DUST Search - Which CPM member best represents scouts?

All Channels

The Council's Chamber

Which CPM member best represents scouts?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
mollerz Minja Scouts 558	Posted - 2013.07.03 04:50:00 - [1] - Quote What are your thoughts on the state of scouts as of 1.2?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5599	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:51:00 - [2] - Quote I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider. In my honest opinion though, More speed More stealth
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 216	Posted - 2013.07.03 09:04:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider. In my honest opinion though, More speed More stealth speeds is ok to me. especially once you get speed mods. I just dont think CCP know what to do with the scout class in general - the changes since E3 have been dramatic for them. Are they supposed to be engaging in the battlefield or scouting? If the latter we have no maps/ gameplay for this class (unless it is coming).
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5602	Posted - 2013.07.03 17:39:00 - [4] - Quote xAckie wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider. In my honest opinion though, More speed More stealth speeds is ok to me. especially once you get speed mods. I just dont think CCP know what to do with the scout class in general - the changes since E3 have been dramatic for them. Are they supposed to be engaging in the battlefield or scouting? If the latter we have no maps/ gameplay for this class (unless it is coming). Well CCP knows the scout has been underperforming lately and are scheduling it some love, how or what is beyond me atm but I am sure they're going to look into the class more and try to properly place it on the battlefield.
mollerz Minja Scouts 573	Posted - 2013.07.03 17:57:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider. In my honest opinion though, More speed More stealth I agree that is the base of a scout's skillset and make up the foundation of the role's strengths. We are coalescing into a nice group of scouts that have a ton of feedback based on playing the role almost exclusively over in the general section. I also began to notice that CPM members have been absent from all of them, and of course, that got me thinking, who is representing the scouts? They certainly seem to need some representation. There doesn't seem to be much thought put into game mechanics in so far as how they affect a scout, but more to the effect of chasing down some game mechanic balancing between other roles. Do you run a scout suit? What level? Frequency? Any plans to run one this build if not? I'd love to sway you to the dark side, but I understand it is a particular play style not meant for anyone. It is also a huge SP sink and if you haven't been working towards it since day one you'd be super far behind. However, even in the CPM forum, you are the only one to respond. So, is there a way we can get our little scout group together and format some concerns and suggestions, hand them to you for discussion, and elect you our impromptu CPM rep. It would have to do for now. Out of all the CPM members, you are the only one who seems to give a toss and engage us players. And you are the only one to ever kill me in a match. So I have mad respect. I'd love to see other CPM members chime in and maybe give their take on scouts 1.2. So topics for us would include: 1- that state of the scout 1.2 2- scouts in the near term 1.3 3- where do scouts run from here. 1.x and beyond. Other topics- 4- Tools of the trade- the scouts weapons, equipment, and dropsuits 5- Better living through chemistry- The journey to find a walter white equivalent in new eden to get our biotics buffed up. We are basically smoking 1960s era weed. We need to buff it to humbolt county style flavors and specialties. 6- Doing the dirty deeds- killing and sabotage- how we can improve and add tasks and game mechanics ot exapnd the role of the scout. 7- Strategy- What works, what doesn't and how game bugs/mechanics get in the way. If the CPM members don't chime in, I welcome all the scouts to start working together to come back here, and intelligently discuss the above, add ideas to the above, and keep it organized, clean and concise.
Haerr Molon Labe. League of Infamy 15	Posted - 2013.07.03 20:20:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: xAckie wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am going to admit that I am probably the worst guy to ask this because when I play scout I play as a suicider. In my honest opinion though, More speed More stealth speeds is ok to me. especially once you get speed mods. I just dont think CCP know what to do with the scout class in general - the changes since E3 have been dramatic for them. Are they supposed to be engaging in the battlefield or scouting? If the latter we have no maps/ gameplay for this class (unless it is coming). Well CCP knows the scout has been underperforming lately and are scheduling it some love, how or what is beyond me atm but I am sure they're going to look into the class more and try to properly place it on the battlefield. Maybe something like the 'Cloaking Field' that was mentioned in a dev blog back in march? http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/ Either way I am happy simply because 'CCP knows that the scout has been underperforming lately'... I am also happy to know that maybe, just maybe, it isn't just me that needs to HTFU and get good. (Although to be fair I probably should get around to doing that ;) +1 btw
mollerz Minja Scouts 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 20:49:00 - [7] - Quote Sorry man. your bravado doesn't do much good here. I think you might want to take that to the general area. A cloaking device will be great. But that doesn't solve all the problems. If you run a scout, you will hopefully be interested in more than a non-delivered dev blog about non-delivered equipment, and realize all the HTFU in the world would only, at best, be a personal band aid on what could be a much better role. I don't mind that you want to sit back and give it little thought, but there are a lot of us who'd like to take CCPs offer to work with us to direct where things go in the next decade. In the least, you missed the point of this thread completely, and it would be nice to keep it free of such distractions. thanks!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5609	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:05:00 - [8] - Quote Well CCP is armed with graphs though and they do notice bad trends.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 55	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:52:00 - [9] - Quote Show us some much needed love here CCP, our arms are wide open. I also wonder if they test out other suits? Not just the medium frames.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French CRONOS. 1683	Posted - 2013.07.04 14:41:00 - [10] - Quote Scout should have basic low radar signature. And probably a boost to hack speed. The way i see scouts, they are : speedy, fragile, stealthy, rapid intervention force who should use brute force CQC weapon (shotguns, knives). They're not very far from acting as intended but may still lack some HP. Dont know though if its base HP or holes in PG\CPU to allow for decent fitting. Overall, i havent played scouts much so i'm kinda clueless on how you feel on the ground using them.

Django Quik R.I.f.t 796	Posted - 2013.07.04 17:30:00 - [11] - Quote I don't think we scouts need a special rep on the CPM to bring our thoughts and concerns to CCP. The whole CPM should be (and I believe are) listening to the entire playerbase and reporting everyone's thoughts and concerns to CCP. This is to do with my dislike of people wanting 'specialists' and 'single-issue heroes' on the CPM because they will only focus on their one area and be of no use and maybe even counter-productive for the rest of the game. What has become clear in 1.2 is that scouts die very quickly. Now, I'm not going to say give them more HP or even say give them more slots to stack shields or whatever because they are supposed to be fragile but they need a suitable counter that is also relevant to the class. The cloak (depending on how it is implemented) could be very useful but stealth mechanics in this game need tweaking in general anyway. Scanning profile and radius are irrelevant when someone can get line of sight on you from 200m away and you instantly become visible to everyone even if you're stacking profile dampeners. [note rough numbers] Maybe make profile and radius have an impact on LOS identification too - for every 1 point of scan precision you get 10m of LOS identification radius; for every 1 point difference in attacker's profile to the defender's precision, this LOS radius is reduced by 10m (or increased if the precision is higher than the profile). This doesn't prevent people seeing other players but stops a red chevron from showing and position being relayed to squad/team mates. Special scoped weapons and zoomed ADS could add to LOS radius for long distance spotting.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 45	Posted - 2013.07.04 22:41:00 - [12] - Quote Sorry about the huge post. This is my .02 ISK, and I thought I might as well say it while CCP is listening. Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Dont know though if its base HP or holes in PG\CPU to allow for decent fitting. The Base CPU/PG is the real problem. With so few slots and CPU/PG, It is hard to run the suit effectively. I saw a post were someone did some number crunching and came out to an average of 25 CPU per slot allowed (going to find the post soon). That includes Weapons and everything. 25 CPU is not enough per slot, especially since Assault and Logi get around 29-30 each and also have 7-9 mod slots instead of 5 mod slots for the current scouts. I belive that giving the Minmatar an extra low slot, and Gallente an extra High slot would work, so long as you boost the CPU up to 27 per slot. Speed: With the update, scout seems slower when sprinting away from people. Speed is our only defense when running away, due to our low eHP. A small speed boost would be appreciated. Also, I am finding it really aggravating that while we sprint fast, our movement speed is only a tad bit faster than the medium. Example: Say that I am 2 meters away from the target mid suit when he turns and sees me. He starts to move backwards. Since I cannot charge my knives, I have to walk the distance. I walk at 5.6, and he walks at 5 m/s. I only gain .6m every second, so in order to cover that 2m distance to my target, it will take me around, 3 seconds to cover that distance. My target will be spraying AR at me the whole time. Say that I decide to sprint at my target instead of running. I can't attack while sprinting, and I have had them just jump over my head or just start circle strafing around me spraying AR from their 60 round clip the entire time. About 15% of the time I can get a kill (and those times are when they just don't react in time). Against an aware opponent, I will have to run away or die. For a CQC class, you would think that being within 2m would be an easy fight at that point. It is not. I think that speeds should follow the current Heavy to Medium Trend. A heavy walks at 3.65 m/s. The heavy walks about 1.3 m/s slower than a medium. A mediums walk speed is 5 m/s. Following the trend, a scout should walk at 6.3 m/s and then sprint at whatever seems reasonable (8.0 for gallente maybe?) This ensure that you have noticeable speed distances between the suits. Heavys walk noticeably slower than Mediums, who walks noticeable slower than a scout. Stealth: The profile dampening is a great ability. However, it is terrible at the moment. Why? Because nobody can detect anything unless you are within 10m. You don't need the dampening within that range (helpful yes, but not for the right reasons). Within that range, you are moving in for an attack. The scout is supposed to be able to make it behind enemy lines undetected, but right now ANY MEDIUM SUIT CAN AS WELL. So long as the medium moves fast (which it can with speed mods), and stays 10m away from people, it is just as hard to detect, and a LOT stronger and tougher. If you make the Radar more effective at range, it will give scout's their purpose. They will be the only ones able to sneak through enemy lines (w/o stealth mods), and since people will rely more on their radar (because it will work), it will make sneak attacks more effective, because their guard will be down. Once again, sorry about the huge post. This is just my personal take on the whole scout suit. Feel free to troll, lol, agree, and debate as you see fit.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 216	Posted - 2013.07.05 08:15:00 - [13] - Quote The above post shows what is wrong with the scout class at the moment. Min and cal Assault or logi with mods can do the job of Cqc shotty etc more effectively than a scout. If this is the point of the scout. Extra slots will help the scout class. And an Equipment slot (carrry re and droplinks, get behind enemy - perhaps these are coming with the other suits?) But I am still not convinced CCP knows what it wants this class to be. Do they want them engaged in combat? If so then they need to add more slots and buff base HP a bit. If to be a scout class then they need to implement bigger maps and behind the lines gameplay. Non existent at the moment. What would help with this discussion is if CCP could say how it sees this class developing with planned expansions and we could work from there?
Jak'Saan 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:03:00 - [14] - Quote Man... I have to say, I'm so demoralized by all the nerfing of scouts (an already difficult role). Honestly I'd just like an answer to if it's going to be fixed and when. I'd be happy with "No" or even "yes, in 1 month". Waiting and hoping is killing me, I want to know if I need to move on. I thought we were out of Beta. Am I wrong?
mollerz Minja Scouts 599	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:49:00 - [15] - Quote I just played a match, first of the day, and had the worst hit detection with the knives. Some lucky SOB out there was hacking a CRU took 5 charged swipes from me like a champ, got so scared he ran away, and stopped after he realized what happened, turned, and shot me dead in a split second with his scrambler rifle. FML.
Appia Vibbia Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 101	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:50:00 - [16] - Quote The Scout's passive scan radius needs to buffed up to 20m, but would be best returning to 25m again. The range is simply not enough to notice someone in time to round a corner or fend off someone walking up behind you. Why is it that Gallente Scouts are talking about using Active Scanners? The suit's role is to use the passive scanner more effectively than any other suits. This is poor design. I need 2 complex range amplifiers and still am falling short of my passive range from the last build. I believe the change to Endurance was that there is now a delay for stamina regeneration. Regardless this change is devastating to the Scout, it has hampered on the hit-and-run tactics by reducing it to Hit-and-can't-run. A single jump will completely drain your stamina (and it should no arguments there), but it was quite effective to strafe around a second or two to regain your stamina and run away or jump again. Perhaps making one more fully aware of the screen, making sure someone can look in 4 places at once is a good thing. it makes it challenging. You have to manage yourself better now, looking at the radar, your ammo, and your stamina, all the while watching and aiming at your enemies. I do have a great love for that kind of management, but this delay in regeneration has made the stamina gauge more important than worrying if you have enough ammo to take someone out. Honestly, I could play a shotgunner much better in a Gallente Logistics suit. The 5 low slots and self repair means that they have 2 more low slots than I do in my current fitting. 2 cardiac regulators and 3 kinetic catalyzers put them just below my sprint speed but nearly 3 times my stamina as a Scout. They also have multiple high slots to either add damage, survivability, or scan precision . This is not a argument against Logi's (there is plenty of that) but a way to illustrate that the survivability of the scout continues to decrease. The Gallente Scout's greatest advantage is in the passive scanning abilities, but they can be replaced by that Gallente Logistics shotgunner changing out one of those biotic mods for a complex profile dampener and carrying an Active Scanner. . . But wait! Those Logistics Suits don't get a sidearm. This really isn't much of a dilemma, but killing power vs survivability is the thing that separate the two. As for the other style of Scout play. The AUR suits titled "Hunter" is a good place to start. It defaults to an AR, but really using that, the Scrambler Rifle, or the Mass Driver is fairly similar. They run around and flank and kill those distracted, be it other enemies, looking down the scope of a sniper rifle, or looking for uplinks and nanohives. Closer to the Hunter than the CQC are those of us running around with dual sidearms. You can see the devastating power of a Gallente Scout with KinCats and dual core flaylocks, the disrupting power of 2 SMGs, or the unequaled gungame of those few that dual wield the Scrambler Pistols. These are the guys that need that range back. With 1 complex Range amplifier they get to 32m. This still isnt enough, and sacrificing more than 1 slot on our desperately lacking suit is never worth it. (Of course this is in the magical, perfect world where the passive scanner actually works... it does not.) They need about a range of 40 to see the people they want to run up on when behind cover. The radar needs to extend to just past optimal range (my KLO-1 had a range of 87 but optimal of like 25 in Chromosome don't know about any changes). The Gallente Scout has range on the passive scanner, but with only 1 Hi-slot can only get their Precision to about 29. . . that means A Gallente Scout can never see another Gallente Scout on the radar (sorry, I had done the part on dual sidearms and AR/SR/MD better and more comprehensive but I lost it to a forced restart while I was asleep and has lost some of the more detailed critiques. Hunter/Dual guys would most benefit from return to previous Scan Range of 25m) Last there is the once-starter-fit: the Arbiter. The Sniper Scout, the classic gaming idea of sniping having a glass cannon. But wait! it isn't a glass cannon... If you haven't noticed, the average HP of all suits (save the scout) have increased significantly. With most suits on the field having 500-850 EHP. 261, that's the power of my Ishukone Sniper Rifle with proficiency at 5. Nearly any Assault and Logi worth their salt won't let you get three shots off on them using the standard variant, and unless they're running in a straight line on flat ground or standing perfectly still there is little chance of getting headshots reliably. I could, conceivably get 3 shots off with the Tactical variants, but it is significantly harder to have someone that ill-experienced to let me get 3 shots off. Even then, 3 rounds and none to the head barely break 600 damage. I brought this up in an EVE-mail to Hans very early on when he said he was healping CP0. I have heard nothing about this Sniper Rifle situation from him, the rest of CPM0 or the Devs. . . Best bet is to get a Gallente Medium, Caldari Assault, or Amarr Logistics when sniping. There is need for a sidearm, but more than that you need to be stacking damage mods. The Gallente Scout cannot be an effective sniper without stacking damage mods. the Idea that the scout is stealthy is ridiculous. Sure I could make myself invisible to all active and passive scanners, but I am completely equal in my capacity to stay outside 100m range of the Active Scanners regardless of the suit I am in. . . I can get killing in a single shot from a MLT sniper rifle, but cannot kill someone in a Medium suit on my own. Not to mention this problem https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74777 which has not gotten any recognition in since lat May by CCP Farrari, and completely ignored by any other DEV. There have been 2 changes since, but neither of them significant to help
Appia Vibbia Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 101	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:08:00 - [17] - Quote Django Quik wrote: [note rough numbers] Maybe make profile and radius have an impact on LOS identification too. . . This doesn't prevent people seeing other players but stops a red chevron from showing and position being relayed to squad/teammates. Special scoped weapons and zoomed ADS could add to LOS radius for long distance spotting. This would be wonderful. Being invisible to scanners is something we want, that is why we go into profile dampening, but it really has very little impact. I really think that this is how it should be. As a continuation. there are 3 AUR featured Scout suits. the hunter, the cqc, and the infiltrator. . . essentially as a scout accumulates SP the Hunter or CQC starts to envelop the Infiltrator. Which is a bit nice. It was always the Scout that was supposed to sneak in behind enemy lines, drop some uplinks, hack an objective or CRU, and get out... they just gain some killing power later on. One of the problems is again, like with the sniper, that Scout suits just can't dish out the damage they need to to be competitive. With the shotgun you can scrape by with the CRG-3, but that Proto is the one you need. Last build you could run around with the HK4M (from the old Merc Pack still available as cards at some gamestops). Now, if you haven't skilled into shotguns that thing has ZERO bite to it. And by the time you've skilled into it enough to make it effective you can use the ADV one which is better and not in limited stock. We want our Scouts to be Glass Cannons or Paper Rams. We need to do more damage across the board to fit either of those styles.
mollerz Minja Scouts 599	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:10:00 - [18] - Quote Abbia! Thanks so much for contributing this comprehensive example of why Ganja scouts are hurting. I never played one, so I am unsure of the dynamic of them vs a Minja. I knew they were more suited for recon, and I was really jealous of the 4 low slots. I'd rather have the 1H/4L on the minja proto. At least it would have sensible possibilities based on it's role. Buffing a minmatar scout suit is worthless. The best I can do is go fast glass cannon. but with 3H/2L I can't be that much faster than anyone else. not enough to survive gunfights now. I can't really buff the damage or shields because of the lack of CPU. the stamina is F'd. Even with a complex C reg on, I only get to 440 and change. That is ok enough to deal with i suppose, save by the time I get to an objective I am almos ton E, if I run into anyone I am basically pooped out and am at a severe disadvantage. The fact that there is a delay on the stamina bar.. i mean. what problem was that solving? Now, couple this with hit detection issues, and basically you just run to your death. repeatedly. I mean- my shotgun shoots blanks (need to find a new ammo supplier ) 20% of the time I feel like. Knives are about the same. Now- the strafing is another issue for me. Why can a fatty and a logi out strafe me? They basically look like they are on a lazy susan spinning around. Some people have caught on to do this while capping something, and that also contributes to knife hit detection problems. And finally- I have run into a another issue trying to kill people doing this- if you swing the knives fast enough, they stop swinging. The noise will play, but the knives are still. i didn't realize this for a bit, but i think i may have confused hit detection with this issue a few times yesterday.
First Prophet Jaguar Empire 229	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:52:00 - [19] - Quote Mollerz for CPM.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 171	Posted - 2013.07.06 09:30:00 - [20] - Quote Very good points above. I'd like to expand on the point of survivability of the proto Gallente suit. I can't see running this suit regularly. In every scenario it doesn't make sense cost/benefit wise except for maybe an initial speed/hacker fit. It's not survivable enough (the Minja suit is not exactly the paragon of survivability either....) - it's a suicide fit, at proto level! With only 1 high slot my shield buffer would be what, 160 HP if I run a complex shield extender? As a suit geared primarily towards infiltration, I can expect that if I die behind enemy lines I will not get any revives, and as an infiltrator I'll likely be carrying an active scanner (which is a shame, I shouldn't need to do that give my supposed passive scanning focus) or a drop uplink instead of an armor repping nanohive..... and the low slots either being devoted to dampening, range or biotic mods over armor and armor reps means my shield buffer is VERY important. I don't see this suit as cost effective at all. I wouldn't pay to buy and equip a proto suit with proto gear if I only have on the order of 300 HP, with likely on 160 of which regenerates (shield). And if I do devote a low slot to armor reps? Now I've got only 3 slots to juggle speed, stamina, dampening and range modules.... Bottom line. I can't see using this suit. Any one of these changes would help: - provide an additional high slot at proto level. - provide some small passive armor rep (1 HP/S) - (This would be good for Minja as well, as the fit seems to demand a kin/cat + stamina mod combo) - increase scan range to reduce need for running range modules - implement the LOS dampening suggested so that I have better odds of staying alive behind enemy lines I'm sure there are other potential solutions. I think that this issue has been reflected in the fact that I've NEVER seen a proto Gallente on the field, and maybe only 3 in the war barge....

Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass 476	Posted - 2013.07.06 21:58:00 - [21] - Quote mollerz wrote: What are your thoughts on the state of scouts as of 1.2? Besides being in one of the worst places of any of the four basic suit types? (I think that pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter.) Logistics suits are the current top-complained-about suit type, and they're arguably the easiest to tweak into a good place - but they're far from being the most useless at their role. Heavies also complain a lot - but if you pay attention its mostly because of our lack of new toys, not because we can't take out vehicles or mow down infantry with a machine gun effectively. I used to play as a shotgun scout in previous builds, but gave up long ago when I realized it was more efficient to just throw a speed mod on a assault suit and use that with the shotgun instead (this was before logistics became more resilient than assault fits). Sniping with a scout is also a joke, you're better off in an advanced heavy frame with a pair of complex damage modifiers and added armor, assuming someone's set you up with a hive. I even tried the ninja build with This week I've been dabbling with the shotgun again as a contender for my Commando "Sidearm", but it hasn't impressed this time around either, and frankly I'm just not going to invest proto skill points into something with such limited application at the end of the day. But I'm on a tangent - this isn't really about the shotgun being anemic (as much as it would help if this were a competitive CQC tool) ....this is about scout suits themselves. And the reality is that they suffer in a very similar (but to a greater degree) fashion as the plight of the heavy suit - the intended characteristic that's supposed to keep them alive simply doesn't. With the scout, its the lack of enough speed and stealth to compensate for the loss in EHP - and with the heavy, its the weak increase in EHP failing to compensate for the dramatic reduction in speed. Like IWS pointed out, the good news is that these issues are well-documented and understood, there's just zero doubt in my mind that CCP understands that the Scout suit is in an unhealthy place right now. Wolfman has been speaking with us more and more frequently about his desired dropsuit work, and its clear that he and the other designers very much WANT to do a balancing pass on them as soon as possible. What they are up against is the new development roadmap, which has prioritized the performance of the core game. This is not only something I absolutely support, but I also see little value in pushing for a balancing pass prior to the bulk of the work that will address framerate, hit detection, aiming, and lag - all of which are absolutely vital to successful use of speed-based suits like the Scout. Once the game RUNS the way it is supposed to - it'll be much more trivial to dig in and tweak the numbers along the lines that have been suggested in this thread, though I think we'll see those needs shift slightly as the various performance tweaks affect how CQC behaves without any passes done on the gear. All that to say, the message is clearly received and this has little to do with anyone's lack of love for Scout suits or lack of understanding that they're in a bad place as much as the devs being temporarily retasked to focuse on improving the core first. I've bookmarked the thread here and added it to my notes, and will definitely be drawing on these ideas during our future discussions with whomever picks up the Scout balance project. The good news is that this balance pass IS part of the short-term roadmap - it just falls behind performance improvements which will be the bulk of Uprising 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. The most practical thing I think we should focus on is getting some resolution about this lingering visibility bug. The bottom line is that if our weapons can shoot that far, and the maps are going to be this large, disappearing character models are simple unacceptable however you slice it. I think that more than ever, with the implementation of falloff damage - this needs to be addressed as soon as possble. And frankly, it fits in perfectly with "core performance" issues anyways, as this affects other weapons as well (like my forge gun). I'll be sure to corner CCP about the disappearing models first thing Monday morning, and sniff around until I can get you an answer as to the state of the bug and its repair. It's long overdue. o7
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 51	Posted - 2013.07.07 00:18:00 - [22] - Quote ^ In short: The trade-offs are not worth the bonuses. I can't wait until they make it worth it. I will be as happy as my stealthy little Ghost can be! Take it all the way Heinrich! My Favorite Parts! Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: The intended characteristic that's supposed to keep them alive simply doesn't. With the scout, its the lack of enough speed and stealth to compensate for the loss in EHP I realized it was more efficient to just throw a speed mod on a assault suit and use that with the shotgun instead There's just zero doubt in my mind that CCP understands that the Scout suit is in an unhealthy place right now I've bookmarked the thread here and added it to my notes, and will definitely be drawing on these ideas during our future discussions with whomever picks up the Scout balance project.
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:05:00 - [23] - Quote One of the main problems is the "fix" to hit detection. It was fast and easy, but shoddy around the edges. It puts scouts at a large disadvantage. More here - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1016640#post1016640
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 235	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:39:00 - [24] - Quote I think there are two ways Scouts could work Scout as Flanker/Attacker -This is what most people play Scout as right now, and why not with one equipment slot, you cannot do very much support anyway, this Scout is adept at CQC combat whose primary means of getting around is based around stealth. This scout either needs more speed or a little bit more eHP to be more effective. They should be fragile, but not have them teleporting all over the place, at the same time, they should be fragile but not die in 3 bullets Scout as Support -The other variant of the Scout, this focuses on being a faster, squishier Logistics suit, they are mainly used to drop Uplinks quick and not be seen doing so. This differs from the Logistics class, which is more frontline support. This particular scout would need more CPU/PG as well as more equipment slots. Now I don't know which Scout CCP has in mine when they say "Scouts" but that's what I think should happen with both. I would also like to have more module slots for all scouts as they can be more varied. I think both Scout types should be an option in this game, but that's just me
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:46:00 - [25] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: I think there are two ways Scouts could work Scout as Flanker/Attacker -This is what most people play Scout as right now, and why not with one equipment slot, you cannot do very much support anyway, this Scout is adept at CQC combat whose primary means of getting around is based around stealth. This scout either needs more speed or a little bit more eHP to be more effective. They should be fragile, but not have them teleporting all over the place, at the same time, they should be fragile but not die in 3 bullets Scout as Support -The other variant of the Scout, this focuses on being a faster, squishier Logistics suit, they are mainly used to drop Uplinks quick and not be seen doing so. This differs from the Logistics class, which is more frontline support. This particular scout would need more CPU/PG as well as more equipment slots. Now I don't know which Scout CCP has in mine when they say "Scouts" but that's what I think should happen with both. I would also like to have more module slots for all scouts as they can be more varied. I think both Scout types should be an option in this game, but that's just me Proto assault rifles do about 40 damage per bullet. (110% efficiency up to about 50m). It takes someone with no proficiency or damage mods 8 bullets to kill almost any proto scout. Regardless, I don't think scouts need more HP, only more speed and a lower hitbox when strafing and sprinting. At the minute,a sprinting minmitar scout has a larger hitbox than a stationary heavy, which is ridiculous. This is one of the main things that killed us in 1.2, along with stamina nerf.
mollerz Minja Scouts 616	Posted - 2013.07.07 19:19:00 - [26] - Quote I'm super pleased that this conversation has gone so well, and is becoming extremely productive. As well as informative, I am learning a lot more since I've left the lone wolf aspect to playing alone for a bit, and started taking more interest inthe community. I've definitely been missing out on a lot. I think a lot of players are attracted to scouts for the lone wolf aspect of the game, and it is easy to miss out on the great community here. I played with mr. musturd till damn near server rest time the other night. It started off with a message from him as he was on the opposing team by chance. It was basically, name the place and I'll be there knives ready. We met at a far flung place on the map where we'd likely be able to duel with no interference. I calle din a saga 2 so that if I died, he'd be able to claim it for his :) And.. that's what happened. lol. mr musturd is a really good knifer, and despite the awkwardness of the hit detection, still manages to kill quite often. so I died, and hopefully he had a great time with that saga 2 Soon after, I had a series of technical issues getting a buddy into my squad to meet up with mr.musturd whom was also bring someone. However, the match ended and it wasn't to be. After the match, ended we all got together into a squad, and rove around as scouts. It was a blast. I had a horrible couple games, but I learned a lot. Mr m kept us in a squad of scouts, inviting known scouts in as we had room. He's also been doing a great job of building a scout squad in game. So I spent the matches building up a flaylock, and was pleasantly surprised. I ditched my shotgun in favor of it, which basically negated any PG hampering, and doubled up on my CPU savings due to my sidearm operation being level 5. and finally, I am getting my suit more capable for this current build where the disadvantages are just that much more negated. TL;DR Scouts, the lone wolf days are kind of over for now. squad up with other scouts. There's lots of cool people out there, and unfortunately, it's the best chance you have of surviving until we get some love.
Atikali Havendoorr HERBGROWERS 29	Posted - 2013.07.08 11:28:00 - [27] - Quote Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: ... The most practical thing I think we should focus on is getting some resolution about this lingering visibility bug. The bottom line is that if our weapons can shoot that far, and the maps are going to be this large, disappearing character models are simple unacceptable however you slice it. I think that more than ever, with the implementation of falloff damage - this needs to be addressed as soon as possble. And frankly, it fits in perfectly with "core performance" issues anyways, as this affects other weapons as well (like my forge gun). ... Very good post! About this quoted section, I would like to add that firelines/projectile smoke from your guns, most notably AR, does not render in a motion. It is just a visual effect that pops out, and then disappears, which makes you unable to see where the gunfire comes from. This I think is very annoying to say the least, and imo a game breaking feature that is among the core performance issues. Being aware of your surroundings is crucial. If I don't get any clue of what is killing me, it's all just a lottery. This goes for sound as well, but i think the graphical part is more important. If I see someone fire from the side a bit ahead of me, I can't determine if it comes from left or right. I have to check. Not being certain immediately can be fatal. This goes for railguns as well. It's partly worse on that matter, since you don't even get to se a line of fire at all! Just the explosion at (usualy) the installation. You look around to se if there's anything. But no, nothing. Mostly they're too far away. But even if it's a friendly who you know certainly firing on another installation, the friendly turret or tank does not render a shot!!! How are we supposed to do warfare under these circumstances?! Also, the games presentation of the amount of shots fired does not align with actual shots. With the AR, if you fire 1 shot, you hear the sound of 2. If you fire 2, you hear the sound of 3. And projectile smoke is only rendered for every third or fifth shot. I don't hink I have seen any other gun game presenting the gunfire mechanics this lousy.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI 89	Posted - 2013.07.08 23:19:00 - [28] - Quote Some interesting news regarding why we seem to die so much when we sprint: Apparently, our hitbox gets bigger the faster you move. OP is still testing at the moment, but I am inclined to believe him, due to how much you get "caught" on objects when you are sprinting. Apparently, there are some spaces that you can walk through normally, but if you try to sprint, you will get stuck. Current estimate is that our hitbox is the same as a standing heavy while sprinting. Just wanna know if CCP can confirm or deny this research.
Atikali Havendoorr HERBGROWERS 30	Posted - 2013.07.08 23:40:00 - [29] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Some interesting news regarding why we seem to die so much when we sprint: Apparently, our hitbox gets bigger the faster you move. OP is still testing at the moment, but I am inclined to believe him, due to how much you get "caught" on objects when you are sprinting. Apparently, there are some spaces that you can walk through normally, but if you try to sprint, you will get stuck. Current estimate is that our hitbox is the same as a standing heavy while sprinting. Just wanna know if CCP can confirm or deny this research. Sounds plausible. When you say so, I think I have experienced the same thing, but thought it was the usual environment glitch that caught me. Most of all would it explain why I so often take damage (and die) just when I think I've got around a corner as a scout. I could swear I got past, but I still take some more damage. What a cheap way to reduce the lag issue!
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 190	Posted - 2013.07.09 00:10:00 - [30] - Quote Atikali Havendoorr wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Some interesting news regarding why we seem to die so much when we sprint: Apparently, our hitbox gets bigger the faster you move. OP is still testing at the moment, but I am inclined to believe him, due to how much you get "caught" on objects when you are sprinting. Apparently, there are some spaces that you can walk through normally, but if you try to sprint, you will get stuck. Current estimate is that our hitbox is the same as a standing heavy while sprinting. Just wanna know if CCP can confirm or deny this research. Sounds plausible. When you say so, I think I have experienced the same thing, but thought it was the usual environment glitch that caught me. Most of all would it explain why I so often take damage (and die) just when I think I've got around a corner as a scout. I could swear I got past, but I still take some more damage. What a cheap way to reduce the lag issue! Yep. Its common in video games, but they took it too far with regards to scouts. The fact that it's noticeable says a lot, and the level of suffering it imposes on us is unfortunate. It cripples the fast paced playstyle



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.