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Which CPM member best represents scouts?

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mollerz Minja Scouts 558	Posted - 2013.07.03 04:50:00 - [1] - Quote What are your thoughts on the state of scouts as of 1.2?
mollerz Minja Scouts 573	Posted - 2013.07.03 17:57:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider. In my honest opinion though, More speed More stealth I agree that is the base of a scout's skillset and make up the foundation of the role's strengths. We are coalescing into a nice group of scouts that have a ton of feedback based on playing the role almost exclusively over in the general section. I also began to notice that CPM members have been absent from all of them, and of course, that got me thinking, who is representing the scouts? They certainly seem to need some representation. There doesn't seem to be much thought put into game mechanics in so far as how they affect a scout, but more to the effect of chasing down some game mechanic balancing between other roles. Do you run a scout suit? What level? Frequency? Any plans to run one this build if not? I'd love to sway you to the dark side, but I understand it is a particular play style not meant for anyone. It is also a huge SP sink and if you haven't been working towards it since day one you'd be super far behind. However, even in the CPM forum, you are the only one to respond. So, is there a way we can get our little scout group together and format some concerns and suggestions, hand them to you for discussion, and elect you our impromptu CPM rep. It would have to do for now. Out of all the CPM members, you are the only one who seems to give a toss and engage us players. And you are the only one to ever kill me in a match. So I have mad respect. I'd love to see other CPM members chime in and maybe give their take on scouts 1.2. So topics for us would include: 1- that state of the scout 1.2 2- scouts in the near term 1.3 3- where do scouts run from here. 1.x and beyond. Other topics- 4- Tools of the trade- the scouts weapons, equipment, and dropsuits 5- Better living through chemistry- The journey to find a walter white equivalent in new eden to get our biotics buffed up. We are basically smoking 1960s era weed. We need to buff it to humbolt county style flavors and specialties. 6- Doing the dirty deeds- killing and sabotage- how we can improve and add tasks and game mechanics ot exapnd the role of the scout. 7- Strategy- What works, what doesn't and how game bugs/mechanics get in the way. If the CPM members don't chime in, I welcome all the scouts to start working together to come back here, and intelligently discuss the above, add ideas to the above, and keep it organized, clean and concise.
mollerz Minja Scouts 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 20:49:00 - [3] - Quote Sorry man. your bravado doesn't do much good here. I think you might want to take that to the general area. A cloaking device will be great. But that doesn't solve all the problems. If you run a scout, you will hopefully be interested in more than a non-delivered dev blog about non-delivered equipment, and realize all the HTFU in the world would only, at best, be a personal band aid on what could be a much better role. I don't mind that you want to sit back and give it little thought, but there are a lot of us who'd like to take CCPs offer to work with us to direct where things go in the next decade. In the least, you missed the point of this thread completely, and it would be nice to keep it free of such distractions. thanks!
mollerz Minja Scouts 599	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:49:00 - [4] - Quote I just played a match, first of the day, and had the worst hit detection with the knives. Some lucky SOB out there was hacking a CRU took 5 charged swipes from me like a champ, got so scared he ran away, and stopped after he realized what happened, turned, and shot me dead in a split second with his scrambler rifle. FML.
mollerz Minja Scouts 599	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:10:00 - [5] - Quote Abbia! Thanks so much for contributing this comprehensive example of why Ganja scouts are hurting. I never played one, so I am unsure of the dynamic of them vs a Minja. I knew they were more suited for recon, and I was really jealous of the 4 low slots. I'd rather have the 1H/4L on the minja proto. At least it would have sensible possibilities based on it's role. Buffing a minmatar scout suit is worthless. The best I can do is go fast glass cannon. but with 3H/2L I can't be that much faster than anyone else. not enough to survive gunfights now. I can't really buff the damage or shields because of the lack of CPU. the stamina is F'd. Even with a complex C reg on, I only get to 440 and change. That is ok enough to deal with i suppose, save by the time I get to an objective I am almos ton E, if I run into anyone I am basically pooped out and am at a severe disadvantage. The fact that there is a delay on the stamina bar.. i mean. what problem was that solving? Now, couple this with hit detection issues, and basically you just run to your death. repeatedly. I mean- my shotgun shoots blanks (need to find a new ammo supplier ) 20% of the time I feel like. Knives are about the same. Now- the strafing is another issue for me. Why can a fatty and a logi out strafe me? They basically look like they are on a lazy susan spinning around. Some people have caught on to do this while capping something, and that also contributes to knife hit detection problems. And finally- I have run into a another issue trying to kill people doing this- if you swing the knives fast enough, they stop swinging. The noise will play, but the knives are still. i didn't realize this for a bit, but i think i may have confused hit detection with this issue a few times yesterday.
mollerz Minja Scouts 616	Posted - 2013.07.07 19:19:00 - [6] - Quote I'm super pleased that this conversation has gone so well, and is becoming extremely productive. As well as informative, I am learning a lot more since I've left the lone wolf aspect to playing alone for a bit, and started taking more interest inthe community. I've definitely been missing out on a lot. I think a lot of players are attracted to scouts for the lone wolf aspect of the game, and it is easy to miss out on the great community here. I played with mr. musturd till damn near server rest time the other night. It started off with a message from him as he was on the opposing team by chance. It was basically, name the place and I'll be there knives ready. We met at a far flung place on the map where we'd likely be able to duel with no interference. I calle din a saga 2 so that if I died, he'd be able to claim it for his :) And.. that's what happened. lol. mr musturd is a really good knifer, and despite the awkwardness of the hit detection, still manages to kill quite often. so I died, and hopefully he had a great time with that saga 2 Soon after, I had a series of technical issues getting a buddy into my squad to meet up with mr.musturd whom was also bring someone. However, the match ended and it wasn't to be. After the match, ended we all got together into a squad, and rove around as scouts. It was a blast. I had a horrible couple games, but I learned a lot. Mr m kept us in a squad of scouts, inviting known scouts in as we had room. He's also been doing a great job of building a scout squad in game. So I spent the matches building up a flaylock, and was pleasantly surprised. I ditched my shotgun in favor of it, which basically negated any PG hampering, and doubled up on my CPU savings due to my sidearm operation being level 5. and finally, I am getting my suit more capable for this current build where the disadvantages are just that much more negated. TL;DR Scouts, the lone wolf days are kind of over for now. squad up with other scouts. There's lots of cool people out there, and unfortunately, it's the best chance you have of surviving until we get some love.
mollerz Minja Scouts 641	Posted - 2013.07.09 17:28:00 - [7] - Quote For the life of me, I can't figure out any context even from what he could have possibly meant to say. lolz. oh well. one more piece of the puzzle, eh guys?
mollerz Minja Scouts 647	Posted - 2013.07.09 18:23:00 - [8] - Quote OK guys- at the beginning of this thread I posted 7 bullet points that interested me as a scout, and what I thought would be beneficial to approach the CPM with. I read a lot of other scouts thoughts, talked to scouts in game, as well as what was considered in this thread.And, if i left anything out, please let me know! I wanted to put together a short and sweet item list that affects us the most right now. Something easy to digest yet touches upon the bulk of the concerns I have seen. It also is partly biased based on my experiences, so while I want to make sure I put together something that represents everyone, I'd also like to preserve the spirit of keeping it easy to read and simple. Hopefully, CPM can talk it over, and then take it to the Devs for consideration. The state of the scout 1.2 Endurance/speed - regeneration delay if you deplete your stamina. - actions possibly cost more stamina. - there is a feeling of moving slower. - all classes of suit strafe at the same speed. - enemies can walk backwards at the same rate of speed. Profile dampening/scanning - scanning range is far too short. Especially for a gallente scout. - passive scanning is unreliable and often does not work. - it is unclear that profile dampening works. Especially at high skill levels. I.E. being seen on the minimap by enemies/turrets/vehicles when out of LOS. Scout Dropsuit hit box -via limited testing it has been discovered our hit boxes increase in size when we sprint See Moar Here Proto suits are underpowered - lack of CPU/PG. - lack of key additional H/L slot. 1H for G. 1L for Min. - lack of a variant that includes an additional Eq slot. - base movement/sprint speed is too low. Weapons and hit detection - nova knives have hit detection issues. A strafing enemy can become impossible to strike resulting in positive feedback indicating a hit while inflicting zero damage. - Nova knives need sprint charging. - shotguns suffer from similar hit detection issues as the nova knife. - shotgun reloading animation can not be canceled part way through a reload. A few other incidental nerfs- - RDVs now drop free LAVs off almost instantly further negating the scouts speed advantages by allowing them to run to objectives first - Overall frame rate has improved, and combined with ballooning hit boxes and speed nerf, has made scouts into the collateral damage of advancing the core.
mollerz Minja Scouts 652	Posted - 2013.07.09 19:14:00 - [9] - Quote interesting. IWS, would there be another explanation for the behavior we talk about? For example, why can cipher walk through the opening between two boxes, but not sprint?
mollerz Minja Scouts 652	Posted - 2013.07.09 19:21:00 - [10] - Quote Per Cipher (thread linked above) Quote: Yep. Due to lack of easy ways to measure distance on small scales, I got creative. On the bridge map, there is a gap that I noticed you cannot sprint through, which I thought was odd, so I investigated. Turns out all suits can walk though, but none can sprint through. I know a thing or two about programming, and decided this indicated increasing player profile size with speed. Scout's size is bigger than the gap when sprinting, Heavies can still walk through. I would imagine he could point out exactly where.

mollerz Minja Scouts 747	Posted - 2013.07.25 22:34:00 - [11] - Quote The state of the scout 1.2 -=Updated=- Endurance/speed/movement nerf - regeneration delay if you deplete your stamina. - actions possibly cost more stamina. - there is a feeling of moving slower. - all classes of suit strafe at the same speed. - enemies can walk backwards at the same rate of speed. - rotation speed is too slow and increasing sensitivity doesn't adjust it properly. - terrain and geometry hiccups (sticking to the world) causes the sprint animation to cease. I.E. while sprinting and hitting a bump or corner or ledge or curb (?) will cause you to stop sprinting. sprinting can be a constant mash fest. Profile dampening/scanning - scanning range is far too short. Especially for a gallente scout. - passive scanning is unreliable and often does not work. - it is unclear that profile dampening works. Especially at high skill levels. I.E. being seen on the minimap by enemies/turrets/vehicles when out of LOS. Scout Dropsuit hit box -via limited testing it has been discovered something increases in size when we sprint causing us to stick to objects. UPDATED: See moar HERE Proto suits are underpowered - lack of CPU/PG. - lack of key additional H/L slot. 1H for G. 1L for Min. - lack of a variant that includes an additional Eq slot. - base movement/sprint speed is too low. Weapons and hit detection - nova knives have hit detection issues. A strafing enemy can become impossible to strike resulting in positive feedback indicating a hit while inflicting zero damage. - Nova knives need sprint charging. - shotguns suffer from similar hit detection issues as the nova knife. - shotgun reloading animation can not be canceled part way through a reload. A few other incidental nerfs- - RDVs now drop free LAVs off almost instantly further negating the scouts speed advantages by allowing them to run to objectives first - Overall frame rate has improved, and combined with ballooning hit boxes and speed nerf, has made scouts into the collateral damage of advancing the core. A few late editions: Minmatar melee base damage. Given the bonus of 5% level to melee per scout suit skill, it implies that the minja scout is also a brawler. The base damage of the minja suit is 80, and a fully skilled minja at LV 5 can hit 100 damage. so why bother? The base level damage for an assault/logi is 110. I believe the minja melee base skill should be increased. Also, do you guys notice that when taking a lot of enemy fire around you you actually slow down? I am not sure if this h
mollerz Minja Scouts 747	Posted - 2013.07.25 22:36:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am tagging and forwarding this, too much good info to pass up. Thanks dude!
mollerz Minja Scouts 748	Posted - 2013.07.25 23:55:00 - [13] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Is calling the Minmatar Scout Suit a Minmatar Scout Suit really so difficult? It's absolutely and utterly insurmountable for me to do so.
mollerz Minja Scouts 753	Posted - 2013.07.27 02:47:00 - [14] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: I've got 40 days left on my active boosters. When they're gone, so am I. I wish I could be around for those improvements, but these changes just happen too slow for a game with so many problems. Just leave the passive going on your primary. by the time it is good you'll be able to be anything you want (one would hope). at least you'll have a leg up.
mollerz Minja Scouts 753	Posted - 2013.07.27 02:49:00 - [15] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am tagging and forwarding this, too much good info to pass up. Thanks dude! This is the point where I would yell "WOOHOO", but I have already heard this from other CPM's and still 2 patches later nothing has happened except for more unintentional nerfs. Thank you though! I really look forward to a scout fix patch or hotfix in the near future. I'm kind of thinking IWS will come over to the scout side and never leave at some point.
mollerz Minja Scouts 788	Posted - 2013.08.03 03:07:00 - [16] - Quote I've come to find out that vehicles will get a balance/makeover in 1.5 now, and infantry in 1.4. I presume this would include the scout class as a whole as well as the medium and heavy classes? Any thoughts, CPM?
mollerz Minja Scouts 874	Posted - 2013.08.11 23:30:00 - [17] - Quote That could be okay as long as they fix all the bugs.
mollerz Minja Scouts 920	Posted - 2013.09.11 07:02:00 - [18] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: mollerz wrote: What are your thoughts on the state of scouts as of 1.2? Salute to mollerz for all he's done for the Scout Community. Not sure what he's up to now, but we'll miss you brother. o7 I broke down and DL'd 1.4 in my wait for GTA5. Literally, the only improvement is the addition, apparently, of rigid body physics being addd to player character models. Translation- When you try to knife someone you do not "clip" through them and miss. so there is that. maybe shotgunhit detection is better. sadly, tho- its still far too sub par. I'm a burgeoning game dev, and I've spent my career designing low latency trading networks to handle proximity black box trading. I'm going to be honest with you guys. Strip away your gamer expectations and view this as a shrewd business person. This is afailed project, was developed wrong, and wil NOT get better. Even if they get a goodteam in to prgram and fix their direction, it will take a long time. Sorry, but I have to move on from this. I put enough time and money into it on false promises. I got duped. shrug. All of us did. You guys can hang on and hope if you want, but I am telling you. There is nothing short of a complete restructure in their dev team along with a clear cut model that will save this game. Right now they are straight up patching and praying. They never had a concrete plan. if you think they did, why haven't they implemented it? Why are they still changing everything patch to patch? A) We don't even have a full game. they never finished 16 character models representing 4 classes for 4 races of their own design. in over a year. B) Same goes for vehicles. C) Same goes for physics- terrain, structures, models, etc. A-C is representative of business 101 when it comes to video games. I assure you guys, they have people running the show who do not have the talent or wherewithal to pull this off. If they did, it would have materialized by now. You guys will be getting strung along as they think they can pull this off. If they could have pulled it off, they already would have. IF they could have a chance of pulling it off, we'd already be in a different place. Please, I implore you, do not put any more money into this game. It will be a black hole. Eve hasn't been around ten years because it had to compete. It had massive tax breaks, and plenty of time to fail until they started getting it right even with limited funding. It is not the same comparison, and dust, on their own heads, has a big chance of failing at this point. It is sickening. But were I an investor in dust, I'd, as a highly proven and competent business person, would fold at this point. Or fire everyone and get real talent and overhaul this fukn mess. My old boss, would puke if this was his product. He and I built amazing technology together. TL;DR There is aright way to do something when you take on customers, and a wrong way. We got ripped off, and we get punished for saying so. Red flags, my guys. I'm just as sorry as you guys are, but there will be far far better stuff in the pipe. This just isn't worth the lies and BS they fed us. That being said, I will DL and delete each update until it's good just for ***** and giggles. See how it goes. But seriously, please do NOT give them any more money. They are ripping us off.
mollerz Minja Scouts 921	Posted - 2013.09.11 08:05:00 - [19] - Quote Just to give you an idea about how I feel about the game industry, and where I want to be a part of it... I just ran across this on IGN ten minutes after I posted the above- THIS And to follow that, I would love to quote the first comment- Quote: Wow if he feels this way about the quality of medal gear solid , E.A. must feel like s$%t about there games!! -male34 I hope CCP and any of the devs personally reads this, and looks in the mirror and asks themselves why they are even creating dust 514 if it is going to ruin their reputation because of the complete lack of QA on their software builds. It is seriously not a cool precedent to set with your customers that you can twitter around with your product for years and at the same time instill a culture of shame in the form of HTFU being a reason to suffer their inferior product. The fact that they have a very small patsy client base they seem to draw confidence and assuredness from is disturbing. It should be. It means they feel justified in delivering an inferior product, and let an anemically small cheer leader fan base justify their actions. It is a shady and blind path that has utter disregard for basic "long con" business principles. It is a far wiser path to just do it right, stay clear to your vision, and deliver an honest effort. Then build and improve. CCP is going down a super dark path and it is a real shame. It is really not cool to F with their customer base, and I hope as scouts, you guys see what I mean. Like I've said scouts are scoundrels first, and it takes one to see one. This isn't QQ, this is straight up one industry guy to a fan base (because I am one of you guys too). This is not going ethically well. Ya feel me? don't buy into the QQ, HTFU BS. If I were a shady dev, believe me, I would love to foster such a thing. Con job 101. I would love them to turn it around, but I am telling you. Software engineering wise, it is not going to happen with the current team. Ask yourself, is anything even close to what they said? Compare this to worse FPS games you hate, and honestly ask yourself, if you removed the dust community, would this game be worth anything?

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