I am very sick and tired of people wanting to nerf the Flaylock. Why? Because I don't want it to end up on the useless weapons pile. A pile consisting of the MD, LR and Plasma Cannon.

I have said many a times that the MD < the Flaylock. That does not mean that the Flaylock needs to be nerfed. It means the MD needs to be buffed.

Why was every weapon besides the AR severely nerfed in Uprising? Better yet, why do people want to KEEP nerfing them? Honestly it leaves me in disarray. At the end of the day, we should buff up all the weapons. Not nerf them, not even the AR.

Yeah because a sidearm being used as a primary is not wrong, and especially when it has the lowest fitting requirements of all the sidearms...

I've never seen a logi with it, who's using them as primaries?

Noobs don't count, it being a noob tube was a design choice.

AR>>> Flaylock, unless you can't aim the AR of course
Hell, in hands of a skilled player Scrambler pistol >> Flaylock.

You don't play the game a lot do you?
Also anybody that doesn't say it's a little OP is usually Caldari/Min. spec'd.

I am very sick and tired of people wanting to nerf the Flaylock. Why? Because I don't want it to end up on the useless weapons pile. A pile consisting of the MD, LR and Plasma Cannon.

I have said many a times that the MD < the Flaylock. That does not mean that the Flaylock needs to be nerfed. It means the MD needs to be buffed.

Why was every weapon besides the AR severely nerfed in Uprising? Better yet, why do people want to KEEP nerfing them? Honestly it leaves me in disarray. At the end of the day, we should buff up all the weapons. Not nerf them, not even the AR.

You don't play the game a lot do you?
Also anybody that doesn't say it's a little OP is usually Caldari/Min. spec'd.

Lol we were playing earlier against a group of guys and were beating them by 20 and than they all brought out their core flaylocks and almost nearly took the game from us. Core GODlock pistol FTW! Even in PCs now a days they are getting used a lot more frequently by the "best" players in this game.

I like when they run them as primary :)

No offense to you Sloth but you have a awful LOT to say and ALWAYS throw your two cents in and you don't even play Dust, lmfao!

What? It's safer in the MCC. Plus, this way I'm unaffected by any changes to balance
Nerf the Flaylock, I'll just use my AFK SP to spec into proto SMGs

Lol we were playing earlier against a group of guys and were beating them by 20 and than they all brought out their core flaylocks and almost nearly took the game from us. Core GODlock pistol FTW! Even in PCs now a days they are getting used a lot more frequently by the "best" players in this game.

I like when they run them as primary :)

Please do, they aren't as effective as FPs. Even the Cala's isn't.

My STD Syn is almost as good my Core Flaylock with prof 3.... yeah, I'm sure the Proto version is inferior, yup...

Against an armor suit, it most definitely is.

Cala's is officer, though, not proto.

educe the splash to that of the standard variant

My personal experience with both guns makes me not believe you.

Advanced maybe, but STD? I'd rather use Nova Knives, that would render it completely useless, why even have splash damage?

How lucky is that?

Use nova knives then, they do more damage, and have 1m range.

It shouldn't have splash larger then people can jump. Bunny hopping should be a valid counter to the weapon, maybe people will begin to aim for the body.

That is exactly what the breach variant does, it even has more direct damage.

Do you at least plan to increase damage to compensate for that ridiculous splash range nerf? If not, then like I said, worthless, because STD flaylock = Worthless.

It's not worthless, it will still be a great sidearm choice. Your relative worthiness is based off of a sidearm people are building suits around...

It's not worthless, it will still be a great sidearm choice.

At 250 for a direct shot with a rather slow projectile, It would be easier to spam R1 on a scrambler pistol, don't even have to go for head shots. The fact that you think this is a reasonable nerf tells me you've never touched the STD variant in your life.

"great side arm choice"

Anyway, since I think you're actually serious about this, I'm just going to stop.

At 250 for a direct shot with a rather slow projectile, It would be easier to spam R1 on a scrambler pistol, don't even have to go for head shots. The fact that you think this is a reasonable nerf tells me you've never touched the STD variant in your life.

"great side arm choice"

Anyway, since I think you're actually serious about this, I'm just going to stop.

It's a sidearm broski, it outperforms it's equivalent in the light weapon category. .

How can any of that make sense to you

people shoot the ground as fast as they can and it's 2 PG yet there are 5 levels of fitting optimization

It could use a ROF and/or Reload time change so that people have to be more carefull with their shots instead of spamming R1, and it definitely needs higher fitting requirements, but any changes to splash or damage would render it worthless. You need proof? STD version

Amarr, everything you know is a lie.

And you're changes would make it the worst side arm bare none, it might even beat out the Plasma Cannon for the "most useless weapon in the game" award.

An SMG out performs ARs when against armor, A Scrambler pistol out preforms the AR and SCR if you're good at headshots, nova knives have no equivalent, but they're not far off from shotguns, and the Flaylock out performs MDs in CQC.

It's a side arm? Gee, thanks I would have never figured that out, but being a side arm doesn't mean that a light weapon should outclass it in every way possible, and it only out classes most light weapons ATM because they've all been nerfed to ****, except for the good ol' AR

No it wouldnt, it would just be less amazing.
.

1.5m would be "less amazing", 1m is garbage, I stand by that.

No one complains about the STD or ADV versions, because only the pro version is "too good", and that's because of it's splash range.

Advanced maybe, but STD? I'd rather use Nova Knives, that would render it completely useless, why even have splash damage?

I am very sick and tired of people wanting to nerf the Flaylock. Why? Because I don't want it to end up on the useless weapons pile. A pile consisting of the MD, LR and Plasma Cannon.

I have said many a times that the MD < the Flaylock. That does not mean that the Flaylock needs to be nerfed. It means the MD needs to be buffed.

Why was every weapon besides the AR severely nerfed in Uprising? Better yet, why do people want to KEEP nerfing them? Honestly it leaves me in disarray. At the end of the day, we should buff up all the weapons. Not nerf them, not even the AR.

YOU DON'T EVEN PLAAAAAAY!!!!

Advanced maybe, but STD? I'd rather use Nova Knives, that would render it completely useless, why even have splash damage?

GliMPSE X's proposed fix is reasonable. Clearly you're a flaylock user who doesn't want his crutch removed.

Simple, AR users don't like any weapons that can fight back. Is a weapon with a specialized role better than the AR while doing it's intended role? if so then it must be OP.

HMGs could destroy an AR user in CQC? My god, how could CCP have ever allowed this? ARs should be the best at CQC - AR/assault user thought process.

Also, they QQ the hardest.

Inb4 CCP claims it has something to do with "numbers" and not QQ, we all know the AR is the most popular gun in the game, the numbers would have had that thing nerfed long ago

I effin hate the AR and In being forced to use it until the Rail Rifle comes out.... its such a ****** gun

Damn, who forces you to use AR? That sux. I couldn't imagine not having a choice of weapons.

I am very sick and tired of people wanting to nerf the Flaylock. Why? Because I don't want it to end up on the useless weapons pile. A pile consisting of the MD, LR and Plasma Cannon.

I am very sick and tired of people wanting to nerf the Flaylock. Why? Because I don't want it to end up on the useless weapons pile. A pile consisting of the MD, LR and Plasma Cannon.

I have said many a times that the MD < the Flaylock. That does not mean that the Flaylock needs to be nerfed. It means the MD needs to be buffed.

Why was every weapon besides the AR severely nerfed in Uprising? Better yet, why do people want to KEEP nerfing them? Honestly it leaves me in disarray. At the end of the day, we should buff up all the weapons. Not nerf them, not even the AR.

Some people will never be satisfied until everyone else is pillow fighting, and they have the only Flaylock.

I've never seen a logi with it, who's using them as primaries?

Noobs don't count, it being a noob tube was a design choice.

AR>>> Flaylock, unless you can't aim the AR of course
Hell, in hands of a skilled player Scrambler pistol >> Flaylock.

Edit: In case you're questioniing why a game designer would ever include noob tubes in their game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Yeah because a sidearm being used as a primary is not wrong, and especially when it has the lowest fitting requirements of all the sidearms...

It is pretty obvious that the Flaylock is OP. This weapon is in a similar situation as the TAC AR was a few weeks back. You can be sick and tired all day but the fact of the matter is that the Flaylock needs a nerf. Sooner than later.

AR>>> Flaylock, unless you can't aim the AR of course

Firstly, the AR did take a hit in chromosome. In range, stability and overall dispersion. Furthermore, CCP decided to add in random spread making gun fights even more frustrating. Lastly, the aiming mechanics of this build has consistently made it harder for many weapons, this includes the AR.


Bottom line, is that the flayock is being used as primary when it designated as secondary. That is a big no no no

*All stats are from prototype level*
*Ranges found here*

[Comparison]
Flaylock pistol
Damage per shot: direct 239.8 / splash 214.5
Damage per second (DPS): EDIT - 3 shots fired in about 2 seconds(used stopwatch), direct 359.7 / splash 321.75
Damage per mag: direct 719.4 / splash 643.5
Range: 60 m? (only the 'Splashbone' was checked)

Scrambler pistol
Damage per shot: 88
DPS: 733.33 (and that's not even with the crazy awesome headshot multiplier)
Damage per mag: (+5 shots per magazine size skill bonus factored) 968
Range: around 61 m

SMG
Damage per shot: 25.3
DPS: 421.66
Damage per mag: 2024
Range: 44 m

[Conclusion]
The prototype flaylock pistol's DPS pales in comparison by hundreds of points, even with direct damage. The damage per magazine is also underwhelming, meaning it can kill less people with just one magazine in comparison to the other sidearms. What the flaylock pistol gets is splash (2.5 meters with maxed out operation skill), which makes it much easier to damage targets since just landing hits close to them does the job; this advantage however is in exchange for DPS.

Basically the flaylock is more likely to do damage because of splash, but has much lower damage per second as a tradeoff. Seems fair to me. I really hope it isn't nerfed in 1.2 because I think its pretty balanced.

A modest reduction in splash damage might be needed if there really are problems.

/me activates flame shield.

*EDIT: My initial fire rate and DPS for flaylock was off, corrected it. Still much lower DPS than other sidearms, making splash damage and radius fair.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90366&find=unread
Forgot to link the thread

Yeah because a sidearm being used as a primary is not wrong, and especially when it has the lowest fitting requirements of all the sidearms...

it isn't that the flaylock needs to be nerfed its just that most of you people who complain haven't invested any sp into the dropsuit core skills for armor and shield tanking. and there are cases where i lost to a AR close range using my hmg

In a game where heavies and scouts have a hard life, we here at CCP have decided to ease the strain by adding in the Core Flaylock Pistol. With this weapon on the battlefield, you'll find drop uplinks to be more appealing than ever before! In anticipation of this, we've gone ahead and made the new LIGHT HEAVY!!! With the Commandon't, you too can respawn in style on your very OWN uplink!!!

Act now, DIE TODAY!!

Dude I used the SMG as a primary all through chromosome as a scout and did very well. I don't see the SMG getting nerfed? Infact, I still use the SMG as a primary with my Minmatar character.

Look here is the deal:

SMG = 3 kills/mag
Scrambler pistol = 2 kills/mag
Nova knifs = 1 kill/swipe
Flaylock = 1 kill/mag

The flaylock is actually the most underpowered sidearm there is as it is. The only thing that really makes it good is that you can use a primary/light weapon to drop somebody's shields and the quickly switch to the flaylock to ceil the deal, but this is no diferent than switching to an SMG. No different at all. with no shields I can just as easily put someone down with an proto SMG as I can with a proto flaylock. I think that the only real reason people are QQing about the flaylock is the psychological effect of having all of your armor HP disappear instantaneously (with the flaylock) instead of in one third of a second (with the SMG).

If anything at all, the only thing that I can see changing about the flaylock would be the splash radius. But only VERY slight. I would actually increase the std variant to about 1.2m. I think that the adv variant is good where it is at. And the proto variant at 1.8m.

There is no psychological effect... It has rendered two other weapons irrelevant wastes of sp as it outperforms them so much.
How can you put someone down more easily with an smg than with the flaylock when with the latter you're shooting at their feet, at the ground?

There is a reason so few people are speccd into smgs vs flaylocks
I think I can even recall the op of this thread bemoaning how smgs were inferior to breach variant scramblers
Yet now all the sidearm are viable, now the smgs are 'mini ARS'

The flaylock = 1 kill a mag? That's a lie and you know it, man.
What does the magazine difference matter in anycase when it's such a short reload?

You're always gonna see more smgs on the field, Miltia through toxin because they are cheap/bpos with no investment. compare the amount of ishukones you see vs core flaylocks.

It matters a lot if you're aiming at the ground. This is a FPS the esstential means of interaction with your opponents in an FPS is aiming which is complicated by strafing and etc. When you can bypass all this by leaping at the enemy and shooting at the ground... Why wouldn't that matter?

You were the one who brought up magazines. My point was that kill per magazine is an arbitray means of judging when the weapon has a short reload, and also that in anycase you were shitposting super hard since the amount of kills you can get with the flaylock isn't determined by its clipsize but the amount of people you are engaging who can all fall within the radius of it's shots.


"the flaylock is actually the most underpowered sidearm there is" -- son of a gun 2013

I've been OHK'd by the flaylock many times and I'm running an advanced caldari logi with 2 complex shield extenders & 1 basic armor plate; I also have both my armor & shield skills maxed. Not even the Balac's or Krin's can do that.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90366&find=unread
Forgot to link the thread

There is a reason so few people are speccd into smgs vs flaylocks

The flaylock = 1 kill a mag? That's a lie and you know it, man.

Scrambler pistol better than flaylock? haha

Inb4 CCP claims it has something to do with "numbers" and not QQ, we all know the AR is the most popular gun in the game, the numbers would have had that thing nerfed long ago

If you don't think it's true, then you must be a noob AND THEREFORE SHOULD BE USING THE FLAYLOCK, don't bite the hand that feeds you

396 headshot damage vs 250 direct hit damage, the winner is obvious... if you can aim

Correct me if I'm wrong sloth but I believe there have been a good number of threads made by players that actually breakdown all of the numbers for the weapons. CCP's method of "nerfing due to numbers" is malarkey. I agree with you 100% and CCP needs to learn how these "supposed numbers" have a drastic impact on the game. If they keep nerfing and buffing things then they better be handing out some nice fat respec's as well.


- Wee Baby

You are full of **** https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=912311#post912311

A Proto Flaylock requires 2 shots to take out an armor tanker with militia stats, there's no way in hell it would ever 1-shot a shield tanker, it's impossible.

Scouts maybe, but medium suits and up? Nope, quit making things up.

They nerf and buff according to their statistical data. Stuff like how many people get killed by it.

The **** I am. You're the one that's full of ****. **** you for calling me a liar.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90366&find=unread
Forgot to link the thread

You're always gonna see more smgs on the field, Miltia through toxin because they are cheap/bpos with no investment. compare the amount of ishukones you see vs core flaylocks.

It matters a lot if you're aiming at the ground. This is a FPS the esstential means of interaction with your opponents in an FPS is aiming which is complicated by strafing and etc. When you can bypass all this by leaping at the enemy and shooting at the ground... Why wouldn't that matter?

You were the one who brought up magazines. My point was that kill per magazine is an arbitray means of judging when the weapon has a short reload, and also that in anycase you were shitposting super hard since the amount of kills you can get with the flaylock isn't determined by its clipsize but the amount of people you are engaging who can all fall within the radius of it's shots.


"the flaylock is actually the most underpowered sidearm there is" -- son of a gun 2013

I have said many a times that the MD < the Flaylock. That does not mean that the Flaylock needs to be nerfed. It means the MD needs to be buffed.

Ohh man...talk to 'em lol

We are playing a first-person-explosives-shooter. This is a shooter where there is an explosive for a primary and secondary slot plus two types of locus grenades. And at the same time, there isn't a skill or module for explosive resistance.

Why should a weapon get buffed where you just aim at the ground to kill people? I don't know man....when a guy launches three grenades at my feet, unsuccessfully, and then launches 3 flaylock pistols right after.....then that should tell you something. He didn't even think about using a weapon, in which he had to aim with. All of these cheesy ways to kill people and dusters wonder why people are pissed off with the game and walking away.

Why was every weapon besides the AR severely nerfed in Uprising? Better yet, why do people want to KEEP nerfing them? Honestly it leaves me in disarray. At the end of the day, we should buff up all the weapons. Not nerf them, not even the AR.

There is nothing wrong with the mass driver. People just use the standard one and expect to be as good with the AR with no practice. I've had someone flux, then two hit my 800 armor with an Advanced mass driver.

Direct hits are key.

All of these cheesy ways to kill people and dusters wonder why people are pissed off with the game and walking away.

the game is now open to gungamers and casuals,
they percieve them as revenue,
they must balance dust accordingly.

flaylock as primary is usually for goofy joke builds that don't end up being particularly effective unless you're really good.

i just put it as a sidearm with my scram rifle. works great

Flaylock killed Dust?

Is that a serious question?

they're walking away because
1) its grindy and boring
2) nothing really happens with respect to eve integration, just grindy battles back to back
3) its a lot to swallow all at once and the tutorial isnt particularly good
4) menus aren't constructed very well so people get confused (feeds back into 3 )
5) gunplay feels wrong, not tight enough
6) getting stomped by protofags

i have never heard one complaint from any review about weapon balancing. ever.

What?!? People are definitely walking away because of weapon balancing.

21-1 in my second game using Core Flaylocks and militia gear.

did you like
actually
for real
actually read ANY of the reviews for dust? or ANY of the comments posted under those reviews?
nobody mentions weapon balancing like ever.
i defy you to find a review which even mentions unbalanced weapons.

it's not a big problem, it's not what is driving people away. it shouldn't be given dev priority.
however the people whose "only job" is weapon balancing should stick with that, since they wouldn't be helpful working on other things

I think I've been killed once with a Flaylock....

Flalock needs a 7 meter range buff and at least a 25% damage boost, it's way too underpowered

Than get out the MCC.

It is stupid OP. Corps are starting to use nothing else. It's the noob tube. They just run around dual wielding with splash dmg and rinse and repeat. Especially in PC it's not even about winning a match it's about rinsing and repeating Flay lock blasts till you can chip enemy out. It's stupid ******** perhaps take away splash period for Flaylocks.

Listen. People are bringing more Core Flaylocks to PC fights than players. CCP, you need to fix it right away. I know the Howlcage is probably making you some good money right now, but the PG cost is so obviously broken that we are losing faith in your ability to balance the game(Those of us that still even care after 6 months of laser rifle abuse). You need to fix the PG cost on core flaylock right now. It would be a server side fix, you could do it TODAY.

CCP is catering to the high skilled playerbase by adding in precision, skill based weapons such as Flaylock Pistols and Fused Locus Grenades. In an effort to draw in the more serious, semi professional crowd to push DUST as a legitimate, competitive FPS, CCP has decided that these changes will go a long way in promoting diverse, skill based gameplay.

Thank God.

CCP is catering to the high skilled playerbase by adding in precision, skill based weapons such as Flaylock Pistols and Fused Locus Grenades. In an effort to draw in the more serious, semi professional crowd to push DUST as a legitimate, competitive FPS, CCP has decided that these changes will go a long way in promoting diverse, skill based gameplay.

Thank God.