a gallente scout.
- passive scanning is unreliable and often does not work.
- it is unclear that profile dampening works. Especially at high skill levels. I.E. being seen on the minimap by
enemies/turrets/vehicles when out of LOS.

Scout Dropsuit hit box
-via limited testing it has been discovered our hit boxes increase in size when we sprint


Proto suits are underpowered
- lack of CPU/PG.
- lack of key additional H/L slot. 1H for G. 1L for Min.
- lack of a variant that includes an additional Eq slot.
- base movement/sprint speed is too low.

Weapons and hit detection
- nova knives have hit detection issues. A strafing enemy can become impossible to strike resulting in
positive feedback indicating a hit while inflicting zero damage.
- Nova knives need sprint charging.
- shotguns suffer from similar hit detection issues as the nova knife.
- shotgun reloading animation can not be canceled part way through a reload.

A few other incidental nerfs-
- RDVs now drop free LAVs off almost instantly further negating the scouts speed advantages by allowing them to run to
objectives first
- Overall frame rate has improved, and combined with ballooning hit boxes and speed nerf, has made scouts into the
collateral damage of advancing the core.

Per Cipher (thread linked above)



I would imagine he could point out exactly where.

OK guys- at the beginning of this thread I posted 7 bullet points that interested me as a scout, and what I thought would be beneficial to approach the CPM with. I read a lot of other scouts thoughts, talked to scouts in game, as well as what was considered in this thread.And, if i left anything out, please let me know!

I wanted to put together a short and sweet item list that affects us the most right now. Something easy to digest yet touches upon the bulk of the concerns I have seen. It also is partly biased based on my experiences, so while I want to make sure I put together something that represents everyone, I'd also like to preserve the spirit of keeping it easy to read and simple.

Hopefully, CPM can talk it over, and then take it to the Devs for consideration.


The state of the scout 1.2

Endurance/speed nerf
- regeneration delay if you deplete your stamina.
- actions possibly cost more stamina.
- there is a feeling of moving slower.
- all classes of suit strafe at the same speed.
- enemies can walk backwards at the same rate of speed.

Profile dampening/scanning
- scanning range is far too short. Especially for a gallente scout.
- passive scanning is unreliable and often does not work.
- it is unclear that profile dampening works. Especially at high skill levels. I.E. being seen on the minimap by
enemies/turrets/vehicles when out of LOS.

Scout Dropsuit hit box
-via limited testing it has been discovered our hit boxes increase in size when we sprint


Proto suits are underpowered
- lack of CPU/PG.
- lack of key additional H/L slot. 1H for G. 1L for Min.
- lack of a variant that includes an additional Eq slot.
- base movement/sprint speed is too low.

Weapons and hit detection
- nova knives have hit detection issues. A strafing enemy can become impossible to strike resulting in
positive feedback indicating a hit while inflicting zero damage.
- Nova knives need sprint charging.
- shotguns suffer from similar hit detection issues as the nova knife.
- shotgun reloading animation can not be canceled part way through a reload.

A few other incidental nerfs-
- RDVs now drop free LAVs off almost instantly further negating the scouts speed advantages by allowing them to run to
objectives first
- Overall frame rate has improved, and combined with ballooning hit boxes and speed nerf, has made scouts into the
collateral damage of advancing the core.

The basic problem behind scouts as a whole is the same problem as any other suit.

The stats were basically arbitrarily assigned, and most of them make like no logical sense.

Before suits can be given roles, the policy of slapping on whatever stats, layouts, and skill bonuses seem like a good idea at the time needs to die in a fire , and creating a more defined set of roles which actually make sense and are practical needs to be the policy from now on.

I'll be making a post later on in the feedback/requests forum about what IMO is the best way to achieve this.

The basic problem behind scouts as a whole is the same problem as any other suit.

The stats were basically arbitrarily assigned, and most of them make like no logical sense.

Before suits can be given roles, the policy of slapping on whatever stats, layouts, and skill bonuses seem like a good idea at the time needs to die in a fire , and creating a more defined set of roles which actually make sense and are practical needs to be the policy from now on.

I'll be making a post later on in the feedback/requests forum about what IMO is the best way to achieve this.

Linked in above post and here for your convenience :)

304/77 shield an armor on a proto for a suit that can barely punch a guy run then not even hop the handrail?

I agree with most of your post.

However, the mental image in my head from this is great. I picture a guy running up and slapping somebody, sprints away, and falls over a handrail.

I liked 1.1 scout.
I could run, I could jump an I had stamina to do so.
This 1.2 scout is horrible for the opposite of above plus our hit box seems insanely big an our core stats an slots from chrome is too big of a reduction.
A scout doesn't need to be op BUT it's not just recon an report we have active scanners an snipers for that.
Scouts are the first in an out, so our WEAPONS MUST WORK! Our speed stamina an profile reduction MUST WORK! Our stamina an speed has to be better an OUT PERFORM OTHER SUITS!

My proto suit alone is over 60 000isk for what, one more shield?
Our core stats suck in comparison to any suit in the game even with CPU pg 3 core stats 4 light weapon an sidearm opperation at 4/3 I can only run proto knives two shields an like 2enhanced biotics or cats w/e. no second gun or nade or equipment .
My proto minja knive suit, complex shield 2 enhanced shield , knives proto an two complex speed for a GRAND TOTA OF SOMETHING LIKE 304/77 shield an armor on a proto for a suit that can barely punch a guy run then not even hop the handrail?
Come on!

Ccp please consider the following in a round about way:

At least over 50% of the people in this game have been playing for a long time
They have a proficiency level of damage on their main weapon, possibly sidearm, an prototype shields armor an suit.
Therefore our weapons, scanning , dampening, STAMINA, and SPEED; must be greater and work.

Prototype minmatar scout an gallente scout have practically zero chance for survival against these proficiency weapons so I hope you consider at least one more high slot on gallente scout an one more low slot on the minmatar scout.
Every suit in the game pretty much has two more slots given to them at prototype level
I suggest we get another high or low an a equipment at proto level other wise scout is really not as effective for pc as a assault will usually take our place for these matches.

We need :

Core stamina buffed higher or have zero delay since a scout clone should be Ben Johnson !
Buff to shield an armor stat
Standard hacking buff already built into scouts
Better jumping an less stamina reduction especially with Mac endurance , kinetics an biotics, we should not still be out maneuvered
More slots at least in a prototype
Hit detection fixes on knives an sg
The ability to really run an jump without running out of gas

Anyone else have ideas?
Biggest for me is stamina , hit detection on my suit an theirs
An possible another slot an a core buff

I am tagging and forwarding this, too much good info to pass up.

I am tagging and forwarding this, too much good info to pass up.

T
A few late editions:
Minmatar melee base damage. Given the bonus of 5% level to melee per scout suit skill, it implies that the minja scout is also a brawler. The base damage of the minja suit is 80, and a fully skilled minja at LV 5 can hit 100 damage. so why bother? The base level damage for an assault/logi is 110. I believe the minja melee base skill should be increased.


Also, do you guys notice that when taking a lot of enemy fire around you you actually slow down? I am not sure if this h

Is calling the Minmatar Scout Suit a Minmatar Scout Suit really so difficult?

Thanks dude!

I've got 40 days left on my active boosters. When they're gone, so am I. I wish I could be around for those improvements, but these changes just happen too slow for a game with so many problems.

This is the point where I would yell "WOOHOO", but I have already heard this from other CPM's and still 2 patches later nothing has happened except for more unintentional nerfs.

Thank you though! I really look forward to a scout fix patch or hotfix in the near future.

As far as I know... We scouts aren't getting any direct buffs in 1.4. I'll poke around though, because we don't have a totally exhaustive list just yet.

As far as I know... We scouts aren't getting any direct buffs in 1.4.

Hiya Nova,

1.4 ain't lookin' too great for Scout balance, good sir.
We've gathered that "dev love" isn't coming our way 'til 1.5 or 1.6,
so gameplay changes are our best bet for a buff in 1.4.

Any word on a new 1.4 TacNet? The thread's gone quiet, so I'm inclined to think not.

NDA permitting, a "likely" or "not likely" would suffice in putting false hope to rest.
We won't hold it against you should you bear the bad news.
We understand you're not to blame for our prolonged, sickened state.

Bojo put up an inquiry thread on the topic:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101957&find=unread

Thanks,
Shotty GoBang

What are your thoughts on the state of scouts as of 1.2?

Salute to mollerz for all he's done for the Scout Community.
Not sure what he's up to now, but we'll miss you brother. o7

Wow if he feels this way about the quality of medal gear solid , E.A. must feel like s$%t about there games!!
-male34